After all the replies, the conclusion is there are only ONE God that is ALLAH. He is the only one god and the almighty god.and Muhammad is the messenger of allah. ____________________________________________ "In the name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate. Say (O Muhammad) He is God the One God, the Everlasting Refuge, who has not begotten, nor has been begotten, and equal to Him is not anyone."
Surah al ikhlas, chapter 112 ____________________________________________ -Topic Closed- ____________________________________________ P/S: actually how to close thread aaa?i dunno lah. LoLolololoLoloL
This post has been edited by sgshuhu: May 6 2015, 01:42 PM
After all the replies, the conclusion is there are only ONE God that is ALLAH. He is the only one god and the almighty god.and Muhammad is the messenger of allah. ____________________________________________ "In the name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate. Say (O Muhammad) He is God the One God, the Everlasting Refuge, who has not begotten, nor has been begotten, and equal to Him is not anyone."
Surah al ikhlas, chapter 112 ____________________________________________ -Topic Closed- ____________________________________________ P/S: actually how to close thread aaa?i dunno lah. LoLolololoLoloL
What tickles me is how theists enjoy obfuscating the issue by bringing in all sorts of irrelevant discussions.
What is it now? Evolution or existence of god? Which is it? Pick which you want to discuss.
Incidentally, I would like to point out that evolution is not exactly contradictory to religion depending on which school of thought you follow. I know quite a few Muslims who are fine with it, and that the official position of the Catholic church is that evolution happened.
Also...this statement?
Evolutionist himself figure out human from apes theory changes & now irrelevant.
Incorrect, and idiotic. Evolution has never been irreleveant, nor has it ever stated humans came from apes. You need to study some more instead of commenting on something you don't understand.
Do not know, means we study it. We don't make up stories to explain something. You have not even proven magic. You just stated that is 'exists', but is regarded by the scientific community as hogwash.
And no, we don't run from ghosts. They don't exist.
From the Church POV, does not mean evolution discredit creation. It starts from there, then evolution. It's not just Catholics.
And if somebody does a Gregor Clegane on you, as in he rapes your wife, your daughter, and than kills your infant son by smashing his head with his bare hands and your entire family to boot, he will be forgiven and saved by believing in Him. And thus he gets a ticket to salvation and you and your deceased family will have to face this person in Heaven for eternity, but hey...all is forgiven, no? Its OK, he's a different person now and he repented.
Jeng jeng jeng...did I just give the believer nightmares?
Well, like it or not you're stuck with him for all eternity. Wouldn't that be something?
Guy does all these nasty things and he gets to enjoy eternal paradise just as long as he accepts salvation just in the nick of time. What an awesome concept.
Yeah,i think I like the balance of good deeds idea better...
Well he will be changed eternally as well. So it is an awesome concept.
Joined: Oct 2007
From: Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster
QUOTE(unknown warrior @ May 6 2015, 03:33 PM)
From the Church POV, does not mean evolution discredit creation. It starts from there, then evolution. It's not just Catholics.
Yes, I know its not just Catholics. Some Protestants also agree with that viewpoint, but the Catholics are the only ones who have made it their official stance.
Also, I mostly only dispute Young Earth Creationists and a literal interpretation of Genesis. If you follow the Catholic line, I have no scientific beef with you really. You want to believe that the universe is created, that's fine. I will not argue with that. I don't agree but I see no reason to make a big fuss about it.
What tickles me , most gnostic-atheist wanna be a hero prove they ahead & always right 101 (aka beyond God); BUT with false experiment & inconsistency finding. Evolutionist himself figure out human from apes theory changes & now irrelevant. Now they figure new idea human was send by the aliens to earth so we become 'space religion' in the age of aquarius, They're quite arrogance towards 'narrow mind believers' by mixing fiction with science to be 'creative & looks awesome'. Becoming scientific heroes and plead together God is Dead. genius
Your admiration 'we dont know thing' has alot of meaning, our knowledge not reaching yet, perhaps unreachable or even mysteries ? hmmm does mysteries belong in science? Creationist believe human indirectly send by God via Adam & Eve, simple as that because they're people believing magic. I know sounds ridiculous but magic its something science could not explain, no one able explain where is human soul, mind & supernatural thing, these are a real deal. Those pride unbeliever-atheist saying out loud God is ridiculous but when they alone in the dark they would run from a Ghost, DOH
Well, like it or not you're stuck with him for all eternity. Wouldn't that be something?
