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 LYN Proton Saga/Iswara Driver's Thread! V28, Keep on Keeping on!

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Albert B
post Oct 14 2017, 12:50 PM

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QUOTE(delsoo @ Oct 14 2017, 12:46 PM)
Yes, there's also some oil stains in the radiator... If without the kit that you shown earlier, can remove the spark plug ourselves ?
*
No, the plug removal needs the correct tools. If it is
too tight, let the mechanic handle this.

There should be no oil in the radiator. But I am not sure
in your case it is sign of
1) gasket failure
2) engine block cracked
3) engine head warped

All of which need major overhaul. However in your case
you are losing lots of oil, there should be lots of it in the radiator....

This post has been edited by Albert B: Oct 14 2017, 01:00 PM
delsoo
post Oct 14 2017, 01:00 PM

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QUOTE(Albert B @ Oct 14 2017, 12:50 PM)
No, the plug removal needs the correct tools. If it is
too tight, let the mechanic handle this.

There should be no oil in the radiator. But I am not sure
in your case it is sign of
1) gasket failure
2) engine block cracked
3) engine head warped

All of which need major overhaul. However in your case
you are losing lots of oil, there should be lots of it in the radiator....
*
Major overhaul how much? BTW, what's the purpose of checking the spark plug gt oil stains or not?

This post has been edited by delsoo: Oct 14 2017, 01:01 PM
delsoo
post Oct 14 2017, 01:03 PM

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QUOTE(Albert B @ Oct 14 2017, 12:50 PM)
No, the plug removal needs the correct tools. If it is
too tight, let the mechanic handle this.

There should be no oil in the radiator. But I am not sure
in your case it is sign of
1) gasket failure
2) engine block cracked
3) engine head warped

All of which need major overhaul. However in your case
you are losing lots of oil, there should be lots of it in the radiator....
*
I am not sure it's a lot or not. I defined 100 % as the max level, lower end of dipstick = 0%. The oil level dropped from 75%level to about 40% level...
Albert B
post Oct 14 2017, 01:12 PM

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QUOTE(delsoo @ Oct 14 2017, 01:03 PM)
I am not sure it's a lot or not. I defined 100  % as the max level, lower end of dipstick = 0%. The oil level dropped from 75%level to about 40% level...
*
That is not a lot. Initially when you said half the oil
I thought half of the 3.5 litres in the crankcase....

Max - min lines of the dipstick do not represent the whole
of the oil in the engine, just the maintenance level ....

But is still losing oil, though not as serious as initailly
thought.

The spark plugs will show oil loss as follows:

1) wet oil on the electrodes/insulator = piston rings
letting oil through into the combustion chamber

2) burnt oil on one side of the insulator = oil leaking
past the valve seals dripping down into the chamber.
delsoo
post Oct 14 2017, 01:25 PM

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QUOTE(Albert B @ Oct 14 2017, 01:12 PM)
That is not a lot. Initially when you said half the oil
I thought half of the 3.5 litres in the crankcase....

Max - min lines of the dipstick do not represent the whole
of the oil in the engine, just the maintenance level ....

But is still losing oil, though not as serious as initailly
thought.

The spark plugs will show oil loss as follows:

1) wet oil on the electrodes/insulator = piston rings
letting oil through into the combustion chamber

2) burnt oil on one side of the insulator = oil leaking
past the valve seals dripping down into the chamber.
*
Then does it means about 35 % of the oil had been lost? From 75 to 40 % according to oil level shown on dipstick
Albert B
post Oct 14 2017, 01:53 PM

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QUOTE(delsoo @ Oct 14 2017, 01:25 PM)
Then does it means about 35 % of the oil had been lost? From 75 to 40 % according to oil level shown on dipstick
*
No.

It is not calculated like that.

If you want to calculate based on the dipstick indicator,
you need to know the area of the oil surface in the crankcase.
And the distance from the oil surface to the bottom ...
Furthermore the shape of the crankcase is not uniform, so
even if you try, it is not accurate at all.

The easiest way to know is to measure how much oil was
added to the required level, by using a container of known
volume to measure the amount that was added.


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feralee
post Oct 14 2017, 02:37 PM

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QUOTE(delsoo @ Oct 14 2017, 12:39 PM)
Complete overhaul? Or top overhaul? How much?
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Better do complete since already open the top.


