Well the Autopot system is quite expensive to implement and doesnt make much economic sense for small players like us.

the Archimedes Screw is a very interesting read....

Para:

The Archimedes Screw is also not something difficult to build. And it can be built in a way that it is attached to either a 2T or 4T motorcycle engine, or a waterwhee powered by a flowing riverl.

But most people would prefer using a pump instead, since it is usually faster and less bulky.

Thanks for the suggestions guys.
I had did some research on the screw pumps before. The screw pump is good for large displacement of water, the problem is the it does not provide good "pump head" (raising the water to a height, creating pressure). Hence good for irrigating flat / undulating land.

I already have a pump in my farm, small 5 hp petrol driven pump. I find it quite expensive to run it for a long period. Had also experimented with sprinkle system, but these need to run on a long period and need labor intervention. Short of hands at the moment. When we were planting greens vegetables, we run the pump 1 1/2 hours in the morning and 1 1/2 hours in the evening daily (except when it rained). Had stopped planting green vegetables at the moment.

Am moving on to fruit trees. Hence am thinking about dripping system and how to make it low cost, mobile, less labor intensive. Am testing this system to help in transplanting of saplings. The first 2 weeks after transplanting is critical for many plants. My first experiment is on 6 papaya saplings. 3 was just transplant without any aid. 3 was transplanted with a shade of banana leaves. The banana leaves dried off after 3 days and were affecting the saplings. I took 3 soft drink bottles, punch a very small hole at the bottom and created a very simple drip system. I fill up the bottle every alternative day for a week. Now the papaya plant is growing on its own.

The 3 sapling without aids, dried off after the fifth day.

Am going back to my farm tomorrow and armed with about 200 seeds of Mas Solo papaya. Has to have this is place before transplanting. My search on the net, we can actually hang a drip bag ( a big version that they use in the hospital) to create a drip. Have a rough sketch in my mind, maybe use those 5 kg cooking oil bottle or whatever big bottle to create a drip. from my earlier experiment and search on the net, am quite sure this shall work. Now my problem is that to fill up say 150 bottles on alternative days is quite labor intensive.

And to create a permanent dripping system, is quite expensive (interior), no experience and am not ready (me). Alternatively I could assign a hand to water these saplings daily by running the pump.

If I could successfully develop this, I can use it during the first 2 weeks of transplanting and adapt it to feed liquid fertilizer. What do you guys think?

Mr Farmer:

You are right to say there's a limit to how high a traditional Archimedes screw can lift water. But with a little more imagination, you can still use Archimedes screws to lift water to very high levels (8-10 feet) into a central storage tank and create the necessary pressure for gravity feeding. Or am I the only one considering a tiered system of Archimedes screws for lifting water....? Mmm.... As I know it, a modern variant of the Archimedes screw, aka screw conveyors are commonly used in grain processing factories to lift grains like wheat and corn kernels up to silos about 10-15 feet high at least.

If you have a flowing river nearby, even better, can use the kinetic energy of the flowing river to power the whole thing, using an undershot water wheel. No need bicycle or motorcycle engine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_wheel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poncelet_wheel

In addition, the use of a Venturi pipe would help maintain stable pressure on the outflowing water from the water tank.

Actually, come to think of it, if you have a river with strong enough current, you could just build a water turbine. Not sure if you guys remember primary school science project involving construction of a dynamo, but the principle is pretty much the same. Generate your own electricity.

http://www.enotes.com/topic/Water_turbine

Just think of water turbines as an inverted wind turbine powered by water flow instead of wind.


Your idea is good, and in fact quite widely used also. As you've pointed out quite correctly, it is a chore to refill all those bottles every alternate day. I have a crazy idea, which involves the use of rain collection troughs, lots of stilts, and lots of floatation plugs. If you know how fuel gauges work in cars, then you might get what I'm thinking about. The main shortfall of this is that the troughs are only of certain lengths and strengths, so each plot has to be of a certain size only, and multiple water tanks are needed.

My partner and I are looking into venturing into the aquaculture industry. We have identified an 8 acre land that is currently farming red tilapia. We are planning to acquire the farm and take over the existing business. There are currently 8 ponds. 6 big pond which the owner says can rear anything from 20000 - 40000 tilapia and another 2 ponds that we can use to rear fingerlings.

