If you want buy car, you will find car that make by those trusted car automaker like bimmer and merc. So the car has its own maker or someone that create the car. Same goes to your daily need such a watch, iphone, tv,radio,shoes,shirt, internet, house and etc all have their own creator or someone that make those item. But why you deny that you are also have your own creator that is god.for muslim it call Allah.how come those beautiful forest,ocean,mountain and those complex animal like tiger,lion, cheetah have not create by someone powerful. Not to mention those hot sun,moon and star.what make you think all those amazing thing around you those not have their creator and Terjadi semula jadi. If someone say that their house is semulajadi, you must think he crazy right?

This perfectly narrates my "religion". I wish there is a single word I can use to describe this whenever people relentlessly ask about my religion.

This also explains why I find some religions ridiculous. I have been bought to a Christian Methodist church several times and in their sermons (or whatever they were doing - a priest / group representative leading everyone to chant out verses and sentences projected in Powerpoint slides), they repeatedly chant "I am aware I cannot obtain salvation by doing good deeds, I can only be saved by believing in Him".

I took an immediate dislike towards the entire sermon / session. The entire session seems to be like "You WANT to be saved -> Believe in me to be saved! -> Oh, by the way, good deeds are pointless."

What is the point in discrediting good deeds? Is the religion suggesting going good deeds are of no importance, and worthless? Is this why many people seem to be focusing too much into their afterlife to the point that they are unaware of what they are doing to the people around them? Is this why people talk and talk about being saved in church but treats people like pieces of trash out of the church?

Perhaps that is why I find many of the most religious people around me to be unbelievable hypocrites. The most horrifying thing is the fact that they can continue their lives comfortably while justifying to themselves for being a huge hypocrites.

Religious F***tards.

(P/s: Oh, and even if you bring this out for discussion in the most civil way possible, such as in academic debates, there will CERTAINLY some people who would either secretly or overtly get batshit offended and start getting defensive, and if you are unlucky, probably mark you for assassination)

And if somebody does a Gregor Clegane on you, as in he rapes your wife, your daughter, and than kills your infant son by smashing his head with his bare hands and your entire family to boot, he will be forgiven and saved by believing in Him. And thus he gets a ticket to salvation and you and your deceased family will have to face this person in Heaven for eternity, but hey...all is forgiven, no? Its OK, he's a different person now and he repented.

Jeng jeng jeng...did I just give the believer nightmares?

Well, like it or not you're stuck with him for all eternity. Wouldn't that be something?

Guy does all these nasty things and he gets to enjoy eternal paradise just as long as he accepts salvation just in the nick of time. What an awesome concept.

Yeah,i think I like the balance of good deeds idea better...

I will try to answer the best I can as my knowledge and understanding of scripture is shallow.



Ephesians 2:8-10 : For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

If I am right, we can't buy (or earn) our way into Heaven but however we should do good to glorify our Father in Heaven and to please God.

Mathew 5:16 : In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.

Hebrews 13:16 : And do not forget to do good and to share with others, for with such sacrifices God is pleased.



Technically Adam brought sin to the world and Jesus was the means to be saved. It's more of a we are already condemned unless we believe in Jesus if I get it right.

Romans 5:17-20 : For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ! Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous. The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

John 3:17-18 : For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

I dislike the whole "Turn or Burn" thing, made me disliked Christians when I was a teenager.



it isn't an automatic thing. it's more of a like "IF YOU really do love Jesus, then you will do good"

John 13:34 : A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.

John 14:15 : If you love me, keep my commands.

I think the above is sufficient with regards to doing good. As for those who continue to sin, I think there are 2 categories, one who has a habitual sinful (one who struggles with it the best he/she cans everyday but still sins) and those who deliberately continuously sin despite knowing not to. As for the former

Romans 7:21-25 : So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

As for the latter, we should not continue to sin. And if I am right, we should do our best to repent and not to continue sinning.

Romans 2:4 : Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance?

Romans 6:1-2 : What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?

Romans 12:1-2 : Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.



I do agree some just believe for the sake of believing/parents/society/fear of the after life. I believe that Jesus Christ is the real deal due to the prophecies made ages ago before Jesus was born and he fulfilled it. The old testament predicted Jesus's coming (earliest ones are around 500 years before He was born if I am right). That's one of the source (and anchor) of my faith in His existence. YouTube documentary if you are interested.

Easy for you to say, but can you really face up to that such a person for eternity? Think about that for a moment.

Saying that you are not 'sinless' is an excuse. What have you done that is so bad that other people would not want to see you for eternity? People can't help stepping on other's toes in life, but we generally don't go around killing their entire families.

Meanwhile, people who have done far less, like Buddhist nuns for example...living simple pious lives but still going to burn in hell anyway cos whoops...wrong religion.

Which is why I say this concept is all messed up. I'm not saying that there should be no forgiveness, but this catch-all forgive-all sounds like it was something that was crafted for the sake of getting a lot of converts.

And judging people for the sake of not believing is stupidly harsh to the point that I really just can't respect any deity who thought of this dumb concept.

Just saying...

erm no you didn't? If that really happens to me, I pray for the strength to overcome it and forgive him because Lord knows I will be very tempted to not forgive him and to inflict pain in him instead.