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 Colon cancer, stage 3, To chemo, or not to chemo?

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Ramjade
post Oct 2 2015, 10:04 PM

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QUOTE(kent_lau7 @ Oct 2 2015, 09:11 PM)
I believe in natural therapy. The western method is not healing, it is just prolonging life to another few months while asking patient to suffer and pay huge amount for prolong few months life.
For healing to take place, the human body has the ability to heal itself.

Watch out what one eat. It is what you eat and what emotion you accept that cause disease - (dis -ease)

That is what I believe.
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What do you recommend? Would likr to hear your opinion.
Ramjade
post Oct 2 2015, 10:15 PM

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QUOTE(iimcrystal @ Oct 2 2015, 04:00 PM)
Hi everyone biggrin.gif

So my mom was diagnosed with mucus pass in the ovaries during 1st week of july 2p15
Took her to the hospital, HUKM/UKM at selangor
and clean the stomach from the mucus pass and removed the "exploded" ovary(total of 2 surgeries)
Rested in the hospital for 1 week
And was sent home to rest for 3 week while waiting for the report on the medical research of the ovray to detect any cancer
Good news is that there's none
Bad new.....

After 3 week, near the 1st week of August
My mom felt a pain in the stomach
And she drive to the hospital @ Pantai for check up
And my dad got a call from her asking him to visit her

So he bring me and my sibling to visit her to know what happened
And my mom was looking dreadful, face green, weak body
My aunts visited
And the doctor said she need to undergo surgery ASAP
My aunt asked why(i wss at home while they stayed back)
The doctor does not gave a solid reason
And while my mom was resting
One of the nurses was talking about packages promotion on surgeries (WTF man? Patient ady sakit kuat kuat lagi bagi promo?l
My aunt just scolded her and hurriedly sent my mom back to ukm

And ukm checked and they feared that it might be cancer and started surgeries(3rd surgeries)
And is was cancer, Colon cancer / bowel cancer (sorry got mixed up, gonna reread the report when i get my hand on it)

The doctor removed the entire big intestine and make a hole on her stomach and put the small intestine as a new excretion system with a donut bag(a bag with a hole that shaped like a donut for the small intestine to excrete)

And after a month, my mom lost 30kg in a span of 2 month
But she been eating healthy(fish, rice, white noodles, vege, acidic fruit[lemon & orange from what i saw])
and we received the report
And the doctor suggested doing chemotherapy

But with my mom condition  of losing body fats, 4 pint of blood lost during the surgeries, and she has a bad case of depression/lack of moods

I honestly don't think she should take chemotherapy

But i don't know what else to do to help her sad.gif
Anyone know what else to do beside doing chemotherapy?
I heard the sideeffect is terrible and dangerous
Anyone has these kind of experience?
I feel really insecure and helpless and worried about my mom mental well being.

Sorry for the long posts sweat.gif
Just thought it best to write out everything incase of specific information needed :sweats:
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I don't recommend. There are stuff which you can help your mother. Get her metformin from nearest pharmacy. Is very cheap. It won't cure but it will help her. Put her on diabetic dosage. You can find info online.

After that switch to ketogenic diet. Must really have no carbs (potato, rice, mee). Drink lots of white tea+turmeric+black pepper+virgin coconut oil tea+lemon Do not drink water. Drink that instead. Go buy books on ketogenic diet recipe. Coconut oil, extra virgin olive oil, eggs will be your friend here

Vegetables, put lots of raw garlic and eat lots of broccoli. Do not go for chicken. Go for white fish, tofu, eggs, no sugar.

Juice anti cancer vegetables like broccoli, capsicum and drink regularly with the tea.

The above are some ways to beat cancer. Must make sure eat enough.

The western world is cut, burn and poison.

Ramjade
post Oct 3 2015, 08:24 AM

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QUOTE(sportivo @ Oct 3 2015, 01:22 AM)
if you think stem cell is a scam.....
why President Barrack Obama approved feds funding for stem cell research in 2009?
http://stemcells.nih.gov/policy/Pages/Default.aspx
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Is still under research. Early stage. I rather go for proven stuff like lingzhi and stuff which can increase the body defence mechanism. Beside such prodouct you are selling is way over priced. RM6xxx-Rm8xxx per set. Better I go buy lingzhi. Not so expensive and can get a few kg with that kind of money. One can easily get lingzhi instead of paying RM6xxx-RM8xxxx from mountainrose from the US.
Ramjade
post Oct 3 2015, 08:32 AM

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QUOTE(BryanKek @ Oct 3 2015, 02:19 AM)
With treatment, Stage 3 got approximately about 40-80% survival rate depending on the sub stage. Ask your doctor about the exact staging and the expected 5 year survival rate for your mom before making any decision. Anyone can have colorectal cancer regardless of whether you are "healthy" or not. The key to successful cancer treatment is always early detection. Anyone over the age of 50(men especially) should go for annual colonoscopy to detect precancerous or cancerous lesions.

tldr;
Without chemo, confirm die, just a matter of when. Confirm suffer from cancer complications.(not only related to bowel, cancer can spread to other organs and cause other problems as well)
With chemo, might survive(ask the exact percentages from her doctor), might die, confirm suffer from side effects of chemo.

