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DotA Dota Battle "Offiicial" anti-mage vs faceless void

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viper88
post Jan 22 2007, 10:40 AM

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Well, just to make it more interesting ma. Anything wrong ar?
Some other dota heroes oso got the same replies like FV but some have different replies. I didn't say only Faceless void have those replies. Only u think like tat... doh.gif

Don't know why some forumer here can jump into conclusion so fast without thinking using brain.... laugh.gif

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v_viper88


QUOTE(Sesshoumaru @ Jan 22 2007, 10:03 AM)
Check out what Faceless replies when sending him an order.
How may i aide you.
How can this old one help?
My strength is yours.
My ancestors call.
We'll share our ways.
I pledge my loyalty.
I'll need it once again.
I'll try my best

^ rofl... these are quotes by the Draenei, and you make it sound exclusively for the Faceless Void. How DotA can make one naive to the core whao...
*
This post has been edited by viper88: Jan 22 2007, 11:04 AM
MyCJS01
post Jan 22 2007, 12:29 PM

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i think the faceless void will win..
get 2 basher + mask of madness + his ult, lolz...
anti drain his mana ? let him.. he doesn`t need so much.. just a little only.. and his mana poor not too high, anti ult won`t damage too much to him .. so, faceless void will win in a great chance..
Sesshoumaru
post Jan 22 2007, 01:23 PM

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Cheers mate! Looks like imply isn't part of your vocabulary! ROFL! xD

This post has been edited by Sesshoumaru: Jan 22 2007, 01:23 PM
viper88
post Jan 22 2007, 03:58 PM

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Yes, faceless void will win if at the same high lvl play with about same dmg item.

Normaly i dun get 2 bashers or MOM, just max agilty, IAS dmg item and high dmg weapon.

I've vs many AM before tat max bashers ..
AM got treads, 2 bashers, whereas i have treads, butterfly, wraiths and yet still win.
FV will bash more often especially with butterfly. With Chronos, i've already have a starting upper hand bash AM. icon_idea.gif

FV backtrack skill can hlp him 25% chance to avoid 100% most of the physical, magic dmg and most important avoid being permabash. With butterfly, its close to 50% miss attk liao...

AM Mana shield only reduce magical dmg by 40%.. cant block physical dmg or stun or also.. tongue.gif

You decide who will get bashed and stun more often?



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QUOTE(MyCJS01 @ Jan 22 2007, 12:29 PM)
i think the faceless void will win..
get 2 basher + mask of madness + his ult, lolz...
anti drain his mana ? let him.. he doesn`t need so much.. just a little only.. and his mana poor not too high, anti ult won`t damage too much to him .. so, faceless void will win in a great chance..
*
This post has been edited by viper88: Jan 22 2007, 04:03 PM
Ban Guan
post Jan 22 2007, 04:37 PM

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QUOTE(nickisthemost @ Jan 19 2007, 12:11 PM)
user posted image vs user posted image
who will win and who's u'r favorite
*
if both player in same level
in early game, am won
mid game, depend luck
in late game, fv won.
viper88
post Jan 22 2007, 06:44 PM

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Can you explain why early game AM win?
What is your early game looks like, lvl 1 - 6 or < level 16 ?

Game starts with:

AM -454 hp
Str-16
Agi-22
Int-15

FV - 473hp
Str-17
Agi-21
Int-15

Early game without any skill point, FV still leading in HP. rclxms.gif

Around level 10, FV already just max Timelock, Backtrack, Chronos skill and just 1 point for Timewalk. At tat level without any items both heroes, FV still wins vs AM. You know why?

1. Timelock (25% bash owns)
2. Backtrack (25% miss attk, no dmg)
3. Chronos (100% cant move)

Wat AM can do about it?

icon_rolleyes.gif Cheers, icon_rolleyes.gif
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QUOTE(Ban Guan @ Jan 22 2007, 04:37 PM)
if both player in same level
in early game, am won
mid game, depend luck
in late game, fv won.
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Ban Guan
post Jan 22 2007, 08:46 PM

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QUOTE(viper88 @ Jan 22 2007, 06:44 PM)
Can you explain why early game AM win?
What is your early game looks like, lvl 1 - 6 or < level 16 ?

