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 Colon cancer, stage 3, To chemo, or not to chemo?

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icehart85
post Oct 4 2015, 04:49 PM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ Oct 4 2015, 04:38 PM)
The body can switch metabolism but not cancer cells. Why do you think cancer cells light like Christmas tree when given radioactive glucose solution?

With KD. You are feeding the body with ketones. Not glucose so normal cells are not starving. But cancer cells cannot use ketones. So you tell me how they going to grow?

Is like a car which can run on petrol and water. Give it anything, it can run. But a cancer cell is like car which can only run on petrol. Give it water, how is it going to run?
*
The casein study was doing the same as well. Dr Colin Campbell manage to turn cancer cells on or off by increasing casein dosage from high to low. By doing this research, he went on to find out that a whole food plant based diet is the best approach to treating most chronic diseases, including cancer. Mind you we are talking about more than 50 years of experience so his credibility is super high.

This post has been edited by icehart85: Oct 4 2015, 04:50 PM
Ramjade
post Oct 4 2015, 05:01 PM

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QUOTE(icehart85 @ Oct 4 2015, 04:49 PM)
The casein study was doing the same as well. Dr Colin Campbell manage to turn cancer cells on or off by increasing casein dosage from high to low. By doing this research, he went on to find out that a whole food plant based diet is the best approach to treating most chronic diseases, including cancer. Mind you we are talking about more than 50 years of experience so his credibility is super high.
*
The topic is about decreasing glucose. You can only decrease glucose by 2 ways, decreasing consumption and increasing usage.
Decreasing = KD, fasting
Increasing usage = exercise.

Animal protein is most likely cause by the animals we eat that are injected with growth hormone.

Besides, KD have its own usage, epilepsy, diabetes. It was originated found for epilepsy treatment and it works. If you want to go on promoting carbs to people with cancer, be my guest. This is an open forum.

The thing here is Americans eat lots of process food, very little vege and fruits compare to the men living in the jungle.
janson_kaniaz
post Oct 4 2015, 05:12 PM

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Hi TS,

I'm not here to give advice or anything, just to share my experience of having a mom with cancer.

My mom had a stage 3 breast cancer when i was in my teen and she did not make it. I wish I knew more back then about cancer but I am not sure how much research and medication have improved over the years to cure cancer.

I remember vividly the doctor told us that chemotherapy for stage 3 patients is meant to prolong his/her life, not to cure the cancer as the chances of recurring is high. It's always hard to tell people this but the chances of death in a few years is quite high for stage 3 patients. My mom made it past 4 years before the cancer came back.

This was more than 10 years back. May be things have improved but I hope you do prepare for the worst. When you are faced with the worst case scenario, you have nothing to lose, so I suggest you to try all the possible remedies out there - western or otherwise. Give her the chance to live by doing all the positive alternatives. You never know that one of them might just work.

I hope for the best for your mom. There is nothing worst than losing a mom. Treasure her while you can.

This post has been edited by janson_kaniaz: Oct 4 2015, 05:12 PM
icehart85
post Oct 4 2015, 05:26 PM

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QUOTE(janson_kaniaz @ Oct 4 2015, 05:12 PM)
Hi TS,

I'm not here to give advice or anything, just to share my experience of having a mom with cancer.

My mom had a stage 3 breast cancer when i was in my teen and she did not make it. I wish I knew more back then about cancer but I am not sure how much research and medication have improved over the years to cure cancer.

I remember vividly the doctor told us that chemotherapy for stage 3 patients is meant to prolong his/her life, not to cure the cancer as the chances of recurring is high. It's always hard to tell people this but the chances of death in a few years is quite high for stage 3 patients. My mom made it past 4 years before the cancer came back.

This was more than 10 years back. May be things have improved but I hope you do prepare for the worst. When you are faced with the worst case scenario, you have nothing to lose, so I suggest you to try all the possible remedies out there - western or otherwise. Give her the chance to live by doing all the positive alternatives. You never know that one of them might just work.

I hope for the best for your mom. There is nothing worst than losing a mom. Treasure her while you can.
*
Hey bro, deep condolences for your mom. There is nothing much to do except to prevent this from happening to your close ones again.

The best remedies out there is to eat a whole foods plant based diet. You can do more research on yourself about this. Hope you change your diet out of this. icon_rolleyes.gif
icehart85
post Oct 4 2015, 05:33 PM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ Oct 4 2015, 05:01 PM)
The topic is about decreasing glucose. You can only decrease glucose by 2 ways, decreasing consumption and increasing usage.
Decreasing = KD, fasting
Increasing usage = exercise.

Animal protein is most likely cause by the animals we eat that are injected with growth hormone.

Besides, KD have its own usage, epilepsy, diabetes. It was originated found for epilepsy treatment and it works. If you want to go on promoting carbs to people with cancer, be my guest. This is an open forum.

The thing here is Americans eat lots of process food, very little vege and fruits compare to the men living in the jungle.
*
FYI he did his research in the 1950s when the animals were not injected with growth hormones yet.

Ok but please dont forget to mention Americans eat whole lots of meat as well, please dont conveniently exclude that.

Also, please note that many medical associations are giving official statement on the vegan diet as well. Their statement should not be taken lightly and if you strongly disagree on their position, feel free to sue them:

American Dietetic Association

It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes. A vegetarian diet is associated with a lower risk of death from ischemic heart disease. Vegetarians also appear to have lower low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels, lower blood pressure, and lower rates of hypertension and type 2 diabetes than nonvegetarians. Furthermore, vegetarians tend to have a lower body mass index and lower overall cancer rates. Features of a vegetarian diet that may reduce risk of chronic disease include lower intakes of saturated fat and cholesterol and higher intakes of fruits, vegetables, whole grains, nuts, soy products, fiber, and phytochemicals.

American Heart Association

Most vegetarian diets are low in or devoid of animal products. They’re also usually lower than nonvegetarian diets in total fat, saturated fat and cholesterol. Many studies have shown that vegetarians seem to have a lower risk of obesity, coronary heart disease (which causes heart attack), high blood pressure, diabetes mellitus and some forms of cancer.

