Hi guys. I am interested in buying a proposal ring right now. Need it by mid-December before I head to US. Therefore, all the inputs here by sifu will be very useful to me.

To start it off, before coming here, I have go around in MV-Gardens to survey for the diamond rings. Tomei, Goldheart, Love&co, Wah Chan, Poh Kong and Le Lumiere. From the 1st 2 shops, I still wasn't sure want I wanted in a diamond. Luckily, I met some good sales person who willing to explain to me all the 4C and also their products. At first, I set my minimum diamond as colour E, clarity VVS2, 3Ex cut and 0.4 carat; budget RM6k. But after going through the few initial shops, I realised that with that budget, I am unable to achieve that kind of diamond spec I wanted.  Then I went on to do my own 'homework' by researching and reading about diamonds. I learned that with limited budget, you can't always get the best of all 4C. Also putting Cut > Carat > Colour > Clarity as my priority. I have friends that disagree that cut should not be the most important of all 4C. Some said carat, some said colour and clarity. After all the readings and surveying, I still believe Cut is the most important factor for a good diamond. I remembered someone mentioned that "Cut is King", and I totally agree with that. No matter how big or how clear your diamond is, if it don't sparkle or shine brilliantly, it is not a perfect diamond for me.

Now, after all the above, I have now set my new minimum for a diamond; Cut has to be perfect, around 0.4 carat (+/-), clarity SI1 and colour G with budget >RM7k (including the ring). I am not sure if I can be getting this with this kind of budget. So far, I know Le Lumiere has the closest but with lesser carat (GIA 5256615959) and color (GIA 7261392761). Both are RM6688 and RM6388 respectively. Love&co, the specs might be lower if not mistaken but compared with Le Lumiere I saw, the diamond performance are better than Love&co; sparkles more brightly. Another option is to go for diamond and ring separately (like in Wah Chan). I looked for JannPaul and Brian Gavin; I have to say their diamond looks amazing (thou by picture and videos only) and it fulfill my requirements of good cut (Hearts and Arrows).

Here begins my headache moments. Although my gf once told me to decide on the diamond ring, I am unsure if I should go for those ready made well-known diamond ring brand (like Love&co, Hemera, Le Lumiere and etc) or should I go for those customize diamond and ring (like Brian Gavin, Audrey, Wah Chan, JannPaul and etc). Ladies and guys thinking may be a bit different you see... guys are more to technical stuff than just looking at brand (specs, performance, etc) while ladies usually go for brand (Tiff&co, Love&co, etc).

Any opinion or suggestion based on the above? If I were to order those diamonds from Brian Gavin for example, you think it can fit my budget and enough time to do the setting as well? Thought of JannPaul too but I don't know if can fit my budget as well. Worry if I go SG then end up with failure. Hope all the sifu here can give me some guidance.   
**Sorry to keep this one so long. I just hope my scenario here can help others as well when comes to decide on the proposal ring** 

Ahh, JannPaul. Their Super Ideals are very nice! But if you have a tight budget, I don't really recommend getting one cuz you would not be able to maximise carat weight. Since you ranked carat behind cut, it would be wise to find the perfect balance in between, i.e. the biggest stone with a good enough cut grade.

JannPaul (House of Hung, to be exact) do carry what I call near-Super-Ideal diamonds. These diamonds missed the cut due to one or two flaws in them, be it the HCA score, clarity characteristics, slight arrow misalignment, etc., but they are priced in their Ideal price bracket. My friend got one such diamond for quite a steal, and that particular piece was demoted from Super Ideal because it missed by a mere 0.1 in the HCA score! Yes, everything was of Super Ideal quality except that damn HCA haha.

I got my customised engagement ring from JannPaul as well but it was a heart shaped diamond on a Verragio. I thought that a round brilliant was too mainstream, that's why I opted for something unconventional. Moreover, my SO very subtly hinted that she prefers fancy shapes to round haha. Seriously, that saved me plenty of headache on diamond selection and I was able to really bump my carat weight up by a full 10 points with the heart shape based on my budget. My friend was quoted S$3,900 for his near-Super-Ideal 0.63 F VS1 round brilliant, while my 0.74 E IF heart was S$4,100! That's S$200 for an additional 0.11 carat, but I had to sacrifice on the bling factor. Fancy shapes have no match with their round counterparts in the bling department.