I need to know how profitable this business is and whether its a good venture to get into. Both me and my partner will be managing the farm full time. The running cost of the farm currently is about RM 60k/ mth and 90% of that cost comes from feed (about 1000 bags/ mth). We are hoping to harvest at least 15 tons of fish each month.

My questions are:
1. Is tilapia prices stable? We have an agreement from the feed supplier that if we take the feed from them, they will buy our fish but I'm not too sure if the price is stable.
2. What are the risk when venturing into this business?
3. Is demand for tilapia now more than supply?

I would greatly appreciate any feedbacks from forummers here. Would also be interested to visit existing Tilapia farms out there.

Thanks in advance

Elmer:

Based on current trends, tilapia prices are stable, but gradually reducing, especially for frozen whole fish. Live fish gets better prices, but are niche markets. The best market are with processed fillets.

There are many risks involved with any kind of aquaculture business. Maybe you should have identified them ahead first. It is good that the feed supplier has guaranteed buyback. Some of the most common risks include:

(i) Disease outbreak - particular concern in high density earthen pond cultures
(ii) Policy risks - Eg. tilapia from China got barred from entering Europe due to antibiotic residues; same concern in Vietnam and Thailand
(iii) Market risk - Although prices are relatively stable, and demand is still comparatively high, there is a real risk of the market being flooded in the near future (<5 years). In such a case, producers with the lowest cost and highest quality will thrive

Demand now is still higher than supply, due to tilapia being a cheap fish compared to other white fish. The same can't be said in the next 5 years. Just look at what happened with salmon prices; it nearly halved after large scale aquaculture took place. But as wild fisheries begin to dwindle, this species will play a more significant role in the market place. A case in point: I went to inspect some markets to gauge the production and demand of cultured fish species a couple weeks back. Cultured siakap, pompano and catfish were piled prominently on the tables, but couldn't find red tilapia. When asked the wholesalers, they said "all sold out".

But why shouldn't it be completely sold out? With prices of marine fishes hitting the high double digits per kg, it is no surprise. I mean, even cultured siakap was being sold at about RM20 per kg wholesale. Catfish sells cheap (African catfish and pangasius sells for low single digits per kg), but their taste and texture really can't replace those of white fish like snapper, pomfret, or bream. Also, cultured catfish tend to be fatty, so less flesh is available per kg compared to lean fish like tilapia.

But really, Elmer, what kind of returns do you hope to get? 20% or more?

Hi Elmer,
Looking at your questions, I am wondering if you have any hands-on experience in running a fish farm (or such a big scale). Not trying to "pour cold water", but do consider an exit plan just in case things don't goes according to your plan. It's very easy to "buy into" a venture, but very difficult to exit, especially if it is not doing well.

Am sure you would have work out your budgeting and funding for your project, since you mentioned 60K/ mth = 720K/year. Your rolling capital, mean time to harvest, etc.

Also it might be interesting to verify the reasons for the sale of the farm.
Standard reasons are most probably getting old, retiring, sickness, no children wants to take over, migrating...blah, blah....

Personally, I do not have any experience in agriculture/aquaculture.
Was in Ipoh a few months back, there is this guy that deliver Red Tilapia to Ipoh. Story is that their boss got a permit to rear these fishes at a dam in upper Perak and under their "agreement" certain % is for export and certain % needs to to sold off locally. He is doing the local sales, frozen Tilapia both wholesale & retail.
Good luck. Would sure like to visit your new farm.

---

Added on March 28, 2012, 9:54 pmThanks for your suggestion MJ, unfortunately there is only a small creek at my farm, where I had widen it to a pool at a certain section. There is practically no water current and water level is below the land about 10 to 15 feet (depending on the season).
Wind turbine/ Solar panel is not an option as it's quite costly, need continuous wind current, theft & etc.

I think I may be able to grasp your idea. But then rain collection troughs interfere/compete with sunlight. Hope to have this system working especially during drought season. And mobility.

So far, I am thinking of using a standard 25 liter tank (from discarded herbicide) attach a 4 mm tube to a micro drip. As I had not find out about the flow rate /pressure of the micro drips, rough guess a 25 liter could last for 4 ~ 6 days before refilling. Could use a wheelbarrow or a truck to drive to the pool, refill , then distribute the tanks. Or run the pump, use hose to fill up all tanks. What do you think?

This post has been edited by MrFarmer: Mar 28 2012, 09:54 PM

MrFarmer:

Whoa! That is really low water level. I thought I recalled that flooding used to be an issue. Maybe I've confused you with someone else.

