yes, better buy RHB IBF....
but if you think USD will rise again due to FED RATE...then BUY RHB ATR fund....

This post has been edited by MUM: Oct 15 2016, 12:07 AM

Yet another auntie advice, learn the basics of unit trust. Don't just look at returns. Volatility is important. Underlying assets is important. Market outlook shd not be ignored. It's not as simple as comparing returns to FD n ASx returns

Now what I will do is I will give you the answer. But the reason you need to figure out by reading up past discussions about ATR n RHB Islamic bond

Bad idea to buy ATR if you want stable returns. ATR is anything but consistent. It's consistent with USD:RM forex rates

RHB Islamic bonds may not be able to return 7% consistently as well. It has some bond default in the past n is seem as more risky bond fund than say asnita and EI bonds or PM bond funds. But those bond funds don't give u 7% in a normal year. This year is not a normal year for MY bond

It will rise. The question is this year or next year?

I read the discussion already. That's all I need as in the long term RM will lose to USD (auntie kangaroo + unker dreamer words + you know ) All I need is something which will outperform RHB IBF on a yearly basis.

That's the reason I don't want to get another Malaysian fund (already holding KGF and Eastspring Smallcap). But if no bond fund can match or exceed RHB IBF yearly, maybe I will just stick with RHB IBF. But still thinking.

Already few years giving 7.x%. That's pretty consistent.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Oct 15 2016, 12:17 AM

I think we should stop the habit of comparing returns from UTs to FD returns.

only thing good about FD is that is has fixed returns upon investing.

cons of fd is that your
-money is locked and returns will be lost if upliftment is done before maturity
-rates are based on OPR.

unit trusts.

pros
-ability to choose a myriad of funds based on their geographical regions and volatility.
-ability to purchase funds anytime anywhere and sell anytime you like
-returns are based on many factors like economic booms, currency exchange and etc.

cons
returns are never sure.
risk of losing your investments.
service charge (if you want to nick pick)
annual charge.


so can we stop mentioning fd rates here? if you want stability go for fds. you want to have full control of how your money is invested go for UTs.

Its like comparing a small country car to a ferrari. they both ain't the same. Regards.

the end.

This post has been edited by Avangelice: Oct 15 2016, 12:35 AM

I think it's wise to compare against FD. Why? If after 3 years a fund give you board rates FD rates, it's better to just chuck the fund away and give your money to the bank. For what you pay service charge and end up with FD rates. It's very illogical.

ayy, my thoughts on FI:

-Local (and regional) bond could see some selloff due to Fed rate hike possibility end of this year. However the outflow due to rate hike could increase attractiveness of local bond since outflow is short term (our yield still attractive hence we might see inflow again after that).
-Could be OPR cut too next year. But they might cut SRR instead of OPR if needed, so I'm cautious on this
-RHB IBF's 1% redemption rate is a massive turnoff, unless you hold long term. I hold substantial amount in that fund and feel handcuffed. If I want to park money somewhere, I use Anita Mui
-If you can tolerate higher risk, maybe opt for High Yield (junk) bond funds.. though Im not sure if FSM got one

I'm expecting lower returns for local bonds next year.. this year bonds did quite well due to
1) inclusion into JP Morgan index
2) OPR cut
3) General global hunt for yield

One could also argue that
1) Sukuk in high demand
2) EPF Simpanan Syariah effect (might invest more in Sukuk)

So do what you want Feel free to disagree

This post has been edited by _azam13: Oct 15 2016, 01:04 AM

Not for me as I have no problem in holding the money for > 1 year.
Anita Mui return is too low for my liking.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Oct 15 2016, 12:56 AM

Sure, why not. Compare the Sharpe ratio though

sorry double post

This post has been edited by _azam13: Oct 15 2016, 01:04 AM

do realize you are also sacrificing the ability to take the money anytime and parking these funds in your bank accounts for the bank to earn money from yours.

Like I said, I have no problem parking my money >1 year. Before ASX FP, my money 100% of them are in FDs for ~3 years. After finding out about ASX FP, I transferred my money into ASX FP. already coming close to 2nd year holding money in there. All this while I never performed any withdrawal.

