brother i lazy read all your stuff la,but im sure your post sure on FV. im not talking about the attack DMG la. mana break works on hero with mana,don take Min Dmg go count la, take Max Add Min divide to get Mean (wow i love my stat ) then add in 8DMG of Mana break. Of coz FV kill a creep with less hit,coz melee creep got no mana,mana break wont work.Its so common sense but it might kill faceless in lv1,coz FV have mana,damage is almost the same like FV too.most important,mana break goes thru Armor.meaning,FV's dmg will be reduce by the 4.1 armor of AM and same goes to AM but AM have extra 8 damage that wont be reduce.so jsut like what i say,the 10% bash determine who stand till the last. (again ,im not AM favour).about FV with bkb,linken,watever la,if opponent is a player with skill,do you think we will let FV farm till that level?simply ask any player here in lyn who play in competition,will they let a FV farm till that many level3 above item in pub game? and basically,no need to "wow,2 guinsoo,10k" ,it's very to farm out ok?

This dispute can only be solved with a 1 on 1 match!! Who want to become magina and who want to become fv? later post replay hahahaah.

If you don't read, you also will not understand what i want to find out or my views ma.

Got ppl says AM can kill faster at lvl 1 compare to FV lvl 1. I say FV at lvl 1 can kill melee, range creep and AM lvl1 mana break faster. Just tat i'm not sure about AM mana break deal the extra dmg to hero without mana coz some says no dmg.

The BKB, linkens, BT is my suggestion reply to early guy who suggest getting guinsoos to fight FV .. If the only best you can says is to stop FV from getting tat item by out farm or deny him....using AM, tat means there is no other way to win in a fair fight? Other hero can get their item and FV have no chance to get his item.. its just doesn't seems rite.

U says FV cant farm well and alwys get harrassed compare to AM and most other LYN ppl also think like tat. .. If you got read my earlier posting, you might understand better, FV is also an agility hero like AM and with IAS items he can also farm and get the items he wants. Both also melee heroes, its really unfair to say FV cant farm to get good items. if vs AM.

If you ask those who play good FV or have played against a good FV using AM, once FV get tread, 2 Wraiths + lvl 3/4 Timelock and Chronos, who cant farm well or get harrass most of the time?

I'll say both heroes have good chance to farm and harrass, but FV timelock+ chronos will have more advantage.

Cheers,
v_viper88

This post has been edited by viper88: Jan 27 2007, 11:12 PM

FV timelock do have extra dmg when its activated

http://dotastrategy.com/strategy-988-TimeSplitter.html

FV Bash ()
Gives a chance that an attack will do bonus damage and stun an opponent for 1 second.
Level 1 - 10% chance per attack, 40 bonus damage.
Level 2 - 15% chance per attack, 50 bonus damage.
Level 3 - 20% chance per attack, 60 bonus damage.
Level 4 - 25% chance per attack, 70 bonus damage.

Just pump in IAS item and TL will kick in more and the 70 bonus dmg is like a good relic to me..

Cheers,
v_viper88

This post has been edited by viper88: Jan 27 2007, 02:20 PM

FV will not have his wraiths and other stuff at the beginning of the game. And AM can also get items too. FV will NOT be able to get any item which adds 39 damage for a very large part of the game, while AM has it for free by lv 7.

FV's basher and evasion simply do not count for much early game since AM is going to be taking out huge chunks of hp with blink/break and harassing. No AM will stand there and give you a chance to bash him.

Farming wise, AM WILL outlevel and outfarm FV because of much higher attspeed and fast attack animation. Let's say both AM and FV attack the same creep at critical hp at the same moment. AM will get the kill because his attack triggers first. Ownage for both farming and denying.

With consistent farming and denying, there's bound to be a 2 to 3 level gap midgame. Item-wise. AM can farm his eaglehorn or demon edge/relic first to harass the heck out of FV, stunting FV's leveling even further. FV will only be able to even up the gap late game.

Added on January 27, 2007, 2:46 pm:
My bad on this one, did not notice it on dota-allstars. And it's more like a claymore with a 25% chance to trigger.

This post has been edited by snorlax: Jan 27 2007, 02:46 PM

I already know you will repeat say AM will outlvl, outfarm and get better item than FV.

Even when the game start with $500, FV can already can get 1 wraith. or 1/2 cirlets and 1/2 slippers or etcs

Don't tell me at lvl 1 - 7 FV cant or hard 2 farm for basic items ... unless tat player is a noobie okla.. i agree. Even for average player, its shouldn't be any problem to farm against AM which is also a melee hero.

Around lvl 7, FV already get 2-3 wraith and treads. This increase attck speed and will also increase the chance to activate timelock. The extra dmg from timelock + the 1 secs stun gives another free direct normal dmg hit or FV can choose to activate Chronos and its hard/no escape/blink for AM which add another 2-3 free hits. This combo deal big chunk of dmg at AM too.

Most AM players get gauntlet, ror and concentrate to farm for basher...At that lvl, AM attck speed same or maybe slightly faster dpd on his item build. Even if AM go for treads and wraiths like FV, he still cant stop TL or Chronos coz no basher or disabler skill. Most of the time AM will blink and run if see FV coming towards him..
If he stay and fight, its a gamble with his hp and life. AM also will think few times to blink in harrass FV coz if the FV timelock activated, you know what will happen...