As I said, your idea is good, just laborious. Why not just test it and see? Never try, never know, and it will always just remain an idea on paper. But please do clean the herbicide barrels thoroughly, including soaking with soapy water for a few days. Herbicide residue can still be dangerous for crops.

Hi guys... i was randomly reading about hydroponics, then aeroponics, then it brought me to fertigation, that led me to Cili Fertigasi and then it led me here after a stop by the autopot site...lolz...

was planning on starting small with a mini fertigation "farm" behind my house to just try it out before things get serious. any opinion on this business you can share?

Thanks for your comments Michael. Basically the middle men takes back the fish live. They will come to collect it with their 3 tonne lorry that is equipped with aerators. Most likely they are supplying to restaurants where they can get a good price for them.

We are trying to understand the risk involved in the business as neither me or my partner has experience in it. This is why I posted in this forum. Infact today I just brought over an experience farmer to the fish farm to gauge to see if the business is viable.

I understand that in any business there will be many risk involved, otherwise everyone would be doing business. There will also be plenty of ways to reduce risk with the right knowledge. Risk that are out of our control will be tough to mitigate but with experience, perhaps we could bring down the cost of production and increase quality.

I foresee that demand will remain high since population growth is certain but it also depends on the number of players that will take up the venture. If the market becomes oversaturated, then prices goes down and most farmers will suffer. The tilapia will be 100% pellet fed and if pellet feed keeps increasing in price each year and the price of fish keeps dropping, I don't see any sense in its economics, unless we become flooded with cheap tilapias from thailand or china.

well I hope to ROI in 1 - 2 years and perhaps do about 20 - 30% profit

---

Added on March 29, 2012, 5:33 pmHi Mr. Farmer,

My partner and I definitely do not have hands-on experience in running a fish farm. I'm from the IT background and he is from manufacturing. We both have keen interest in aquaculture but our experience goes as far as rearing ornamental fish. I do not know how else to get hands-on experience in a fish farm unless I go and work in one which I doubt will happen. We plan to attend a few trainings and basically get our hands dirty immediately.

I have closed friends who have experience in aquaculture so they would be able to help out. Moreover, the farm is already being operated by 3 Indons and they basically do everything from changing water to harvesting the fish. The owner of the farm has also agreed to guide us for a couple of weeks to get ourselves familiar in managing the fund.

We have done cashflow projections for 3 years so basically we will know how long our capital can last.

We definitely won't know the real reason the owner is selling the farm but he claims he is retiring.... so can't really say much about that.

This post has been edited by elmer: Mar 29 2012, 05:33 PM

Elmer:

My apologies if we sounded a little antagonistic, but we really meant well. Aquaculture, like agriculture, is a sensitive business influenced by many external factors. But again, we're all in this together to learn from each other, so hope there isn't any hard feelings.

If they are collecting live fish, then most likely it is for restaurants or for processing. Since they are a feed company, I'm thinking it could be the latter, as the by product from the fish could be used to produce fish feeds.

I agree with your observation on population growth and demand for cheaper sources of proteins. And I also agree that too many players in the market will lead to sharp price reductions. However, I also believe that there will be a stablizing factor which will keep things in balance.

Just so happens I'm currently doing an analysis of the Malaysian aquaculture industry. Actually, the current prices of tilapia is no secret. Fresh frozen whole tilapia from China sells for around US$1.50, or about RM4.60 a kg. Top grade tilapia flesh from Taiwan (sashimi grade) sells for almost 3 times that figure. This is wholesale price. I believe, there are enough niches for producers to tackle. I know of one particular company producing tilapia, and they have vertically integrated a processing plant near their site. They used to do domestic and regional sale, but now are 100% export oriented, producing tilapia fillets. Latest I heard, their venture was so successful that they are expanding into marine shrimp culture also, with a double digit million ringgit investment. FYI, this company has only been doing this for about 5 years.

From the analysis I've been doing so far, most aquaculture companies are no longer focused on raw material production, i.e. just producing fish. Many are actually merging their businesses with other companies focus on different peripheries of the trade, eg. logistics, feedmill, processing and marketing/distribution. This is the emerging trend in aquaculture businesses. Case in point, Gold Coin (feed producer) recently acquired Sy Aqua, which is a marine shrimp R&D and production unit based in Thailand, and together, they will be going into shrimp aquaculture in a big way. There have been some talk about further expansion within ASEAN too.