Game starts with:

AM -454 hp
Str-16
Agi-22
Int-15

FV - 473hp
Str-17
Agi-21
Int-15

Early game without any skill point,  FV still leading in HP.  rclxms.gif

Around level 10, FV already just max Timelock, Backtrack, Chronos skill and just 1 point for Timewalk. At tat level without any items both heroes, FV still wins vs AM. You know why?

1. Timelock (25% bash owns)
2. Backtrack (25% miss attk, no dmg)
3. Chronos (100% cant move)

Wat AM can do about it?

icon_rolleyes.gif Cheers, icon_rolleyes.gif
v_viper88
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u try n c if u use am hit the enemy range creep when u lv1 n learned mana break.
u count u need how many hit to kill tat raange creep.
then same for fv.

same theory to both of them if their at lv1 fight till death n no run......
i dun think tat fv learn bash can kill am in lv1.
viper88
post Jan 22 2007, 11:03 PM

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AM can kill range creep faster at lvl 1? hmm... hmm.gif
I've just tested, since you said AM lvl 1 with lvl 1 mana break can kill faster.

AM lvl 1 with mana break need 6 hits to kill a range creep.
FV lvl 1 with Timelock only need 5 hits to kill a range creeps. (Timelock not even kick in yet also, if kick in maybe only 4 hits will get the job done.)

So if AM lvl 1 with mana break lvl 1 vs FV lvl 1 timelock lvl 1, FV will win.

Go try it out and c if dun belief me.

AM mana break only depletes mana at the beginning, once the enemy mana no more then only reduce enemy's hp.

At lvl 1, AM mana breaks 16 mana per hit. Normal attck 46-50 dmg
AM lvl 1 - 454 hp

At lvl 1 FV mana pool is 195. With Timelock 10% chance deal Bonus dmg and lock enemy for 1 secs. Normal attck is 58-64 dmg. (Dmg oso higher min by 12 rclxms.gif )
FV lvl 1 - 473hp

AM will need about 12 hits (12x16) to depletes FV mana (195) before can deal extra dmg. His normal attack is 45-50 already lower by 12 compare to FV normal attck which is 58-64. ohmy.gif

At lvl 1, evey hit from FV attk at AM minimum will reduce AM HP by 12-14 dmg more and once the 10% timelock kicks in, bonus dmg is even higher.

So by the time AM hit FV 12 times, only then he'll have about extra 4 dmg more then FV for the every next hit. But by tat time, FV timelock most likely kicks in deal extra dmg and lock 1 secs means 1 free punch at AM dealing dmg 58-64 just like tat.

After about 12 times exchanging blow, i think either one hero will already dead at that time. Do the maths and it will shows FV will win at lvl 1 direct fight.

icon_rolleyes.gif Cheers, icon_rolleyes.gif
v_viper88



QUOTE(Ban Guan @ Jan 22 2007, 08:46 PM)
u try n c if u use am hit the enemy range creep when u lv1 n learned mana break.
u count u need how many hit to kill tat raange creep.
then same for fv.

same theory to both of them if their at lv1 fight till death n no run......
i dun think tat fv learn bash can kill am in lv1.
*
This post has been edited by viper88: Jan 23 2007, 04:27 PM
metalfreak
post Jan 23 2007, 01:14 PM

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you guys discussing on a topic that is so subjective.

It all depends on the game. If you farm and level well, doesn't matter which hero..be it Anti Mage or FV...both will be good.

Dark Lynx
post Jan 23 2007, 09:18 PM

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QUOTE(metalfreak @ Jan 23 2007, 01:14 PM)
you guys discussing on a topic that is so subjective.

It all depends on the game. If you farm and level well, doesn't matter which hero..be it Anti Mage or FV...both will be good.
*
lol owned 2 birds with 1 stone

basically both hero have below average hp but either one make use of disabler first (FV's ulti or AM with guinsoo) will ensure the victory at end game, thats my 2 cent

This post has been edited by Dark Lynx: Jan 23 2007, 09:18 PM
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post Jan 24 2007, 05:16 AM

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seriously , if i'm host/LAN game i can avoid ts ulti
viper88
post Jan 24 2007, 10:07 PM

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Wow.. tats sumthing i hardly see AM player get.. a GUINsoo...to vs FV.
Its not cheap guinsoo... hmmm...

FV can TW from 1300 range away and suprise attck AM, slowed him and immediately cast Chronos..

