I think my questions were quite polite, because bold claims and high prices that Cuckoo established, require rock solid proofs, especially when you start bringing WHO into play though WHO has never endorsed Cuckoo in any way. And as water treatment professional, sorry but I do have tough sentiments towards water pseudo-science, which really hurts the industry, but let's go step by step.

1. Total lack of information on the website. Every purifier has bare minimum of information, no link given to other sources, studies, tests, anything. How does your "nanopositive" filter works, what is "natural" filter? By whom was this technology approved, any results of independent tests? If it is some special new media, who is it made by? Any reference?


2. Bio Cera does not make all cartridges for Cuckoo, in fact it makes only ceramic balls. And this is complete and total pseudo-science. These are balls that supposedly make your water alkaline and alkaline and oxygenated water is a pseudo science. If you are offended by this statement, I encourage you to post any independent scientific article that will prove me wrong and prove that so called "alkaline water" has ANY benefit. And since you like to refer to WHO, then let me refer to their own article:

In addition, solutions of pH 10–12.5 have been reported to cause hair fibres to swell
(10). In sensitive individuals, gastrointestinal irritation may also occur

The optimum pH will vary in different supplies according to the composition of the water and
the nature of the construction materials used in the distribution system, but is often in the
range 6.5–9.5
http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health...hemicals/ph.pdf


And now the funny part: every single part of KL and Malaysia has PH over 6.5, it is a requirement for drinking water in Malaysia
http://kmam.moh.gov.my/public-user/drinkin...y-standard.html
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/24...in_Kuala_Lumpur

So since you like to refer to WHO, WHO just basically called "alkaline water" pseudo science, which it is. WHO just called levels above 10PH as potentially dangerous and Bio Cera is somewhere between PH 8 and 13.

American Council on Science and Health totally agrees:
https://www.acsh.org/news/2015/07/30/fact-c...ing-phony-water


3. So Cuckoo cartridges are not NSF (minus pseudo science from #2, tested for material safety), unlike Coway, but Coway does admit that some cartridges are Korean technology, made in Shandong, China. Nothing wrong with that, they can backup their claims.


4. Cuckoo meets WHO standards? Actually, any tap water in Malaysia meets WHO standards. If you do not believe me, check Malaysia water standards and WHO standards and compare. Problem is, WHO has 7 billion people to take care of. Already over 60% of population do not have access to what is considered safe drinking water by WHO. Tighten standards a bit more and more than 90% will not have access to what is considered safe water, which means we failed big time as civilization.


5.

This is not worth commenting on. I am not aware of any filters that can be a cause of the sickness or disease simply because it is pretty much impossible to trace any sickness back to water filter. What does this statement even mean and how is this relevant to our discussion?



6.

Cannot agree more, I just want to add that let's stop feeding pseudo-science to people.


If one wants Korean dispenser with highest quality, NSF certified filters then Huyndai makes one. Yes, same Huyndai that makes cars. I am not affiliated with them, I do not sell their products. I just know that their dispenser with filter system costs around 1000-1500RM RETAIL in Korea, this is after Huyndai already taking profits. Bring it to Malaysia, it's probably 2000-2500 product. Cuckoo/Coway cannot compete in Korea. Do not believe me, go check 11st.co.kr , largest Korean online marketplace, tell me if you find Coway/Cuckoo water filters. Cuckoo/Coway water purifiers are present on the markets where unsupported claims can be made easily and where there's a lack of competition. If 3M was a little bit more active and smart about their price and marketing strategy in Malaysia, they could be dominating the local market, considering total lack of competition from other big players.


One thing Cuckoo/Coway does well is their financing plan. For people who cannot/do not want to accumulate money but want to enjoy filtered water with a dispenser right now it's not a bad choice. But I believe Midea also offers some plans, but their profit margins are low, they cannot offer to open outlet in every mall.


P.S. sorry if my post offended you again, but all I do is collecting facts and nothing more than facts and I refer to the most reputable organizations in the industry. We are not bashing one brand, but rather discussing it here. And as I said before, bold claims require bold proofs. You're welcome to prove me and my points wrong.

Only so called "alkaline ceramic balls" are NSF 42.

But besides having NSF 42, it is all water pseudo science, can check their page at http://biocera.co.kr/biocera-balls

Damn! I'm trying to trick him to claim that all Cuckoo cartridges are NSF certified

oh, my bad )))

But here's the downside of NSF demonstrated clearly, since 42 is just material safety, you can certify anything to 42 and then make crazy health benefit claims, it will all look like as if claims are certified by NSF, especially to people who are less aware. 61 and 53 is the same, certify to just 1 parameter and you can claim it is NSF 53/61 certified.