Consider these before making decision. And let your mother choose, she is the one that needs to choose whether she wants to fight or not.

edit: Regarding the earlier posts about metformin, bring it up to her doctor, metformin helps in prevention and also helps in therapy, but no conclusive evidence yet. Metformin has side effects too so don't simply give. Don't have negative perception about "western" medicine. There is no such thing as "western" or other kinds of medicine, there is only evidence based medicine. All treatments that the doctors suggest you mom is backed by the cumulative years of research by researchers all over the world.
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You can check out, meta-analyis of metformin (they look through 10k+ journals to look for evidence). Only side effect is drop in vitB12 which can be easily replaced by vitb12 from pharmacy. The dosage used in clinical studies are the dosage used by diabetic patients.

Metformin have been on the market for a long time. Almost ~40 years+. If is bad, it would be pull from the market. One need to think that drugs from companies are profit-driven. They need to get their money back and they cannot get their money back from natural stuff. Metformin is cheap compare to other cancer drugs. Hence no "official use" for it in cancer. So of cause Again like I said, metformin won't cure but it will help. Most oncology doctors won't know about this. All they know is cut, burn and poison. Try asking asnd see. I can bet with you they do not know metformin can be used.


This post has been edited by Ramjade: Oct 5 2015, 06:06 AM
Ramjade
post Oct 3 2015, 12:05 PM

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QUOTE(Tham @ Oct 3 2015, 11:57 AM)
That's true. Most doctors, including oncologists, don't know that metformin
is a cancer fighter.

My GP schoolmate in Klinik Maluri, Cheras, looked a bit puzzled when I told
him that metformin would have been the first drug I would put my elder brother
on, had I known about his lung cancer early this year.
The oncologist is just familiar with the drugs he was taught in medical school.

He won't have time to dig up the many studies on Medline on metformin
and other common drugs, like Zentel and Vermox, meant for worms which
are also powerful cancer fighters, or Celebrex, which has some 2,000 studies
on Medline against cancer.

If you have colon cancer, he will give you the first line chemotherapy
regimen - cisplatin/carboplatin/oxaliplatin and 5-FU, or some of the
newer derivatives like Tegafur and S-1.

He certainly won't tell you to go to your friendly pharmacy near your house
and buy metformin at 10 cents a tablet.
Unless you have kidney or liver problems, metformin is usually
quite a safe drug at moderate diabetic doses, say 500 mg twice daily.
Metformin: a potential therapeutic agent for recurrent colon cancer.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3896365/
Anti-inflammatory mechanism of metformin and its effects in
intestinal inflammation and colitis-associated colon cancer.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24716225/
Cancer therapy targeting cancer stem cells. 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24597346
Metformin in cancer prevention and therapy.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4200668/
Therapeutic strategies targeting cancer stem cells.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3667868/
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Any else you will recommend? Would like to know your recommendation. Diet, other drugs, etc...
Ramjade
post Oct 4 2015, 05:08 AM

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QUOTE(philipskardon @ Oct 4 2015, 02:21 AM)
U probably have not checked with the oncologist yet. Have a chat and find out how many sessions suggested. That will give you a time frame on how long long the perceived "suffering" is. Every individual reacts differently.

Once you hear the oncology out.. Then comes the hard decisions. Honestly... What other options do u have?

Regardless of your options, Diet changes as suggested by others gives you a piece of mind and hope.. But don't totally go vegan. Great if you can do it but no scientific proof. Supplements, anything that might induce hormonal changes should be avoided. Obviously you will never know specifically which may do so... 

Most important.. Stay positive, clean environment and try to be happy
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There is. Look at it this way. Ketogenic diet helps. How? Cancer cells are mutated cells which make them able to survive on very basic metabolism aka glucose aka carbs. But our body can adept to various ways of metabolism. Using ketone bodies for one. But then again, most Malaysians won't give up their rice, bread, biscuits. The body does not need glucose to survive as it can adept! Once one starts ketogenic diet, there's no turning back. One should drop all fast food, (mcd, KFC, dominos, pizza, Maggie, etc)

Cancer is complex so must be our tools.. One is ketogenic diet to starve the cancer cells but not your own cells. Another one is too kill them. That's where broccoli, turmeric, garlic, capsicum, carrots (high amount until one turns orange), white tea comes in (white tea contains higher egcg than green tea). metformin. The third one would be to increase the immune system to eradicate the cancer cells (increase the NK cells of the body)

So if you feed the body with nothing but potent cancer killing stuff, want or not, the starving cancer cells (ketogenic diet) will take those things in. Cancer develop over time and not overnight. So the healing won't be instant. It will take a while. Need to be patient.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Oct 4 2015, 05:26 AM
Ramjade
post Oct 4 2015, 04:04 PM

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QUOTE(icehart85 @ Oct 4 2015, 03:41 PM)
Holy fark, you have the balls to promote keto diet to make a cancer patient even worse off.....cancer cells feed on animal proteins and your ketogenic diet is nothing more than increasing dosage of that....

And then you advocate the use of veggies to promote killing the cells, which is true but no relation to your keto diet.
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Go read metabolism of cancer. There's a guy who found out about metabolism of cancer and he won Nobel price for it. But unfortunately his studies are being pushed aside. Ketogenic diet is not giving about more animal protein. Main point about ketogenic diet is replacing your carbs with something else. It is forcing your body to utilise something other than glucose. Please get your facts right. The carbs here is replaced with oil. Cancer cells cannot use protein, oil as energy source. You can find it on medscape.