Haha I am sorry for this super long winded reply bro. Ohh yes, forgot to mention that you can actually deal with JannPaul via email instead of going all the way to Singapore. Once you have set your 4Cs requirement and a budget, they will search for a few diamond choices based on these guidelines and email you their scope images without any obligations. But bro, if you are customising your setting from scratch, you need to act fast bro, cuz you only have slightly more than 2 months to work on.

So yea, let me know if you need more details on JannPaul, and feel free to PM me if you would like me to link you to one of their salespersons. Again, sorry for this long reply!

Hi guys. I am interested in buying a proposal ring right now. Need it by mid-December before I head to US. Therefore, all the inputs here by sifu will be very useful to me.

To start it off, before coming here, I have go around in MV-Gardens to survey for the diamond rings. Tomei, Goldheart, Love&co, Wah Chan, Poh Kong and Le Lumiere. From the 1st 2 shops, I still wasn't sure want I wanted in a diamond. Luckily, I met some good sales person who willing to explain to me all the 4C and also their products. At first, I set my minimum diamond as colour E, clarity VVS2, 3Ex cut and 0.4 carat; budget RM6k. But after going through the few initial shops, I realised that with that budget, I am unable to achieve that kind of diamond spec I wanted.  Then I went on to do my own 'homework' by researching and reading about diamonds. I learned that with limited budget, you can't always get the best of all 4C. Also putting Cut > Carat > Colour > Clarity as my priority. I have friends that disagree that cut should not be the most important of all 4C. Some said carat, some said colour and clarity. After all the readings and surveying, I still believe Cut is the most important factor for a good diamond. I remembered someone mentioned that "Cut is King", and I totally agree with that. No matter how big or how clear your diamond is, if it don't sparkle or shine brilliantly, it is not a perfect diamond for me.

Now, after all the above, I have now set my new minimum for a diamond; Cut has to be perfect, around 0.4 carat (+/-), clarity SI1 and colour G with budget >RM7k (including the ring). I am not sure if I can be getting this with this kind of budget. So far, I know Le Lumiere has the closest but with lesser carat (GIA 5256615959) and color (GIA 7261392761). Both are RM6688 and RM6388 respectively. Love&co, the specs might be lower if not mistaken but compared with Le Lumiere I saw, the diamond performance are better than Love&co; sparkles more brightly. Another option is to go for diamond and ring separately (like in Wah Chan). I looked for JannPaul and Brian Gavin; I have to say their diamond looks amazing (thou by picture and videos only) and it fulfill my requirements of good cut (Hearts and Arrows).

Here begins my headache moments. Although my gf once told me to decide on the diamond ring, I am unsure if I should go for those ready made well-known diamond ring brand (like Love&co, Hemera, Le Lumiere and etc) or should I go for those customize diamond and ring (like Brian Gavin, Audrey, Wah Chan, JannPaul and etc). Ladies and guys thinking may be a bit different you see... guys are more to technical stuff than just looking at brand (specs, performance, etc) while ladies usually go for brand (Tiff&co, Love&co, etc).

Any opinion or suggestion based on the above? If I were to order those diamonds from Brian Gavin for example, you think it can fit my budget and enough time to do the setting as well? Thought of JannPaul too but I don't know if can fit my budget as well. Worry if I go SG then end up with failure. Hope all the sifu here can give me some guidance.   
**Sorry to keep this one so long. I just hope my scenario here can help others as well when comes to decide on the proposal ring** 

I won't comment on the diamonds cos there are plenty more sifus who is more knowledgable than me.

So I'll just assist on the girls point of view

I would say don't go for brand. In April, I went to Tiffany & Co to get my bracelet cleaned so I just casually asked what the ring prices was. A 0.15ct cost RM7,000 and that is the lowest they have!! That alone has already hit your budget.

I would go with getting a diamond from Wah Chan and maybe get it set somewhere else. I got a ring from Wah Chan (both diamond and setting) and if you really look at the setting, it isn't the best of the best. I actually don't have any issues with it, but my bf keeps staring at it cos like you put it, more technical. If however, you plan to get a solitaire, then I guess that wouldn't make much of a difference

Hope this helps!

