Have fun!

i'm not sure if diamond shops offer a magnifying scope for customer to inspect but you can buy 1 cheap on ebay from China, and bring along a flashlight, just aim the light on the diamond and use the scope, you can see the reflections & clarify clearer.

certs are only for reference & maybe value proofing if you plan to sell, in the end still rely on your own judgement.

i'm sure if you check around 100 diamonds from different shops & different specs, you should be able to tell which ones are better, and also an idea on the of local shops.

you can buy from online like someone suggested it'd be cheaper & more options, but make sure you get it from really reputable shops & reputable courier service like DHL with full insurance who takes care of all the handling & tax for you. but you have to bear the duties & GST & handling fee. always a risk buying online.

remember diamond is not an investment like Gold, because synthetic diamonds are very common, thus the value rarely goes up unless it's some rare colored, very rare high carat or extremely well cut diamonds (usually by Brands).

you want size or you want clarity, your eyes can probably tell the size & cut difference, but can your eyes tell the clarity difference? do you have a habit of using a scope to admire the diamond?

that will be my worry if I decide to buy online - but will take what you said into consideration if I chose to get online.

agreed on not looking at a diamond as an investment - my only goal is to get the best bang (or bling) for buck for my girl

since you can't bring her with you, good luck trying to find a ring she likes. if she not into diamonds, probably easier to pick.

so how was it?

So I went to Eumayco, Audrey's, De Beers, Tiff & Co, Tomei, Habib, and then back to Wa Chan - all to see their signature diamonds - so called better than common GIA triple excellent.

Would like to verify my understanding, is it safe to say the super ideal diamonds (Habib's hearts on fire, Tomei's Lumiere, and the likes) are just triple ex diamonds with extremely good proportions? like the crown & pavilion angles, and depts, and cut symmetry is very good to produce optimal fire, brilliance, and scintillation? Assuming what I understand above is correct, this would mean, I can also get similar grade diamonds elsewhere (like wa chan or online) cheaper; albeit unbranded?

FYI to other friends here:
1. de beers claim to go beyond 4C, and have 7C (cannot remember what the other 3Cs stand for, but basically mean fire, brilliance, and scintillation) I was also given a show on how their proprietary IRIS scanner is used to detect diamonds that fits de beers' 7C standard. They also only have internal certification for <0.99 carat diamonds; only 1 and above will have GIA certification

2. tiff & co do not have GIA certification, the sales consultant told me tiff & co certification process is stricter than GIA. didn't get a very good service in tiff & co, it felt more like regular jewelry shopping, than engagement ring/diamond understanding

3. Eumayco's Mr.Eu seem very knowledgeable and was very kind to share alot of information. I am interested in the fact that they do custom ring designs (they also hold classes for these). but their diamond selection seem limited. they are not keen to only do setting, and prefers to sell the diamond + setting as a whole. They will still design the setting for me (in the event I bought my diamond elsewhere), but at a different price point, with no after sales service such as polishing, resizing

4. I didn't spend alot of time in Audrey's, the sales consultant didn't tell me angything new that I didn't already know. Didn't see any real diamonds - he only open the audrey's site and went through some potential diamonds online with me; we also spoke a little on setting design and customisation is possible. They are open for me to bring my own diamond, and they will help with setting design, with full after sales service

5. Wa Chan will also help design settings with my own diamond.

Finally, I have 90% decided on what specs I want:
a) 0.7 carat
b) GIA triple excellent
c) D-F colur
d) SI1 and above clarity

and saw 2 diamonds within this specs, @kambingkoh sifu, what is your opinion on them?

Exactly! Even Whiteflash A Cut Above, James Allen True Hearts and JannPaul Super Ideal are all nothing but very brilliantly cut round diamonds. They just slap on a brand name and charge you a premium.

However, these only apply to the traditional rounds with 57 facets. Modified rounds like the Solasfera are lain cerita.

You can actually see the inclusions in diamond 623 cuz of its SI1 clarity. From your drillz, I can easily spot 2 big inclusions: one on the east arrowhead and one on the west arrow shaft near the centre of the diamond. There are a couple more small ones scattered around the table.

Of course, these are relatively easy to spot cuz of its high magnification. Did you try and look at the inclusions with your naked eye? If you can find them, then I would advise you to drop this diamond cuz it is not eye clean.

-add-

One more thing. There is no need to go until D colour if you are looking at super ideals. Cuz its fire, brilliance and scintillation will be able to effectively mask your diamond's body colour. Well, unless you flip your stone and look at it from the bottom, then lain cerita lahh. So my personal preference is E-F and maximise carat size.

