Please don't turn this thread into a monkey mudsling fight. This is not a place to call names.

Apologies. Perhaps new rules should be developed for the thread? I tried to drop the conversation like three times, but UW showed no signs of wanting to drop it, so I continued.

Again, I am of the belief that these sort of discussions-if cannot be resolved due to one party clearly not understanding the other/vice versa- should be handled face to face IRL without the anonymity so that we can treat each other with due respect; also, perhaps why there's alot of miscomm is due to how there's no body language involved, so alot of the ideas trying to be pased on is misinterpreted.

Let me know if you guys wanna organize a TT session where we can talk more about this, or if you guys want to read the bible together. I'm not the free-est of people, but I might be able to make time!

I think this thread has potential to encourage non-believing LYN members to understand more about the Christian faith: but look, if they come in seeing how we christians can't even agree on the essentials, then we have failed as a "Christian" entity.

My problem is your ego.
for the 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000th time, I have no problem with God giving his children good gifts AKA HE DIED FOR OUR SINS/ GIFT OF ETERNAL LIFE.

But this keeps happening: I say "Prince says this this and this, so how can we not conclude that he teaches that God promises you wealth?"
You say "nonono you misunderstand him, he actually means that God will provide our needs, he didn't say that God will promise you richness"
To which I say "Your argument is based off reading your own meaning into what he meant to say, he is clearly saying that by being a Christian, you gain alot of wealth (in other words, being rich)"
Then you say "He means that God will provide our needs means he means that God will provide our needs, but you don't believe that God will make anyone rich and you believe that all christians should be poor"
To which I say "I didn't say that! I was only against Prince teaching that by believing in God, you will DEFINITELY gain alot of wealth"
Then you say "No he didn't mean that, you just don't believe that God will bless Christians"
To which I say "No! I said it before and I'll say it again, I believe that God blesses whom he blesses, but he didnt promise us all!"
Then you say "See Prince meant that by saying that by believing in God you will prosper, he meant something completely other than what the word prosper means"
To which I say "No, the selection of words that Prince used doesn't allow you to interpret it that way, the fact that he chose the English word prosper had to mean what it meant"
Then you say "You trust in man not the bible, come let me show you some prooftexts that God provides, but oh, you don't even believe that God provides"
To which I say "3rd time saying this, that is not what I'm talking about!"
Then you say "So just admit you lost the argument"
To which I say "Wait, we're talking about whether or not Prince is preaching the prosperity gospel"
Then you say "Here let me show you what the Bible says about God's provisions, but oh, you don't even believe that God provides"

...

^ - that is my problem.
Let me quote more from Prince from his book "unmerited favor":

"When the little boy brought his five loaves and two fishes to Jesus, did He gobble them up and say, ‘I am giving you a lesson in poverty?’ Of course not!… Jesus did not feed the multitudes with just enough food. He blessed them with more than enough food. He is the God of more than enough and that is His style. Likewise, Jesus wants to bless you with more than enough, so that you can be a blessing to others.” (p.238)"

"“Religion is blinding. Religion will tell you that ‘God’ wants you sick to teaching you character and patience. Religion will tell you that ‘God’ wants you poor, so that you will learn humility. It sounds noble, doesn’t it? But these are LIES from the pit of hell! Let me tell you this: It is the devil who wants you sick and poor, but the God I know paid a heavy price to redeem you from the curse of sickness and poverty!” (p.30)

^ this quote alone justifies him being called a false teacher! Christ died for the redemption of SIN, not poverty and sickness!
“The more occupied you are with Jesus, the more money follows after you! Now why is that? It is simply because when you seek first the kingdom of God, and put Jesus, His righteousness (not your righteousness), His joy and His peace as your first priority, God’s Word promises you that ALL the material things that you need will be added to you.” (pp.233-4)"
So when I throw all my welath away to become a missionary in a third world country, I'm not occupied enough with Jesus?

