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 Ultimate Discussion of ASNB (47457-V), Wholly owned subsidary of PNB (38218-X)

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Ramjade
post Aug 18 2015, 02:06 PM

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QUOTE(dasecret @ Aug 18 2015, 02:02 PM)
I surrender  doh.gif
Good luck to you, my conscience is clear

At least I know ppl like aeiou got the point
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You are saying SC can change it to floating price right? That part I understand. What if they decided not to change?
hyelbaine
post Aug 18 2015, 02:15 PM

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QUOTE(alexanderclz @ Aug 18 2015, 12:11 PM)
scary thoughts but most probably will extend the exemption
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People tend to forget, this is Malaysia and all also boleh wan. Remember for god knows how long regulators such as SC told PNB/ASNB that there's no more fixed priced funds after AS1M? Lo and behold the PM just override all the rules/regulations and just launch ASB2.

I guess the same could be said about AS1M too and how big of a gap between AS1M's launch date and the last fixed priced fund previous to that.

Exemption done by regulators are there for a reason but political needs will almost always certainly overrule everything.

So, if you want a new fixed priced fund, get a new PM in laugh.gif
smartinvestor01
post Aug 18 2015, 02:19 PM

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QUOTE(nexona88 @ Aug 18 2015, 11:53 AM)
The bolded part. so it's mean starting 2016, all Fixed price fund change into floating NAV just like ASG or any other UTs  hmm.gif
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Oh my gosh, i have forgotten about that..

I should be taking note on that on whether someday the fixed price would be converted to variable price someday..

Especially with the free fall happening in the local stock market.. blush.gif
smartinvestor01
post Aug 18 2015, 02:22 PM

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QUOTE(aeiou228 @ Aug 18 2015, 12:49 PM)
Very good piece of info, thanks.
I've been searching left right centre in 2015/2016 master prospectus and asked in this thread about the fixed price policy but to no avail. Upon reading your post, I re-checked again the 2015/2016 MP if the clauses are still there and yes, I finally found it. At page 68, 5.6.2.
You are right, the underlying risk is whether SC will approve the extension of fixed-price fund if the actual NAV is not up to the par due to falling market.
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Oh no, more discovery identified..

I believe its only a matter of time if this economy environment persist.

But i think its time to ponder on that million dollar question which sure would impact many of us here..

This post has been edited by smartinvestor01: Aug 18 2015, 02:26 PM
Ramjade
post Aug 18 2015, 02:30 PM

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QUOTE(hyelbaine @ Aug 18 2015, 02:15 PM)
People tend to forget, this is Malaysia and all also boleh wan. Remember for god knows how long regulators such as SC told PNB/ASNB that there's no more fixed priced funds after AS1M? Lo and behold the PM just override all the rules/regulations and just launch ASB2.

I guess the same could be said about AS1M too and how big of a gap between AS1M's launch date and the last fixed priced fund previous to that.

Exemption done by regulators are there for a reason but political needs will almost always certainly overrule everything.

So, if you want a new fixed priced fund, get a new PM in  laugh.gif
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Well I am counting on the fact this is "Bolehland" which will ensure the continuity of fixed price. Worse come to worse, I will go back to FD until I learnt the stock market.
firee818
post Aug 18 2015, 02:32 PM

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QUOTE(alexanderclz @ Aug 18 2015, 12:08 PM)
24th. transactions will be suspended from 25 to 31st. but why not wait 1st september after the dividend is given?
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Thanks, as a deposit to buy a car which is expected to arrive at the month end.
smartinvestor01
post Aug 18 2015, 02:38 PM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ Aug 18 2015, 02:30 PM)
Well I am counting on the fact this is "Bolehland" which will ensure the continuity of fixed price. Worse come to worse, I will go back to FD until I learnt the stock market.
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Yes, you are right..

Though we are not in support of fixed deposit, someday, i believe we might still need it once the regulations are altered,..

I heard that there was a history before on the conversion of fixed price fund to variable price, right? Is it ASN fund series?

This post has been edited by smartinvestor01: Aug 18 2015, 02:40 PM
hyperyouth_firepower
post Aug 18 2015, 02:45 PM

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hey hi folks.

This is my first time posting in here.

I've married for 3 years, and now my finances have stabilized (cut all debt etc, now only left occasional CC debt)

I'm thinking of putting say RM300-500 per month into my wife's ASNB (amanah saham bumiputera), since I cannot and will not have an ASNB account of my own. However, from reading from page 1 to the 30s and all, (as well as the first page), I get the impression that

a) putting money / savings into ASNB = bad move compared to putting it into a FD?
b) ASNB doesn't 'reinvest' payouts into new units, but instead in cash?