Guy does all these nasty things and he gets to enjoy eternal paradise just as long as he accepts salvation just in the nick of time. What an awesome concept.
Yeah,i think I like the balance of good deeds idea better...
If my heart is so hard and full of vengeance then yes it would be an issue. Besides, it's not as if I am sinless, who am I to judge.
QUOTE(Archmage Warlic @ May 6 2015, 12:54 AM)
I will try to answer the best I can as my knowledge and understanding of scripture is shallow.
QUOTE
What are you even trying to say? How is "saved", "justified" and "earn grace" different from one another? It seems like plenty of new words have been thrown in and is making everything unclear. Also, while the Bible never explicitly said to NOT do good deeds (I never claimed that anyway), and the Bible never explicitly said that good deeds are pointless, but given how the importance of good deeds and noble, charitable acts has been downplayed, isn't the same thing being implicitly implied? If good deeds are not the ticket to salvation, why bother going out of our way to aid others? Believe that He exists, and believe that He is God - isn't that all you need?
Ephesians 2:8-10 : For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
If I am right, we can't buy (or earn) our way into Heaven but however we should do good to glorify our Father in Heaven and to please God.
Mathew 5:16 : In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.
Hebrews 13:16 : And do not forget to do good and to share with others, for with such sacrifices God is pleased.
QUOTE
Saved... from what? Damnation? Hellfire? Hellfire which he created to shove non-believers into? Compare "U tak suka, u tak ikut cara kami, u pergi India, u balik China" with "You don't follow my ways, you don't believe in me, to Hell you go, in Hell you stay". The God is a feudal lord who creates the world, owns the world and demands everyone to worship him? *jawdrops* "Bow, and kneel to me, or stay in prison, FOREVER!"
Technically Adam brought sin to the world and Jesus was the means to be saved. It's more of a we are already condemned unless we believe in Jesus if I get it right.
Romans 5:17-20 : For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ! Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous. The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
John 3:17-18 : For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
I dislike the whole "Turn or Burn" thing, made me disliked Christians when I was a teenager.
QUOTE
False. Do all people who believe in Him automatically do good to others? If you believe in Him, you will surely do good to others? People do believe in Him, go out of church, break as many commandments as you can think of, do malicious things for personal gain, justify their actions to themselves for a while, go to church, express their remorse and ask for forgiveness, rinse and repeat. At the end of the day, they still think they can hope for a chance to be sent to Heaven - they are believers, after all.
it isn't an automatic thing. it's more of a like "IF YOU really do love Jesus, then you will do good"
John 13:34 : A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.
John 14:15 : If you love me, keep my commands.
I think the above is sufficient with regards to doing good. As for those who continue to sin, I think there are 2 categories, one who has a habitual sinful (one who struggles with it the best he/she cans everyday but still sins) and those who deliberately continuously sin despite knowing not to. As for the former
Romans 7:21-25 : So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
As for the latter, we should not continue to sin. And if I am right, we should do our best to repent and not to continue sinning.
Romans 2:4 : Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance?
Romans 6:1-2 : What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?
Romans 12:1-2 : Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
QUOTE
I apologize if my replies above are a mess. I'm not in my best state today.