However, I'm not too sure if 20-30% is a realistic figure... This 20-30% figure has already factored in amortization of capital items?

[quote=Michael J.,Mar 29 2012, 09:01 AM]MrFarmer:

Whoa! That is really low water level. I thought I recalled that flooding used to be an issue. Maybe I've confused you with someone else.

As I said, your idea is good, just laborious. Why not just test it and see? Never try, never know, and it will always just remain an idea on paper. But please do clean the herbicide barrels thoroughly, including soaking with soapy water for a few days. Herbicide residue can still be dangerous for crops.

[/quote]
Thanks for the reminder on the cleaning of the herbicide barrel.
My farm do not have flood problem, 1) just a small patch of land where the water can not drain off. Had solved this by digging a drainage trough. 2) Side of the creek floods during the rainy season, and subside when no rain. Had not sort this as there are still lots of overgrown and short of labor at the moment.
Yes, am definitely testing this out.

---

Added on March 29, 2012, 9:43 pm

---

Added on March 29, 2012, 5:33 pmHi Mr. Farmer,

My partner and I definitely do not have hands-on experience in running a fish farm. I'm from the IT background and he is from manufacturing. We both have keen interest in aquaculture but our experience goes as far as rearing ornamental fish. I do not know how else to get hands-on experience in a fish farm unless I go and work in one which I doubt will happen. We plan to attend a few trainings and basically get our hands dirty immediately.

I have closed friends who have experience in aquaculture so they would be able to help out. Moreover, the farm is already being operated by 3 Indons and they basically do everything from changing water to harvesting the fish. The owner of the farm has also agreed to guide us for a couple of weeks to get ourselves familiar in managing the fund.

We have done cashflow projections for 3 years so basically we will know how long our capital can last.

We definitely won't know the real reason the owner is selling the farm but he claims he is retiring.... so can't really say much about that.

[/quote]
Hi Elmer, sorry, I'm just playing the antagonistic role, but I really meant well and wish you to have success on your first try.

Any possibility of roping in the most experience friend as a junior partner? This may greatly reduce your risk on the production side.

As for the 3 Indons, do check when is their permit expiring and how long have they been in Malaysia. Their work permit can only be renewed up to 3 years, after that, they shall need to leave the country. Please be prepared as most probably 3 of them falls on the same date.

I went into agriculture on a way, and hope others shall be more prepared. I got my hand dirtied gradually for the past 20 months, but the last 7 months was very intensive as my partner left. Just hurt my back 2 weeks back, now was referred to an Orthopedic and today got a cut while sharpening my parang Not that I'm regretting it, but I feel that you shall fare much better if you are more prepared.

---

Added on March 29, 2012, 9:48 pm[quote=jwai85,Mar 29 2012, 03:25 PM]
Hi guys... i was randomly reading about hydroponics, then aeroponics, then it brought me to fertigation, that led me to Cili Fertigasi and then it led me here after a stop by the autopot site...lolz...

was planning on starting small with a mini fertigation "farm" behind my house to just try it out before things get serious. any opinion on this business you can share?

[/quote]
Hi Jwai85, welcome.
You may want to visit Sin Seng Huat Seeds, http://www.greeneagle.com.my/main.htm
They sell seeds and supplies for fertigation. They have set up their fertigation at their office and looks quite easy enough. They can even show you how to do it. Was there last week, didn't bring my camera.

This post has been edited by MrFarmer: Mar 29 2012, 09:48 PM

Mmm.... I believe I've somehow hit on a raw nerve.

Ok, let me just put it this way: Don't let anyone tell you something cannot be done, if you truly believe you can do it, and you are prepared to do whatever it takes to get it done.

My comments were based on the inputs provided, and is not meant to be a discouragement, but rather a reality check. If that was not how it sounded, then truly, my most sincere apology.

Hi Michael,

No worries. No hard feelings from me. It was indeed good that you could present your points honestly and objectively so that I know what I am getting into.

My partner and I have been working for the past 8 - 9 years and we left our cushy high paying jobs to work for ourselves. We understand that we won't be able to enjoy high salaries for the first few years but we want to know if this is a business we can build long term and eventually make it big.

