Didn't quite understand the "H" and "C"... but anyway sounds like I just gotta kwai kwai pay SC to buy select bond lor.... even with SC the IRR is a respectable 8+%, still worth it la

Lastly, I too started a portfolio in Oct 2015. It's doing ok, ROI 5.x% and I'm very glad that I took the RSP route instead of lumpsum. Otherwise it may still be in the red

Hats off to you lor... Made good money. I'm by the book and no where close
Anyway, I think something wrong with your RHB GEYF ROI. The fund has not made so well in the past 3 years and your IRR and ROI also don't correspond
Sorry.... bean counter punya obsession

Lol ... But what do I know right? Excel pun tak erti...

Hahahahah

IMO,
Chance of winning lottery is one in thousands.
Genting ppl say 10 times gamble lose 9 times.
FD interest barely cover inflation.
Shares only have bullets to buy limited counters. Riskier than UT.

Not urgent. I need the money for retirement. Still have 10 more years.

So, isn't UT is the best choice ?

3. FD barely covers inflation?
IMHO, it depends on one's personal inflation - ignore the consensus.
If i have $1M and put in FD, get 4%pa ie $40K pa, spend only $25K pa and reinvest the $15K
When will concensus inflation kill me ar?

Before going into the details, what was summarised in the spreadsheet, "Entrance value" and his one-time lumpsum value of 100k is already out of tally.

A one-time investment does not need the excel function XIRR to calculate the IRR. The simple CAGR formula could do the job. Based on the current values of his 9 funds, they totaled to about 118.46k or an ROI of 18.46% or IRR (CAGR) of 6.1%.

Haha, correct wor the GEYF one, I supposed I don't trade my funds so I won't see such numbers other than for CMF. basically the ROI is meaningless since the base is supposed to be much higher but you sold it

Rubbish in rubbish out lor. I noticed something, your data for switch sell you directly key into the columns with formula. You are supposed to key in column F following the type of transactions
[attachmentid=7502995]

OCD is like that 

As a responsible forumer I must however highlight that even guy3288 seems to think luck is on his side when he does it, and our precious metal guy also did not encourage people to follow his method although he has an IRR of 70+%
I like this 2 methods particularly, it's easier for a haphazard person like me. Methododical is not quite for me.

Injecting new capital...
injected at wrong time & wrong place...could make the current IRR worst.
Timing the corrections....   Are you feeling lucky! Punk 

Tried doing some "Creative Accounting"....simulation..

"IF" Irr values can be "played" by that,.....then frequent traders "may" have a better performing IRR.

That guy from ASx FP threads will .... (i told you so)

I'm in the mood for more analogies and stubborn people-shooting

If this doesn't make u understand, u are hopeless. Really.

Someone bought Maybank shares at RM8.00 somewhere mid-2010.
When Maybank go up to RM9.00 somewhere 2011, his broker tell him he can sell his Maybank shares at RM8.00 each. He asked no further questions.
When Maybank went up to RM10.50 somewhere 2013, his broker still tell him he can sell his Maybank shares at RM8.00 each. He asked no further questions.
Now Maybank is trading at RM7.69. For some reasons he decided to sell now. His broker tell him, "Mr Ram! Lucky for u, u had me as your broker, u still can get back RM8.00 for each Maybank shares u hold!"

"Wow, thank you Mr Con! I've been receiving dividends every year without fail and now I can sell back my shares at cost. You really are a super broker! I love u kuat-kuat!"


Global Emerging Markets (GEMs) comparable to Developed Markets? It's okay for investments in GEMs to be compared to investments in global tech stocks?

Look, IRR is just an 'effective rate'.
"IF" Irr values can be "played" by that,.....then frequent traders "may" have a better performing IRR."

No, IRR cannot be "played" like that, As explained, it is only an "effective rate".

it is nothing legally wrong ...just that morally "not that" open market like"....unlike real open mkt UTs
also can refer to page@ 29 post# 575 about fairness........
also blue chips stock can see the mkt prices...

Take a look at the image below. There are on it six UTFs (sorry not ten) that are Malaysia centric balanced fund with 10 years consistent CAGR of above 10% per annum. The UTF's corresponding volatility aka Std-Dev is on the far right column. The Std-Dev ranges from high 11.22% (RHB Income & Growth Focus UTF) to the lower Affin-Hwang Select Balanced Fund (4.68%).

If I were to participate in the listed UTF below, guess which one would I participate in? Why bother with the median? In reality are you going to participate in all the balanced fund and expect to get the median?