Ramjade
post Oct 4 2015, 04:30 PM

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QUOTE(icehart85 @ Oct 4 2015, 04:09 PM)
Explain this:


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Read this.
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/757713_2

QUOTE
Tumor cells exhibit elevated levels of glucose uptake, a phenomenon that has been capitalized upon for the prognostic and diagnostic imaging of a wide range of cancers using radio-labeled glucose analogs.


QUOTE
Cellular transformation is associated with the reprogramming of cellular pathways that control proliferation, survival, and metabolism. Among the metabolic changes exhibited by tumor cells is an increase in glucose metabolism and glucose dependence.


I have read your page and I see you recommend carbs. What a way. If you have read, ancient people do not have much teeth problem cause they do not eat much carbs. Once people start eating carbs, that's when teeth problem start to appear. Go lookup. A research done on ancient people.

Second look at this way, those marker for cancer uses glucose solution to carry the radioactive marker and the cancer cells sucks up glucose that's why it's able to light up like a Christmas tree.

I based my stuff on facts not YouTube videos. Anyone can dress up as a doctor and give speech on YouTube. But for sites like ncbi, medscape, you really need to be a researcher.

If you want to continue promote carbs, go ahead.
Ramjade
post Oct 4 2015, 04:37 PM

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QUOTE(icehart85 @ Oct 4 2015, 04:33 PM)
I take it that you didnt research on the doctor's history and credentials as well?  user posted image

Not good to do that when there are so many Atkins diet promoters with absolute shit credentials.
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My sources are from ncbi.nlm.nih.gov. You can read them if you want.

QUOTE
Abstract
Introduction
Abnormal cancer metabolism creates a glycolytic-dependency which can be exploited by lowering glucose availability to the tumor. The ketogenic diet (KD) is a low carbohydrate, high fat diet which decreases blood glucose and elevates blood ketones and has been shown to slow cancer progression in animals and humans.

Ramjade
post Oct 4 2015, 04:38 PM

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QUOTE(icehart85 @ Oct 4 2015, 04:33 PM)
I take it that you didnt research on the doctor's history and credentials as well?  user posted image

Not good to do that when there are so many Atkins diet promoters with absolute shit credentials.

Also how can glucose be the culprit when it is the basic nutrient that our cells, good or bad needs. You cant starve the good cells of the nutrient. That is like trying to cure a person by starving them.  doh.gif
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The body can switch metabolism but not cancer cells. Why do you think cancer cells light like Christmas tree when given radioactive glucose solution?

With KD. You are feeding the body with ketones. Not glucose so normal cells are not starving. But cancer cells cannot use ketones. So you tell me how they going to grow?

Is like a car which can run on petrol and water. Give it anything, it can run. But a cancer cell is like car which can only run on petrol. Give it water, how is it going to run?

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Oct 4 2015, 04:44 PM
Ramjade
post Oct 4 2015, 05:01 PM

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QUOTE(icehart85 @ Oct 4 2015, 04:49 PM)
The casein study was doing the same as well. Dr Colin Campbell manage to turn cancer cells on or off by increasing casein dosage from high to low. By doing this research, he went on to find out that a whole food plant based diet is the best approach to treating most chronic diseases, including cancer. Mind you we are talking about more than 50 years of experience so his credibility is super high.
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The topic is about decreasing glucose. You can only decrease glucose by 2 ways, decreasing consumption and increasing usage.
Decreasing = KD, fasting
Increasing usage = exercise.

Animal protein is most likely cause by the animals we eat that are injected with growth hormone.

Besides, KD have its own usage, epilepsy, diabetes. It was originated found for epilepsy treatment and it works. If you want to go on promoting carbs to people with cancer, be my guest. This is an open forum.

The thing here is Americans eat lots of process food, very little vege and fruits compare to the men living in the jungle.
Ramjade
post Oct 4 2015, 05:45 PM

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QUOTE(icehart85 @ Oct 4 2015, 05:33 PM)
FYI he did his research in the 1950s when the animals were not injected with growth hormones yet.

Ok but please dont forget to mention Americans eat whole lots of meat as well, please dont conveniently exclude that.

Also, please note that many medical associations are giving official statement on the vegan diet as well. Their statement should not be taken lightly and if you strongly disagree on their position, feel free to sue them:

American Dietetic Association

It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes. A vegetarian diet is associated with a lower risk of death from ischemic heart disease. Vegetarians also appear to have lower low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels, lower blood pressure, and lower rates of hypertension and type 2 diabetes than nonvegetarians. Furthermore, vegetarians tend to have a lower body mass index and lower overall cancer rates. Features of a vegetarian diet that may reduce risk of chronic disease include lower intakes of saturated fat and cholesterol and higher intakes of fruits, vegetables, whole grains, nuts, soy products, fiber, and phytochemicals.

American Heart Association

Most vegetarian diets are low in or devoid of animal products. They’re also usually lower than nonvegetarian diets in total fat, saturated fat and cholesterol. Many studies have shown that vegetarians seem to have a lower risk of obesity, coronary heart disease (which causes heart attack), high blood pressure, diabetes mellitus and some forms of cancer.

