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 Monk Discussion V7, RoS:The perfection of Seven Sided Strike

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ALeUNe
post May 16 2014, 11:21 AM

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QUOTE(gladfly @ May 16 2014, 11:17 AM)
put bsl on Ignore..hahaha

WD I cincai play cause cow gave me an epic Jeram 98% pet damage. Kadala also very kind gave me Jade chest and jade boot drop on my Monk.

So far I just follow lingkang build..mass physcopaths..if u wanna get a good WD build ..ask Aleune.

And yes fire is the way to go too that's what I heard la

But its fun lor when the pets kill...u just lepak lepak nia
*
My WD is like cikai. sweat.gif
For WD, you need to refer to builds from Penangitesz and stevie.

D3 is gear based game. All chars rely on gears to do high T level.
So, luck is your only good friend. laugh.gif
ALeUNe
post May 16 2014, 03:05 PM

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IMO, 2 things have "broken" in monk.

1stly, the toughness. Both barb and monk have 30% damage mitigation by default.
Technically speaking, monk should be WAY MORE tankier than barb since monk can stack extremely high AR (1400+) and decent armor (8000+).
However, in actual gameplay, monks experience difficulty in T5/T6 due to life drains like water.
I play barb with 50% lower AR than my monk but 50% higher armor than monk, I don't feel the life of my barb drains as fast as monk when it stands in the middle of poison/plague/fire/firechain etc.
So, I reckon the toughness of monk is "broken". I tried MoC/Intimidation + Resolve passive (virtually 65% damage mitigation), it still hurt sh*t.

Monk is okay with the damage. I mean the main character. My under-geared monk can do 18-20m damage from fire bell. It is fine with the damage I reckon.
Here comes the 2nd point, monks lack of macai. Macai is the trend now!!!
WD/Barb/DH are using many macais now. With macais + main char, they can deliver high damage per second in total, collectively.
Wiz, with mirror ball, the damage is 2-3 times more. As good as having macai.
Cru, need I say more, it's flagship char. Many gears allow 2-3 times or more attacks.
So, IMO, it's either
1) Blizz reduce the resource cost of burst damage skills (i.e. bell) or giving more high spirit generation gear (i.e. Band of the Rue Chambers ring etc).
Or
2) Give macai to monk (i.e. buff mystic ally).


Blizz needs to fix the toughness of monk first. IMO, this is very important.
Without this, doing T6 could be a difficult task for monk.
This is especially monk could be the one and only melee char in RoS now (barb can do WT/Seismic slam with macai doing melee or just keep leaping).
Then, Blizz needs to fix either skills or gears for monk.


Last but not least, I won't say monk is totally "broken".
One must remember, not all char can do T6.
Monk can do T4/T5 just fine. Just like most of the chars are doing now.
To do T6, you need specific gears. This applies to all chars as this is gear based game.

This post has been edited by ALeUNe: May 16 2014, 03:26 PM
ALeUNe
post May 19 2014, 02:33 PM

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QUOTE(present me @ May 19 2014, 02:26 PM)
I understand monk players stand, and I are one, so I am currently converting a crusader, monk really make a comparison there how weak. . .hmmm
*
Cru obviously is OP.
A well geared Cru is extremely OP.
No class can come close to that. Period.

Monk is ok with the damage.
Hitting 6-20million of damage is the damage range experienced by other class of heroes, specifically those legacy class.
The point here is, monk can dish out decent damage.

This post has been edited by ALeUNe: May 19 2014, 02:39 PM
ALeUNe
post May 19 2014, 02:34 PM

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QUOTE(cowithgun @ May 19 2014, 11:55 AM)
Help monk, read this Open Letter from Druin to Developer:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/12879077914

Sign it if you agree with what we feel.
*
Of all the points made, I fully agree on the "mitigation" part.
I'd call it toughness instead.

Blizz really need to fix the toughness of monk.
ALeUNe
post May 22 2014, 11:48 AM

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QUOTE(SpikeTwo @ May 22 2014, 11:44 AM)
should i reroll the TF vit to +dmg% or +atk spd?
i rerolled to +8% dmg currently and ran out of souls. lol...
*
If your wep comes with DEX & socket by default, you should roll damage range.
ALeUNe
post May 27 2014, 01:03 PM

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QUOTE(Eywh77 @ May 27 2014, 12:08 PM)
Looted SOH last night.... woot woot  rclxm9.gif  rclxm9.gif
*
Congrats!
Your monk is very solid now.
ALeUNe
post Jun 2 2014, 01:56 PM

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yuhhaur
Please update new builds for monk in the 1st page.
i.e. fire build with skill setup and recommended gears.
ALeUNe
post Jun 12 2014, 01:47 PM

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QUOTE(vonzipper @ Jun 12 2014, 10:35 AM)
any lightning build monk can solo T6.. fast rift.!!! Thanks!
*
Any monk can solo T6? Fast rift!!! Thanks.