Furthermore, there is a premium to pay for D colour.

This post has been edited by bb100: Jul 3 2017, 11:03 AM

glad to hear that my understanding is sound!

yes I did look at both diamonds without magnification, and actually side by side, I can't tell the difference - but that will be likely due to my inexperience & the spotlights in the shop. I watched a JannPaul video, and diamonds without fully visible & symmetrical hearts and arrows will look very different (dull even) under natural light? So I'm worried to get diamond 623

any opinion/guidance on this?

Would like to verify my understanding, is it safe to say the super ideal diamonds (Habib's hearts on fire, Tomei's Lumiere, and the likes) are just triple ex diamonds with extremely good proportions? -> Yes. Also, if you view from the bottom of the diamond, you will see a clear picture of Hearts & Arrows. This indicates the diamond's precision. Remember, the numbers you view on the certificates are the average number resulted from the amount of angles taken into consideration. We have to remember that diamond cutting is a handcraft, the precision of each angles may differ slightly. Hence, the average will be the result showed on the certificate. To better understand things, refer to the website below/image attached below:

https://www.whiteflash.com/about-diamonds/d...lytics-1535.htm


While AGS does not round up the average numbers, GIA does, meaning the average will always be rounded to the nearest "x" degree. So for example, for crown angle, GIA will round up to the nearest 0.5 degree, so for example, 34.3 degree crown angle will be averaged up to 34.5 degree. While for pavilion angle, GIA will round up to the nearest 0.2 degree, so for example , 40.7 degree pavilion angle will be averaged up to 40.8 degree. So, in terms of accuracy, I would say AGS wins. Anyway, GIA is still a world-renowned lab and you will should take both GIA/AGS graded diamonds into consideration. Refer below:

https://diamondcut.gia.edu/06_estimating_a_cut_grade.html


Using the proprietary cut score calculator by Enchanted Diamonds: https://enchanteddiamonds.com/cut-score-calculator
For the two diamonds you picked, 2186826647 has a cut score of 94.4, while 3215447623 has a cut score of 97.2. For 2186826647, the crown angle is at 36 degrees, which is considered over-steep. So that is probably where the diamond loses score. For 3215447623, it is cut to slightly deep at 62.6%. Safe rule is to make sure diamond max around 62%. So, that is probably where the diamond loses score.

However, based on the image you provide, which one looks more appealing? Personally, I think is diamond 2186826647. The image is clear. However, not all arrows are similar in size with each other. Also, the "backside" of most arrows are not that balanced. Also, look at the 12 o'clock position, the arrow head is tilted to the left.

For 3215447623, this is strange. The right hand side is obviously darker than the left. I am not sure why but it could indicate that the cut quality is not that good. Maybe a little too deep at that area. So in this case, I would prefer the look of 2186826647 more, despite the numbers on the cert 3215447623 is not as good.

Good thing is, I believe you have seen the diamonds personally, which one looks more appealing to you? Can you request the sales assistant to show you the diamonds under normal fluorescent light? It will be best to see them under normal light because you will know whether the diamond can perform out of the shop.

Lastly, price is another important factor to consider, so it will be best if we can have the price to see whether it is a good buy or not. For example, Hearts on Fire may be a safe buy, but the price is crazy. However, despite the proportions and cut of another diamond is not as good, but the deal is good, sometimes it is worth to consider, if you don't need a super ideal. It all boils down to individual preference.

wow - more things to read and study up - never heard of proprietary cut score calculator before.

actually, in the shop, both 623 & 647 look the same to me - but as i mentioned in my replies above - this is likely due to my inexperience & spotlight in the shop. I asked to view using the ASET scope and Idealscope but the sales consultant responded confused, haha - so I only used a hearts and arrow scope.

I am incline to buy my diamond online now - been browsing these couple of days and online is definitely cheaper, and more choices, but now I'm spoilt for choice.

on price, 623's price is 13.5K, whereas 647 is 19.0K

update: I tested water and she plans to wear the ring quite regularly, not just for functions and dinners - so a 0.7carat might be too big? I'm thinking 0.6carat now.

Proprietary - Means the standard belongs to the online store alone. But I found that their standard seems not bad. Will usually use Enchanted Cut Score Calculator as one of the first level filtering methods.

Great, if you got the chance, remember to view the diamond from the bottom of the diamond to see the Hearts. They can tell you more story regarding the cut quality.

