Decky,
You shouldn't be surprised.

The thing is, Christians in Malaysia are pretty much ignorant. They would not even know what liberalism is. They would probably not even have the substance to counter atheism.
And I include those Christians in the traditional church. They pretty much do not know what is going on in the outside world. They do not know the evil that has been done outside.
They are living in their comfort level. Basically, they are "satisfied" with themselves and kind of refuses to know what is going on. Questioning them will lead to you being treated differently.
Not saying all. But most.

You cannot even hold a discussion with them at an advanced level. They would not know what you are talking about. Their favourite defence is that you are not talking from the bible or you are speaking out of context.

In fact, the very leader here "Unknown Warrior" discourages people from going into Real Life Issues. He knows that members will be pretty much slaughtered when they get there because generally people over here are pretty much naive and they will feel "discourage".

Even though, many people dislike me. I do not get discouraged because I am standing on the truth.

To me, I would not even listen to people like Joel Osteen or Kong hee. Heck I would not even listen to John Piper. I have very high standard when it comes to trust. Break that trust, everything you say from nowonwards will be heavily scrutinized.


To me, I tried posting here but I think you know what is the reaction.
Yes, I sounded "hostile" but I cannot help it when truth is twisted. I tend to get angry.
In fact, I get angry for less then that.

This post has been edited by sylar111: Nov 3 2014, 11:39 AM

Decky.
We really should not worry about prosperity.
God provide us enough to sustain us.

If we are poor, it's Gods will. Rich, it's God's will as well.

We really shouldn't worry about God's providence because He will definitely provide for us.
Matthew 6:28
And why are you worried about clothing? Observe how the lilies of the field grow; they do not toil nor do they spin,

If we are given little, then we should manage little. If God decide to give us lots, we will manage lot and have more responsibility. But that is in God's providence.
When we die, we leave with nothing.

God can give. He can also take away.
Look at lot. God can allow Satan to take away everything even though Lot was a righteous person.

The thing is, most people who follow the prosperity gospel, are not even serious about God in the first place.
There is only so much we can say to them. After that, we should just sweep the dust from our feet and walk away.

That is what I have been doing.

Well, if I stand in the truth why not.
The light is not supposed to be covered, but is supposed to be exposed.
15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. 16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

If you are confident that you are speaking in truth, why are you so afraid of mud slinging. It's only when you are not confident, that you start getting afraid.

Why should my peace of mind get affected? Did Paul or Jesus think in the same manner as you? Nope. They preached the word even though they know that the outside world would reject them

I am more of a John Macarthur guy.

RC Sproul's sermons are not free.

But I read all kind of things.

This post has been edited by sylar111: Nov 3 2014, 11:57 AM

Nope. I am able to have the facts to counter their arguments.

Most of the time, they look very silly doing that.

They have to end up calling me names at the end.

I am not there nowadays. But you know I was there in the past.

I did b4. I think you saw that.
But then, what end up happening was that they started using names on me.
I am confident because I tend to look at things from a deeper point of view. The issue with Athiest is, they only look at the surface. But they cannot deal with the deeper issues.
That is what happens when you try to remove the spiritual aspect of things. You lose the "flavour". God is a spiritual being. So truth can only be fully understood when you look at it from a spiritual point of view and not just a materialistic point of view.

The thing is, when people have no interest in the truth, they will try all means to suppress it. Even using the most absurd means. No integrity at all. No matter how much you say, they will always suppress the truth.

As for right now, I do have more urgent things to do and I am not convicted to do anything right now.

I will not even worry about Joseph Prince at this point.

Too many people out there who loves controversy more then the truth.

I would prefer to focus on what's happening in the world right now.

Interesting how Satan hand seems to be working right now.

Just because there's name calling, it does not mean I should let name calling affect me from spreading the truth.
If I stand on the truth, whatever name calling they do on me, is only testiment that they are on the wrong. Yes, I do gain from that satisfaction. I feel satisfied when people have to resort to name calling to win the argument because that is to me the ultimate victory. When others have to resort to name calling, it means that I am even more convince of the truth.

The bible talks about entertaining vain phillosophies of the world. It talks about the "foolishness" of the truth. But then, it also says that eventually the "foolishness" of the truth will triumph the wisdom of the world. I do not think it talks about sily arguments.

You see, my mind set is different from yours. I do not need seek approval.

In fact, even to my pastor, I can discuss my disagreements to him. Yes, telling the church that you disagree with them on certain things will lead to you being more isolated but then that is what truth is about.

