Yup, He never said about driving a BMW, own a big house or to have a problem-free life!

Being supplied financially which is correct (refer to 2*). He didn't say You will be made RICH financially, that is twisting.

God says we will have whatever we say we want


I guess everyone doesnt want a BMW or a big house or a problem free life.

That is why I say people like you like to change his context.

He was referring to people cursing themselves.

Why do you think this was mentioned?



Same thing with Chinese people who like to say the word "sei" Means die.

And what does Proverbs 18:21 say?

(KJV) - Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Nov 3 2014, 10:42 PM

Maybe Jeremiah 17: 9 - The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?

Maybe we can ask a few spiritually mature christian to get some input. If most said the similar input, then might need to re-check some blind spot

You're just being his PR at this point, trying so hard to defend something he obviously said.

He gave an example of what happens when you never ask for the right stuff, you ask for the right stuff (say), then you'll get it.

Can you just....stop?

Yes the right stuff and he mentioned supplied financially, not supplied financially Rich like BMW, you twisted that.

Even God desire to give his children good gifts.

Don't know what is your problem.

Even the Bible says it like this


Mark 11:23

King James Bible

For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Nov 3 2014, 11:04 PM

Amen to that my brother

I want to ask a simple question.

As a Christian, who actually provide your needs?

Yourself or God?

This will determine whether you understand the principal which we are arguing about.

Who can answer?

Well to be honest.
I really give up. I think you should to.

Yes I agree this is not RWI. At least people in RWI will read what you have written, read what you have said in context.
Over here, things you have written get twisted. Bible verses get twisted just to suit the agenda.

If you read UW last reply to me, you will know what I mean. It's a waste of time, effort, energy to point out the mistake. When UW cannot defend a point, he just conveniently skip it. It's a waste of my research and effort to be honest. He just do not have the decency to answer the critical points, twist verses and misrepresent other people and after a while, he and his gang will then start name calling you and say that you are hostile, etc. He keeps on assuming things. He keeps on assuming that I am preaching a kind of works based "after-salvation" when if you read what I posted, it's not at all.

I think you are starting to realize that he twist what people write, misquote scriptures, misinterpret scriptures(very obvious in his last reply), etc. The only reason why I even replied here is probably because of you. After all I understand your frustration and so I decided to provide support for you. It's amazing that at his age, he still frequently does all those things.

Well, the thing is, sometimes, if you read the bible without the influence of the surrounding theology influencing you, you may find that the theology that you subscribe to may not coincide with what the bible says.
For example, take John Macarthur for example. I do not agree with some of the thing he says for example lordship salvation and age of accountability(Children below certain age) will definitely be saved. I also feel that he is not critical enough of people such as John Piper who has obviously gone the wrong track and is also one I suspected a long time ago before his association with Rick Warren.

Look. In the bible, it's mentioned that we have to be as wise as serpents and as innocent as dove. When you make a mistake, the devil can punish you very severely. You probably know that integrity in today's world means less as compared to yesterday's world. You see, saying " refuse the grace of christ, then they will not be saved by God's wrath" can mean serious problems for you. The thing is yes, we should spread the Gospel whenever we have the opportunity and at the right timing as well. There are ways of going about it too. Sometimes, instead of directly telling your friends the truth, you could probably bring them to a church and get your fellow brothers or sisters to talk to them.

The thing is. Yes, you could probably tell your friends the Gospel, but then would you be able to do so in a convicted way. What if your friends ask you, what right do you have to say that only your God is the real true God. How are you going to answer back to them. The thing is, you can't really tell them that the bible says so or that history says so or that Science says so. The thing is, timing is also very crucial. Also how much trust that person has in you is crucial.

Yes, I do my best to show everyone that Christianity is the truth. When I go to funnerals, I do not bow or chant. And I explain to people why I do not do that. I question some of the customs that are being practised as well and show that those customs are pretty much illogical and in fact rude. My entire family pretty much knows that I am a Christian who do not compromise.

I question islam openly espacially on Shariah Law. So most of the people I associate with kinda get the idea that I do not really approve of their religion.I question also the illogicality of Hinduism.

You see, almost everyone knows that we Christians do not approve of their religion. But then when we say those things directly, the situation gets worse. We are seen as unreasonable. There is always a time for everything. Jesus did not begin his ministry until he was 30 years old. He waited for the right moment to do so. The thing is, he could have started his ministry when he was a kid.

Actually Jesus love sinners, but not all sinners
I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. 10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them. 11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me,[ that they may be one as We are. 12 While I was with them in the world,[c] I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept;[d] and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. 13 But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves. 14 I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 15 I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. 18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.

Jesus Prays for All Believers
20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will[e] believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

24 “Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world. 25 O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me. 26 And I have declared to them Your name, and will declare it, that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them.”

A way of being a testimony towards God is to show love and concern to your friends and family. Also show your integrity. When people see that, then they will also see the truth in us.

Okay

Explain away, what it means, I want to hear your version of it's context.

Acts 10:15 (NIV) - The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean."

Hebrews 6:1 (NIV) - Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God,

Romans 5:17 (NIV) - For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

Jesus love sinners but not all sinners? what are you talking talking about? John 3:16 clearly said for God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believe in Him shall not perish but have eternal life

18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore[a] and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.[ Matthew 28:18 - 20

Ephesians 1:3 [ Redemption in Christ ] Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,

2 Peter 2:2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed.

i think this verse fit you the most, sylar

My problem is your ego.


for the 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000th time, I have no problem with God giving his children good gifts AKA HE DIED FOR OUR SINS/ GIFT OF ETERNAL LIFE.