Labour is about RM600

Part u buy yrself cheaper

domo_kun
post Oct 14 2017, 03:49 PM

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QUOTE(Albert B @ Oct 14 2017, 09:35 AM)
1)  Yes the "temperature switch" means the ON-OFF control for the fan
is also called the "thermo switch". It is the one at the bottom of
the radiator. The bars display does not use the signal from this, it gets
it from the sender unit at the manifold.  BTW, the switch was changed due
to some problem? Is it the same temperature specification as the original?

2) The fan on-off indicates the system is working; probably the 4th bar
is some inaccuracy, OR could be indicating some lesser efficiency of
heat removal, especially during high load or slow moving speeds. Does
the appearance of the 4th bar correspond to situations like these?
However, if the 4th bar comes ON when the radiator fan has cut out,
maybe it is inaccurate display, or the new switch is operating at higher
cut out temperature.
*
1) Switch was changed because no one is able to find out what's the problem, or where the problem comes from... So, bit by bit, trial and error, LOL!

2) It's super random, I can't tell when it'll goes up to 4 or when it'll maintain at 3. When the car is idle, it's almost always at 3 bars. Super random, really. All the way to KLCC today no jam, it maintained at 3 bars until I was parking the car in the basement, then it suddenly turned 4 bars. LOL. Then, from KLCC to Time Square, no problem at all, 3 bars all the way. After that, from Time Square back home, slow moving all the way through Sg Besi highway for 30 minutes or so... 3 bars. Vomit blood already...

doh.gif doh.gif doh.gif doh.gif doh.gif

By the way, Sony Xplod HUD died after almost 10 years of service. Any suggestion which unit to get, and where to get a replacement? Budget around RM200. Brothers?
Albert B
post Oct 14 2017, 04:33 PM

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QUOTE(domo_kun @ Oct 14 2017, 03:49 PM)
1) Switch was changed because no one is able to find out what's the problem, or where the problem comes from... So, bit by bit, trial and error, LOL!

2) It's super random, I can't tell when it'll goes up to 4 or when it'll maintain at 3. When the car is idle, it's almost always at 3 bars. Super random, really. All the way to KLCC today no jam, it maintained at 3 bars until I was parking the car in the basement, then it suddenly turned 4 bars. LOL. Then, from KLCC to Time Square, no problem at all, 3 bars all the way. After that, from Time Square back home, slow moving all the way through Sg Besi highway for 30 minutes or so... 3 bars. Vomit blood already...

doh.gif  doh.gif  doh.gif  doh.gif  doh.gif

By the way, Sony Xplod  HUD died after almost 10 years of service. Any suggestion which unit to get, and where to get a replacement? Budget around RM200. Brothers?
*
That means if you are confident the 4th bar is not anything to do
with overheating and wish to pursue the trial-and-error process,
then it is the temperature gauge sensor's (sender unit) turn.
See below for its location.

If the 4th bar comes on, and the fan is does not start, and the opposite
is also true, it is confirmed that it is some quirk of the display circuit.

You might want to jiggle it a little bit to see if it makes any difference.
Beware however, the plastic plug socket is fragile and will disintegrate
as happened in my case (I just bound it back with insulating tape). Or,
replace it....

I am not familiar with the stereo unit, so unable to comment on it.

This post has been edited by Albert B: Oct 14 2017, 04:37 PM


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domo_kun
post Oct 14 2017, 08:48 PM

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QUOTE(Albert B @ Oct 14 2017, 04:33 PM)
That means if you are confident the 4th bar is not anything to do
with overheating and wish to pursue the trial-and-error process,
then it is the temperature gauge sensor's (sender unit) turn.
See below for its location.

If the 4th bar comes on, and the fan is does not start, and the opposite
is also true, it is confirmed that it is some quirk of the display circuit.

You might want to jiggle it a little bit to see if it makes any difference.
Beware however, the plastic plug socket is fragile and will disintegrate
as happened in my case (I just bound it back with insulating tape). Or,
replace it....

I am not familiar with the stereo unit, so unable to comment on it.
*
WTF, it's just that one small thing? LOL! Come to think about it, usually when it turned up to 4 bars, it's while I'm on the road... So, I can't really check on the fan. Hmmm... I'm not sure if it would make any differences, but well... Still need to find out the cause of it. Some experience on overheating, it'll go straight up to 5 bars, and it'll blink. Speaking from personal experience, I was an idiot back then; it was completely dry. No water at all. That was why it went up to 5 bars. This time, it just stick to 3 and 4 and 3 and 4 again. So... LOL. Funny la, in a way.