Just to point out, i'm no masochist, and me and my wife are playing it safe, as safe as possible (even though the real caveat is that the savings will grow super slow, but its alright, we just want it to be safe, protected, and we're quite conservative, not the daring kind ala economic hitman)

From what I gather, if by luck i can ever max out ASB (if I can ever, like in 20 years), before even thinking of opening up other accounts at RM200k, the best way to achieve this is to conservatively put in a few hundred up to thousands of RM into ASB and leave it alone. Correct?
Hansel
post Aug 18 2015, 03:11 PM

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QUOTE(dasecret @ Aug 18 2015, 11:36 AM)
I've attempted to remind people about ASx funds, but people is this thread seem to be too defensive to pay attention
So, for the benefit of the other readers, I will just lay down the facts again...

ASx funds are 100% Malaysia equity funds, just like the public mutual funds etc - early this year KLSE was 1850 points, now left 1570 points, do you think the fund make profit or make losses? Look at all the other floating rate funds in the market, including the ASG type

How come the price for ASx funds are still fixed at RM1 per unit?

http://www.asnb.com.my/pdf/PRODUK/Master_P...314complete.pdf

Pay attention to page 31,
5.12.2 Bases of Valuation on Investments for ASB, ASW 2020, ASM, ASD and AS 1Malaysia
The introduction of MFRS requires the Funds to apply NAV in its valuation bases and processes. The SC has
specified that the Fixed-Priced Unit Trust Funds are permitted but not required to comply with MFRS 139 and MFRS
7 for the financial years ending 31 December 2012 until 31 December 2015, subject to terms and conditions imposed
by SC.

If these funds follow floating NAV, what would be the value now?

Honestly, I don't think it's so easy for the gov to steal your money from the fund, after all it's guarded by trustee and all...
But.... is your money still worth as much? particularly in a falling market?

Just be aware that this is not FD, it was never meant to be
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Something just occered to me : I first bought these ASM and ASW2020 funds back in 2007 and as far as I can remember, the price has been stable and fixed at RM1.00 since then. Basng on the information abt 31 Dec 2012 till 31 Dec 2015, then can we say the fixed-price system of Rm1.00 per unit has been extended at least once, and that was around December 2012 ? Are we able to find the ann't ?
dasecret
post Aug 18 2015, 03:21 PM

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QUOTE(Hansel @ Aug 18 2015, 03:11 PM)
Something just occered to me : I first bought these ASM and ASW2020 funds back in 2007 and as far as I can remember, the price has been stable and fixed at RM1.00 since then. Basng on the information abt 31 Dec 2012 till 31 Dec 2015, then can we say the fixed-price system of Rm1.00 per unit has been extended at least once, and that was around December 2012 ? Are we able to find the ann't ?
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I'm not sure how the previous fixed price works, but it has always been fixed
As to why 31 Dec 2012, simple, MFRS 139 was effective from 31 Dec 2012 financial year ends hence it was necessary to give exemption to these funds as they do not comply with MFRS 139... but all these really doesn't matter

yawn.gif
What matters is... this is not FD, the risks of floating funds apply to these funds too....

What amazes me is... aren't you guys interested how much the underlying assets is worth? What if it's only worth RM0.50 per unit now? Why do you want to pay RM1.00 for a RM0.50 asset? Just because you were promised you can sell it for RM1.00 next time?
smartinvestor01
post Aug 18 2015, 03:26 PM

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Here is some of my opinion on whether there would be an adjustment to convert the fixed price unit trust to variable price ones.

As you all know, all the funds such as ASM and AS1M reported to have retain some of their earnings from the income distribution almost every year.

As such, I believe the retained earnings might be meant to be distributed to the investors especially during bad economy performance like now..

do you agree? smile.gif
Hansel
post Aug 18 2015, 03:36 PM

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What smartinvster said has been considered too, and in fact has always been the reasons used for PNB being able to give out good divdiends year-after-year, in spite of the mkt doing good or bad. And the reports are able to provide some clues to this reason.

However, on the retained earnings holding-up the nav to be RM1.00, we have no clue to this. I too have searched high and low for the Actual nav of ASM and ASW, or for that matter AS1M and ASB too, but couldn't find anywhere.

Yes, to dasecret,... of course I am keen to know the Actual nav, but this info is very elusive. Hence, the other way to go abt this is to look at the mkt fundamentals, sentiment of the unitholders, and finally past performances and behaviours to judge on whether the 'peg' to RM1.00 for each unit will be removed or not in future. Thank you for yr repl on the MFRS 139.

And yes, I know this is not FD,...hence the in-depth discussion and investigations done before 'backing up the truck' to load-up more of these fixed-price funds.

This post has been edited by Hansel: Aug 18 2015, 03:40 PM
smartinvestor01
post Aug 18 2015, 03:39 PM

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QUOTE(Hansel @ Aug 18 2015, 03:36 PM)
What smartinvster said has been considered too, and in fact has always been the reasons used for PNB being able to give out good divdiends year-after-year, in spite of the mkt doing good or bad. And the reports are able to provide some clues to this reason.