British Dietetic Association

Vegetarian diets can be nutritious and healthy. They are associated with lower risks of heart disease, high blood pressure, Type 2 diabetes, obesity, certain cancers and lower cholesterol levels. This could be because such diets are lower in saturated fat, contain fewer calories and more fibre and phytonutrients/phytochemicals (these can have protective properties) than non-vegetarian diets. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of life and have many benefits.

Dietitians of Canada

A healthy vegan diet has many health benefits including lower rates of obesity, heart disease, high blood pressure, high blood cholesterol, type 2 diabetes and certain types of cancer. A healthy vegan diet can meet all your nutrient needs at any stage of life including when you are pregnant, breastfeeding or for older adults.

The Heart and Stroke Foundation of Canada

Vegetarian diets can provide all the nutrients you need at any age, as well as some additional health benefits. Vegetarian diets often have lower levels of total fat, saturated fat and cholesterol than many meat-based diets, and higher intakes of fibre, magnesium, potassium, folate and antioxidants such as vitamins C and E. Vegetarian diets may lead to lower blood pressure, improved cholesterol levels, healthier weight and less incidence of Type 2 diabetes, all of which can reduce the risk of heart disease and stroke.

The National Health and Medical Research Council

Alternatives to animal foods include nuts, seeds, legumes, beans and tofu. For all Australians, these foods increase dietary variety and can provide a valuable, affordable source of protein and other nutrients found in meats. These foods are also particularly important for those who follow vegetarian or vegan dietary patterns. Australians following a vegetarian diet can still meet nutrient requirements if energy needs are met and the appropriate number and variety of serves from the Five Food Groups are eaten throughout the day. For those eating a vegan diet, supplementation of B12 is recommended.

The Dietitians Association of Australia

Vegan diets are a type of vegetarian diet, where only plant-based foods are eaten. They differ to other vegetarian diets in that no animal products are usually consumed or used. Despite these restrictions, with good planning it is still possible to obtain all the nutrients required for good health on a vegan diet.

The British National Health Service

With good planning and an understanding of what makes up a healthy, balanced vegan diet, you can get all the nutrients your body needs.

The British Nutrition Foundation

A balanced vegetarian or vegan diet can be nutritionally adequate ... Studies of UK vegetarian and vegan children have revealed that their growth and development are within the normal range.

The Mayo Clinic

A vegetarian diet can meet the needs of people of all ages, including children, teenagers, and pregnant or breast-feeding women. The key is to be aware of your nutritional needs so that you plan a diet that meets them.

Cleveland Clinic

There really are no disadvantages to a herbivorous diet! A plant-based diet has many health benefits, including lowering the risk for heart disease, hypertension, Type 2 diabetes, and cancer. It can also help lower cholesterol and blood pressure levels, plus maintain weight and bone health.
Ramjade
post Oct 4 2015, 05:45 PM

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QUOTE(icehart85 @ Oct 4 2015, 05:33 PM)
FYI he did his research in the 1950s when the animals were not injected with growth hormones yet.

Ok but please dont forget to mention Americans eat whole lots of meat as well, please dont conveniently exclude that.

Also, please note that many medical associations are giving official statement on the vegan diet as well. Their statement should not be taken lightly and if you strongly disagree on their position, feel free to sue them:

American Dietetic Association

It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes. A vegetarian diet is associated with a lower risk of death from ischemic heart disease. Vegetarians also appear to have lower low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels, lower blood pressure, and lower rates of hypertension and type 2 diabetes than nonvegetarians. Furthermore, vegetarians tend to have a lower body mass index and lower overall cancer rates. Features of a vegetarian diet that may reduce risk of chronic disease include lower intakes of saturated fat and cholesterol and higher intakes of fruits, vegetables, whole grains, nuts, soy products, fiber, and phytochemicals.

American Heart Association

Most vegetarian diets are low in or devoid of animal products. They’re also usually lower than nonvegetarian diets in total fat, saturated fat and cholesterol. Many studies have shown that vegetarians seem to have a lower risk of obesity, coronary heart disease (which causes heart attack), high blood pressure, diabetes mellitus and some forms of cancer.

British Dietetic Association

Vegetarian diets can be nutritious and healthy. They are associated with lower risks of heart disease, high blood pressure, Type 2 diabetes, obesity, certain cancers and lower cholesterol levels. This could be because such diets are lower in saturated fat, contain fewer calories and more fibre and phytonutrients/phytochemicals (these can have protective properties) than non-vegetarian diets. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of life and have many benefits.

Dietitians of Canada

A healthy vegan diet has many health benefits including lower rates of obesity, heart disease, high blood pressure, high blood cholesterol, type 2 diabetes and certain types of cancer. A healthy vegan diet can meet all your nutrient needs at any stage of life including when you are pregnant, breastfeeding or for older adults.

The Heart and Stroke Foundation of Canada

Vegetarian diets can provide all the nutrients you need at any age, as well as some additional health benefits. Vegetarian diets often have lower levels of total fat, saturated fat and cholesterol than many meat-based diets, and higher intakes of fibre, magnesium, potassium, folate and antioxidants such as vitamins C and E. Vegetarian diets may lead to lower blood pressure, improved cholesterol levels, healthier weight and less incidence of Type 2 diabetes, all of which can reduce the risk of heart disease and stroke.

The National Health and Medical Research Council

Alternatives to animal foods include nuts, seeds, legumes, beans and tofu. For all Australians, these foods increase dietary variety and can provide a valuable, affordable source of protein and other nutrients found in meats. These foods are also particularly important for those who follow vegetarian or vegan dietary patterns. Australians following a vegetarian diet can still meet nutrient requirements if energy needs are met and the appropriate number and variety of serves from the Five Food Groups are eaten throughout the day. For those eating a vegan diet, supplementation of B12 is recommended.

The Dietitians Association of Australia

Vegan diets are a type of vegetarian diet, where only plant-based foods are eaten. They differ to other vegetarian diets in that no animal products are usually consumed or used. Despite these restrictions, with good planning it is still possible to obtain all the nutrients required for good health on a vegan diet.

The British National Health Service

With good planning and an understanding of what makes up a healthy, balanced vegan diet, you can get all the nutrients your body needs.