Ahh, JannPaul. Their Super Ideals are very nice! But if you have a tight budget, I don't really recommend getting one cuz you would not be able to maximise carat weight. Since you ranked carat behind cut, it would be wise to find the perfect balance in between, i.e. the biggest stone with a good enough cut grade.

JannPaul (House of Hung, to be exact) do carry what I call near-Super-Ideal diamonds. These diamonds missed the cut due to one or two flaws in them, be it the HCA score, clarity characteristics, slight arrow misalignment, etc., but they are priced in their Ideal price bracket. My friend got one such diamond for quite a steal, and that particular piece was demoted from Super Ideal because it missed by a mere 0.1 in the HCA score! Yes, everything was of Super Ideal quality except that damn HCA haha.

I got my customised engagement ring from JannPaul as well but it was a heart shaped diamond on a Verragio. I thought that a round brilliant was too mainstream, that's why I opted for something unconventional. Moreover, my SO very subtly hinted that she prefers fancy shapes to round haha. Seriously, that saved me plenty of headache on diamond selection and I was able to really bump my carat weight up by a full 10 points with the heart shape based on my budget. My friend was quoted S$3,900 for his near-Super-Ideal 0.63 F VS1 round brilliant, while my 0.74 E IF heart was S$4,100! That's S$200 for an additional 0.11 carat, but I had to sacrifice on the bling factor. Fancy shapes have no match with their round counterparts in the bling department.

Haha I am sorry for this super long winded reply bro. Ohh yes, forgot to mention that you can actually deal with JannPaul via email instead of going all the way to Singapore. Once you have set your 4Cs requirement and a budget, they will search for a few diamond choices based on these guidelines and email you their scope images without any obligations. But bro, if you are customising your setting from scratch, you need to act fast bro, cuz you only have slightly more than 2 months to work on.

So yea, let me know if you need more details on JannPaul, and feel free to PM me if you would like me to link you to one of their salespersons. Again, sorry for this long reply!

No worries bro! Your advice is what I needed now and long winded reply or not, it doesn't matter for me.    Ya. I saw your previous post and you got it from JannPaul too. So I am sure your experience with JannPaul has to be good. Whiteflash, Brian Gavin, JannPaul, I have look at their diamonds through picture and videos and is amazing. My only worry about Whiteflash and Brian Gavin is the delivery time. That is why I look at JannPaul too since is just in SG and my little brother and some close friends are working in SG too.

I am sure you been to their shop and viewed their diamonds and rings. Do you think around ~RM7k (~SG$2.2k) I can get my minimum round diamond specs (G, SI1, ~0.4 carat, H&A cut) together with the ring? To bad they don't have website like Brian Gavin and Whiteflash... If not, I can view them all, choose and ask for you guys sifu's opinion on the diamond.

Thanks for your view! That is great that you view it that way. Because I think diamonds play an important role for the ring. for the same budget, you will be getting lower specs for a branded diamond ring and getting a better specs in other customisation shop. My consideration is more to the customisation shop like Wah Chan, Eymayco, JannPaul and etc. But I do want to get what best for her and the ring she will like most. How do you think I can find out which one she will prefer from my girl based on your opinion? Ask straightforward way? 

I find this diamond pretty good and around your budget: https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/r...id=myengringexp (affiliate link). One down side of this diamond is that there are some tiny clefts at the hearts. But by WhiteFlash standard, as long as the clefts did not exceed certain percentage, it is consider H&A as well. Also, the arrows are slightly not that even in terms of length, if you refer to the actual diamond image,  but that happens to some other super ideal brands as well, so I find it acceptable. HCA score is 1.4. The idealscope although not the best(I am just being picky) but great. At 34.7 degree crown angle, together with a smaller table, this diamond should return excellent fire! Given the specs of E VS1, priced at USD 1312, with exchange rate at 4.291, Malaysia price is RM 5629.79, add 6% GST, diamond price will be RM 5967.58. Let’s round to RM 6000. Simple 4 prongs 18k white gold will probably cost you around RM 1500. So total price will be RM 7500. Does this sound okay?

