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loud
post May 6 2015, 11:08 PM

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QUOTE(Cryptic @ May 6 2015, 10:48 PM)
like I said, I will be very tempted to punish him.
But if he were to truly repent, I guess my answer may be different but then I do not know.

IF I am right. It's not about the fact of whether we did more or less, its the mere fact that we did and we have a tendency to sin. we have a tendency to sin from birth; put 3 kids together and a toy in the center and you will see sin. Jesus was sent here not to judge but to save us as mentioned previously.

like i said in the previous post, I'm not too well versed with scripture.
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It is actually better that no messenger was sent.
Romans 5:13
To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law.


The problem with the God of religious scripture is He never made a good example of Himself in regards to his own teaching. God has all the power to stop this whole mess of torment yet did nothing. He should take back this verse and swallow it upside down.
James 4:17 If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them.

loud
post May 7 2015, 01:13 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ May 7 2015, 09:54 AM)
1. There is a reason for all these that has happened, I did explained this in our Christian Fellowship thread.

Link me the page.

QUOTE
2. If He were to do that, you would have not existed. Neither would your parents, siblings, family. But I need to give a correct perspective about God, He did do SOMETHING and that is the Gospel of the Grace of Christ.
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I’m perfectly fine with not existing if the probability of me and others going to end up in eternal hell remains open. In analogy, will you bother having children if it was diagnosed that your child will have a high possibility of inheriting some serious genetic disorder leading to hellish abnormality?


user posted image
...why this thread closed so early?
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/3564649/+220

QUOTE
Malicious talkers just mean as it is.

I think generally every religion teaches that. To talk kindly with one another, instead of talking maliciously.

Because deacons/deaconesses are people of position in the Church so they have to be accountable to represent who they are.

Nothing to do with “teach or to assume authority over a man”. That as I've mentioned is context to husband and wife.

Your reason says women are not permit to assume authority over a man because they are control freak and manipulative…correct me if i’m wrong.
I’ve to admit the arguments bolded earlier failed to hit the point but nonetheless the context is psychologically related. A person who is temperate/worthy of respect/trustworthy is a person who has self-control/knows moderation thus it is not incoherent to assume that such person will not have intolerable inclination to impose selfish desires upon others.

And it is not restricted to household affair if one read the context of 1 Conrinthians 14.

loud
post May 7 2015, 02:40 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ May 7 2015, 02:11 PM)
You're not the only one, everyone is together in this, even I'm on the way to hell if I did not accept Christ as my savior.
It's bit long winded to explain but here's the short summary of it, my take of it.

I believe there are 2  reasons why God allowed things to move on and not snap his finger as you said;

1. We are given his breath of life which is eternal. What is eternal cannot be destroyed, The essence of our spirit. Even though the body may rot and all that but the spirit lives on. Did God made a mistake? Definitely not. I'm glad to have existed and so many others. Glad to have experience love, pain and all that. Is it worth it? Yes IMO. And there are some so pained in life, they wished they've never existed. My point being, we are responsible for our own actions, not God. God did not create the problem, we did. To pin and blame it on God is just irresponsible and lazy way of excuse, IMO.
2. So that we understand what would happen if anyone is tempted to repeat the same mistake that Adam and Eve did in New Heaven and Earth, is it worth to go through all these crazy cycle again?
Definitely not, IMO. Point is, this world will be destroyed and a New one will emerge from God.

It is clear that it boils down to how one understands “freewill” in relation to good/bad and responsibility.
To be frank, good and evil is actually a conventional term. Harmful desires/actions basically arisen upon 2 conditions;
1. The failure to realize/understand its true consequence.
2. The failure to remember/be mindful of what has been learned.
And both of these are beyond one’s control. Although one can train oneself to be mindful or pursue more knowledge but that motivation/intention(to train/pursue) has to be supported by some extent of realization to begin with...which has to do with natural selection/exposure thus the argument supporting freewill and absolute individual responsibility actually overlooked the whole context of human behavior.

In summary, God is actually cursing those who have poor understanding and memory to eternal hell.

Furthermore, here’s what the bible implies about freewill;
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


QUOTE
1. No it's not based on that. We all have to learn humility and be submissive one way or another. Just like how we need to learn  to submit  to authority in hierarchy in corporate organization, same principal in this.

2. No, again, The Greek word, guné  1 Corinthians 14:34 is referring to wife. What is my basis? It's in the following verse.

35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.g

Do you see the word "OWN husband". The word own emphasize, so it's not referring to woman in general.
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But the fact women pastor/deacon preaching men remains as controversial till today.