Please share your build.
ALeUNe
post Jun 16 2014, 11:14 AM

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QUOTE(present me @ Jun 15 2014, 07:43 PM)
yes pin ball style unlike it, that is not monk style ..
http://www.diablofans.com/news/48103-dev-s...nk-pure-dashing
*
Pinball style is fine.
But I'm having problem with the shaking screen. laugh.gif

By the way, I thought Invis quit. hmm.gif
ALeUNe
post Jun 16 2014, 11:46 AM

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QUOTE(DarkNite @ Jun 16 2014, 11:42 AM)
left, right, left, right, left, right, gives me headache! rclxub.gif
*
It's just like WW barb, WW from A to Z. laugh.gif

Time to hunt for Jawbreaker!!


ALeUNe
post Jun 22 2014, 01:57 PM

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QUOTE(DarkNite @ Jun 18 2014, 06:38 PM)
rclxub.gif
so if no AR we are screw? hmm.gif
secondary res must all different?
BTW
are these the different types of resist?

Secondary resistance stats:
1. Lightening
2. Arcane
3. Fire
4. Physical
5. Cold
6. Poison

7. ALL RESIST << usually is in the primary stats as far as I know.
*
I think armor > AR in ROS.

For other chars, cru, barb, wiz, WD, DH, armor seems working better than AR.
ALeUNe
post Jun 22 2014, 02:44 PM

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QUOTE(gladfly @ Jun 22 2014, 02:18 PM)
Armor = AR..both works exactly the same, i.e reduce damage taken. I believe Quazacolt explained before where for damage mitigation computation, Armor and AR are multiplicative hence, no difference if you chose 1 over the other.

For monks Armor are not as good as AR as our MoH only works to boost AR unlike warcry. Also, contrary to popular believe, monks are not getting 8-10k Armor for free, that is exchange for dodge. Also, With STI rework..monk's base armor will probably be at 6k. Hence, with the dex = armor , Monk's total armor will be about 15k.

Hence with the rework on OWE with 30% AR, the net effect is monk is being nerfed.

Again, while the Ramen set boost was a step forward, this rework of OWE is 2 steps backwards.

TLDR , Blizzard don't give a F&@$ on monks..
*
I think that was the old calculation.
No longer valid in RoS.

Barb is the closest melee class with 30% damage mitigation by default.
Barb@T6 require buffed 900AR (or 650-700AR without buff) with 15k armor.

Cru requires 300AR to do T6. With high armor, of course.

Therefore, I do think armor > AR in RoS.

ALeUNe
post Jun 22 2014, 10:33 PM

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QUOTE(Deckard Cain @ Jun 22 2014, 11:37 AM)
After reading about monk with 2.1.. all I can do is sigh in  disappoinment again. They really dont know what they want to implement and they're implementing all the wrong changes. They still dont realize that its just 2 simple problem....re design owe and buff dps. How hard is that. Its all over the monk forum.
*
Bro, please come back and play. laugh.gif
ALeUNe
post Jun 23 2014, 07:39 PM

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QUOTE(qicquser @ Jun 23 2014, 04:39 PM)
Barb is able to do well in T6 due to they are not a 100% melee class. WT/SS/LQ do not have to face tank the mobs. They can kite damage and deal damage. If anything amiss, they can always use superstition for elemental resist. Straight up 20% reduction is huge.

Cru is totally different. They can survive on 300AR cuz they are using shield and AC have 2 lives. Also they are not entirely needed to face tank the mobs. Cru is a mid range class.

For monks, they need OWE to tank well as they are a full melee class which requires them to stand face to face with mobs to hit them (monk have short hands). Also the secondary single element resists are meant for monk to stack to utilize OWE. It is the main reason why in RoS, dual resist gears no longer exist. To prevent monks from stacking AR + resist. Now they nerf OWE so bad that monks required to stack AR. Now the secondary single resist is pretty much useless to monks. It is back to the same old "must have AR on all gears". What is the difference between RoS and Vanilla Diablo 3?

Apart from AR from OWE, blizz just killed the build diversity that is core of every class by making Dex = Armor
Strength = Armor
Dexterity = Dodge
Intelligence = Resist All
If Dex players wanted to have high armor like Str class, they would have just played Barb/Cru. Looking at DH point of view. Archer class is supposed to be tanky? Its just illogical.
*
Very insightful reply. Well said.

Monks have the highest AR among all class nowadays.
INT chars used to have high AR (1800-2000 AR).
But as we progress, most INT chars stack about 1100-1200 AR for T6.
Nowadays, few INT char put Diamond in the sockets.
AR is broken. It seems to have "diminishing return" when you stack high AR.
Stacking high AR doesn't help in survivability.