Oh, by the way, do you know where is the switch to tune the RPM? I think mine is a little too high... It's running at 1.5 at times when the car is idle with air con. Off the air con, and it's at 1

This post has been edited by domo_kun: Oct 14 2017, 08:51 PM
Albert B
post Oct 14 2017, 09:39 PM

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QUOTE(domo_kun @ Oct 14 2017, 08:48 PM)
WTF, it's just that one small thing? LOL! Come to think about it, usually when it turned up to 4 bars, it's while I'm on the road... So, I can't really check on the fan. Hmmm... I'm not sure if it would make any differences, but well... Still need to find out the cause of it. Some experience on overheating, it'll go straight up to 5 bars, and it'll blink. Speaking from personal experience, I was an idiot back then; it was completely dry. No water at all. That was why it went up to 5 bars. This time, it just stick to 3 and 4 and 3 and 4 again. So... LOL. Funny la, in a way.

Oh, by the way, do you know where is the switch to tune the RPM? I think mine is a little too high... It's running at 1.5 at times when the car is idle with air con. Off the air con, and it's at 1
*
1) Actually, in addition to that small thing, there are electronic circuits
in the instrument panel for LMST; compared to the Iswara which have
only analog dials.

2) The hot idle adjustment screws are on the left (passenger) side of
the carburettor, see below. Not applicable to warming up from cold
stage which have its own screws on the right (driver) side. You can
ask someone to switch the air-cond ON and OFF and you can observe
how it works.


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feralee
post Oct 15 2017, 08:41 AM

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QUOTE(domo_kun @ Oct 14 2017, 03:49 PM)


doh.gif  doh.gif  doh.gif  doh.gif  doh.gif

By the way, Sony Xplod  HUD died after almost 10 years of service. Any suggestion which unit to get, and where to get a replacement? Budget around RM200. Brothers?
*
http://www.xciteaudio.com/
Kbbteoh
post Oct 15 2017, 10:28 AM

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QUOTE(domo_kun @ Oct 14 2017, 03:49 PM)
1) Switch was changed because no one is able to find out what's the problem, or where the problem comes from... So, bit by bit, trial and error, LOL!

2) It's super random, I can't tell when it'll goes up to 4 or when it'll maintain at 3. When the car is idle, it's almost always at 3 bars. Super random, really. All the way to KLCC today no jam, it maintained at 3 bars until I was parking the car in the basement, then it suddenly turned 4 bars. LOL. Then, from KLCC to Time Square, no problem at all, 3 bars all the way. After that, from Time Square back home, slow moving all the way through Sg Besi highway for 30 minutes or so... 3 bars. Vomit blood already...

doh.gif  doh.gif  doh.gif  doh.gif  doh.gif

By the way, Sony Xplod  HUD died after almost 10 years of service. Any suggestion which unit to get, and where to get a replacement? Budget around RM200. Brothers?
*
Just add one more ground cable or thicker ground cable from digital meter to car chassis. your problem will be solved !
SUSTham
post Oct 15 2017, 01:07 PM

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QUOTE(delsoo @ Oct 14 2017, 03:51 AM)
230k
*
About same as mine.

Some oil drop, maybe a quarter of your dipstick every 1,000
- 1,500 km, is normal by this time.

My third, followed by my second, now my first too, spark plugs
will fouled up with some oil on the lower insulator and electrodes.

I have to take them out and clean them every few weeks, definitely
not more than a month.

I have changed my valve seals twice - initially improved for the
first few months after the first change, then the third one started
fouling again, which the mechanics couldn't figure out.

I know my piston rings are bound to be a bit loose by this time.

Your piston rings, valve seals, engine cover rubber, etc, are
also bound to be a bit loose by now.

If oil is in your radiator, first thing to look at is your cylinder head
gasket.

Go to your friendly mechanic, ask them to check it out.

To save money, ask if maybe you can just change the head gasket
for a start.

They will also change new valve seals, and grind your valves at the
same time. Ask then to check out the valve stem inserts too (the
metal cylinders which the valves slide up and down).

The last I heard a few years ago, this will cost about $450,
excluding the valve inserts.