This post has been edited by loud: May 7 2015, 02:43 PM
loud
post May 7 2015, 08:36 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ May 7 2015, 04:08 PM)
That is not true.  Actually you got it wrong, it's not this popular Atheist saying, God created Heaven and Hell and either you (force) believe in me or you go to hell. You have to erase that misconception out of your mind.

All of us have been separated from God by the corruption of sin, pass on from Adam. Satan deceived Eve. God held Eve, Adam and Satan accountable.
but more importantly God held Satan responsible and condemn primarily  him to eternal hell, whereas God killed an animal in sin atonement for Adam and Eve and also immediately executed a saving plan for all human kind.
Does that make God seem like He wants people to go to Hell? Definately not and I have tons of other scripture verse to prove that as well. But why is it that, that there are people who go to hell?
The answer is simple, it's because they rejected God and his saving plan, God is a gentleman, He will not force, When anyone rejects Him, Satan will come in and lay claim to that person's spirit and soul. Satan is just innately destructive and evil. And again before you say this, No God did not create Satan. I think I've explained this tons of times, lazy to repeat it.

Another thing is that, Many People have complained this world is messed up. I've seen the comment that the world is so crazy at time, this earth need a reset button. That is evidence the corruption of sin in this world. Well God is going to give us a new heaven and earth. To go there, the corruption of sin have to be removed from us and this is possible only through the blood of Christ, by acknowledging Him as your Saviour and let God change you in his power.

You don't really need rocket scientist mentality to understand this.

God does not hold people like Children and those mentally challenge/Childlike accountable and condemn them to eternal hell.
...
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I was trying to address this;
"My point being, we are responsible for our own actions, not God. God did not create the problem, we did."

You misunderstood my point and take it a few step too far. Let me repeat in another way.
Assuming those event spoken in the bible is true and God is real,
why do you think Satan choose to do harm? why a person choose to disobey God?
Aren't all these fall within the 2 parameters i mentioned;
1. The failure to realize/understand its true consequence.
2. The failure to remember/be mindful of what has been learned.

Please try reflect on your own past experience what is the conditions for any of your harmful action to manifest/persist?
I assure you one doesn't need to be mentally challenge to be subjected to those conditions. It has been part of our daily lives.

And don't always blame Satan la, see what James 1:14-15 say:
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

It has to do with one's own harmful desire but as i mentioned "harmful desire/action" manifest due to the 2 conditions not because a person senang-senang want to be bad for no reason.

This post has been edited by loud: May 7 2015, 08:48 PM
loud
post May 7 2015, 09:09 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ May 7 2015, 08:43 PM)
Yes it's part of our very being because it started from the corruption of sin, passed on from Adam.
We are responsible for our own actions.

Why Satan choose to do harm? Because of pride.
Why a person choose to reject God? Because of the nature of Sin, Bible term call it the works of the flesh, it is hostile and anti-God.

What I meant was God held Satan accountable and condemn Him to eternal punishment but for Adam and Eve and all man kind, God prepared a Salvation Plan.
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Neither pride nor sin(tendency to do harm) can arise in one's mind if one had truly recognized right/wrong and being mindful of it.
In other words, pride and sin is conditioned by ignorance and forgetfulness... is anyone with these 2 underlying tendencies deserved eternal damnation?
loud
post May 7 2015, 09:12 PM

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QUOTE(akhmedisonline @ May 7 2015, 08:47 PM)
Hi, I just trying to find out where atheist in malaysia came from. help.
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From anywhere... leaving religion and taking the default position.
loud
post May 7 2015, 09:19 PM

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QUOTE(akhmedisonline @ May 7 2015, 09:15 PM)
so, all of u guys originally believe in something or practicing religion, but then decided become atheist?
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Not all. Depends on how people are raised. Me come from polytheistic background.
loud
post May 7 2015, 09:31 PM

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QUOTE(akhmedisonline @ May 7 2015, 09:25 PM)
correct me if Im wrong,your background means you were raised by parents with different believe?
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No. It is belief in many gods and deities.

loud
post May 7 2015, 09:48 PM

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QUOTE(akhmedisonline @ May 7 2015, 09:41 PM)
ic...
how you become polysthetic?
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Was raised to believe in more than one god.
Check out the Sintua thread.
loud
post May 7 2015, 10:02 PM

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QUOTE(akhmedisonline @ May 7 2015, 09:54 PM)
so you was raised as a believer..
what makes you a disbeliever?
are you still finding, or already moved on?
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Rationality and self-honesty.
sembang lain kali...got to leave now.

You can ask others here too:
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/3241500



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