Of course, feel free to check out other options on WhiteFlash as well. I just pick the first diamond that fits my taste. There should be some others as well.

I did not put Brian Gavin here because it is slightly more expensive because they do not include free shipping. Their Hearts & Arrows however, is extremely good.

Update 1:
This is another excellent diamond, a 0.404 G VS2. Idealscope is comparable to the E VS1 earlier while H&A is better: https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/r...id=myengringexp (affiliate link).

This as well: https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/r...id=myengringexp (affiliate link). 0.408 G VS2. There is a darker shade beneath the hearts at 2 o’clock and 10 o’clock positions, I was told before that means some very slight imprecision, but not too sure what is it. Personally, I don’t really bothered by that too much if the hearts and arrows are this good.

This too! https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/r...id=myengringexp (affiliate link). 0.406 G VS1. Even though crown angle is 34.4.

There should be a many others to cherry pick from as well! But it is getting late and I need to work tomorrow. So feel free to play along with the search function and put in your desire criteria. To get around RM 7000, including the ring, the diamond you should choose will be approximately USD 1209. Of course feel free to plus minus.

Also, I tend to choose diamonds that return more fire, meaning I will choose those with steeper crown angles, preferably 34.6 or above. This is because light return can be determined from the idealscope, so as long as the crown angle is steep enough, and the idealscope is red enough, then that will be shortlisted. If you prefer diamond with brilliance more, then choose diamonds that shows a very red idealscope and crown angle can be between 34.3 to 34.5. Despite this, they should return a good amount of fire also. Super ideals are already meant to be a pretty balanced diamond in terms of performance on all departments. So don’t worry too much about fire even if you choose crown angles that are not as steep.

Let me know if you need further help, as I am affiliated with both WhiteFlash and Brian Gavin diamonds. All the best!

Thanks for your suggestion sifu! I read some of the comments before that you are affiliated with both WhiteFlash and Brian Gavin diamonds. So I guess you are the right person for me to ask about them! My only worry is the delivery time. Since I am heading to US in mid-December, do you think I can make it in time if I buy from them and ship back to MY? Then I have to consider about the setting time as well. Oh, if I were to lower my carat a bit, you think can still find a good diamond there? My initial budget was >RM6k. But after doing some survey, I decided to go up >RM7k. I still have US trip to fund...   

But frankly, if I look at their website, they are so informative about their diamonds even before me viewing the diamond itself. Yes, newbie like me must be thinking if the picture and video they posted there are the real diamond based on the cert given. But I am sure some sifu here have seen and bought it before and knows better than I am right now. Let's say I buy this diamond from them, you have any good suggestion in KL that provide nice settings and good workmanship? I have seen settings like in Wah Chan, the setting is not as nice as those in Love&co or Le Lumiere and etc.

No worries bro! Your advice is what I needed now and long winded reply or not, it doesn't matter for me.    Ya. I saw your previous post and you got it from JannPaul too. So I am sure your experience with JannPaul has to be good. Whiteflash, Brian Gavin, JannPaul, I have look at their diamonds through picture and videos and is amazing. My only worry about Whiteflash and Brian Gavin is the delivery time. That is why I look at JannPaul too since is just in SG and my little brother and some close friends are working in SG too.

I am sure you been to their shop and viewed their diamonds and rings. Do you think around ~RM7k (~SG$2.2k) I can get my minimum round diamond specs (G, SI1, ~0.4 carat, H&A cut) together with the ring? To bad they don't have website like Brian Gavin and Whiteflash... If not, I can view them all, choose and ask for you guys sifu's opinion on the diamond.

Delivery time is an issue bro, you are right. If I am not wrong, both Whiteflash and Brian Gavin ship with FedEx, one of the most reliable couriers worldwide. But that does not mean the risk of your shipment being delayed is not there, you see. Your package might be the unlucky one which is held at customs for examination. For an urgent purchase like yours, I don't really recommend getting it online just because of the additional risks involved. Sorry ya master kambingkoh.

If you are getting it from JannPaul, it would be better if you can personally go down there for collection cuz of the 7% GST refund for tourists. With regards to your budget, I am not too sure of the current prices at JannPaul. But I can tell you that a simple solitaire setting costs about S$550-600.