The British Nutrition Foundation

A balanced vegetarian or vegan diet can be nutritionally adequate ... Studies of UK vegetarian and vegan children have revealed that their growth and development are within the normal range.

The Mayo Clinic

A vegetarian diet can meet the needs of people of all ages, including children, teenagers, and pregnant or breast-feeding women. The key is to be aware of your nutritional needs so that you plan a diet that meets them.

Cleveland Clinic

There really are no disadvantages to a herbivorous diet! A plant-based diet has many health benefits, including lowering the risk for heart disease, hypertension, Type 2 diabetes, and cancer. It can also help lower cholesterol and blood pressure levels, plus maintain weight and bone health.
*
Being true vege's not the way. One still need meat. Say 70% vege, 20% good fat, 10% meat (chicken, fish, rabbit) or eggs. Thay way, one can still go on KD, without increasing meat.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Oct 4 2015, 05:48 PM
icehart85
post Oct 4 2015, 05:48 PM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ Oct 4 2015, 05:45 PM)
Being true vege's not the way. One still need meat. Say 80% vege
*
So now you are disagreeing with the statements from all the medical associations and reputable medical clinics? How is your credibility higher than them??
Ramjade
post Oct 4 2015, 06:14 PM

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QUOTE(icehart85 @ Oct 4 2015, 05:48 PM)
So now you are disagreeing with the statements from all the medical associations and reputable medical clinics? How is your credibility higher than them??
*
No, but I prefer to think logically. Yes vegetarian people are healthier but that does not make them unable to get cancer. One needs protein in terms of vegetable protein or meat protein. That's why I put protein at 10% and veges and fruits at 70%. Best source of protein is no doubt eggs as it is complete and one can buy kampung eggs which are free of injection. Who ask one to eat one whole plate of meat products?

Today's food is all highly process someway or another. That's why there is poleo which basic is go back to nature. Eat fresh organic veges, unprocessed meat (eat those meats feed on real grass or like kampung chicken), drink raw milk. Milk once heated is bad like all the uht milk sold on the market cause high heating changes the protein structure. That's why better to get fresh milk and do your own yogurt. If you said milk is bad, Ever read of kefir? Kefir is a type of fermented milk originated from people in the himalayan where they use kefir grains to ferment goat, yak milk. Kefir is one of the most nutritious drink one can get.

Being vege is up to a person. For me I do not recommend being a true vege. Dump all junk food, process food (sausage, ham, nugget, burger) fast foos, eat more fruits and veges, less carbs, less meat (not totally zero meat) and exercise is better.

Eskimo eats lots of meat and they are fine, (their meat is not process) Mediterranean diet is one of the healthiest diet on earth and yet they still eat meat.

Native people staying the jungle are healthier than city people. They still eat meat and lots of fruits and veges. So how can you say eating meat is bad? Maybe lots of meats. But if one eats like those native people, Eskimo people (unprocessed meat), definitely is healthier.

Humans are omnivore and not pure herbivore. That's why we have canine teeth to break up meat. Moderation is the key. I have met a vegetarian guy who is overweight with big belly

My belief is one can still eat meat but if possible unprocessed meat (rabbit, ayam kg, sea fishes) and eat organic veges and fruits where applicable without forgetting good fats (olive oil, coconut oil, avocados)

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Oct 4 2015, 06:17 PM
icehart85
post Oct 4 2015, 06:40 PM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ Oct 4 2015, 06:14 PM)
No, but I prefer to think logically. Yes vegetarian people are healthier but that does not make them unable to get cancer. One needs protein in terms of vegetable protein or meat protein. That's why I put protein at 10% and veges and fruits at 70%. Best source of protein is no doubt eggs as it is complete and one can buy kampung eggs which are free of injection. Who ask one to eat one whole plate of meat products?

Today's food is all highly process someway or another. That's why there is poleo which basic is go back to nature. Eat fresh organic veges, unprocessed meat (eat those meats feed on real grass or like kampung chicken), drink raw milk. Milk once heated is bad like all the uht milk sold on the market cause high heating changes the protein structure. That's why better to get fresh milk and do your own yogurt. If you said milk is bad, Ever read of kefir? Kefir is a type of fermented milk originated from people in the himalayan where they use kefir grains to ferment goat, yak milk. Kefir is one of the most nutritious drink one can get.

Being vege is up to a person. For me I do not recommend being a true vege. Dump all junk food, process food (sausage, ham, nugget, burger) fast foos, eat more fruits and veges, less carbs, less meat (not totally zero meat) and exercise is better.

Eskimo eats lots of meat and they are fine, (their meat is not process) Mediterranean diet is one of the healthiest diet on earth and yet they still eat meat.

Native people staying the jungle are healthier than city people. They still eat meat and lots of fruits and veges. So how can you say eating meat is bad? Maybe lots of meats. But if one eats like those native people, Eskimo people (unprocessed meat), definitely is healthier.

Humans are omnivore and not pure herbivore. That's why we have canine teeth to break up meat. Moderation is the key. I have met a vegetarian guy who is overweight with big belly

My belief is one can still eat meat but if possible unprocessed meat (rabbit, ayam kg, sea fishes) and eat organic veges and fruits where applicable without forgetting good fats (olive oil, coconut oil, avocados)
*
Many things wrong with your statement. First, you did not bother to find out why medical associations are willing to publish such statements. Like you said we can get proteins from veggie so that does not justify meat consumption. When you just look at one nutrient like protein and claim that eggs are good sources, you also forgot to mention that eggs are super high in cholesterol, one or two eggs is enough to exceed our dietary cholesterol intake. You should look at the whole package as a whole, like lean meat has what else beside protein and thats when you see the other bad stuff like saturated fats, cholesterol, growth hormones, etc etc.

I have already said casein especially found in dairy contribute to cancer growth. How much more do you want me to say for you to realize this fact?

This is not a matter of personal preference. This is a matter of health and for the case in this thread a matter of life and death

Eskimos have low life expectancy. There is also evidence of atherosclerosis in their diet. Mediterranean diet is healthiest but that is also because they eat very little meat, so imagine how much better if it is none?