No diamond is too big. Anyway, 0.7ct can wear daily, no problem. Just that you have to remember that your ring setting needs to hold the diamond firmly, so in this case, my advice is find some design that can let the diamond "sit" on it, and probably can consider 6 prongs (although 4 prongs will make the diamond more terrific). Personally, will go for a design that can let the diamond to sit and 4 prongs.

I assume the price includes a ring setting?

The most effective way to evaluate a diamond is not inside the jewellery shop with all the powerful lighting shining at you. You should either look at it under fluorescence lighting or daylight. But I doubt the salesperson would allow you to bring his diamonds outside of his shop. So that's why you have to depend on light performance scopes.

haha - I'm just worried she will be shy to wear out if it blings too much (if you get me). no the price is only diamond without setting - the shop quotes me an additional 1.5k for white gold setting.

I'm keener on 4 prongs, and with designs that allow the diamond to be admired from its side as well still open on setting ideas. want to firm up the diamond purchase first.

do you reckon I can get cheaper online for that specs? whiteflash a good place to buy?

what should I look out for when viewing the hearts?

the only light performance scopes these shops have are the hearts and arrow scope the salesperson have not heard of ASET or Ideal scopes unfortunately.

This post has been edited by matrixation: Jul 3 2017, 03:49 PM

Look at the Hearts, make sure there are 8 obvious hearts that are approximate the same in size. Then, look at the Arrows, make sure they are approximate the same in terms of size. The gap between the hearts and the arrows should also be quite the same. Look for its Hearts & Arrows image. Move your eyes around to grab to see if you are able to get a clear image of the Hearts & Arrows. Or use your phone camera to try to focus until you can get a clear image of Hearts & Arrows. If you have tried a lot of times and unable to do so, then it is probably not a super ideal. To confirm, ask the sales assistant to capture a perfect picture of Hearts & Arrows for you.

Take a look at the diamond below. It is an F VS2. Take a look at the Hearts & Arrows image. You probably want the diamonds you view to look something similar:
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/r...id=myengringexp (affiliate link).

Since we are at this diamond, I will just calculate the approximate cost for this diamond as well. Any diamonds above USD 2000 from Whiteflash will get a USD 25 discount for first purchase. So this diamond will cost around USD 3743. Wire transfer exchange rate via M2U for USD is 4.356. So this diamond will cost approximately RM 16304.51. Add on 6% GST, this diamond will cost approximately RM 17282.78. A quality ring setting will probably set you back another RM 1500 - RM 2300. So this diamond + ring will probably costs you RM 19582.78.

Whiteflash is definitely a good place to buy, given its quality and its price. But if you can up your budget, you can also consider Brian Gavin Diamonds, especially their "Black by Brian Gavin" (Black by Brian Gavin) which I think gives a better Hearts & Arrows consistency overall. Brian Gavin helped started Whiteflash before he started his own company. He is a cutter himself and is famous for his Hearts & Arrows diamond as well. The downside of Brian Gavin is the price may be slightly higher as you need to pay for shipment, while Whiteflash offers free delivery.

Of course, I am not saying Whiteflash is no good, in fact, recent diamonds (probably between March til June) seems to cut to better consistency, which is good.

As for Idealscope and ASET, it is not unusual if they are unable to provide. But given that Hearts & Arrows is the only scope you can get, then must well fully utilize it to determine the cut of the diamond better.

This post has been edited by kambingkoh: Jul 3 2017, 04:25 PM

I will begin monitoring whiteflash for suitable diamonds. the 0.71 F VS2 you shown above is a little over my budget, I'd like to keep the diamond price <14K. and would sacrifice size for better cuts

1 more question if you don't mind - I've watched JannPaul videos on how to read Idealscope and ASET images, but all I get is look for red & black regions in idealscope, and white is not good as it signifies light leakages. and i don't get the difference between that and an ASET image

For both ASET and Idealscope, the focus will be on the red parts of the image. The more red the merrier.

Personally, I prefer the ASET scope as it tells a more complete story about your diamond's light performance. It has 4 components: INTENSE light return, red; LESS INTENSE light return, green; contrast, blue; and light leakage, white. On the other hand, an Idealscope only has 3 components: light return, red; contrast, blue; and light leakage, white. Both INTENSE and LESS INTENSE light returns are coloured red, which is confusing. Too many green areas are not a good sign. It means that there are flaws in the cut.

-add-

Here is an example:



This post has been edited by bb100: Jul 3 2017, 06:39 PM

I see, this cleared alot of air. thanks!

You can see Mr. bb100 carries around all the materials from Jann Paul, which benefits people who are interested. Haha!

Now I also know more about ASET scope.

Haha I got that image from the net boss.