Let's form a Monk team for high Torment

the problem is there's no blizzard staff play monks so nobody address the real issues the monks facing so they try nerf this and that but not really try on them

Yup...nerf hammer is up...OWE will be 30% as effective only in 2.1.0...
after all the buff hype, here comes the nerfHAMMER

i havent even see the buff already nerfed. damn...

After reading about monk with 2.1.. all I can do is sigh in disappoinment again. They really dont know what they want to implement and they're implementing all the wrong changes. They still dont realize that its just 2 simple problem....re design owe and buff dps. How hard is that. Its all over the monk forum.

Easy way to calculate your new damage reduction in 2.1:

http://bannedofgamers.com/index.php?thread...mparisons.2725/

Previously I thought I lost 20% with the OwE nerf, I was wrong... I actually lost +30.386% taking into consideration of MoH - Time of heal in 2.1 that give me very little boost.

Well, most likely PTR will be up next week. Will test it out. I hope Bliz can boost my damage by 300% for my 30% lost in damage reduction.

I think armor > AR in ROS.

For other chars, cru, barb, wiz, WD, DH, armor seems working better than AR.

Armor = AR..both works exactly the same, i.e reduce damage taken. I believe Quazacolt explained before where for damage mitigation computation, Armor and AR are multiplicative hence, no difference if you chose 1 over the other.

For monks Armor are not as good as AR as our MoH only works to boost AR unlike warcry. Also, contrary to popular believe, monks are not getting 8-10k Armor for free, that is exchange for dodge. Also, With STI rework..monk's base armor will probably be at 6k. Hence, with the dex = armor , Monk's total armor will be about 15k.

Hence with the rework on OWE with 30% AR, the net effect is monk is being nerfed.

Again, while the Ramen set boost was a step forward, this rework of OWE is 2 steps backwards.

TLDR , Blizzard don't give a F&@$ on monks..

I think that was the old calculation.
No longer valid in RoS.

Barb is the closest melee class with 30% damage mitigation by default.
Barb@T6 require buffed 900AR (or 650-700AR without buff) with 15k armor.

Cru requires 300AR to do T6. With high armor, of course.

Therefore, I do think armor > AR in RoS.

Bro, please come back and play.

Tried 6-piece raiment set, not very impress. die more than my fire set in T4+

thats the most important part.. hopefully they do it right in 2.1..

/wishfulthinking

Barb is able to do well in T6 due to they are not a 100% melee class. WT/SS/LQ do not have to face tank the mobs. They can kite damage and deal damage. If anything amiss, they can always use superstition for elemental resist. Straight up 20% reduction is huge.

Cru is totally different. They can survive on 300AR cuz they are using shield and AC have 2 lives. Also they are not entirely needed to face tank the mobs. Cru is a mid range class.

For monks, they need OWE to tank well as they are a full melee class which requires them to stand face to face with mobs to hit them (monk have short hands). Also the secondary single element resists are meant for monk to stack to utilize OWE. It is the main reason why in RoS, dual resist gears no longer exist. To prevent monks from stacking AR + resist. Now they nerf OWE so bad that monks required to stack AR. Now the secondary single resist is pretty much useless to monks. It is back to the same old "must have AR on all gears". What is the difference between RoS and Vanilla Diablo 3?

Apart from AR from OWE, blizz just killed the build diversity that is core of every class by making Dex = Armor
Strength = Armor
Dexterity = Dodge
Intelligence = Resist All
If Dex players wanted to have high armor like Str class, they would have just played Barb/Cru. Looking at DH point of view. Archer class is supposed to be tanky? Its just illogical.

Coming back next month. Brian surprisingly called me this morning. Asked me how come I A.W.O.L... haha.. I told him very busy with work lately so I'm temporarily inactive. Will activate myself early next month . My motherboard showing signs of rip dii.... need to get that fixed soon. See you guys once 2.1 kicks in. At least got Semangat to farm

I heard from somewhere an andariels visage is equal to 4 pieces of raiment set

Very insightful reply. Well said.