Whereas for FV, no need worry so much, just farm smart and just hit AM if he come close/blink..

FV also wont just stand and let AM attck/harrass him, sure will return attack and both also get dmg.. so why you said only AM can out lvl, out farm thus getting better item?

Just bcos AM attck animation faster and higher agility? How about the FV add IAS item, stun, extra dmg and the big bubble Chronos? It still cant match AM skill?

Ya, dota-allstars dun have much detail info abt the extra dmg stuff... Go read at dotastrategy.com.

Cheers,
v_viper88

This post has been edited by viper88: Jan 27 2007, 05:04 PM

http://www.mkshare.org/726100

I've tried it on level 1 with no items and level 1 with 5 agility bracers and 1 glove of haste.

Note:-I did not attribute to anything when fv was on 2.

This post has been edited by ubhm: Jan 27 2007, 06:29 PM

sigh, 1.21 version, i pop out "this is different version of warcraft 3",mind posting the result?

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Added on January 27, 2007, 10:32 pm
k la,FV wins don take it so serious. ITS ALL DEPEND ON THE PLAYER

This post has been edited by akRia: Jan 27 2007, 10:32 PM

3 rounds of fight.

AM with lvl 1 mana break
FV with lvl 1 Timelock.

1st round both hero no item
2nd round both hero no item
3rd last round both hero have 5 wraiths + 1 glove,

FV won in all the 3 rounds 1v1 fight.

Even with 5 wraiths and 1 glove AM still lose when 1v1

For those who says/think FV cant match AM early in farm/lvl/harrass, should see the replay.

Cheers,
v_viper88

---

Added on January 28, 2007, 12:12 amNice. Thanks for the replay.

Cheers,
v_viper88


This post has been edited by viper88: Jan 28 2007, 12:12 AM

This applies for level 1 only, in later stages/circumstances we don't really know what will happen.

You have already put in 5 wraiths and 1 gloves. Its already show if both hero only increase Attck speed even at other lvl especially early game direct fight, FV still have advantage. Mid/end game FV will have more advantage with BT and chronos.

The bash stun, extra bonus dmg will knock out AM faster.
Level 1 - 10% chance per attack, 40 bonus damage.
Level 2 - 15% chance per attack, 50 bonus damage.
Level 3 - 20% chance per attack, 60 bonus damage.
Level 4 - 25% chance per attack, 70 bonus damage.

That is why i say AM will think few times gamble his hp/life if want to harrass FV.
AM won't know when the timelock will be activated.. If he get caught by Timelock + Chronos, he wont have much chance to survive. Those who say AM can harrass FV easily obviously didn't play with a good FV before.. ..

Cheers,
v_viper88

This post has been edited by viper88: Jan 28 2007, 08:17 AM

hmm..i think this discussion is not getting beneficial liao
first of all, you guys are assuming that FV will vs AM in the same lane
now imho, a smart player, if they keep on die, they will likely to change lane or ask for help
secondly theres so many place to farm..its unlikely for you to completely stop a player from farming well
so the whole discussion should be about how FV vs AM at the end game
what sort of builds can AM get to kill FV? this is the kind of discussion that needs to spark out

of course you need to compare 2 pros fight together man!
precisely a pro FV vs a pro AM
if that 64 mana break damage of your AM could control the FV from farming whole game..i salute you for doing so, coz that is not likely going to happen unless you fight against noob FV who can't return damage when you hit him

its not a matter of who is better using which character, if u are a AM player...you should tell how can you kill a FV , using logic of course , if u are telling us by your experience or vs AI..i don't think it even counts as a debate

btw this message is for AM players, i already agree FV wins completely : hands down
my previous post shows possibility of AM to win , but the chance is slim

It does have benefits. This will show tat faceless void is not as weak in farm, lvling, harras compare to AM early game as some forumer think.

This topic is about comparing AM & FV to find out which heroes is better.

I have already stated my points and gives the item build and suggestion how to counter AM. Some forumer here think they can win FV early game coz farm/lvl/harras? FV can also do the same or better at am .

FV
Early game
5 branches, 1 chick
2-3 wraiths, Treads

Mid/end game
Butterfly
Radiance,
BKB (if AM got high hp with blademails)
Linkens (if AM go for Guinsoo)
BUrize/MOM

Tell me whats AM build to counter this FV?
What is AM chances to win in 1v1 vs FV if both player are good?

Cheers,
v_viper88





This post has been edited by viper88: Jan 28 2007, 10:56 AM

5 branch no regen item hmp if i am the AM i would be waitin harassing you until your hp low and wait for your chicken to kill it

The same old harrass story again.
No item build and also didnt say how to counter the FV build..
Is ur AM good at harrassing only?

Obviously u dunno wats goin on..

Cheers,
v_viper88

eh viper88 go fight flizzardo, he talk cock a lot one, then u post replay here, who win determines the whole debate!!!.

IMO Faceless > Anti mage as late gamers. Hands down to faceless as he can almost wipe out any hero in ur dota vocabulary late game coz of his imba kia timelock and evasion skill. I just dont get it, how can u pick two heroes with the skills totally different then each other. In harassing early on, AM manage to win. I wont tell you how. -_-
Why cant match two bashers like faceless and spiritbreaker? or faceless and troll warlock. zz

yyea...i haf no idea wuts goin on....

that completely summarizes my point
there is nothing to debate here
they are juz comparing apples and bananas in the end