Yes, you can always skip reading any post you dont like, why bother?

This post has been edited by guy3288: Oct 16 2016, 12:56 PM

Dudeeeee thanks for sharing the link

xuzen

Actuarial nia, finance just like touching water surface only, basic exposure

Learning via studies vs actual implementation in practice is different

But I believe you need some data to calculate, like downside volatility to calculate Sortino ratio.

If using excel only, you also need a lot of past data and relevant market benchmark to calculate jensen alpha ratio.

Not sure about Modigliani ratio, but, speaking about sharpe ratio and risk return ratio, if you see FSM, CMF has the highest risk return ratio, about 30 times as much as KGF Evergreen fund.

OK, if you say we compare the metrics within the same class, that would be somehow fair comparison. However, if across different asset classes, how do those metrics bring meaningful interpretation and comparison?

Like comparing Ponzi 2.0 and AIF, how does the metrics explained that AIF is better in risk adjusted return than ponzi 2.0 if they are different classes?

Or do you rely morningstar for it?

As you know, during studies, learning the above ratio are by giving ideal values and example, hard to comprehend when comes to personal exposure in investment world, just graduated without much experience, kindly guide and forgive me if I asked something stupid

No need to entertain those kids that lack of matured mind la, let him learn frm the his/her own life experience. When getting elder and he will eventually understd. U can always ignore them.

ppl choose fd or ut must be have their own reason/believe, if no reason, then just for fun also can be a valid reason. U believe and u willing to learn then u proceed , if not then just walk away. Dont sai hei... some of ppl around me recently withdraw their fd after they knew about fsm. UT is another level of game. Those ppl who believe in time value of money, compunded interest effect , high risk high return only willing to put more effort in ut investment.

This post has been edited by wayne84: Oct 16 2016, 10:00 PM

New week reminder - please keep discussions here about UTs.

Thank you.

guys,

sorry to ask, is it safe to buy UT at Fundsupermart?

they are online distributor?

Didn't I just replied u with a quote and a link at that other thread?

Anyway, newbie benefit...

This is on Post #1, the "safeguards" we have when we invest thru FSM:
I.e. if anything goes wrong, u have the following avenues:
- Securities Commission
- FiMM
- Bank Negara

AIYH


That is where experience comes in lor! Real world data are never nice and predictable. If it is such, all the finance company would hire robot and you will be out of job even before you graduate. As you participate in the investment world, your mind is able to sieve out the noises more carefully and make better decision.


Yup! Sortino needs downside volatility. If you have the set of data for for standard deviation, you may use that same set and omit the above mean to get Semi-deviation.

Use what is available to you, if the data is not available then don't use.


Modigliani aka M2M ratio is a derivative of Sharpe ratio. And M2M-ratio can bring different classes into parity for comparison sake. Problem is that the parameters needed to compute M2M ratio are not readily available to lay investors. Perhaps if you are working for investment bank or asset management company or perhaps UTMC, you may have access to the data.


He he he.... that is the job best left to Algozen™. She can answer it better than I do

Xuzen

This post has been edited by xuzen: Oct 17 2016, 01:40 PM

So for beginner like me where only fsm and morningstar (afaik) are available, sharpe ratio/risk return ratio + jensen alpha are the only practical metrics I can use?

For M2, I thought if I can get the approximate Rf plus the Beta/std dev of the instrument and benchmark from morningstar, can calculate dy right? By simply sharpe ratio * std dev of benchmark + rf?

Unless you are referring to the generalized version

When you always mention Algozen™, is this your KFC recipe from your company or your own work?

Let say I want to be anal about it
If I want to try to analyze between Ponzi 2.0 and AIF, do I benchmark them against the same index?

This post has been edited by AIYH: Oct 17 2016, 02:57 PM

AIYH

Only this is widely available for lay-person. J-alpha ratio, you sendiri kena kira, if you can get the fund beta available w.r.t. its benchmark.


M2M formula bukan macam ni wor. Let me go back to my old notes and recheck the formula. IIRC the above macam tak betul aje!