Humans are biologically herbivore and culturally omnivore. Even dogs and cats who are real omnivores can thrive on vegan diet, so what excuse it is for humans then? One sample from a friend of yours is not representative of the whole community. Besides you need to differentiate vegetarian and vegan. There is a very big difference mind you.

Your belief is not supported by the scientific community and clearly by medical associations and medical clinic. Either you stick with this personal belief, or you change the belief yourself but dont advise people who are really sick to go on a dangerous diet that may jeopardize their life.










janson_kaniaz
post Oct 4 2015, 07:16 PM

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Is antioxidant still useful for people with history of cancer?
Ramjade
post Oct 4 2015, 07:26 PM

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QUOTE(icehart85 @ Oct 4 2015, 06:40 PM)
Many things wrong with your statement. First, you did not bother to find out why medical associations are willing to publish such statements. Like you said we can get proteins from veggie so that does not justify meat consumption. When you just look at one nutrient like protein and claim that eggs are good sources, you also forgot to mention that eggs are super high in cholesterol, one or two eggs is enough to exceed our dietary cholesterol intake. You should look at the whole package as a whole, like lean meat has what else beside protein and thats when you see the other bad stuff like saturated fats, cholesterol, growth hormones, etc etc.

I have already said casein especially found in dairy contribute to cancer growth. How much more do you want me to say for you to realize this fact?

This is not a matter of personal preference. This is a matter of health and for the case in this thread a matter of life and death

Eskimos have low life expectancy. There is also evidence of atherosclerosis in their diet. Mediterranean diet is healthiest but that is also because they eat very little meat, so imagine how much better if it is none?

Humans are biologically herbivore and culturally omnivore. Even dogs and cats who are real omnivores can thrive on vegan diet, so what excuse it is for humans then? One sample from a friend of yours is not representative of the whole community. Besides you need to differentiate vegetarian and vegan. There is a very big difference mind you.

Your belief is not supported by the scientific community and clearly by medical associations and medical clinic. Either you stick with this personal belief, or you change the belief yourself but dont advise people who are really sick to go on a dangerous diet that may jeopardize their life.
*
First, get your facts right. Yes eggs contain lots of cholesterol but our body produces them. Dietary cholesterol contributes very little to the body's cholesterol. Go check metabolism of cholesterol. The starting unit for synthesis of cholesterol is......... Surprised glucose again? Unless one have diabetes, one should not eat more than 3 eggs a week. If one is fine, no problem. Again KD, you are not giving the body glucose. So one gives the body eggs, which is high in fat, lipid as energy source and protein. KD= metabolic fasting.

Again who ask you to eat one whole plate full of meat? Out body requires cholesterol to function. What one needs to avoid is saturated fat which one can do by removing the skin of the animals.

You were saying about kefir?
https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Ancbi...ov+kefir+cancer

They might have atherosclerosis. I didn't say that they didn't but they have low heart related diseases. You didn't answer my question regard people living in the jungle who eats meat.
Mediterranean diet is healthiest but that is also because they eat very little meat. They still eat meat and take a look at Mediterranean recipes. They still use fair amount of meat.

Biologically herbivore? Really, explain the canine teeth in humans. Dogs and cats can survive on herbivore diet? Dont make me laugh. Dogs descent from wolf's who hunt in packs. Cats are related to tiger, Lion. Do you see tiger and lion eating grass to live?

Don't advise to go on dangerous diet? I don't see you coming out with suggestions other than being pro carbs and go vege.
At least I recommend KD to decrease glucose availability to the cancer cells. You can check out if KD have any side effects. If one have insulin, there will not be any side effects. KD have been around since 1920 and have been shown to have no side effects. It have been shown to help alzehimer and other stuff.

Turmeric, broccoli, carrots, garlic, white tea are all food which can kill cells naturally. I don't see you coming out with suggestions of food.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Oct 4 2015, 07:27 PM
icehart85
post Oct 4 2015, 07:59 PM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ Oct 4 2015, 07:26 PM)
First, get your facts right. Yes eggs contain lots of cholesterol but our body produces them. Dietary cholesterol contributes very little to the body's cholesterol. Go check metabolism of cholesterol. The starting unit for synthesis of cholesterol is......... Surprised glucose again? Unless one have diabetes, one should not eat more than 3 eggs a week. If one is fine, no problem. Again KD, you are not giving the body glucose. So one gives the body eggs, which is high in fat, lipid as energy source and protein. KD= metabolic fasting.

Again who ask you to eat one whole plate full of meat? Out body requires cholesterol to function. What one needs to avoid is saturated fat which one can do by removing the skin of the animals.

You were saying about kefir?
https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Ancbi...ov+kefir+cancer

They might have atherosclerosis. I didn't say that they didn't but they have low heart related diseases. You didn't answer my question regard people living in the jungle who eats meat.
Mediterranean diet is healthiest but that is also because they eat very little meat. They still eat meat and take a look at Mediterranean recipes. They still use fair amount of meat.

Biologically herbivore? Really, explain the canine teeth in humans. Dogs and cats can survive on herbivore diet? Dont make me laugh. Dogs descent from wolf's who hunt in packs. Cats are related to tiger, Lion. Do you see tiger and lion eating grass to live?

Don't advise to go on dangerous diet? I don't see you coming out with suggestions other than being pro carbs and go vege.
At least I recommend KD to decrease glucose availability to the cancer cells. You can check out if KD have any side effects. If one have insulin, there will not be any side effects. KD have been around since 1920 and have been shown to have no side effects. It have been shown to help alzehimer and other stuff.

Turmeric, broccoli,  carrots, garlic, white tea are all food which can kill cells naturally. I don't see you coming out with suggestions of food.
*
First off how different are your ketogenic diet from the Atkins diet? To me its basically the same. Remember Robert Atkins has a long history of heart diseases. Now if this is not an indicator of practising what you preach then I dunno what else is.

QUOTE
The Medical Examiner's report had a hand-written note that Atkins had a history of myocardial infarction (heart attack), congestive heart failure, and hypertension (written "h/o MI, CHF, HTN"). The above Committee made much of this and began the rumor that Atkins had "died of his own diet".
sos
Healthy you say? I dont think so.