British Dietetic Association

Vegetarian diets can be nutritious and healthy. They are associated with lower risks of heart disease, high blood pressure, Type 2 diabetes, obesity, certain cancers and lower cholesterol levels. This could be because such diets are lower in saturated fat, contain fewer calories and more fibre and phytonutrients/phytochemicals (these can have protective properties) than non-vegetarian diets. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of life and have many benefits.

Dietitians of Canada

A healthy vegan diet has many health benefits including lower rates of obesity, heart disease, high blood pressure, high blood cholesterol, type 2 diabetes and certain types of cancer. A healthy vegan diet can meet all your nutrient needs at any stage of life including when you are pregnant, breastfeeding or for older adults.

The Heart and Stroke Foundation of Canada

Vegetarian diets can provide all the nutrients you need at any age, as well as some additional health benefits. Vegetarian diets often have lower levels of total fat, saturated fat and cholesterol than many meat-based diets, and higher intakes of fibre, magnesium, potassium, folate and antioxidants such as vitamins C and E. Vegetarian diets may lead to lower blood pressure, improved cholesterol levels, healthier weight and less incidence of Type 2 diabetes, all of which can reduce the risk of heart disease and stroke.

The National Health and Medical Research Council

Alternatives to animal foods include nuts, seeds, legumes, beans and tofu. For all Australians, these foods increase dietary variety and can provide a valuable, affordable source of protein and other nutrients found in meats. These foods are also particularly important for those who follow vegetarian or vegan dietary patterns. Australians following a vegetarian diet can still meet nutrient requirements if energy needs are met and the appropriate number and variety of serves from the Five Food Groups are eaten throughout the day. For those eating a vegan diet, supplementation of B12 is recommended.

The Dietitians Association of Australia

Vegan diets are a type of vegetarian diet, where only plant-based foods are eaten. They differ to other vegetarian diets in that no animal products are usually consumed or used. Despite these restrictions, with good planning it is still possible to obtain all the nutrients required for good health on a vegan diet.

The British National Health Service

With good planning and an understanding of what makes up a healthy, balanced vegan diet, you can get all the nutrients your body needs.

The British Nutrition Foundation

A balanced vegetarian or vegan diet can be nutritionally adequate ... Studies of UK vegetarian and vegan children have revealed that their growth and development are within the normal range.

The Mayo Clinic

A vegetarian diet can meet the needs of people of all ages, including children, teenagers, and pregnant or breast-feeding women. The key is to be aware of your nutritional needs so that you plan a diet that meets them.

Cleveland Clinic

There really are no disadvantages to a herbivorous diet! A plant-based diet has many health benefits, including lowering the risk for heart disease, hypertension, Type 2 diabetes, and cancer. It can also help lower cholesterol and blood pressure levels, plus maintain weight and bone health.
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Being true vege's not the way. One still need meat. Say 70% vege, 20% good fat, 10% meat (chicken, fish, rabbit) or eggs. Thay way, one can still go on KD, without increasing meat.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Oct 4 2015, 05:48 PM
Ramjade
post Oct 4 2015, 06:14 PM

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QUOTE(icehart85 @ Oct 4 2015, 05:48 PM)
So now you are disagreeing with the statements from all the medical associations and reputable medical clinics? How is your credibility higher than them??
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No, but I prefer to think logically. Yes vegetarian people are healthier but that does not make them unable to get cancer. One needs protein in terms of vegetable protein or meat protein. That's why I put protein at 10% and veges and fruits at 70%. Best source of protein is no doubt eggs as it is complete and one can buy kampung eggs which are free of injection. Who ask one to eat one whole plate of meat products?

Today's food is all highly process someway or another. That's why there is poleo which basic is go back to nature. Eat fresh organic veges, unprocessed meat (eat those meats feed on real grass or like kampung chicken), drink raw milk. Milk once heated is bad like all the uht milk sold on the market cause high heating changes the protein structure. That's why better to get fresh milk and do your own yogurt. If you said milk is bad, Ever read of kefir? Kefir is a type of fermented milk originated from people in the himalayan where they use kefir grains to ferment goat, yak milk. Kefir is one of the most nutritious drink one can get.

Being vege is up to a person. For me I do not recommend being a true vege. Dump all junk food, process food (sausage, ham, nugget, burger) fast foos, eat more fruits and veges, less carbs, less meat (not totally zero meat) and exercise is better.

Eskimo eats lots of meat and they are fine, (their meat is not process) Mediterranean diet is one of the healthiest diet on earth and yet they still eat meat.

Native people staying the jungle are healthier than city people. They still eat meat and lots of fruits and veges. So how can you say eating meat is bad? Maybe lots of meats. But if one eats like those native people, Eskimo people (unprocessed meat), definitely is healthier.