Blizz want to fix monk's toughness.
I reckon they pull a fast one by giving monk more armor.
Alternatively, Blizz need to buff the LOH of monk by increasing the proc rate.
Either fixing armor or improving LOH, I think it is a more universal defence fix to improve the toughness of monk.

For dodge, as cow said, Blizz will not likely to go for that route.
Successful dodge gives immunity.
There are 2 sides of a coin.
On one side, if Blizz buff the dodge chance, monk will immune to damage aka god mode.
On the other side, with the toughness not fixed, there is still a chance to get hit by fatal blows. Monk's HP will still drain like water when it can't dodge the fatal hit. It is still not good fix.

Anyway, we will see it how the fix goes at PTR later.

This post has been edited by ALeUNe: Jun 23 2014, 07:40 PM
ALeUNe
post Jun 26 2014, 02:06 PM

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QUOTE(dreaming @ Jun 26 2014, 01:44 PM)
yeah, the new passive is looking good when pairing together with blinding flash +29% increase dmg. 
and damn it! i had salvaged many depth diggers..  sweat.gif  rclxub.gif
*
Note: Existing items will not be affected by these changes. Only new versions of the items will roll with the added Legendary power.
ALeUNe
post Aug 21 2014, 11:21 AM

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QUOTE(cowithgun @ Aug 21 2014, 11:04 AM)
i am so angry when i read this

"Ideally, each class should be within a couple Greater Rift tiers of one another. Our latest internal testing, where we often copy actual characters from players in the PTR and run them through Greater Rifts, shows that we're pretty close. "


http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/13923582286
*
Keyword, ideally.

Quote
... we want each class performing similarly and with fewer outliers before we introduce new play styles.
Unquote

You can expect some works on monk.
It's either nerf others buff monk or buff monk all the way (through gears and skills).
I believe the latter is a more possible solution.

Assuming the toughness has been taken care of by implementing 1 DEX = 1 armor.
For me, it is very easy to fix monk. I do not know why Blizz took so long.
It's gear based game. Give monk some kickarse weapon like "Starmetal kukri". Blizz just needs to fix that.
And buff the skills like Epiphany. It is pathetic as compared to Akarat's Champion, WoTB and Archon.
ALeUNe
post Aug 21 2014, 11:49 AM

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QUOTE(gladfly @ Aug 21 2014, 11:34 AM)
Actually we have some kickarse items : Fist of Az and sledgefist....but it was too OP in team play hence was nerfed to oblivion. Just like how Furnace was killed off and Rimeheart too. Catch 22 position, epic legs which are hard to find is nerfed to be non epic, which totally defeats the concept of item hunt.

All I can say is Dong Vu doesn't care....
*
Fist of Az? People complain monk plays a supporting role with EP.
Sledgefist? Still kill slow.

If Blizz can't give monk more macai like WD, DH and barb, monk should be given 2-3x more damage from weapons like Fate of the fell/Darklight for Cru or Wand of Woh/Mirror Ball for Wiz.
Super Saiyan/Epiphany needs a fix too.
ALeUNe
post Aug 21 2014, 12:13 PM

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QUOTE(cowithgun @ Aug 21 2014, 11:56 AM)
...the part that make me angry is

"Our latest internal testing, where we often copy actual characters from players in the PTR and run them through Greater Rifts, shows that we're pretty close. "

user posted image
*
May be they use grift 27 as a benchmark.

It's no where close until monk gets weapons like fire 2 extra Wave of Lights or 1-2 additional 7ss are triggered after casting 7ss.
OR
10% of summoning a mystic ally to fight by your side for 60 seconds. nod.gif
ALeUNe
post Aug 22 2014, 02:47 AM

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QUOTE(cowithgun @ Aug 21 2014, 08:16 PM)
Grift 30 video. Think that's the best I can do.


*
Look at the time spent, you should be able to do grift 31-32.
I think that is close with other class.
ALeUNe
post Aug 26 2014, 12:58 AM

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QUOTE(cowithgun @ Aug 25 2014, 10:53 PM)
After many rift, upgraded Mirinie legendary gem to lv25. It can now deal 3000% holy damage every 5 seconds smile.gif

[attachmentid=4108849]

With that, completed Grift 31 with almost 2 minutes left.

[attachmentid=4108851]

Also found Vengful Wind fist weapon that will increase SW stack by 3.

[attachmentid=4108850]
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QUOTE(LifeX @ Aug 25 2014, 11:53 PM)
My best also at GF 31 :-( Could have gone to 32.

[attachmentid=4108964]
*
This is a positive result.
I think Grift 30-33 is the range for all above-average-geared characters.

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