" “Don’t be afraid to use the word ‘prosperous.’ It’s God’s promise in the Bible.” (p.207)"

From his ministry website "God's promises on health and healing"

"This means that if you are sick, God’s heart is and will always be to heal and restore health and life to you. He so desires for you to walk in health and life that He gave you His beloved Son, Jesus, so that you might have life and have it more abundantly (John 10:10). God is for you to walk in abundant health and life. He does not want your body and life sapped, incapacitated or debilitated by pain, sickness and disease, and He will never withhold healing from you."

Mind you, the prosperity gospel doesn't have to only be about money, it can be the lie that "Believe in Jesus and he will cure your cancer".

I do think Prince is "on" to something by focusing on Christ in his ministry, but the way interprets what our salvation is is just baffling!

To be frank I can't follow the convo anymore.

But I want to say it's not fair for you to put all blame on UW.

Nor am I saying UW is God level of purity.

It takes two to clap. He have faults, you also have faults. The one thing I really don't like about these debates is that because UW reply the most, he is seen as the bad guy.
Nobody is perfect, chill. Everyone chill.

i cannot bear it anymore when he said Jesus did not save all sinners on certain chosen sinners?
this is clearly hypocrite!

Deck,

I want to ask you 2 questions.

So you don't believe that God is the one who gives you this ability?

Deuteronomy 8:18 (KJV) - But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.

And that Jesus paid the price so that we can be healed?

Isaiah 53:5 (KJV) - But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Okay end this (people complain liao): Just answer this question so that I know where you and Calvary stands on the issue: Why did Jesus die on the Cross?

Well it's gonna be hard for you to pass that judgment since you didn't read everything that was said so...
I think you make a choice as the TS: Do you want to permit debates, or do you NOT want to permit debates?

To save you? Because you can't save yourself? Because Sin must be punish? But because He loves you, He died on your behalf?

Why are you asking me such basic question?

People complaining you took me as a bad guy just because I reply everything.

Ok.

I already told you why I had to ask: just to be clear on the position of you and your church

It ends here.

I'm not the TS of the thread. I just help open a new thread. Got no mod power or anything like that.
Exactly why I am not passing and judgements. Because I just told everyone to calm down

A debate is NOT insulting each other
A debate is NOT a grudge match
A debate is NOT telling each other off/wrong/ect same as first point but nevermind.
I've been in such debates before. And flung my own fair share of church abuse hate stories around.

And it's not helping anyone. I feel bad, the other person feel bad, and then everyone feels bad.
Even a reply to me is already getting personal. Apa lagi a debate.

I'm not the TS of the thread. I just help open a new thread. Got no mod power or anything like that.
Exactly why I am not passing and judgements. Because I just told everyone to calm down

A debate is NOT insulting each other
A debate is NOT a grudge match
A debate is NOT telling each other off/wrong/ect same as first point but nevermind.
I've been in such debates before. And flung my own fair share of church abuse hate stories around.

And it's not helping anyone. I feel bad, the other person feel bad, and then everyone feels bad.
Even a reply to me is already getting personal. Apa lagi a debate.

lol, what is that suppose to mean? Oi come back n answer my 2 simple questions.

Yes you are;

As the Thread Starter, you get one honorary right.

Whatever you say, I will have to submit. pls dun ask me to 14th floor la. 

@TS

This is what I mean. This is the 4th time I'm telling him to just drop it, but this happens. I have no problem answering his questions, but it's gonna go in circles again. What say you, TS?

In this case, I also give you the power: You want us to proceed in our discussion that *might* be perceived as hostile, or not?

If I need to give verdict it will be this:

Everyone retire for the night and rest.
Clear heart, clear mind.
It's midnight now. Emotions run high at this hour.

If I need to give verdict it will be this:

Everyone retire for the night and rest.
Clear heart, clear mind.
It's midnight now. Emotions run high at this hour.

I will repeat this.

Everyone. Calm. Down.
Do you respect me as TS?