In fact, truth will cause even your own family to hate you.

If you are so afraid of proclaiming the truth, you are not worthy to be Jesus disciple.

i am reformed on most part.

But then when it comes to eschatology, I am a premil.
Reformed are generally amil.

I would not want to debate on eschatology with you right now. My church is reformed and amil. I openly told my pastor of my concerns of the amil position.
I still hold that God has a huge plan for the nation of Israel.

I do not believe in infant baptism, the theology whereby babies who die goes straight to heaven, and perheps some other things.
If you look at the previous thread, I question some of the bible versions that are out there.

The thing is, I really try not to let theology in general cloud my understanding of scriptures.
The reformed church seperated from the catholic church. Unfortunately, the reformed church also took along some of the questionable customs that were in the catholic church.

Well, I am convinced of my position on cessationalism. So, I would not really read that book since my position on this is already very strong.

This post has been edited by sylar111: Nov 3 2014, 12:52 PM

I have debated with SpikeMarlene before.

I would say that he is not really smart. In fact, I laugh everytime I debate with him because he always come out short. In the end, he has to defend his arrr stupidity.

The thing is, he is not really worth my time. I know his weak points. But then, for people like him, he will never admit to that.

Thing is, you guys over here would not debate with him. Because he would make you look very foolish. On the other hand, as I have said many times, most of the time, when someone debates with me, I would make that person look so foolish that he will have to resort to name calling in the end.

Currently I am with Serpang Grace Baptist Church.

Well, yes it's supposed to be reforming. Unfortunately, we are humans.
Most of the time, we trust our theology and our teachers more then the word of God.

Which church are you from?

Nope.
The bible says explicitly that Christians will be hated for proclaiming the truth.

The thing is truth seperates.

I am debating with them not out of spikefulness, but then out of love for the truth. When people spit on the truth, it makes me very angry.

I never said I hate them.

When I told my pastor that my views is different, it's not out of spikefulness. It's because my conscience tells me that if I do not agree with what the pastor says, I need to tell the pastor. Of course I have to do so in a nice way, but I do not have the conscience to nod my head in agreement with whatever the pastor says just to get his approval.

UW, why are you always assuming things. How old are you? I thought there is an age whereby people stop assuming things.
I never said I hate anyone. In fact, I really do not hate you. I just hate the way you keep on misrepresenting truth again and again.


PS: Decky, now you know why I do not post in this thread anymore. You see, most people here do not even know their fundamentals. That is why I decided not to waste my time debating. But then you are an exception to the case.

Well,
I never deny that.

I said that their behavior is comparable to the pharaisees. The pharaisees were people who knew the scriptures but still deny the truth when the truth was presented to them. I see a similar pattern overhere.
The thing is, when people deny truth to such a degree, I seriously doubt that the HS is in them. The bible talks about condemnation of false teachers. I see someone over here who is close to being that (not refering to you by the way).

One good example, it is well documented that Kong Hee has done many things. Yet, he is still promoted over here. After making Christians downgrade their apartment and yet he lives in luxury, this guy is still promoted over here. If you do not get angry something is wrong with you. Even non believers are angry with him. Christians are supposed to have a higher standard.

It's not just about understanding of scriptures. It's about denying the truth.

The thing is, yes, I was probably angry with you. But then, I do not keep my anger inside. Because after all, it will not profit me. I keep my anger within this thread that's all.

Sorry if I am blunt here.
But I got to say that you are pretty ill informed on the issue of Kong Hee. Google is the your best answer on this. Maybe if you make a practise of that, you will not find it burdensome to go to RWI. Because I would think in RWI, not doing simple things like googling, will make you look pretty bad.

Jesus told us to look at the fruits of the tree.
A bad tree produces bad fruits.
A good tree produces good fruits.

15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Yes. The bible tells us to beware of them.
The bible tells us to identify them.

So yes, looking at the fruits, we should be able to discern whether someone has the HS or not.

As for judging. God does tell us to judge fellow believers in the church.
6 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? 2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? 4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. 5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren? 6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers. 7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded? 8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren. 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

In fact, we are supposed to judge in matters in the church. We should not let outsiders interfere. When outsiders interfere like in the Kong Hee case, then it means we have failed.
Yes, we cannot condemned anyone to hell. But then the bible did say that false teachers will be condemned. We are just identifying what the bible teachers that's all. If false teachers have a change of heart, they will be saved as well. But then if they remain as they are, God will condemn them in the end.