Monks have the highest AR among all class nowadays.
INT chars used to have high AR (1800-2000 AR).
But as we progress, most INT chars stack about 1100-1200 AR for T6.
Nowadays, few INT char put Diamond in the sockets.
AR is broken. It seems to have "diminishing return" when you stack high AR.
Stacking high AR doesn't help in survivability.

Blizz want to fix monk's toughness.
I reckon they pull a fast one by giving monk more armor.
Alternatively, Blizz need to buff the LOH of monk by increasing the proc rate.
Either fixing armor or improving LOH, I think it is a more universal defence fix to improve the toughness of monk.

For dodge, as cow said, Blizz will not likely to go for that route.
Successful dodge gives immunity.
There are 2 sides of a coin.
On one side, if Blizz buff the dodge chance, monk will immune to damage aka god mode.
On the other side, with the toughness not fixed, there is still a chance to get hit by fatal blows. Monk's HP will still drain like water when it can't dodge the fatal hit. It is still not good fix.

Anyway, we will see it how the fix goes at PTR later.

This post has been edited by ALeUNe: Jun 23 2014, 07:40 PM

I think when ppl say armor = ar, in the sense of other classes it works but it doesn't actually play out that way for barbs and cru. Yes cru high armor low ar can survive t6 but not without a shield. Barbs moves a hell lots especially ww or leapquake or even with ancients. They don't take it in the face 100%. A lot of it is avoided. In the case of monk its face tanking like a boss. Damage mitigation is rubbish seeing how much Ar and armor monks need to stack. The problem was already noticeable when RoS launched. Where did all the cool enchantment go to? Single freakin RES. That really turned me off and I totally gave up monk.

2nd issue.. Dps.. monks were top of the food chain because skills and buffs synergized with each other resulting in some holy shat big numbers. I don't expect it to be the same but the damage monks are churning out is pathetic. Running with monks in party. 2 mandatory skills, EP and CS... what happened to diversity? They nerfed nirvana, cookie cutters, bell and gave nothing in return. Amitabha.... time to meditate till some actual fixes are made..

+1

my thoughts exactly Electro..on the philosophy of monk. Funny a lot people will come back and say..hey monk are not supposed to be super tankers.....

But the irony is that the meta game forces monks to be the ultimate tanker due to low DPS output. Like u said, monks are forced to CS + EP in high Torments.

To CS, i.e to pull mobs in...requires high mitigation as you are inviting damage and not avoiding it. Hence, so many monks just abandon DPS and go for high EhP aka ZDps build.

Sad to see the issue of dps is not address but to dex=armor is as someone mentioned a copout. Might as well change dex to str and monks just use str as main stats.

Aleune..for whats is worth..unless you grind like mad eg cow to get almost perfect secondary res on all BiS gears, to stack AR via OWE on monk has the effect of LOW dps. Sure to get to 2k AR on monk is not that hard..but the trade off is DPS..and lots of DPS.

Do you know how hard it is to get a SoJ with secondary res? Or a TWH for the same. Or a DPS ammy with secondary res?

That is why most monks craft because they just cant get drops which correlates with the secondary res. Also part of the reason why OWE is being rework due to this reason.

To put it short, you imply that monks can be tough. But that is in exchange for DPS (unless you are cowithgun).
The underlying issue is not purely on toughness. It is the toughness /DPS balance.

Your point that Bliz is trying to fix monk's toughness is not completely correct. As I pointed out, monks don't have a problem with toughness ...eg ZDps. To be perfectly honest, Monks ARE ultimate tankers, but can only do so in exchange of DPS.

The underlying issue is because monks lays out too low dps ---> takes longer to kill ---> need more mitigation ----> squishy.


Hence Dex = Armor is not a desired solution, since the underlying issue is DPS.

so so soooooo much this, but with them buffing our toughness now, cross finger they have dps buff planned as well..

no point with 20m toughness but can barely scratch t5+6 content

/ohmhomhohm