However, on the retained earnings holding-up the nav to be RM1.00, we have no clue to this. I too have searched high and low for the Actual nav of ASM and ASW, or for that matter AS1M and ASB too, but couldn't find anywhere.

Yes, to dasecret,... of course I am keen to know the Actual nav, but this info is very elusive. Hence, the other way to go abt this is to look at the mkt fundamentals, sentiment of the unitholders, and finally past performances and behaviours to judge on whether the 'peg' to RM1.00 for each unit will be removed or not in future. Thank you for yr repl on the MFRS 139.
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Yape, to be on a safer side, we should monitor the NAV as well..

Who knows the low NAV would trigger the conversion of the fixed price fund..
wil-i-am
post Aug 18 2015, 03:41 PM

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QUOTE(alexanderclz @ Aug 18 2015, 10:57 AM)
no more activity from @guy3288 ?
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Perhaps deliberating after discovered latest 'disclaimer'

plumberly
post Aug 18 2015, 03:42 PM

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The concern on fixed to variable price change was raised earlier (will we be informed prior to the change etc). The additional infor I did not know was the 31 Dec 2015 date. Useful infor to keep in mind now. Yes, guilty, I did not read the prospectus!

I have emailed to ASNB on whether the funds will be changed to VP funds as of 1-Jan-2016 and if so, when will the existing unit holders be informed of the coming change.

I will share their reply here once I get it. nod.gif

Cheerio.

P/S If you have a copy of the prospectus before 2011, please share here. Thanks.



ikanbilis
post Aug 18 2015, 03:49 PM

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QUOTE(dasecret @ Aug 18 2015, 03:21 PM)
I'm not sure how the previous fixed price works, but it has always been fixed
As to why 31 Dec 2012, simple, MFRS 139 was effective from 31 Dec 2012 financial year ends hence it was necessary to give exemption to these funds as they do not comply with MFRS 139... but all these really doesn't matter

yawn.gif
What matters is... this is not FD, the risks of floating funds apply to these funds too....

What amazes me is... aren't you guys interested how much the underlying assets is worth? What if it's only worth RM0.50 per unit now? Why do you want to pay RM1.00 for a RM0.50 asset? Just because you were promised you can sell it for RM1.00 next time?
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If the underlying assets is only worth 50sen a unit as you said, this is just another PONZI scheme! But don't worry this PONZI will not bust as long as got pipu believe they could sell at RM1.00. They will keep buying into it to keep the PONZI alive!

MGM
post Aug 18 2015, 03:51 PM

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Between Oct97 to May99 KLSE was below 750 and hit rock bottom in Aug98 at 300. ASB which was launched in 1990 and ASW in 1996 still surivive until now and the prices still fix at RM1. Was the situation then better than now?

When I am free I would redirect all the negative comments to ASNB to seek their answers for peace of mind. tongue.gif

This post has been edited by MGM: Aug 18 2015, 03:57 PM
wil-i-am
post Aug 18 2015, 03:53 PM

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When ASNB launched ASN in 1981, it was Fixed price. Later, they convert ASN from Fixed to Variable price in 1991
During tis time, ASNB give choice to unit holders whether they wud like to convert to ASB or stay put
Thus, no worry as ASNB will make announcement earlier in the event they intend to convert ASW/ASM/AS1M from fixed to variable
Hansel
post Aug 18 2015, 03:53 PM

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QUOTE(plumberly @ Aug 18 2015, 04:42 PM)
The concern on fixed to variable price change was raised earlier (will we be informed prior to the change etc). The additional infor I did not know was the 31 Dec 2015 date. Useful infor to keep in mind now. Yes, guilty, I did not read the prospectus!

I have emailed to ASNB on whether the funds will be changed to VP funds as of 1-Jan-2016 and if so, when will the existing unit holders be informed of the coming change.

I will share their reply here once I get it.  nod.gif

Cheerio.

P/S If you have a copy of the prospectus before 2011, please share here. Thanks.
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Thank you, Plumberly,... for this initiative. Writing would be more effective, if they reply. I asked them verbally and they said to just wait for any related public ann't, if there is. Please update us on the official reply from PNB.
wil-i-am
post Aug 18 2015, 03:58 PM

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QUOTE(MGM @ Aug 18 2015, 03:51 PM)
Between Oct97 to May99 KLSE was below 750 and hit rock bottom in Aug98 at 300. ASB which was launched in 1990 and ASW in 1996 still surivive until now and the prices still fix at RM1. Was the situation then better than now?
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During financial crisis in 2007/2008, ASNB oso maintain the Fixed price fund @ RM1/unit n withstand the Selling pressure
After goin thru 2 major crisis, m confident tat ASNB will ride thru current 'storm' calmly

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