Thanks for your view! That is great that you view it that way. Because I think diamonds play an important role for the ring. for the same budget, you will be getting lower specs for a branded diamond ring and getting a better specs in other customisation shop. My consideration is more to the customisation shop like Wah Chan, Eymayco, JannPaul and etc. But I do want to get what best for her and the ring she will like most. How do you think I can find out which one she will prefer from my girl based on your opinion? Ask straightforward way? 

Another way is you could ask her good friend about her likings. Girls always talk about it to their girlfriends about weddings/rings etc. Especially if you've been with her for awhile. Berpakat-ing with her good friends is always the best way, be it ring selection or proposal.

e.g. Ring: Some ladies prefer solitaires, some ladies prefer more complex.
Proposal: It can be done privately or with friends/family around.

Everyone is different, so making her good friend your confidant would be a good idea 

I pakat-ed with her siblings on the ring design and the overall proposal. When the day came, she was "angry" with them for being such great actors and actresses all the while haha!

I pakat-ed with her siblings on the ring design and the overall proposal. When the day came, she was "angry" with them for being such great actors and actresses all the while haha!

Oppss... Guess I can't do that now. Hahaha. I don't want to involve the siblings with my own reasoning. Plus, she has 4 sisters (2 married), guess will be a bit to obvious if they ask suddenly. I think close friends or colleagues might do the job for me. But thanks @annann91 with the suggestion!

Based on what I know about my gf, she might look at designs more than just brands (based on the way she shop for clothes). Thou sometimes might conflict with this (branded handbags due to better or classy designs). I just hope she gonna answer them that she likes design and diamond better than just brand! *finger-cross* Then, I can decide on my next step for the diamond rings. Will keep you guys update... 

Besides those famous ones outside MY, any suggestion that I can get a really good diamonds (H&A)? A place where at least able to show me the diamonds and other scope (Ideal, ASET) than just the normal H&A scope. Yesterday I went into Eumayco and he shown me his best diamond based on the minimum diamond spec I provided to them. Here is the GIA cert number: 2266424612. The cut score is 94.1. What minimum score will you guys consider it as good and acceptable? I am sure it is hard for you to go to a shop and just look for a 100% score diamond cut. But the last time I entered Le Lumiere, 2 diamonds also with 100% scores. Such an coincidence...

HCA is 3.5 for this stone.

Based on this: http://www.heartsandarrows.com/hearts-arro...al-cut-dna.aspx, it won't be a H&A diamond.

41.2 pavilion angle is really at the border of an acceptable good diamond as far as I remember. In fact, it is considered too steep by some. And pairing it with 44% depth, my guess is that this diamond will most likely have light leakage. Although it is a good pairing between the shallow crown angle and the steep pavilion angle, shallow crown angle will return lesser fire as well. Overall, I would say this diamond is cut too deep, causing light leakage, and will not have enough fire as well.

As for cut score, maybe you can set your limit at 97% and above, but that's just a reference.

Le Lumiere proportions are already considered ideal cut, hence, it is not surprising for them to score 100%. It is really not coincidence. In fact, I expect most of them score 100% after looking at their stones. The damn bright stone is a super ideal cut feature, that's why I always push for fire on super ideal cut, because sometimes too bright will kill off the fire IMO. Nonetheless, Le Lumiere cannot be unmounted from the setting, so we cannot see its H&A, but nonetheless, you will be getting an excellent stone.

Thanks man for sharing that info! Will go back and take a look at that link you sent to me. I guess, the only best way is to purchase a good loose diamond first. If only KL have some good places for such diamonds. Should have look for sifu here a month earlier so that I can buy those outside from MY like Whiteflash and Brian Gavin.   

Hello, not sure is it the correct place to ask.

I'm planning to propose to my gf very soon and I;m just have very little knowledge about the diamond things (just read few pages here and very basic 4Cs stuff).

those jewelry shops like Diamond & Platinum, Love & Co. and more, they have the ready design/setting which don't need to do any customization, do you think it is worth to buy those "collection"?

Those design are ready stock which I enter the just buy and ciao, or still need to pre order?