Even this year when I had to access RM3k for emergency purpose, I didn't even withdraw from there. So again, locking up the money for years is perfectly fine with me. That 1% exit fees doesn't bother me if I were to choose RHB IBF because I know I can lock my money > 1 year as I have > enough emergency cash reserves.

So for me, the bond fund must be able to generate income when equities fail (got an inspiration from dasecret earlier post that mentioned when equities fail, RHB AIF came to the rescue)

This are my personal reasons:
Reason to go for RHB IBF
(i) consistent returns at ~7% p.a

Reason not to go for RHB IBF
(i) is only in malaysia which means I will be overweight in malaysia (KGF, eastspring, ASX FP)

Reason to for RHB ATRF
(i) Potential of higher returns than RHB IBF
(ii) Not focus on malaysia
(iii) In the long run, it will exceed RM as it was mentioned USD-RM forex affect it

Reason not to go for RHB ATRF
(i) Potential lesser returns than RHB IBF

I am perfectly fine with RHB ATRF risk or RHB IBF exit fees so those are not in my criteria.

Siapa main report some more?

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Oct 15 2016, 08:28 AM

not me brother. I always resort to a good argument or two instead of hiding in the shadows like a coward.

Hey folks, if I but UT from here is there any annual charges? Like 1 or 2℅

That kind of reasoning from a doctor is really .......

The very purpose people buy UT is to make more than FD returns.
Who buy UT and dont mind lower return than FD rate ,just for the fun of having "control" of money?
What for, having control and lose???

Ultimately if you dont make more than 6-7% returns, why so silly waste time and effort
when you can just sit back?

Just for the sake of being able to "play play" and "control" how you play that money?
then you better go genting.


To lament that early upliftment of FD will cause you to lose return WITHOUT knowing
that urgent sell of UT is even worse, just show how much you can think.
Doing the same for UT,not only you may lose returns, you may even lose your capital !


And the point on OPR movements as a con for FD is again an unthinking blabber.
Talking about unpredictability, UT is many times worse than FD if you just pause and think first!!

I have FD paying me 4.7% right till 2018.
So tell me how can your OPR con factor affect me till then?

Your reasoning is far inferior to that of Ram, mind you, he is only a student!

And what kind of rubbish is that to say FD is small car and UT is ferrari?
Especially when your ferrari can produce only 3-4%
and my small car gives me fixed 4.7% return.
Dont just keep thinking about your car, for once look into the mirror to see that driver.

if you buy ANY UTs either from here (FSM MY) or from any other fund houses, ...you will still be charged the ANNUAL mgmt. fees + a few other fees......sometime > 2% also....

read this for example to get the ideal....
http://www.moneysense.gov.sg/Understanding...rusts.aspx#What are the fees and charges? What is the Total Expense Ratio (TER)?

but do you need to pay it up annually? nope...you don't feel it...b'cos it is already reflected in the daily NAVs
not like Sales charges / redemption fees where the money will be deducted from your invested / available value directly

found this closed lyn thread
FD vs Unit trust
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/2255397/all

some postings and comments are still applicable and worth consideration...
(specially the last one before that thread was closed)

This post has been edited by T231H: Oct 15 2016, 09:42 AM

If you can lock the money for more than a year, why do you stick with bond funds instead of equity funds?

This post has been edited by AIYH: Oct 15 2016, 09:52 AM

see post# 1632...3rd paragraph....for his reason..

I know, but since he is also worried about overweighting in Malaysia exposure and foreign bond fund might not be stable due to forex, then bond fund would not be suitable for him at the current stage since none of the alternative fufill his expectation?

pfft. here we go again. If you are so sure about your FD returns why don't you stick to the pinned FD thread. why the fuck are you here then if you are so adamant about its returns? btw I do not take kindly to people questioning my intelligence just because you do not agree on my beliefs.

Anyways I was discussing the topic with Ramjade. if you got nothing to chip in and insulting me, just stfu and go play your fds