The gasket kits which they give you or buy in the parts shops
may not contain Viton valve seals, usually the cheapest nitrile
types, poor heat resistance.

Go buy a set of good Viton valve seals yourself and pass it
to your mechanic. Around $ 30 for 12 seals.

Temperature range of valve seal materials -

Nitrile - 250 deg F
Polyacrylate - 300 F (like the NOK brown types)
Viton - 400 F (like NOK green types)
Teflon - 500 F (usually not used, since teflon is hard and not
flexible when heated up)

If you do a full overhaul (haul up the whole engine, change
piston rings too), I understand this will cost around $1,500
these days with their parts.

Maybe just $500 - 600 for labour alone, if you buy own parts,
like the other poster said.



The amount of oil from top to bottom of dipstick marks
is just about one liter, actually.



This post has been edited by Tham: Oct 15 2017, 01:16 PM
SUSTham
post Oct 15 2017, 01:13 PM

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QUOTE(Albert B @ Oct 1 2017, 09:55 AM)
Yes 3rd party, no fire/theft. I thought only comprehensive
comes with fire/theft. Anyway isn't 3rd party+fire+theft is
equivalent of two-thirds of comprehensive in terms of benefits?


Your comprehensive comes with loading? I thought only for 3rd
party they will load based on age of car & driver.
*
Albert, which company you bought your third party from ?

How much, and any loading ?

Maybe I will buy that next year.

I have bought Tune from post office, $ 260. Loading 15 percent.

Axa quoted me about $170 for third party fire/theft, no loading.

So I thought might as well buy comprehensive from post office.






domo_kun
post Oct 16 2017, 07:42 AM

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QUOTE(Albert B @ Oct 14 2017, 09:39 PM)
2) The hot idle adjustment screws are on the left (passenger) side of
the carburettor, see below. Not applicable to warming up from cold
stage which have its own screws on the right (driver) side. You can
ask someone to switch the air-cond ON and OFF and you can observe
how it works.
*
Ahhh, didn't realize all this until now that you mentioned it... Hehe, thank you, thank you. You're enthusiast or you repair car?
domo_kun
post Oct 16 2017, 07:43 AM

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QUOTE(feralee @ Oct 15 2017, 08:41 AM)
Err, online only? I think Brothers has some cheaper... I remember seeing one less than RM300 with Bluetooth some more... Hehe.

QUOTE(Kbbteoh @ Oct 15 2017, 10:28 AM)
Just add one more ground cable or thicker ground cable from digital meter to car chassis. your problem will be solved !
*
How?
Kbbteoh
post Oct 16 2017, 09:25 AM

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QUOTE(domo_kun @ Oct 16 2017, 07:43 AM)
Err, online only? I think Brothers has some cheaper... I remember seeing one less than RM300 with Bluetooth some more... Hehe.
How?
*
send to the workshop, they will help u do. The dash plastic is very fragile, once u broken cant recover. workshop have special prying tools to do that.
feralee
post Oct 16 2017, 09:30 AM

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QUOTE(domo_kun @ Oct 16 2017, 07:43 AM)
Err, online only? I think Brothers has some cheaper... I remember seeing one less than RM300 with Bluetooth some more... Hehe.
How?
*
They have store at kepong.

U can survey first before buying. Compare first with brothers.

But u need to find installer

At garage sales they also selling

Albert B
post Oct 17 2017, 09:31 AM

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QUOTE(Tham @ Oct 15 2017, 01:13 PM)
Albert, which company you bought your third party from ?

How much, and any loading ?

Maybe I will buy that next year.

I have bought Tune from post office, $ 260. Loading 15 percent.

Axa quoted me about $170 for third party fire/theft, no loading.

So I thought might as well buy comprehensive from post office.
*
The premiums are calculated as follows:
Attached Image
Notes:
1) The 3rd party is without fire/theft; it is the bare
minimum to get the road tax renewed. The age loading
and NCD may vary. Without the PA it will be RM139.

2)Comprehensive does not come with loading. Just
straight premium discounted by the NCD.

3) Because of the PA the premiums are almost the same
for both cases. Old car 3rd party is really a raw deal.

4) Problem: Cars older than 10 years are not eligible for
comprehensive.

The post office gives a better deal, and I am thinking
of going there next ...

This post has been edited by Albert B: Oct 17 2017, 09:32 AM

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