But this keeps happening: I say "Prince says this this and this, so how can we not conclude that he teaches that God promises you wealth?"
You say "nonono you misunderstand him, he actually means that God will provide our needs, he didn't say that God will promise you richness"
To which I say "Your argument is based off reading your own meaning into what he meant to say, he is clearly saying that by being a Christian, you gain alot of wealth (in other words, being rich)"
Then you say "He means that God will provide our needs means he means that God will provide our needs, but you don't believe that God will make anyone rich and you believe that all christians should be poor"
To which I say "I didn't say that! I was only against Prince teaching that by believing in God, you will DEFINITELY gain alot of wealth"
Then you say "No he didn't mean that, you just don't believe that God will bless Christians"
To which I say "No! I said it before and I'll say it again, I believe that God blesses whom he blesses, but he didnt promise us all!"
Then you say "See Prince meant that by saying that by believing in God you will prosper, he meant something completely other than what the word prosper means"
To which I say "No, the selection of words that Prince used doesn't allow you to interpret it that way, the fact that he chose the English word prosper had to mean what it meant"
Then you say "You trust in man not the bible, come let me show you some prooftexts that God provides, but oh, you don't even believe that God provides"
To which I say "3rd time saying this, that is not what I'm talking about!"
Then you say "So just admit you lost the argument"
To which I say "Wait, we're talking about whether or not Prince is preaching the prosperity gospel"
Then you say "Here let me show you what the Bible says about God's provisions, but oh, you don't even believe that God provides"

...

^ - that is my problem.


Let me quote more from Prince from his book "unmerited favor":

"When the little boy brought his five loaves and two fishes to Jesus, did He gobble them up and say, ‘I am giving you a lesson in poverty?’ Of course not!… Jesus did not feed the multitudes with just enough food. He blessed them with more than enough food. He is the God of more than enough and that is His style. Likewise, Jesus wants to bless you with more than enough, so that you can be a blessing to others.” (p.238)"

"“Religion is blinding. Religion will tell you that ‘God’ wants you sick to teaching you character and patience. Religion will tell you that ‘God’ wants you poor, so that you will learn humility. It sounds noble, doesn’t it? But these are LIES from the pit of hell! Let me tell you this: It is the devil who wants you sick and poor, but the God I know paid a heavy price to redeem you from the curse of sickness and poverty!” (p.30)

^ this quote alone justifies him being called a false teacher! Christ died for the redemption of SIN, not poverty and sickness!



“The more occupied you are with Jesus, the more money follows after you! Now why is that? It is simply because when you seek first the kingdom of God, and put Jesus, His righteousness (not your righteousness), His joy and His peace as your first priority, God’s Word promises you that ALL the material things that you need will be added to you.” (pp.233-4)"
So when I throw all my welath away to become a missionary in a third world country, I'm not occupied enough with Jesus?

" “Don’t be afraid to use the word ‘prosperous.’ It’s God’s promise in the Bible.” (p.207)"

From his ministry website "God's promises on health and healing"

"This means that if you are sick, God’s heart is and will always be to heal and restore health and life to you. He so desires for you to walk in health and life that He gave you His beloved Son, Jesus, so that you might have life and have it more abundantly (John 10:10). God is for you to walk in abundant health and life. He does not want your body and life sapped, incapacitated or debilitated by pain, sickness and disease, and He will never withhold healing from you."

Mind you, the prosperity gospel doesn't have to only be about money, it can be the lie that "Believe in Jesus and he will cure your cancer".

I do think Prince is "on" to something by focusing on Christ in his ministry, but the way interprets what our salvation is is just baffling!

Common Luffy, don't resort to that.

Anyway,
This reply is just to tell you that, whenever I write, it will always attrack controversy.
See the few post after I have replied to you.

You know that they are one gang in here.

Now the name calling begins.

People here are hypocrites and ignorant. That is who they are.

This post has been edited by sylar111: Nov 3 2014, 11:27 PM

NVM.
I am more convince that's all.

i cannot bear it anymore when he said Jesus did not save all sinners on certain chosen sinners?
this is clearly hypocrite!

Please don't turn this thread into a monkey mudsling fight. This is not a place to call names.

You're right 0.0

The point you brought up about God loving sinners but not all sinners is a controversial one though, must admit. I understand what you mean because I know you're a Calvinist; but those people will definitely be rubbed the wrong way. They barely understand the diff between prosperity gospel and the real gospel, I have no idea how they're gonna take the whole Calvinism v Arminianism thing.

But yes, there's a time and place for everything. But even from a 5 point Calvinist point of view, since we do not know who exactly the elect are, we ought to preach to as many people as we can so that God, through us, will sovereignly save those whom he preordained to save. Because there's also the bit about how for every sinner who repents, heaven rejoices!


I suppose for the sake of the image of the Church, we should both bow out and sweep the dust off our feet: it doesn't seem possible to convince any of them. I would stay because as evidenced by a few of the posters here, many of them come here thinking that they can get a good idea of what Christianity is all about; But many of the things that are uttered here aren't a correct and faithful representation of the gospel ):

I even asked UW if he wanted to continue the discussion outside IRL over coffee or something, but he just insisted on debating on here.

I sincerely wish that the Church in Malaysia would be more united, but knowing that we just cannot be united with people who aren't even sure of the hope that they believe in just saddens me. What happened in America, according to Tim Keller was that when this "new atheist" movement came, what happened wasn't that many christians were losing their salvation, but that the squishy evangelicals who were like seed planted on dry ground were just swept away by this movement. I fear the same would happen here too hence why I really really really want these guys to open their eyes but arghh..

Thanks tho, it's always encouraging to meet another Christian here in Malaysia who takes God's word seriously!