To the theists: I have many classmates/colleagues/teachers/friends/acquaintances/strangers convincing me to believe in their God, and join their brotherhood. Islam, various branches of Christianity, Buddhism, Sikhism, Hinduism, Taoism, you name it. They have shown me countless long, long anti-atheistic arguments, mainly to prove God really exists. However, my concern is not whether God exists or not, but the question which I have asked many of them:
I do agree some just believe for the sake of believing/parents/society/fear of the after life. I believe that Jesus Christ is the real deal due to the prophecies made ages ago before Jesus was born and he fulfilled it. The old testament predicted Jesus's coming (earliest ones are around 500 years before He was born if I am right). That's one of the source (and anchor) of my faith in His existence. YouTube documentary if you are interested.
my apologies for the quotes within a quote. just noticed my error after typing it all out. I do hope the answers are sufficient and are not wrong. If I did make a mistake in my interpretation, I welcome correction from all.
Joined: Oct 2007
From: Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster
QUOTE(Cryptic @ May 6 2015, 09:24 PM)
If my heart is so hard and full of vengeance then yes it would be an issue. Besides, it's not as if I am sinless, who am I to judge.
Easy for you to say, but can you really face up to that such a person for eternity? Think about that for a moment.
Saying that you are not 'sinless' is an excuse. What have you done that is so bad that other people would not want to see you for eternity? People can't help stepping on other's toes in life, but we generally don't go around killing their entire families.
Meanwhile, people who have done far less, like Buddhist nuns for example...living simple pious lives but still going to burn in hell anyway cos whoops...wrong religion.
Which is why I say this concept is all messed up. I'm not saying that there should be no forgiveness, but this catch-all forgive-all sounds like it was something that was crafted for the sake of getting a lot of converts.
And judging people for the sake of not believing is stupidly harsh to the point that I really just can't respect any deity who thought of this dumb concept.
Easy for you to say, but can you really face up to that such a person for eternity? Think about that for a moment.
Saying that you are not 'sinless' is an excuse. What have you done that is so bad that other people would not want to see you for eternity? People can't help stepping on other's toes in life, but we generally don't go around killing their entire families.
Meanwhile, people who have done far less, like Buddhist nuns for example...living simple pious lives but still going to burn in hell anyway cos whoops...wrong religion.
Which is why I say this concept is all messed up. I'm not saying that there should be no forgiveness, but this catch-all forgive-all sounds like it was something that was crafted for the sake of getting a lot of converts.
And judging people for the sake of not believing is stupidly harsh to the point that I really just can't respect any deity who thought of this dumb concept.
Just saying...
like I said, I will be very tempted to punish him.
QUOTE(Cryptic @ May 5 2015, 08:46 PM)
erm no you didn't? If that really happens to me, I pray for the strength to overcome it and forgive him because Lord knows I will be very tempted to not forgive him and to inflict pain in him instead.
But if he were to truly repent, I guess my answer may be different but then I do not know.
IF I am right. It's not about the fact of whether we did more or less, its the mere fact that we did and we have a tendency to sin. we have a tendency to sin from birth; put 3 kids together and a toy in the center and you will see sin. Jesus was sent here not to judge but to save us as mentioned previously.
like i said in the previous post, I'm not too well versed with scripture.
like I said, I will be very tempted to punish him. But if he were to truly repent, I guess my answer may be different but then I do not know.
IF I am right. It's not about the fact of whether we did more or less, its the mere fact that we did and we have a tendency to sin. we have a tendency to sin from birth; put 3 kids together and a toy in the center and you will see sin. Jesus was sent here not to judge but to save us as mentioned previously.
like i said in the previous post, I'm not too well versed with scripture.
It is actually better that no messenger was sent. Romans 5:13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law.
The problem with the God of religious scripture is He never made a good example of Himself in regards to his own teaching. God has all the power to stop this whole mess of torment yet did nothing. He should take back this verse and swallow it upside down. James 4:17 If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them.
Just like a bunch of justin beiber fans trying to convince me how awesome beiber is. What should i tell them? It's nice to worship her but pls keep it to yourself. Thanks.
It is actually better that no messenger was sent. Romans 5:13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law.