You are the one who should get your facts right. I am now questioning where you get your source of info. Please dont tell me its from bodybuilding websites and random blogs or equivalent. By denying that cholesterol and fats are associated with heart disease you are fighting against science itself because overwhelming research has concluded this as a fact. Its called the lipids hypothesis and so many top scientist and doctors are accepting that as a fact.

Now you are contradicting yourself by saying ohh eggs can be eaten generously but how does that fit into your 70-80% plants food profile? Also if eggs is so healthy and fits the lipid and cholesterol profile why should diabetic patients not eat more than 3 days a week? Hey eggs dont have sugars so what is raising their blood sugar levels????? rclxub.gif By the way glucose is the main source of fuel of the body, you cant lived off fats but not for long because ketones is toxic to the body. Ever wonder why nobody can last in ketogenic diet? Because their body is out of whack that they have to stop.

Intuits have low heart diseases because they die young?? Duhhh? Who's to know that they dies of heart disease when they dont have good hospital at their disposal??? What type of tribes in the jungle eats lots of meat? Can you list them? Mediterranean diet today is not what it used to be today. That is why you see heart disease and other epidemics soaring in the region there.

Canine teeth is for omnivores you say? Explain why there is canine teeth in herbivores as well. Dont believe me? Look it up. One of the longest living dog is a vegan. Please explain why they can live so long.....

I do not recommend more because the diet is easy. To be more specific eat high carb low fat and low protein plant based diet in 80/10/10 ratio or better. The more carbs the better. What veggies? The more variety the better because plants itself has high nutrients, vitamins and antioxidants so you cant go wrong with any of them.



Ramjade
post Oct 4 2015, 08:43 PM

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QUOTE(icehart85 @ Oct 4 2015, 07:59 PM)
First off how different are your ketogenic diet from the Atkins diet? To me its basically the same. Remember Robert Atkins has a long history of heart diseases. Now if this is not an indicator of practising what you preach then I dunno what else is.
Healthy you say? I dont think so.

You are the one who should get your facts right. I am now questioning where you get your source of info. Please dont tell me its from bodybuilding websites and random blogs or equivalent. By denying that cholesterol and fats are associated with heart disease you are fighting against science itself because overwhelming research has concluded this as a fact. Its called the lipids hypothesis and so many top scientist and doctors are accepting that as a fact.

Now you are contradicting yourself by saying ohh eggs can be eaten generously but how does that fit into your 70-80% plants food profile? Also if eggs is so healthy and fits the lipid and cholesterol profile why should diabetic patients not eat more than 3 days a week? Hey eggs dont have sugars so what is raising their blood sugar levels?????  rclxub.gif By the way glucose is the main source of fuel of the body, you cant lived off fats but not for long because ketones is toxic to the body. Ever wonder why nobody can last in ketogenic diet? Because their body is out of whack that they have to stop.

Intuits have low heart diseases because they die young?? Duhhh? Who's to know that they dies of heart disease when they dont have good hospital at their disposal??? What type of tribes in the jungle eats lots of meat? Can you list them? Mediterranean diet today is not what it used to be today. That is why you see heart disease and other epidemics soaring in the region there.

Canine teeth is for omnivores you say? Explain why there is canine teeth in herbivores as well. Dont believe me? Look it up. One of the longest living dog is a vegan. Please explain why they can live so long.....

I do not recommend more because the diet is easy. To be more specific eat high carb low fat and low protein plant based diet in 80/10/10 ratio or better. The more carbs the better. What veggies? The more variety the better because plants itself has high nutrients, vitamins and antioxidants so you cant go wrong with any of them.
*
Ok, you gave yours, I gave mine. Now I have a question to ask, how does your high carbs diet help to combat cancer? At least I gave how KD works on cancer. How does your high carbs help?

Here you go for the egg answer.
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditi...ol/faq-20058468
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/eggs/

What I am saying, is since a person does not eat carbs, the fat in the eggs will be used up as energy source. so none will be stored. Yes, glucose is the body's main fuel so is cancer's main fuel. Why glucose is main fuel is because it is easier to use compare to fat, but the body can adept. You can search up ketones bodies on brian. However the body can use other sources of fuel. Ever wonder why those people fasting 40+ days still can survive?
Let me tell you, our body have glycogen. So if one fast, glycogen will be used up first. Then next will be protein. But that is short while only. After that it switch to fat.
Ketosis is only dangerous if one does Not have insulin like in diabetic mellitus type 1.

QUOTE
Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition
BioMed Central
Metabolic Effects of the Very-Low-Carbohydrate Diets: Misunderstood "Villains" of Human Metabolism
Anssi H Manninen

Additional article information

Abstract
During very low carbohydrate intake, the regulated and controlled production of ketone bodies causes a harmless physiological state known as dietary ketosis. Ketone bodies flow from the liver to extra-hepatic tissues (e.g., brain) for use as a fuel; this spares glucose metabolism via a mechanism similar to the sparing of glucose by oxidation of fatty acids as an alternative fuel. In comparison with glucose, the ketone bodies are actually a very good respiratory fuel. Indeed, there is no clear requirement for dietary carbohydrates for human adults. Interestingly, the effects of ketone body metabolism suggest that mild ketosis may offer therapeutic potential in a variety of different common and rare disease states. Also, the recent landmark study showed that a very-low-carbohydrate diet resulted in a significant reduction in fat mass and a concomitant increase in lean body mass in normal-weight men. Contrary to popular belief, insulin is not needed for glucose uptake and utilization in man. Finally, both muscle fat and carbohydrate burn in an amino acid flame.

Keywords: low-carbohydrate diets, ketogenic diets, ketogenesis, ketosis, diabetic ketoacidosis, ketone bodies, gluconeogenesis, insulin, glucagon, carbohydrate recommendations, glucose utilization, glucose transporters, fatty acids
Regarding Eskimo diet
http://www.researchgate.net/publication/10...is_the_evidence
What I am saying is people living in the jungle still eat meat. They are not 100% vegetarian.

Do you see tiger and lion eating grass as food? Maybe you got a point there. But in nature, dogs, cats do not live on vegan diet. Herbivores do not generally have canine tooth.