On the other hand, many German filters never got any NSF, but they are rock solid and everyone trusts them, because it is hard to make false/inaccurate claims in a competitive environments. (Though heir prices start at around 2000 Euro for RO systems with tank, but that is a different story lol).

Thanks for pointing out your facts and I totally respect your opinion and explanation.
Although this discussion would never end, its worth to debate.

This post has been edited by mrdamncool: Jul 28 2018, 09:37 AM

Two issues.
1. All filter will list how much water they can filter before replacement necessary. Same reason a filter can last 2 persons for 12 months but can only 4 persons for 6 months etc.

2. NSF have several standards. A reputable filter company will tell you specifically which NSF standard they are being certified for. Otherwise, mentioning NSF is pretty meaningless. For example, a filter may only be certified to make water look good only but not removing anything harmful.

NSF 42 is probably the lowest standard. I wouldn't bother too much with that standard.

This post has been edited by touristking: Jul 28 2018, 03:43 PM

May be they have other certification like UL etc? NSF isn't the only certification organization.

Yes, precisely my point, NSF, though desirable, is not available with every system, but many other certification may be available. Problem is, even NSF is confusing, let alone some Russian GOST or European standard. The best system in the world is California certification with clear performance data sheets etc, but it's bloody expensive and even a slightest change of supplier will require full re certification. Not a single system not sold in California will ever even think about certifying to these standards.

Neither is true. How do you even define quality? Quality so it doesn't break? Quality so it does actually filter something? At my previous job for manufacturers, we were able to get NSF for what I believe was a really poor quality product. Actually it was not poor quality, just very inconsistent. Though it was a responsible company, they never released the product to the market.

Looking for a water filter for a condo, where should i start? i know price range from hundreds to thousands, but what are the main thing to actually look at ?

POU or POE ? Budget ?, undersink or counter top ? light usage or heavy usage ? Etc... etc. Can't recommend any with out knowing your applications and requirements

Thanks for those questions.. at least it helps me to get started.. that's what i mention don't even know where to start?

POU / POE ?
sorry don't know what this means

undersink or counter top? c
counter top

budget?
don't have a fix budget for now as I am exploring , but maybe for a start anything below 2000

Light/heavy usage?
Light usage

just get cuckoo..how is it?

PoU is what you're looking for. PoE is a filter for whole house/condo. Basically it is Point of Use (PoU) or Point of Entry (PoE).

I also sent you a PM

Not necessarily so.
Not all user are technically competent. Some wouldn't know what are the different NSF standard. For some, if it looks good, then it's good.

For anyone who wants to educate themselves more about water pseudoscience (alkaline, oxygen, hydrogen, cluster, live, raw and all other types of gimmick water), please visit the website of a chemist who exposes all this pseudoscience.

Stephen Lower is a retired faculty member of the Dept of Chemistry, Simon Fraser University Burnaby / Vancouver, Canada. He has no vested interest, he doesn't work for any filter company. He is just a very experienced chemist who is able to debunk all the myths with pure science. I wish he could get more exposure.

http://www.chem1.com/CQ/

Great sharing, thank you sir. Water pseudoscience is purely a commercial propaganda by the companies/agents with vested interest.
Btw, I would like to request if it is possible for you to send a sample of Fresca Disruptor water to a local laboratory for water quality test ?

Sure it is possible, I even asked if this would actually be beneficial, few pages ago, response was actually negative, saying it doesn't really help.

I would love to do that, but I would rather not take tap water, but highly contaminated water and pass it through FD, maybe film a video of how it all happens, test "before and after".

Just sending a random sample claiming it comes from FD is probably not a fair game. What if I just took it from bottled water for example, if you see what I mean.


Edit: maybe someone would have an idea of some contaminants they want to test again, then we can contaminate the water on purpose and measure the performance of the filter in a lab

This post has been edited by hestati: Aug 1 2018, 06:10 PM

Thank you sir, please update the forum upon completion of the lab test.

Need your opinion on this, I have a carbon block and some loose GAC savaged from used cartridges. I was thinking if I can maximize it's remaining useful life by putting it in the car to eliminate the durian odour. Do you think these used carbon block and GAC still good for deodorizer ?

I'm not an expert in air filtration, but I would assume you need to force the air through it, just like you force water through it, doubt it will do much if you simply leave a pile of carbon in the car, may improve smell just a little bit, but even for that, it is used already,,probably not worth it. Just my opinion