A savvy investor would want to ride on the winning horse, not on all the horses. Do not be overly obsessed with Pokémon Go and its tag line: "Gotta catch em all".

Riversand, There will not be any Std-Dev for ASX FP UTF or if there is, they are negligible compared to normal UTF as ASX FP UTF's NAV remained fixed.



From your attached image, the balance funds shown "red colors" for short term 3-9 months period, although its long-term average return is 10% p.a. over 10 years. Despite the higher return for balance funds in LONG Run, perhaps below are the logics of why people still favors ASX are because:

1) No service charge compared to UT with 0,57% to 2% SC. ASX dividend also tax exempted.

2) Liquidity is assured. Some treat ASX as high dividend Saving account, you can withdraw immediately from few thousands of agents banks, compared to UT withdrawal of T+3 or T+5, some funds impose exit fees if resell within a year. So ASX is good for both short / long term investment.

3) when you apply loan, banks take 100% of ASx balance as personal net worth (compared to 50% to 70% for UT), banks also take in ASX's annual dividend 100%, and include it in individuals' annual income, as the 6.x% dividend is consistent.

Having said that there are some drawbacks of ASx, as what you mentioned, lack of transparency on reserve and no excitement/ boring.

Like this sure win liao lor!



But but but once sell.... want to enter again manyak susah wor. Have to drive to many bank branches to hunt for available units. Just like playing Pokemon Go. "Gotta catch em all!"

Xuzen

but when u invest in a stock you are entitled to its MARKET VALUE which usually is higher than its NAV. With FP ASx u don't. That's different.

Actually, xuzen, I would like to correct you on this. People with priority banking, just drop book at counter whenever want to topup. Collect the book at the end of the day. Done. Targeted amount achieved. Once a month 5 figure also no problem. Let's not talk about priority banking (not everyone have one). Even some banks let you drop book at the counter IF you are a regular face and not a PB (personal exp - which I never use)

And as cheahcw2003 said, high liquidity. Want to withdraw 6/7 figure one shot > SA also no problem. On the spot. So is actually a perfect parking spot especially for PB customers + bumi as intended target to topup again is easily achievable. *see reasons on top*

But this is OT. (now waiting to kena report for stating the truth)

guy3288
Try getting the quoting right, especially when you quoting numerous people.

Genneva gold scheme as with most other MLMs was legally and morally wrong, and had investors kept pouring in without slowing down, the scheme would have kept running profitably. U don't go join?

NOT FAIR IS NOT FAIR. I believe in supporting fair products and companies, and may even pay more for their products. I want to do my part in making the world a better place.

How can I not join in ASx related discussion 
Well, I'm just re-iterating what I said in the past

This is very much a 'national interest' product; from many angles, so yes, chances are it will remain status quo for a while.
If you look at the total NAV of the FP funds, it's >10% of KLSE market cap... hence the national interest
As for the rakyat, better some savings at a higher return than nothing right....? world bank issued a report on how many Malaysians have no savings, but BNM rebutted that it has not taken ASB into consideration. That's how important ASB is to the nation

It is however a very personal choice, I don't think we can force people to change their mindset and take out their 6 digits savings from the FP funds that they have not touched over the last 20 years. All we can do is ride on the stability the institution investors provided and gain from it 

This thread is moving fast recently, I'm playing catch-up. Trade requires good timing, got it wrong, result would be worse than buy and hold or DCA.

I read a finance book recently. It talks about 3 different pockets for financial security.

1st Pocket : Saving pocket.
2nd Pocket : Investment pocket.
3rd Pocket  : Trading pocket.

1st pocket would be fire proof and earthquake proof. I assume this means FD or its equivalent. Once this is filled, then we have the 2nd pocket. This is meant for long term investment like unit trusts in FSM.

Then we have the 3rd pocket. This would be the gambling portfolio or where you allocate a certain amount of money for your "best bet". I assume this is the sector fund, gold fund, etc. I assume this would involve short term investment and active trading.

I think, it is being rather impractical to just talk (and nothing more than just empty talk) about the merits and cons of any particular investment vehicle as if when it is not suitable for one ownself, then it is not suitable for others.

No, I made a lost of around 8% in 9 mths of holding this fund (CIMB-GTF). I participated starting in Sep 2015 and completely exited the position by Jun 2016.

Xuzen

But but but must talk about it wan, or else, guy3288 will butthurt complain we only talk about winners and not the losers. We must average it lar, this lar, that lar...
Xuzen

Since we on the ASX FP topic, I just google it and check its ROI, and found that they are around 6.XX% never touching 7%. The Bumiputera only is slightly higher by 100 basis pts.