Most AM will just try blink and run away coz scared trap inside Chronos.... tongue.gif

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QUOTE(Dark Lynx @ Jan 23 2007, 09:18 PM)
lol owned 2 birds with 1 stone

basically both hero have below average hp but either one make use of disabler first (FV's ulti or AM with guinsoo) will ensure the victory at end game, thats my 2 cent
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Dark Lynx
post Jan 24 2007, 11:31 PM

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QUOTE(viper88 @ Jan 24 2007, 10:07 PM)
Wow.. tats sumthing i hardly see AM player get.. a GUINsoo...to vs FV.
Its not cheap guinsoo... hmmm...

FV can TW from 1300 range away and suprise attck AM, slowed him and immediately cast Chronos..

Most AM will just try blink and run away coz scared trap inside Chronos.... tongue.gif

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v_viper88
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unfortunately its true
no no, guinsoo is the main point here, of course he doesn't buy ONLY a guinsoo to fight against FV..thats stupid ain't it? blush.gif
AM blink away? what if you're the AM that is blinking in? aha evade after blink?
whichever the case, the first one flies in (FV or AM) will be in disadvantage because the other can escape away, you are just seeing from one point of view

tell me what build should an AM get to fight versus a faceless void?
more HP? increase damage? insane evasion? (few butterfly) zapper style? (dagon)
well any of the above, when you use to fight against an average faceless will also win against you
he simply needs to Chronos on you (did someone mentioned he can evade chronos? give a better reason please, a LAN host or not doesn't show any sense how you can evade a chronos ) yawn.gif
an average player will only responds (from a sudden attack from AM) right after 2-3 attacks, so u still have some time to chronos before you are dead
if his chronos fails, he also have backtrack and bash
now to make matters worst, anti mage is a melee character that relies heavily on his normal attack (since FV not a caster)

now theres few scenario i can think of when an anti mage can kill a FV (with clear results)
1) FV was caught off guard by sudden attack from AM (with few bashers). He got bashed non stop and die before can cast Chronos
2) AM guinsoed FV and kill him before he can cast ulti (at least 5-6 wacks on minimum during guinsooed time )
3) AM got few heart of tarrasque and butterfly, FV cant kill him within the time AM was inside Chronos (FV damage not strong enough probably )
TSnickisthemost
post Jan 25 2007, 11:26 AM

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i do realise FV take a long time to cast ulti before that he will get bash by AM but that do not mean FV will lose because he still have a lil mana left to timewalk
snorlax
post Jan 25 2007, 02:08 PM

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Everybody neglects common sense on the side of the AM. What AM would fight after getting hit with a chronosphere? Unless chrono can take out AM at one go, chances are AM would blink away to heal and come back later. Chrono can be factored out till very late game, if FV has reached the permabash/insane damage stage. Without chrono, it's harassing heaven for AM.

Mana break depletes hp, AND deals damage equal to mana burned at the same time. Good blink/break AMs will make it almost impossible for FV to farm or do anything useful early/mid game. No AM is going to stand and trade blows till he dies. Blink has a 5sec cd for a reason. Thus, chances are AM is more likely to ambush FV than vice versa. Late game, FV might be able to prevail, if he managed to farm some decent items. Then again, if it's AM vs FV solo, AM would be pushing midgame to prevent FV from reaching late game.
ik3da
post Jan 25 2007, 03:33 PM

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Given the base skills that both AM and FV have in hand, FV fare much better than AM.

How many items does AM need to kill a FV in a fight? Honestly, IMO I believe that in early phases, one MOM is good enough for FV to resist or even counter any harrassment by AM. Find it hard that the base evasion (Backtrack) and base bashing (Timelock) would lose to AM base skills (Mana break and Blink).

Have yet to see a good AM win against a good FV, thus I say FV will win.
SUSFlizzardo
post Jan 25 2007, 03:53 PM

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dont forget AM have very fast base attack speed n fv attack slow so every 1.5 attack of AM only equals to 1 fv attack i think la
yen223
post Jan 25 2007, 04:46 PM

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AM vs faceless? Sure faceless will win la...
FV>>>>>most heroes 1 on 1 (except maybe QOP)
5 on 5 faceless aso is more useful than AM, thanks to his ulti of imbaness

viper88
post Jan 25 2007, 07:34 PM

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This is how FV fight in 1v1, he attk till both enemy and his life is half/red and his Timelock kicks in, FV will cast the Chronos and finish tat guy.