Humans are omnivore and not pure herbivore. That's why we have canine teeth to break up meat. Moderation is the key. I have met a vegetarian guy who is overweight with big belly

My belief is one can still eat meat but if possible unprocessed meat (rabbit, ayam kg, sea fishes) and eat organic veges and fruits where applicable without forgetting good fats (olive oil, coconut oil, avocados)

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Oct 4 2015, 06:17 PM
Ramjade
post Oct 4 2015, 07:26 PM

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QUOTE(icehart85 @ Oct 4 2015, 06:40 PM)
Many things wrong with your statement. First, you did not bother to find out why medical associations are willing to publish such statements. Like you said we can get proteins from veggie so that does not justify meat consumption. When you just look at one nutrient like protein and claim that eggs are good sources, you also forgot to mention that eggs are super high in cholesterol, one or two eggs is enough to exceed our dietary cholesterol intake. You should look at the whole package as a whole, like lean meat has what else beside protein and thats when you see the other bad stuff like saturated fats, cholesterol, growth hormones, etc etc.

I have already said casein especially found in dairy contribute to cancer growth. How much more do you want me to say for you to realize this fact?

This is not a matter of personal preference. This is a matter of health and for the case in this thread a matter of life and death

Eskimos have low life expectancy. There is also evidence of atherosclerosis in their diet. Mediterranean diet is healthiest but that is also because they eat very little meat, so imagine how much better if it is none?

Humans are biologically herbivore and culturally omnivore. Even dogs and cats who are real omnivores can thrive on vegan diet, so what excuse it is for humans then? One sample from a friend of yours is not representative of the whole community. Besides you need to differentiate vegetarian and vegan. There is a very big difference mind you.

Your belief is not supported by the scientific community and clearly by medical associations and medical clinic. Either you stick with this personal belief, or you change the belief yourself but dont advise people who are really sick to go on a dangerous diet that may jeopardize their life.
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First, get your facts right. Yes eggs contain lots of cholesterol but our body produces them. Dietary cholesterol contributes very little to the body's cholesterol. Go check metabolism of cholesterol. The starting unit for synthesis of cholesterol is......... Surprised glucose again? Unless one have diabetes, one should not eat more than 3 eggs a week. If one is fine, no problem. Again KD, you are not giving the body glucose. So one gives the body eggs, which is high in fat, lipid as energy source and protein. KD= metabolic fasting.

Again who ask you to eat one whole plate full of meat? Out body requires cholesterol to function. What one needs to avoid is saturated fat which one can do by removing the skin of the animals.

You were saying about kefir?
https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Ancbi...ov+kefir+cancer

They might have atherosclerosis. I didn't say that they didn't but they have low heart related diseases. You didn't answer my question regard people living in the jungle who eats meat.
Mediterranean diet is healthiest but that is also because they eat very little meat. They still eat meat and take a look at Mediterranean recipes. They still use fair amount of meat.

Biologically herbivore? Really, explain the canine teeth in humans. Dogs and cats can survive on herbivore diet? Dont make me laugh. Dogs descent from wolf's who hunt in packs. Cats are related to tiger, Lion. Do you see tiger and lion eating grass to live?

Don't advise to go on dangerous diet? I don't see you coming out with suggestions other than being pro carbs and go vege.
At least I recommend KD to decrease glucose availability to the cancer cells. You can check out if KD have any side effects. If one have insulin, there will not be any side effects. KD have been around since 1920 and have been shown to have no side effects. It have been shown to help alzehimer and other stuff.

Turmeric, broccoli, carrots, garlic, white tea are all food which can kill cells naturally. I don't see you coming out with suggestions of food.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Oct 4 2015, 07:27 PM
Ramjade
post Oct 4 2015, 08:43 PM

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QUOTE(icehart85 @ Oct 4 2015, 07:59 PM)
First off how different are your ketogenic diet from the Atkins diet? To me its basically the same. Remember Robert Atkins has a long history of heart diseases. Now if this is not an indicator of practising what you preach then I dunno what else is.
Healthy you say? I dont think so.

You are the one who should get your facts right. I am now questioning where you get your source of info. Please dont tell me its from bodybuilding websites and random blogs or equivalent. By denying that cholesterol and fats are associated with heart disease you are fighting against science itself because overwhelming research has concluded this as a fact. Its called the lipids hypothesis and so many top scientist and doctors are accepting that as a fact.

Now you are contradicting yourself by saying ohh eggs can be eaten generously but how does that fit into your 70-80% plants food profile? Also if eggs is so healthy and fits the lipid and cholesterol profile why should diabetic patients not eat more than 3 days a week? Hey eggs dont have sugars so what is raising their blood sugar levels?????  rclxub.gif By the way glucose is the main source of fuel of the body, you cant lived off fats but not for long because ketones is toxic to the body. Ever wonder why nobody can last in ketogenic diet? Because their body is out of whack that they have to stop.

Intuits have low heart diseases because they die young?? Duhhh? Who's to know that they dies of heart disease when they dont have good hospital at their disposal??? What type of tribes in the jungle eats lots of meat? Can you list them? Mediterranean diet today is not what it used to be today. That is why you see heart disease and other epidemics soaring in the region there.

Canine teeth is for omnivores you say? Explain why there is canine teeth in herbivores as well. Dont believe me? Look it up. One of the longest living dog is a vegan. Please explain why they can live so long.....

I do not recommend more because the diet is easy. To be more specific eat high carb low fat and low protein plant based diet in 80/10/10 ratio or better. The more carbs the better. What veggies? The more variety the better because plants itself has high nutrients, vitamins and antioxidants so you cant go wrong with any of them.
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Ok, you gave yours, I gave mine. Now I have a question to ask, how does your high carbs diet help to combat cancer? At least I gave how KD works on cancer. How does your high carbs help?