That example you provided on the company that is doing Tilapia fillets and are now 100% export oriented is what we want to eventually aim for. I do not want to get into this business if it will just basically put food on the table and nothing more. So really, at the end of the day, there is big potential in the business but its just how big you want to grow it and how well you manage it.

Thanks again for your insights. They really provide me with a great overview of the current trends in the industry.

Elmer :

if you dont mind i would like to post my answer here also to your PM

=======================

RAS initial costing is too high for small time players because you dont get Economies of Scale.

unless you have RM 10-20 million sitting in your bank then its worth your time and effort.

actually RAS gives you control of labour because it requires less labour to operate the system.

well there are a few tilapia farmers in Hulu Langat, Semenyih & Broga that are quite big. but they are NOT RAS

=======================

if you are doing pond culture then your initial cost wouldn't be that high BUT you have to be very very careful with labour force as i know a few people who "manufacture" culvert pipes & others in KL/Selangor had closed down due to our Govt's Pemutihan Exercise

another thing i didnt read or maybe i missed, Where is this 8 acre of land ???

and seriously depending on your take-over price can you ROI in 1-2 years ?

Elmer:

Ah, great then. The desire to pursue after a greater ambition is indeed a good thing.

If your intention is to do value-added products, then yes, the opportunities are great. The demand for value-added products flip-flops between the US and Europe, meaning some years US has over-the-top demand, but then some years (like 2011 and 2012), the demand drops drastically (nearly 14% drop in demand). You may have already known, aquaculture in Malaysia is growing at about 14% a year, but is expected to slow down a little by 2015 to about 9% growth per annum. So for any player who intends to do only what I'd call "raw material production", the competition will be quite stiff. Value-added products have the great benefit of being able to move between markets more easily, have a more stable pricing, and are less prone to legislation threats.

From what I can see, a lot of consumers in the US and Europe are moving away from pricey fish species like sea bass and seaperch, and buying up more pangasius and tilapia. Asia Pacific, on the other hand, seem to be going for higher-valued fish, like barramundi and grouper. But whatever the case is, fish in US and Europe is pricey; in the US, tilapia fillets sell for US$11 per kg (about RM33) retail.

Para:

You are right that RAS requires economies of scale, and that the costs can be high. But it does solve many other issues, like taste, quality, disease control, labor etc. Also, RAS allows you to flip between different cultures quite easily.

Agreed on this comment. RAS has many advantages compared to pond culture especially CONTROL Issues.

I didnt know that you can flip between cultures....now that's interesting...

Michael:

Thanks for your insights again. You definitely are an expert in this field. We have to probably take small baby steps before moving into value added products as producing those products comes with a big cost. Indeed that is where we want to be headed if that is where the money is. I guess farming tilapia would be a good place to start.

The world population is definitely increasing and people are living longer. I see that the demand will only increase for fresh fish especially when harvesting from the wild will soon be no longer a viable option. Thanks again and wish us luck! I will keep you guys updated on our progress.

Para:

Yes, you can swith from one culture to another. But I should clarify that by "flip", I mean after a few years of one culture, flip to another. If want to alternate between years, it is more difficult to maintain.

Also, the success of flipping from freshwater to marine culture depends on the availability of acceptable quality, cheap marine salt. My opinion, however, if not to do a full marine culture, but a brackish water culture instead (brackish water is like river mouth water, partly marine, partly freshwater). Species suitable for this sort of culture include many species of bream and porgies, grunts, and some snappers. All these fish have very high wholesale and retail values, are quite disease tolerant, and have strong, ready demand domestically and internationally. The major shortfall is availability of fingerlings (except snappers like Mangrove Jacks). Some, like the grunts (aka gerut) have abundant wildstock, while breams and porgies are less common but still available.

Elmer:

Yes, please do update us from time to time. It would be good to have your inputs.

Michael,

After much deliberation, we are thinking of cutting down our risk and moving into higher value fish with lower operating cost. We have identified a smaller farm that is now rearing tilapia as well as marble goby. Can I get your opinion on the marketability of marble goby and what sort of risk factors to look out for. The farm will be smaller and opex will be significantly lower. The farm has 3 ponds - 2 big one (half an acre) and one small one (quarter acre). We are thinking to breed live feed (small fish or shrimps) for food source in the smaller pond and grow out the marble goby in floating cages in the bigger ponds so that personal attention can be given to each fish. We realize mortality in marble goby is pretty low so special care needs to be taken to check the fish for disease.

Your thoughts on this will be much appreciated.