My suggestion is do not give up meat completely. Replace the carbs with fat. You are not giving the cancer cells glucose hence only 10% fruits as fruits generally are high in sugar.
60% veges, 10% fruits, 20% good fat, 10% protein (white unprocessed meat or soya protein)

Come tell me how your high carb diet can help? High vege, I agreed with you. But not high carbs.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Oct 4 2015, 08:59 PM
icehart85
post Oct 4 2015, 09:22 PM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ Oct 4 2015, 08:43 PM)
Ok, you gave yours, I gave mine. Now I have a question to ask, how does your high carbs diet help to combat cancer? At least I gave how KD works on cancer. How does your high carbs help?

Here you go for the egg answer.
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditi...ol/faq-20058468
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/eggs/

What I am saying, is since a person does not eat carbs, the fat in the eggs will be used up as energy source. so none will be stored. Yes, glucose is the body's main fuel so is cancer's main fuel. Why glucose is main fuel is because it is easier to use compare to fat, but the body can adept. You can search up ketones bodies on brian. However the body can use other sources of fuel. Ever wonder why those people fasting 40+ days still can survive?
Let me tell you, our body have glycogen. So if one fast, glycogen will be used up first. Then next will be protein. But that is short while only. After that it switch to fat.
Ketosis is only dangerous if one does Not have insulin like in diabetic mellitus type 1.
Regarding Eskimo diet
http://www.researchgate.net/publication/10...is_the_evidence
What I am saying is people living in the jungle still eat meat. They are not 100% vegetarian.

Do you see tiger and lion eating grass as food? Maybe you got a point there. But in nature, dogs, cats do not live on vegan diet. Herbivores do not generally have canine tooth.

My suggestion is do not give up meat completely. Replace the carbs with fat. You are not giving the cancer cells glucose hence only 10% fruits as fruits generally are high in sugar.
60% veges, 10% fruits, 20% good fat, 10% protein (white unprocessed meat or soya protein)

Come tell me how your high carb diet can help? High vege, I agreed with you. But not high carbs.
*
To answer you basically, its because you dont eat the food that fuel cancer cells. Cancer cells feed on animal proteins and fats. By eliminating this, you are eliminating cancer fuel source and slowly weakening the cells allowing your immune system to fight the cancer cells naturally. Look at how different your theory is compared to mine. For every study you source, I can find another one that goes against your theory. This goes the same to me as well. To boost these effect its better to eat more veggies so that you have more antioxidants and vitamins to boost up your immune system.

By the way, you did not answer why diabetes patient only can eat 3 eggs but not more.

Dogs and cats are as natural as us living on houses. THey have been domesticated. They are so different than the tiger and lions now. But they still have the carnivorous instinct and yeah they are carnivores but again you are not answering the question, why can they live long in vegan diet. If omnivore can live long like this, why cannot humans do the same?

I have seen more than 100 vegans thrive on this diet. I am part of that as well. We are not talking about just 1-2 years. The longest vegan that I have met has been vegan for 15 years. And he has a perfect blood test result. Using your theory, he would have died of cancer and diabetes by now because he is on a high carb diet. And this is not just one. I have so many countless friends that are thriving on this diet. Please explain why your theory is not working on them?

I am not trying to convince you here, as I realized this is a futile effort. It is unfortunate that you are on a different side because you will have learnt more nutrition knowledge on my side.....Let TS make a sound judgement and see which one he goes for.


danny_sp15
post Oct 4 2015, 10:44 PM

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Chemo has side effects. cancer also has effects, which is death. Cancer is not going to go away on its own. It's not like flu.

the issue to chemo or not only arises when u are pretty sure the chemo is not going to help or very small chance, and u rather see ur loved ones live the remainder of their lives as best as they could.
Ramjade
post Oct 4 2015, 10:51 PM

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QUOTE(icehart85 @ Oct 4 2015, 09:22 PM)
To answer you basically, its because you dont eat the food that fuel cancer cells. Cancer cells feed on animal proteins and fats. By eliminating this, you are eliminating cancer fuel source and slowly weakening the cells allowing your immune system to fight the cancer cells naturally. Look at how different your theory is compared to mine. For every study you source, I can find another one that goes against your theory. This goes the same to me as well. To boost these effect its better to eat more veggies so that you have more antioxidants and vitamins to boost up your immune system.

By the way, you did not answer why diabetes patient only can eat 3 eggs but not more.

Dogs and cats are as natural as us living on houses. THey have been domesticated. They are so different than the tiger and lions now. But they still have the carnivorous instinct and yeah they are carnivores but again you are not answering the question, why can they live long in vegan diet. If omnivore can live long like this, why cannot humans do the same?

I have seen more than 100 vegans thrive on this diet. I am part of that as well. We are not talking about just 1-2 years. The longest vegan that I have met has been vegan for 15 years. And he has a perfect blood test result. Using your theory, he would have died of cancer and diabetes by now because he is on a high carb diet. And this is not just one. I have so many countless friends that are thriving on this diet. Please explain why your theory is not working on them?

I am not trying to convince you here, as I realized this is a futile effort. It is unfortunate that you are on a different side because you will have learnt more nutrition knowledge on my side.....Let TS make a sound judgement and see which one he goes for.
*
Er, where you get the info they feed on fat? I already showed you evidence that they use glucose (radioactive marker, impaired metabolism). Please show some evidence except that milk protein. Again like I said good fat extra virgin olive oil, avocado, coconut oil. Not saturated fats or deep fried food (vegetable oil on its own like palm contains high Omega 6- inflammatory inducing)

Diabetes have trouble with fats. Decreased insulin resistance due to too much insulin. Insulin is secreted once blood glucose increases. Overtime, it causes the cell to become insensitive to insulin. There's is a study which shows ketogenic diet is better compare to low gi food. Again KD = metabolic fasting. You are not adding glucose into your blood, so whatever glucose in your body will decrease overtime.

Well you can always give it a try be 100% vege (I am assuming you are one?). But like in your previous post, someone mentioned people who are strict vegetarian will get vitb12 deficiency as vitb12 only comes from red meat. Like I said, who ask one to eat one whole plate of meat? That's too much. Eat more veges, but eat a little meat.