Here you go for the egg answer.
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditi...ol/faq-20058468
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/eggs/

What I am saying, is since a person does not eat carbs, the fat in the eggs will be used up as energy source. so none will be stored. Yes, glucose is the body's main fuel so is cancer's main fuel. Why glucose is main fuel is because it is easier to use compare to fat, but the body can adept. You can search up ketones bodies on brian. However the body can use other sources of fuel. Ever wonder why those people fasting 40+ days still can survive?
Let me tell you, our body have glycogen. So if one fast, glycogen will be used up first. Then next will be protein. But that is short while only. After that it switch to fat.
Ketosis is only dangerous if one does Not have insulin like in diabetic mellitus type 1.

QUOTE
Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition
BioMed Central
Metabolic Effects of the Very-Low-Carbohydrate Diets: Misunderstood "Villains" of Human Metabolism
Anssi H Manninen

Additional article information

Abstract
During very low carbohydrate intake, the regulated and controlled production of ketone bodies causes a harmless physiological state known as dietary ketosis. Ketone bodies flow from the liver to extra-hepatic tissues (e.g., brain) for use as a fuel; this spares glucose metabolism via a mechanism similar to the sparing of glucose by oxidation of fatty acids as an alternative fuel. In comparison with glucose, the ketone bodies are actually a very good respiratory fuel. Indeed, there is no clear requirement for dietary carbohydrates for human adults. Interestingly, the effects of ketone body metabolism suggest that mild ketosis may offer therapeutic potential in a variety of different common and rare disease states. Also, the recent landmark study showed that a very-low-carbohydrate diet resulted in a significant reduction in fat mass and a concomitant increase in lean body mass in normal-weight men. Contrary to popular belief, insulin is not needed for glucose uptake and utilization in man. Finally, both muscle fat and carbohydrate burn in an amino acid flame.

Keywords: low-carbohydrate diets, ketogenic diets, ketogenesis, ketosis, diabetic ketoacidosis, ketone bodies, gluconeogenesis, insulin, glucagon, carbohydrate recommendations, glucose utilization, glucose transporters, fatty acids
Regarding Eskimo diet
http://www.researchgate.net/publication/10...is_the_evidence
What I am saying is people living in the jungle still eat meat. They are not 100% vegetarian.

Do you see tiger and lion eating grass as food? Maybe you got a point there. But in nature, dogs, cats do not live on vegan diet. Herbivores do not generally have canine tooth.

My suggestion is do not give up meat completely. Replace the carbs with fat. You are not giving the cancer cells glucose hence only 10% fruits as fruits generally are high in sugar.
60% veges, 10% fruits, 20% good fat, 10% protein (white unprocessed meat or soya protein)

Come tell me how your high carb diet can help? High vege, I agreed with you. But not high carbs.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Oct 4 2015, 08:59 PM
Ramjade
post Oct 4 2015, 10:51 PM

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QUOTE(icehart85 @ Oct 4 2015, 09:22 PM)
To answer you basically, its because you dont eat the food that fuel cancer cells. Cancer cells feed on animal proteins and fats. By eliminating this, you are eliminating cancer fuel source and slowly weakening the cells allowing your immune system to fight the cancer cells naturally. Look at how different your theory is compared to mine. For every study you source, I can find another one that goes against your theory. This goes the same to me as well. To boost these effect its better to eat more veggies so that you have more antioxidants and vitamins to boost up your immune system.

By the way, you did not answer why diabetes patient only can eat 3 eggs but not more.

Dogs and cats are as natural as us living on houses. THey have been domesticated. They are so different than the tiger and lions now. But they still have the carnivorous instinct and yeah they are carnivores but again you are not answering the question, why can they live long in vegan diet. If omnivore can live long like this, why cannot humans do the same?

I have seen more than 100 vegans thrive on this diet. I am part of that as well. We are not talking about just 1-2 years. The longest vegan that I have met has been vegan for 15 years. And he has a perfect blood test result. Using your theory, he would have died of cancer and diabetes by now because he is on a high carb diet. And this is not just one. I have so many countless friends that are thriving on this diet. Please explain why your theory is not working on them?

I am not trying to convince you here, as I realized this is a futile effort. It is unfortunate that you are on a different side because you will have learnt more nutrition knowledge on my side.....Let TS make a sound judgement and see which one he goes for.
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Er, where you get the info they feed on fat? I already showed you evidence that they use glucose (radioactive marker, impaired metabolism). Please show some evidence except that milk protein. Again like I said good fat extra virgin olive oil, avocado, coconut oil. Not saturated fats or deep fried food (vegetable oil on its own like palm contains high Omega 6- inflammatory inducing)

Diabetes have trouble with fats. Decreased insulin resistance due to too much insulin. Insulin is secreted once blood glucose increases. Overtime, it causes the cell to become insensitive to insulin. There's is a study which shows ketogenic diet is better compare to low gi food. Again KD = metabolic fasting. You are not adding glucose into your blood, so whatever glucose in your body will decrease overtime.