The problem with the God of religious scripture is He never made a good example of Himself in regards to his own teaching. God has all the power to stop this whole mess of torment yet did nothing. He should take back this verse and swallow it upside down. James 4:17 If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them.
1. There is a reason for all these that has happened, I did explained this in our Christian Fellowship thread.
2. If He were to do that, you would have not existed. Neither would your parents, siblings, family. But I need to give a correct perspective about God, He did do SOMETHING and that is the Gospel of the Grace of Christ.
1. There is a reason for all these that has happened, I did explained this in our Christian Fellowship thread.
Link me the page.
QUOTE
2. If He were to do that, you would have not existed. Neither would your parents, siblings, family. But I need to give a correct perspective about God, He did do SOMETHING and that is the Gospel of the Grace of Christ.
I’m perfectly fine with not existing if the probability of me and others going to end up in eternal hell remains open. In analogy, will you bother having children if it was diagnosed that your child will have a high possibility of inheriting some serious genetic disorder leading to hellish abnormality?
I think generally every religion teaches that. To talk kindly with one another, instead of talking maliciously.
Because deacons/deaconesses are people of position in the Church so they have to be accountable to represent who they are.
Nothing to do with “teach or to assume authority over a man”. That as I've mentioned is context to husband and wife.
Your reason says women are not permit to assume authority over a man because they are control freak and manipulative…correct me if i’m wrong. I’ve to admit the arguments bolded earlier failed to hit the point but nonetheless the context is psychologically related. A person who is temperate/worthy of respect/trustworthy is a person who has self-control/knows moderation thus it is not incoherent to assume that such person will not have intolerable inclination to impose selfish desires upon others.
And it is not restricted to household affair if one read the context of 1 Conrinthians 14.
Link me the page. I’m perfectly fine with not existing if the probability of me and others going to end up in eternal hell remains open. In analogy, will you bother having children if it was diagnosed that your child will have a high possibility of inheriting some serious genetic disorder leading to hellish abnormality?
You're not the only one, everyone is together in this, even I'm on the way to hell if I did not accept Christ as my savior. It's bit long winded to explain but here's the short summary of it, my take of it.
I believe there are 2 reasons why God allowed things to move on and not snap his finger as you said;
1. We are given his breath of life which is eternal. What is eternal cannot be destroyed, The essence of our spirit. Even though the body may rot and all that but the spirit lives on. Did God made a mistake? Definitely not. I'm glad to have existed and so many others. Glad to have experience love, pain and all that. Is it worth it? Yes IMO. And there are some so pained in life, they wished they've never existed. My point being, we are responsible for our own actions, not God. God did not create the problem, we did. To pin and blame it on God is just irresponsible and lazy way of excuse, IMO.
2. So that we understand what would happen if anyone is tempted to repeat the same mistake that Adam and Eve did in New Heaven and Earth, is it worth to go through all these crazy cycle again? Definitely not, IMO. Point is, this world will be destroyed and a New one will emerge from God.
QUOTE(loud @ May 7 2015, 01:13 PM)
Your reason says women are not permit to assume authority over a man because they are control freak and manipulative…correct me if i’m wrong. I’ve to admit the arguments bolded earlier failed to hit the point but nonetheless the context is psychologically related. A person who is temperate/worthy of respect/trustworthy is a person who has self-control/knows moderation thus it is not incoherent to assume that such person will not have intolerable inclination to impose selfish desires upon others.
And it is not restricted to household affair if one read the context of 1 Conrinthians 14.
1. No it's not based on that. We all have to learn humility and be submissive one way or another. Just like how we need to learn to submit to authority in hierarchy in corporate organization, same principal in this.
2. No, again, The Greek word, guné 1 Corinthians 14:34 is referring to wife. What is my basis? It's in the following verse.
35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.g
Do you see the word "OWN husband". The word own emphasize, so it's not referring to woman in general.
This post has been edited by unknown warrior: May 7 2015, 02:24 PM
May 6 2015, 01:39 PM
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best troll ever
DOH
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