I took the liberty and checked out FSM list and found that there are 10 Balanced UTF that have above 10% CAGR.

Who's your daddy now!

Xuzen

I have been following this topic actually. 10 > 10% but how many < 7.XX? To compare apple with apple we should use the median or average isn't it?

I always believe in the same way we preach DIVERSIFICATION  for unit trust investment, unit trust by itself should be an asset class in a basket of investment. The basket of investment could contain EPF, endowment policy, property investment, stocks, PNB funds, etc.

Thanks! Yes, I know distribution is meaningless..

Very well said. This is not MU vs Liverpool or whatever. Both can co-exist and both can win.

Shit...please don't...again...

Please understand what is a mutual fund and what is INSIDE it.

Say, Fund ABC has Maybank, Public Bank and Hong Leong Bank...

So, if u pay out distribution...by some magic will of God, the 3 stocks will go up?
If u don't pay out distribution, Mr Market or God will punish the fund?

Might as well say,  if ASNB make 15% they pay you only 7%, happy?
If ASNB makes  10%, you get only 6.5% happy? 

Dump all UTs...sell all shares...let's all shift to this thing...

Wah boss..... later the newbies don't understand your sarcasm

Post la your IRR as comparison 

or wait 25 years - TIME in market ma, statistically correct heheh

This goes to show that Algozen™ is not equivalent to the Oracle of Delphi. Investing is a long term game and in long term game, you will definitely win some and lose some. Algozen™ only advises an investor to place his / her position at the most risk optimized spot in the investment efficient frontier. In lay-person speech, Algozen™ helps to win more than lose in terms of probability or in simpler English, Algozen™ makes you lucky!

Xuzen

we don't have a crystal ball to predict the movement 

Few questions


Sorry noob in excel 

Figured it out. 
Now it's all back to normal.
IRR is now -1.96
ROI is now -0,02

"smart" isn't quite the right word.

Cautious, balanced, risk-adversed, stability-seeking, want-to-avoid-heart-attack... etc, yes.

Smart, dumb...etc, no

All to do with personal investment objectives, risk-tolerance, investment time-frames... etc.

If you are looking at maximizing returns over the long term, the correlated coefficient should not be in your list of things to worry about.

correction. maximizing potential of returns would be making sure most of the funds aren't correlated. why buy the same funds when you should be investing in other funds.

while I agree with you that its more on minimising risk... its really something you should at least check once. read the market wizards book.. many legendary traders have expressed that they wish they had learnt how to manage risk.. while its true that trading and investing in UTs dont overlap much, its really to protect you from the downside you could have otherwise avoided. dont dismiss it altogether. i dont really bother myself too much with it though, just run a simple correlation then get done with it.

Yup. Target is min 10%. Following your strategy but won't sell.

BTW thanks for being so civil in this discussion. we need more of this and less drama.

cc guy3288

SCENARIO 1 : Asset allocation = diversification = negative correlation assets = no wild fluctuations = steady gains?

SCENARIO 2 : No asset allocation = market timing = positive correlation assets = possible wild fluctuations = big gain or big losses?

SCENARIO 3 : ???

"IF" when  market crash, you would also lose 10% more than your friend or not.
the answer is NO.

Then "IF" market booms, one would also not win 10% more than your friend -
the answer is YES/NO?

if one is having RM 20 000 in a fund
waiting for some lowering of NAV to top in RM 500
That is 2.5% of value of that fund.

if the NAV lowered to the desired value, this 2.5% (RM 500) is well spend
but the RM 20 000 is not well invested.....The losses of the RM 20 000 is much more than that "gain" from the saving of this RM 500

should have get the RM 20 000 out will be a much better choice ....

   

"IF" when  market crash, you would also lose 10% more than your friend or not.
the answer is NO.

Then "IF" market booms, one would also not win 10% more than your friend or not
the answer is YES/NO?

if one is having RM 20 000 in a fund
waiting for some lowering of NAV to top in RM 500
That is 2.5% of value of that fund.

if the NAV lowered to the desired value, this 2.5% (RM 500) is well spend
but the RM 20 000 is not well invested.....The losses of the RM 20 000 is much more than that "gain" from the saving of this RM 500

should have get the RM 20 000 out will be a much better choice ....

   

that is the universal truth that all men knew...
Time the market to get "Cheaper" Navs....
just wondering how to get the cheapest NAVs?

Guys,

guy3288 is spewing bull dung here. His understanding of UT is totally and utterly flawed.

Report me. I dare you.