Well you can always give it a try be 100% vege (I am assuming you are one?). But like in your previous post, someone mentioned people who are strict vegetarian will get vitb12 deficiency as vitb12 only comes from red meat. Like I said, who ask one to eat one whole plate of meat? That's too much. Eat more veges, but eat a little meat.

Regarding your friend, list out the protocol of 80/10/10. Eg what constitute the 80/10/10. Second how often does your friend exercise? Third, what kind carbs - white rice, potatoes? Fourth, ask him or her go check the teeth with dentist and tell me the results. How does it make sense 80/10/10 have high veges when 80% is carbs? Diabetes - gene, lifestyle (food and exercise). Cancer - genes, environmental, stress, lifestyle, infections. Like you said, high vegetarian diet keep those at bay. But not more carbs. That's a reason why we have GI on food. GI here indicates how fast a particular food rises the blood glucose.

I am open to new knowledge. I agreed with you on vegetarian diet. But I do not agree with the fact about high carbs. High carbs here should be exchanged with oil to force the body to use oil. Good oil here. So the food better be steamed, boiled or oven grilled/stirred fried. And if you want to get stuff into the body one needs fat. Like curcumin in turmeric, beta-carotene in carrots, green vege, lycopropene in tomatoes. Curcumin is a very potent cancer killing substance. Unfortunately, it only dissolves in fat.

My way is very simple. Combination of the basics of poleo, KD, Mediterranean diet.
High vegetables, low carbs, moderate fat (fat here is to replaced the carbs), enough protein. Add in few cancer killing plants.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Oct 4 2015, 10:53 PM
Ramjade
post Oct 5 2015, 12:24 AM

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QUOTE(slimey @ Oct 5 2015, 12:06 AM)
a word of caution :
currently the scientific evidence is insufficient to say whether transfer factor is helpful
http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/...ansfer%20factor

also, i have been searching for the " clinically proven to be able to boost our body's immune system and increase Natural Killer Cell activity "
i search high and low and this is what i found :

Provides powerful immune system support*
• Stimulates Natural Killer (NK) cell activity by 437%*†
• Supports the immune system's natural ability to recognize, respond to,
and remember potential health threats*
• Provides concentrated, certified 4Life Transfer Factor®
• Now 25% more concentrated*

notice the * behind each sentence.........
then i look down : *THESE STATEMENTS HAVE NOT BEEN EVALUATED BY THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION. THESE PRODUCTS ARE NOT INTENDED TO DIAGNOSE, TREAT, CURE, OR PREVENT ANY DISEASE
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&es...uzOCUuvE1AIJKLg
*
Actually is because they don't have the funds to run clinical trial. So have to put that to avoid getting sue by some companies. Supplements like grape seed extract, fish oil carry such words too despite so many clinical trials done on that.

Best evidence is see ncbi.nlm.nih.gov.

There are other ways to increase NK cells too, IP-6, AHCC are some ways. Transfer factors smell to me of MLM companies. Broccoli sprouts, turmeric, white tea, grape skin and seeds are potent anti-cancer substances.
Ramjade
post Oct 5 2015, 01:05 AM

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QUOTE(icehart85 @ Oct 5 2015, 12:24 AM)
Here's two article showing how cancer feed on cholesterol and the other on methionine:

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And here is the article showing how you can reverse cancer cells through diet:

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There you have it, you admit diabetes have problems with fat. My study also says the same. Its the fats inside the cell that is preventing the insulin to react with glucose so that glucose can enter the cells and not get stuck in the blood. Again the cure was this is to limit your fat intake not by eating more keto diet high in fats and proteins. Again our conclusion differ on this one...

Vitamin B12 affects all people regardless of their diet. Vegetarians and vegans may have more deficiency but ultimately all people will have that as they age. In fact it is good to know this earlier because early supplementation would eliminate the harm before its too late.

80% carbs 10% fats 10% protein though you can go even go higher % of carbs than that. He exercise occasionally not too much just within the average of 2-3 times per week. What carbs is not a problem as long as he gets the daily calories of minimum 3000 a day. Tooth decay commonly comes from acidic food and that is normally found in meats and carbonated drinks. Hydration also plays a part. But there is no basis for saying high carb food contribute to tooth decay. Maybe you can provide the study so that I can have a look and learn more about it. It doesnt need to be high veggies because you are getting enough fiber and nutrients from the carbs, yes carbs are not empty calories like you thought it is. Also when eating rice and potatoes normally you have other dishes with you as well and thats where the veggie portion comes from. GI is a measure of how fast the carbs is converted to glucose in the blood. It doesnt matter anyway because on a healthy body your blood sugar will spike but after a while it will come down. Only diabetic patients have problems where their blood sugar remain high because the lipids in the cells block glucose absorption and insulin.

I do not agree on your diet where high fats and proteins is your caloric source. In fact, I can say that your diet is the worse off than a balanced diet because you eat more proportion in animal proteins and fats. Unless you are calorie restricting which is certainly unsustainable. When you consume food you are taking in the whole package, not just protein alone or fats alone but a combination of whole lots of different things. And when taken together you are also intaking lots of risk factors for commone diseases as well. I will just list one or two articles here but you get the idea:

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» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

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The way I look at it is cancer cells uses glucose. And glucose is the basic stuff to manufacture cholesterol (you can Google biochemical cholesterol synthesis). So by using up the glucose, less cholesterol is formed.