My own formula.


No, I don't use their benchmark. For me, I choose AIF because risk / return for AIF is better than Ponzi 2.0. Next question you will ask, but AIF ROI is so low, how to carry makan right? Hence if you notice, my portfolio is made up of AIF which is stable and boring, but supplemented by a US fund (TA GTF) plus India. These are the Viagra booster. So, when one is constructing a portfolio, one needs to strategize. Algozen™ helps me in this department by finding the sweet-spot, the Goldilocks' point. The point where the risk and return are just optimized.

Xuzen

This post has been edited by xuzen: Oct 17 2016, 04:17 PM

Xuzen hope you don't mind me asking, are you holding KGF and e.smallcap or did you sell them for india?

I would like to construct a portfolio for someone but that someone is kind of not a risk taker. What's your recommendation? 60FI:40:Eq/ 70FI/30Eq?

If anyone want to give some input also I am all ears.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Oct 17 2016, 04:23 PM

100% ASX FP UTF Pasti Menang™ fund

W1NN4R 4EV4!

Xuzen

This post has been edited by xuzen: Oct 17 2016, 04:43 PM

Er, being serious here. Please don't bash me. Still learning.

xuzen may sound like trolling but I don't think he is.

- someone who is not a risk taker

Why risk having below par gain or even having losses? ASX FP, guaranteed to get close to EPF returns.

I just browsed through a book entitled "The Little Book of Market Myths" by Ken Fisher.

Ken says,

"IF SOMEONE OFFERED YOU a “capital preservation and growth” strategy, would you take it? Sounds pretty good. Who doesn’t want all the benefit of equity-like upside growth with downside capital protection? Both at the same darn time!

And who doesn’t want to eat rib-eyes and ice cream sundaes every night but never gain weight?

The idea you can pursue capital preservation and growth at the same time as a unified goal is no different than the notion of a low-cal, fat-free, guilt-free rib-eye-and-sundae dinner. It’s a fairytale."


What say you?

Sale pitch talks lar

If market good...your investment really profitable, the salesguy will claim credit
If market bad...your investment made a loss, the salesguy will say, "look, our fund manager already did their work (capital preservation), else your losses would be even more! In the search for growth, we HAD TO take some risks, too bad it didn't turn out the way we had hoped..."

that is right... some forummers that had IRR of <5% after many years in UTs investment.....guess their friends would them that they should be better off putting in ASX FP funds...

Unless, one is a risk taker that want big gain big risk....
or he may end up small gain big risk..

individual preference -mah....
for some, maybe after some wealth successes.. they wanted some self satisfaction by being able to challenge their UTs selections and make some small bet on them instead of the "boring" ASX-FP...

after all,....it is individual risk appetite preferences....

just remember historical performance may not be an indicator of possible similar future performance...
buy according to one acceptable risks appetite.....look at the NAVs swings....(based on 3 yrs risk volatility ratio)

remember some where last year,...there was a bull run on CHINA funds...some investors said they are risk takers, they can go heavy on China......hope they are still now...

One can think they can accept that risk level, but there will come a time to the test to determine one own understanding of risk level...would one like that,....or just go for some thing more "secure" like ASX -FP?

invest with the money one does not need to touch for a few years and buy funds that one can sleep peacefully even the NAVs dropped by 15%......but if after 20~25%...panic-lah... because it will need to moves about 30% upward to break even...

sifu sifu sekalian, any recommendations on which fund should i jump in now if i expect the USD to continue rising after the US elections and expected interest rate hike?

RHB USD HIGH YIELD BOND FUND - USD (invest in US)

Is this a good option?

or should i look for funds investing in Asia, but in usd like this ?

UNITED ASIAN HIGH YIELD FUND - USD (invest in Asia ex japan, high investment needed though, 45k)

hhmmmmm

FSM recently got an article about this....
How you can benefit from a weakening ringgit? [7 Oct 2016]
https://www.fundsupermart.com.my/main/resea...-Oct-2016--7560

thank you , will read through