For vs AM, since AM depletes his mana, FV will Timewalk to AM slowing down his attck speed so cant depletes FV fast enuf, timelock kicks in and bang Chronos!..

AM mana breaks need to breaks all the enemy mana 1st before can add extra dmg to his base attck damage. Its not dmg both hp and mana at the same time as far as i know lar.. You can see there is no + base dmg at AM when u select the mana break skill.

You can try use AM lvl1 with mana break lvl 1 vs FV lvl 1 without any skill, see who die first. FV lead the dmg minimun by 12 hp with every blow at AM. About 10 hits, AM wll die 1st.

At higher lvl, AM agility is fast and with lvl4 mana break, he's can clear enemy fast and deals alot dmg.

FV wont just chronos directly at AM, tats a bad move coz every1 know AM can blink away. Best is TW slow him, timelock and imediately Chronos.

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QUOTE(snorlax @ Jan 25 2007, 02:08 PM)
Everybody neglects common sense on the side of the AM. What AM would fight after getting hit with a chronosphere? Unless chrono can take out AM at one go, chances are AM would blink away to heal and come back later. Chrono can be factored out till very late game, if FV has reached the permabash/insane damage stage. Without chrono, it's harassing heaven for AM.

Mana break depletes hp, AND deals damage equal to mana burned at the same time. Good blink/break AMs will make it almost impossible for FV to farm or do anything useful early/mid game. No AM is going to stand and trade blows till he dies. Blink has a 5sec cd for a reason. Thus, chances are AM is more likely to ambush FV than vice versa. Late game, FV might be able to prevail, if he managed to farm some decent items. Then again, if it's AM vs FV solo, AM would be pushing midgame to prevent FV from reaching late game.
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viper88
post Jan 25 2007, 07:58 PM

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Reply in [COLOR=blue]blue[COLOR=blue]

icon_rolleyes.gif Cheers, icon_rolleyes.gif
v_viper88

[COLOR=blue]
QUOTE(Dark Lynx @ Jan 24 2007, 11:31 PM)
unfortunately its true
no no, guinsoo is the main point here, of course he doesn't buy ONLY a guinsoo to fight against FV..thats stupid ain't it?  blush.gif

[COLOR=blue]Its expensive i rather get other item.[COLOR=blue]

AM blink away? what if you're the AM that is blinking in? aha evade after blink?
whichever the case, the first one flies in (FV or AM) will be in disadvantage because the other can escape away, you are just seeing from one point of view

[COLOR=blue]Of coz I know either 1 hero can blink away, i didn't see 1 point of view only, its u tat think like tat.  IF i'm FV, i tw slow Am, timelock hits and then only Chronos. If i'm AM, i'll check FV mana pool and if its low, i'll blink in and fight him face to face. [COLOR=blue]

tell me what build should an AM get to fight versus a faceless void?
more HP? increase damage? insane evasion? (few butterfly) zapper style? (dagon)
well any of the above, when you use to fight against an average faceless will also win against you
he simply needs to Chronos on you (did someone mentioned he can evade chronos? give a better reason please, a LAN host or not doesn't show any sense how you can evade a chronos ) yawn.gif
an average player will only responds (from a sudden attack from AM) right after 2-3 attacks, so u still have some time to chronos before you are dead
if his chronos fails, he also have backtrack and bash
now to make matters worst, anti mage is a melee character that relies heavily on his normal attack (since FV not a caster)

[COLOR=blue]Ya, its not easy to fight vs a good FV, AM is down by bashing skill when the game start...by the time he got basher, FV maybe already get another basher or higher agility item for more higher chance bashing tongue.gif

AM have to play smart, chk FV mana pool. Attck 1v1 when FV low on mana. Get agility item like butterfly to avoid bash, basher, vanguard/ higher HP stuff, blademail, and ya.. Book of Necro to zap FV mana always. Play well and AM might be able win FV in 1v1 mid/end game.[COLOR=blue]

now theres few scenario i can think of when an anti mage can kill a FV (with clear results)
1) FV was caught off guard by sudden attack from AM (with few bashers). He got bashed non stop and die before can cast Chronos
2) AM guinsoed FV and kill him before he can cast ulti (at least 5-6 wacks on minimum during guinsooed time )
3) AM got few heart of tarrasque and butterfly, FV cant kill him within the time AM was inside Chronos (FV damage not strong enough probably )
*
[COLOR=blue]Ya. agree with u[COLOR=blue]


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