The thing with diabetes is too much sugar. Only way is to decrease sugar is by decreasing consumption (less carbs, fasting, metabolic fasting) or increase usage (exercise). Ever wonder why metformin the diabetes drug have an an affect towards cancer? I am betting it got something to do with blood sugar.

First time I am hearing carbs contain fiber. If like that constipated people eat rice enough already. If you meant complex carbs like oats, then yes I agreed if they contain fiber. You can check out fiber content of potatoes, bread, rice.and tell me how much fiber they contain. Nonsuch.

You are only partially right on acidic food with tooth decay. High starch food gets partially digested by saliva in the mouth. Then bacteria does the rest of the dirty work, fermenting the carbs and form lactic acid which corrode the teeth. That's why we brush teeth to remove the food from our teeth.

I did not say high protein. I said enough protein. One does not need high protein. Just enough. I just said replacing carbs with oil. Good oil. Cut down on bad oil and include in good oil into ones diet. Running away from oil is not the answer when our cells membrane is made of oil. Brain, hormones are made from oil. Oil is needed to carry important nutrients which are not water soluble. Even developing babies need essential fatty acids for their brains.


Ramjade
post Oct 6 2015, 08:33 AM

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QUOTE(icehart85 @ Oct 5 2015, 06:13 PM)
It wont help as biology teach you nothing in nutrition. Heck, even medical doctors only have 3 hours max of study in nutrition throughout the many years of their study.

You have to take your time to research yourself on nutrition.
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I believed all foundation/a-level did teach you something about metabolism. Remember kreb cycle? They have a section which shows the body can use fat. Just in case you have forgotten,

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q...r5b1XjKu6jpNT0y

Well I quote Wikipedia
QUOTE
The ketogenic diet may be a successful treatment for several rare metabolic diseases. Case reports of two children indicate that it may be a possible treatment for astrocytomas, a type of brain tumour. Autism, depression, migraine headaches, polycystic ovary syndrome and diabetes mellitus type 2 have also been shown to improve in small case studies. There is evidence from uncontrolled clinical trials and studies in animal models that the ketogenic diet can provide symptomatic and disease-modifying activity in a broad range of neurodegenerative disorders including amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, Alzheimer's disease and Parkinson's disease, and may be protective in traumatic brain injury and stroke. Because tumour cells are inefficient in processing ketone bodies for energy, the ketogenic diet has also been suggested as a treatment for cancer, including glioma.

And here is the link for reviews by other user on the Internet of the site where you get your info
https://www.mywot.com/en/scorecard/nutritionfacts.org
I am not saying the site is bad. Just double check the info with
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
I won't get into another debate with you seeing that last few pages have more than enough info for people to read.

iimcrystal I am not asking you to go on all fat and high protein diet. I am asking you to replace carbs with oil. Eat lots of veges. Don't buy normal coconut oil. That is bad. Get the virgin coconut oil which when you open smell of coconut candy. That's the best coconut oil, can be use to heat food as it is stable compare to palm oil. Extra virgin olive oil in dark bottles is the best. Extra virgin olive oil cannot be heated. Once you heat extra virgin olive oil, it becomes bad oil. If you want to avoid oil be my guest but those cancer fighting food I told you about turmeric, tomatoes, capsicum will just pass through. It won't be absorbed by the body.

If you scared dirty, like I said, drink turmeric tea with virgin coconut oil + crush black pepper + bai mu dan everytime. Use that to replace normal water. Add a slice of lemon for additional benefits. The reason ask you to add coconut oil is so that the water soluble part will dissolve in water and the oil soluble part will dissolve in oil. So you get the best of both world.

Those dirty stuff is if you eat mcd, KFC, pizza, Sam cham bak, bak kut teh's fat. Bad fat. If you eat a clean vegetable meal with good oil with enough protein (up to you want to get your protein from animal or tofu) + additional of those anti-cancer food, is already very good.

For additional stuff, go find neem leaves and eat everyday. Can be found near Indian temple. Ask for a plant to paint yourself. Neem is one of the very powerful plant around. Is extremely bitter.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Oct 6 2015, 08:35 AM
Ramjade
post Oct 6 2015, 01:48 PM

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QUOTE(Empathy @ Oct 6 2015, 01:38 PM)
Atkins diet is definitely NO ... NO . But I don't like to force my opinion on to others . They can eat whatever they want . Another thing is that animal product is very addictive . Its hard for ppl to change their diet . My cousin got back pain and I told her to change to plant based diet but she replied that she rather die than eating plant food . Nothing much I can do , its her body anyway .

.
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Who ask people to eat so much protein? My suggestion is actually just switching the carbs and fat to good fat. The body needs fat. Basic knowledge, vitamin a,d,e,K are fat soluble, our cells membrane is make from lipid. Eyes, brains, hormone need fat. Olive oil, walnuts, almonds, avocado are all plants with good fat which is recommended by heart association.
Dr Mcdougall starch based diet is asking one to forgo all good fats. If you read reviews on amazon, some user of his books shared what's wrong with his food.

If one were to follow the Atkins diet, good luck la. Sure get gout later one whether one take animal or vege protein.

The basic thing is a vege diet with enough proteins (from animals or plants) and good fats. No need for carbs.

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