Nope, it's clear to me that many are denying the truth.

Well, the bible does say.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Even demons acknowledge Jesus
Luke 4:41
Demons also were coming out of many, shouting, "You are the Son of God!" But rebuking them, He would not allow them to speak, because they knew Him to be the Christ.

So nope, not everyone who calls Jesus Lord are actually saved.

The context of the verse that you presented is more towards gifts. The whole context of 1 Corinthians 12 is on spiritual gift.
The manifestation of spiritual gifts would be as what you described on that verse.

Actually you should start from your church first. When you disagree with your brothers, tell them in a nice way.

As for friends, well, maybe you need to practise more discretion. The thing is, we should not deny that we are Christians. We also should not deny that non believers will not go to heaven.
But then, it will not be too wise to tell your friends that they will go to hell unless they convert. If they are interested in the truth, naturally they will ask you about it.

A false prophet is also one who preaches another christ.

Also, on judging. I have already stated the passage that states that we are supposed to discern whether a person has the holy spirit in him.
For your convenience, you overlook this.

Well, the passage that I provided only support the stance that scripturally judging is scriptural. It goes against your opinion that we should never judge others.

In fact
15 “If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

This shows pretty clearly that if someone remains in sin, we are supposed to treat him like an unbeliever.

I have already stated countlessly that ultimately, God judges whether a person is going to enter heaven or hell. We do not do the actual condemnation. We only do the identification that's all.


This post has been edited by sylar111: Nov 3 2014, 03:42 PM

It's not just about pointing out.
It's basically treating him as a non believer.
That is actually judging.

Also, again I have provided a passage that tells us to discern whether a person is really a Christian or not. I will leave it for you to find it out.
When your heart discerns that a person is not a believer, I would think it's practically judgement from the heart.

I will paste this again.
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Anyway just to remove the confusion
For no good tree bears bad fruit, nor again does a bad tree bear good fruit, 44 for each tree is known by its own fruit. For figs are not gathered from thornbushes, nor are grapes picked from a bramble bush. 45 The good person out of the good treasure of his heart produces good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure produces evil, for out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.

So it's not just about false prophets.

The ultimate judge still lies with God. As I have said clearly. But God does give us authority to judge in certain matters.

This post has been edited by sylar111: Nov 3 2014, 04:21 PM

If that's your definition, then yes we are in agreement.

But then in most cases, judging would probably mean seeing the wrong in others and pointing them out. I think that is what we should do.

This post has been edited by sylar111: Nov 3 2014, 04:51 PM

Well.
It seems on surface, we are in agreement.

Unfortunately the truth is narrow.

"why still act and live like a sinner?"

The thing is, if you look at the Gospels.
Jesus said that only the sick(sinners) need a doctor.
The pharaisees think they are not sick and thus they do not need one.

Also, it's stated explicitly that Jesus ate with sinners.

Only sinners recognize their inadequacies. They recognize that they are really nothing. Only sinners recognize that whatever they did before are not profitable. Sinners are able to forgive others because they recognize that they themselves are a sinner.

In other words, they recognize that God is justified in condemning them. But then because of God's grace, they are not condemned anymore.

Even Paul says that he is a sinner. He never used the word was
But I received mercy because I had acted ignorantly in unbelief, 14 and the grace of our Lord overflowed for me with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. 15 The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost.

The problem is that if you think you are not a sinner, then why would you need to repent.

Our Father in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
10 Your kingdom come.
Your will be done
On earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts,
As we forgive our debtors.
13 And do not lead us into temptation,
But deliver us from the evil one.
For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.

If we are not a sinner, why do we need to ask our Father to forgive our debts?

The thing is, even though we recognize that our sins have been forgiven because Jesus has died for us, but then we acknowledge that we are currently still sinners. We still commit sin. And we still need forgiveness.

In fact, because we are believers, we should recognize even more that we are sinners. We do things that displeases God. We make mistakes. We entertain evil thoughts. etc.
Since we are now even more sensitive to sin, we recognize even more that many of what we do daily are not acceptable and that is why we ask for God's forgiveness even more. We understand the inability of overcoming our sins by our own strength. So we ask God to help us in this.
We recognize that before we were believers, we do many things that shamed God's name. We really deserve death, etc.
It's only when we recognize that we are sinners, that we can only come to God with a humble heart. That we are able to recognize God's grace even more.

If you think you are no longer a sinner, why would you need God's grace?

This post has been edited by sylar111: Nov 3 2014, 06:43 PM