Regarding your friend, list out the protocol of 80/10/10. Eg what constitute the 80/10/10. Second how often does your friend exercise? Third, what kind carbs - white rice, potatoes? Fourth, ask him or her go check the teeth with dentist and tell me the results. How does it make sense 80/10/10 have high veges when 80% is carbs? Diabetes - gene, lifestyle (food and exercise). Cancer - genes, environmental, stress, lifestyle, infections. Like you said, high vegetarian diet keep those at bay. But not more carbs. That's a reason why we have GI on food. GI here indicates how fast a particular food rises the blood glucose.

I am open to new knowledge. I agreed with you on vegetarian diet. But I do not agree with the fact about high carbs. High carbs here should be exchanged with oil to force the body to use oil. Good oil here. So the food better be steamed, boiled or oven grilled/stirred fried. And if you want to get stuff into the body one needs fat. Like curcumin in turmeric, beta-carotene in carrots, green vege, lycopropene in tomatoes. Curcumin is a very potent cancer killing substance. Unfortunately, it only dissolves in fat.

My way is very simple. Combination of the basics of poleo, KD, Mediterranean diet.
High vegetables, low carbs, moderate fat (fat here is to replaced the carbs), enough protein. Add in few cancer killing plants.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Oct 4 2015, 10:53 PM
leanneleong
post Oct 4 2015, 11:34 PM

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Joined: Oct 2015


Hi,

My friend saw your post and he forwarded it to me today. I hope it is still not too late to help.

Have you ever heard about Transfer Factors? The cancer patients around the people I know have benefited from it, either have the cancer under controlled, shrunken or even achieve remission, in another word, cancer free. I have shared some of the stories on this page: www.facebook.com/TFCancer and also attached a document with stories from cancer patients around the world who have benefited from Transfer Factors for your reference. You can also find all the information and clinical studies about Transfer Factors on the page that I mentioned to you. Human body's own immune system actually has the capability to fight the cancer cells. Transfer Factors has been clinically proven to be able to boost our body's immune system and increase Natural Killer Cell activity to kill live cancer cells. It is proven to be effectively improve survival rates of cancer patients. It is safe to consume as it is natural, not a vitamin, mineral, enzyme, herb, colostrum drug, fiber, steroid or hormone.

As you know chemo greatly weaken the immune system. Not many people can stand the side effects, in fact many patients died because of this. If your mom wants to go for chemo, please let her on Transfer Factors, so that the side effects can be reduced. As Transfer Factors are able to strengthen body's immune system, it is able to protect chemo patient's body from opportunistic infections. Transfer Factors are also able to help patients who have done the surgery to get well faster.

I am not a doctor, but my cousin sister died of breast cancer and I saw how bad was the chemo impact on her. She couldn't survive as her body was too weak. I couldn't remember how many times she was in critical situation due to bad infections. I really hope your mom can be one of the miracle cases that I have heard about and happened around the people whom I know.

I know doctors who have recommended Transfer Factors to their cancer patients and have had many success cases. I can get you and your mom to speak to one of them. Please, I sincerely ask you, get a second opinion from doctors who believe in alternate medicine and natural supplementation. You wouldn't regret, I assure you.

Call or whatsapp me at 012-6951135 if you are open to learn more.

Regards
Leanne

This post has been edited by leanneleong: Oct 4 2015, 11:37 PM


Attached File(s)
Attached File  TF_Testimonials.pdf ( 1.01mb ) Number of downloads: 57
SUSslimey
post Oct 5 2015, 12:06 AM


*******
Senior Member
6,914 posts

Joined: Apr 2007
QUOTE(leanneleong @ Oct 4 2015, 11:34 PM)
Hi,

My friend saw your post and he forwarded it to me today. I hope it is still not too late to help.

Have you ever heard about Transfer Factors? The cancer patients around the people I know have benefited from it, either have the cancer under controlled, shrunken or even achieve remission, in another word, cancer free. I have shared some of the stories on this page: www.facebook.com/TFCancer and also attached a document with stories from cancer patients around the world who have benefited from Transfer Factors for your reference. You can also find all the information and clinical studies about Transfer Factors on the page that I mentioned to you. Human body's own immune system actually has the capability to fight the cancer cells. Transfer Factors has been clinically proven to be able to boost our body's immune system and increase Natural Killer Cell activity to kill live cancer cells. It is proven to be effectively improve survival rates of cancer patients. It is safe to consume as it is natural, not a vitamin, mineral, enzyme, herb, colostrum drug, fiber, steroid or hormone.

As you know chemo greatly weaken the immune system. Not many people can stand the side effects, in fact many patients died because of this. If your mom wants to go for chemo, please let her on Transfer Factors, so that the side effects can be reduced. As Transfer Factors are able to strengthen body's immune system, it is able to protect chemo patient's body from opportunistic infections. Transfer Factors are also able to help patients who have done the surgery to get well faster.

I am not a doctor, but my cousin sister died of breast cancer and I saw how bad was the chemo impact on her. She couldn't survive as her body was too weak. I couldn't remember how many times she was in critical situation due to bad infections. I really hope your mom can be one of the miracle cases that I have heard about and happened around the people whom I know.

I know doctors who have recommended Transfer Factors to their cancer patients and have had many success cases. I can get you and your mom to speak to one of them. Please, I sincerely ask you, get a second opinion from doctors who believe in alternate medicine and natural supplementation. You wouldn't regret, I assure you.

Call or whatsapp me at 012-6951135 if you are open to learn more.

Regards
Leanne
*
a word of caution :
currently the scientific evidence is insufficient to say whether transfer factor is helpful
http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/...ansfer%20factor

also, i have been searching for the " clinically proven to be able to boost our body's immune system and increase Natural Killer Cell activity "
i search high and low and this is what i found :

Provides powerful immune system support*
• Stimulates Natural Killer (NK) cell activity by 437%*†
• Supports the immune system's natural ability to recognize, respond to,
and remember potential health threats*
• Provides concentrated, certified 4Life Transfer Factor®
• Now 25% more concentrated*

notice the * behind each sentence.........
then i look down : *THESE STATEMENTS HAVE NOT BEEN EVALUATED BY THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION. THESE PRODUCTS ARE NOT INTENDED TO DIAGNOSE, TREAT, CURE, OR PREVENT ANY DISEASE
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&es...uzOCUuvE1AIJKLg


icehart85
post Oct 5 2015, 12:24 AM

Enthusiast
*****
Senior Member
874 posts

Joined: Sep 2007
QUOTE(Ramjade @ Oct 4 2015, 10:51 PM)
Er, where you get the info they feed on fat? I already showed you evidence that they use glucose (radioactive marker, impaired metabolism). Please show some evidence except that milk protein. Again like I said good fat extra virgin olive oil, avocado, coconut oil. Not saturated fats or deep fried food (vegetable oil on its own like palm contains high Omega 6- inflammatory inducing)

Diabetes have trouble with fats. Decreased insulin resistance due to too much insulin. Insulin is secreted once blood glucose increases. Overtime,  it causes the cell to become insensitive to insulin. There's is a study which shows ketogenic diet is better compare to low gi food. Again KD = metabolic fasting. You are not adding glucose into your blood, so whatever glucose in your body will decrease overtime.

Well you can always give it a try be 100% vege (I am assuming you are one?). But like in your previous post, someone mentioned people who are strict vegetarian will get vitb12 deficiency as vitb12 only comes from red meat. Like I said, who ask one to eat one whole plate of meat? That's too much. Eat more veges, but eat a little meat.

Regarding your friend, list out the protocol of 80/10/10. Eg what constitute the 80/10/10. Second how often does your friend exercise? Third, what kind carbs - white rice,  potatoes? Fourth, ask him or her go check the teeth with dentist and tell me the results. How does it make sense 80/10/10 have high veges when 80% is carbs? Diabetes - gene, lifestyle (food and exercise). Cancer - genes, environmental, stress, lifestyle, infections. Like you said, high vegetarian diet keep those at bay. But not more carbs. That's a reason why we have GI on food. GI here indicates how fast a particular food rises the blood glucose.

I am open to new knowledge. I agreed with you on vegetarian diet. But I do not agree with the fact about high carbs. High carbs here should be exchanged with oil to force the body to use oil. Good oil here. So the food better be steamed, boiled or oven grilled/stirred fried. And if you want to get stuff into the body one needs fat. Like curcumin in turmeric, beta-carotene in carrots, green vege, lycopropene in tomatoes. Curcumin is a very potent cancer killing substance. Unfortunately, it only dissolves in fat.

My way is very simple. Combination of the basics of poleo, KD, Mediterranean diet.
High vegetables, low carbs, moderate fat (fat here is to replaced the carbs), enough protein. Add in few cancer killing plants.
*
Here's two article showing how cancer feed on cholesterol and the other on methionine:

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


And here is the article showing how you can reverse cancer cells through diet:

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


There you have it, you admit diabetes have problems with fat. My study also says the same. Its the fats inside the cell that is preventing the insulin to react with glucose so that glucose can enter the cells and not get stuck in the blood. Again the cure was this is to limit your fat intake not by eating more keto diet high in fats and proteins. Again our conclusion differ on this one...

Vitamin B12 affects all people regardless of their diet. Vegetarians and vegans may have more deficiency but ultimately all people will have that as they age. In fact it is good to know this earlier because early supplementation would eliminate the harm before its too late.

80% carbs 10% fats 10% protein though you can go even go higher % of carbs than that. He exercise occasionally not too much just within the average of 2-3 times per week. What carbs is not a problem as long as he gets the daily calories of minimum 3000 a day. Tooth decay commonly comes from acidic food and that is normally found in meats and carbonated drinks. Hydration also plays a part. But there is no basis for saying high carb food contribute to tooth decay. Maybe you can provide the study so that I can have a look and learn more about it. It doesnt need to be high veggies because you are getting enough fiber and nutrients from the carbs, yes carbs are not empty calories like you thought it is. Also when eating rice and potatoes normally you have other dishes with you as well and thats where the veggie portion comes from. GI is a measure of how fast the carbs is converted to glucose in the blood. It doesnt matter anyway because on a healthy body your blood sugar will spike but after a while it will come down. Only diabetic patients have problems where their blood sugar remain high because the lipids in the cells block glucose absorption and insulin.

I do not agree on your diet where high fats and proteins is your caloric source. In fact, I can say that your diet is the worse off than a balanced diet because you eat more proportion in animal proteins and fats. Unless you are calorie restricting which is certainly unsustainable. When you consume food you are taking in the whole package, not just protein alone or fats alone but a combination of whole lots of different things. And when taken together you are also intaking lots of risk factors for commone diseases as well. I will just list one or two articles here but you get the idea:

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «



» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

Ramjade
post Oct 5 2015, 12:24 AM

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Joined: Feb 2011


QUOTE(slimey @ Oct 5 2015, 12:06 AM)
a word of caution :
currently the scientific evidence is insufficient to say whether transfer factor is helpful
http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/...ansfer%20factor

also, i have been searching for the " clinically proven to be able to boost our body's immune system and increase Natural Killer Cell activity "
i search high and low and this is what i found :

Provides powerful immune system support*
• Stimulates Natural Killer (NK) cell activity by 437%*†
• Supports the immune system's natural ability to recognize, respond to,
and remember potential health threats*
• Provides concentrated, certified 4Life Transfer Factor®
• Now 25% more concentrated*

notice the * behind each sentence.........
then i look down : *THESE STATEMENTS HAVE NOT BEEN EVALUATED BY THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION. THESE PRODUCTS ARE NOT INTENDED TO DIAGNOSE, TREAT, CURE, OR PREVENT ANY DISEASE
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&es...uzOCUuvE1AIJKLg
*
Actually is because they don't have the funds to run clinical trial. So have to put that to avoid getting sue by some companies. Supplements like grape seed extract, fish oil carry such words too despite so many clinical trials done on that.

Best evidence is see ncbi.nlm.nih.gov.

There are other ways to increase NK cells too, IP-6, AHCC are some ways. Transfer factors smell to me of MLM companies. Broccoli sprouts, turmeric, white tea, grape skin and seeds are potent anti-cancer substances.

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