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 LYN Christian Fellowship V7 (Group), Bible Hope never disappoints!

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Sophiera
post Jul 29 2014, 10:24 PM

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QUOTE(sonido @ Jul 29 2014, 08:29 PM)
i'm only commenting on Matthew 15:21-28 bcuz its very interesting.

no matter how i look at it the cananite woman was a believer. a non-jewish believer. just like us. she approached Jesus and was rejected. she kept being rejected until she humbled herself in front of Jesus, by admitting she was nothing but a dog. maybe.. this is a message to tell us to be humble to God in our prayer for salvation if we want to be saved ? maybe believing in Jesus alone is not enough.
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unknownwarrior pehkay tolong jelaskan.

Actually I found a place that refers to the old translation also

http://www.gotquestions.org/salvation-gift.html
http://www.gotquestions.org/faith-alone.html

If you still have questions I cannot answer liao. Must call the pro people.

This post has been edited by Sophiera: Jul 29 2014, 11:00 PM
de1929
post Jul 29 2014, 10:51 PM

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QUOTE(alexkos @ Jul 29 2014, 04:53 PM)
Anyone need this? God bless =)

Join a church more, go for their prayer meetings, cell/life groups, help out in outreach ministry, children ministry, and remember to attend Sunday's service to honor God.

Encourage a discouraged brother/sister, get them out of addiction of gaming (esp lowyat, you know), of unhealthy living lifestyle. Be with them, share their feelings. Shine the light.

Jiayou. If anyone of you need help in overcoming gaming addiction ( i was one), please pm me.
Let God set you free and your world opened up to hope and life eternal  smile.gif


*
The youtube is not working when i click it.
I have to try to reply, and then i can get this link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PANiveIKVX0

I hope this can help smile.gif

This post has been edited by de1929: Jul 29 2014, 10:53 PM
Sophiera
post Jul 29 2014, 11:04 PM

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Eh, manic not nice to call people out like that. That's why if want to be teacher, must sabar.
de1929
post Jul 29 2014, 11:11 PM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ Jul 29 2014, 11:04 PM)
Its quite interesting these days, when you mention encourage a discourage brother.

but these days, i notice most christians don't do this kind of thing.

i have seen some christians at office pretend to listen to office problems, but behind people back, they rat out their co-workers to get promotion.

yeah, i even seen people at church rat out other christians, to gain favor.
*
too bad in these days, the strong one get what their want and the weaker one just get leftovers... both in Church and outside church.
TSunknown warrior
post Jul 29 2014, 11:24 PM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ Jul 29 2014, 10:24 PM)
unknownwarrior pehkay tolong jelaskan.
*
It's a message of God's grace and of Faith. Something truly unprecedented happened.

First we have to understand that Jesus wasn't crucified yet, and in the setting of those time, people knew that a Messiah would come to save the Jewish people.

We all know that the Jewish people are the first to be invited for Salvation later followed by the gentiles.

The Canaanite Woman pretended to be Jewish by addressing our Lord "Son of David". In a way she's trying to buy her way through by pretending. That's why Jesus at first kept silence, only when He said “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel", She realize she could not disguised herself any longer then She came as herself by crying "Lord Help me and then God answered her.

I have a message for you, God wants you to come as you are, with no pretense and nothing to hide and He will answer you.

The thing that's truly remarkable if you notice, that the Canaanite woman didn't give up in her Faith.

She just keep on coming to God. And God answered Her despite telling her that He was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.
Her Faith was persistent and God said, GREAT was her Faith.

Even though Jesus wasn't crucified yet but still He gave her the Grace of God, something she didn't earned, only she believed that God will answer her.
She reminds me of prayer warrior who once said " I will not let God go, until He answer me". God is not irritated neither offended by such persistency.
He is very pleased by it.

This is the key message.


P.S: The word dog used in this passage is not the insulting or derogatory term as many people think. The Greek word for dog used in this context is
kunarion: a little dog or a puppy.

Jesus was using this in a very gentle way.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jul 30 2014, 09:49 AM
de1929
post Jul 29 2014, 11:29 PM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ Jul 29 2014, 11:24 PM)
huh? what leftovers? you mean $$$?

but sometime christians just use the excuse saying "hey don't look at us, we are imperfect, look to god and his word". Its another way or excuse of saying, "I don't want to improve, I am EGO, i don't want to admit i made a mistake".

just last week, i had a debate with my uncle who is a christian, i ask him, why all this abuse in the church, they playing politics with each other? I say no wonder lah, god punish some of the churches by having these religious raids, because sometimes the leaders and their sub-leaders grown proud and lost focus on who is the true enemy than to fight among themselves. Maybe its a wake up call to get united.

His answer was, he don't bother, he just do what he is ask to do, to submit to god's will, he started getting defensive, and say he don't give a damn because those who question only want to cause havoc, must submit to the leadership. But i say, why can't bring up a matter to the leadership and try to resolve it? He say to go and follow the word. Alamak, no wonder his business the debtors all don't pay lah, because he so weak willed.

When i visited a cg, I once spoke to a cg leader, ask him why for 5 years his cg never grow, only 7 people? I say the church should help like when people call in to enquire about cg, they can divert the visitors to cgs that need members. I also brought up the issue why the church so ridiculous to always multiply until the cg become so small, its growth stunted. I saw the cg that was due to multiply in the church org plans. The cg have 15 members, but only 7 are active, the rest are kalafei members only come once in 3 months. Then they multiply the cg... doh.gif without a proper recruitment system !!!! That cg after 3 years evaporated...only 2 members left.

Then the botak head cg leader fumed at me, say don't raise this issue, this is church leadership instructions, he say lah, he don't want to listen because its hisway or the highway. This kind of idiot cg leader...So Damn EGO. But you know what? After few months, the church listen to my proposal, my frens at the church told me, suddenly the church started diverting visitors to cgs that have their growth stunted.

Hah, they so EGO, they don't want to admit that they finally taken up my suggestion..they knew i was right, but they shut me out like that, because they think they more superior than me.
*
wakakak... sabar sikit ok... i am downloading God's message while discussing with HIM what happen to u... so many things lah i need to rearrange words + not to mention do you think devil is happy when you grow ? nooo... sabar sikit ok...
Sophiera
post Jul 30 2014, 12:05 AM

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Everyone chill
de1929
post Jul 30 2014, 12:11 AM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ Jul 29 2014, 11:24 PM)
huh? what leftovers? you mean $$$?

but sometime christians just use the excuse saying "hey don't look at us, we are imperfect, look to god and his word". Its another way or excuse of saying, "I don't want to improve, I am EGO, i don't want to admit i made a mistake".

just last week, i had a debate with my uncle who is a christian, i ask him, why all this abuse in the church, they playing politics with each other? I say no wonder lah, god punish some of the churches by having these religious raids, because sometimes the leaders and their sub-leaders grown proud and lost focus on who is the true enemy than to fight among themselves. Maybe its a wake up call to get united.

His answer was, he don't bother, he just do what he is ask to do, to submit to god's will, he started getting defensive, and say he don't give a damn because those who question only want to cause havoc, must submit to the leadership. But i say, why can't bring up a matter to the leadership and try to resolve it? He say to go and follow the word. Alamak, no wonder his business the debtors all don't pay lah, because he so weak willed.

When i visited a cg, I once spoke to a cg leader, ask him why for 5 years his cg never grow, only 7 people? I say the church should help like when people call in to enquire about cg, they can divert the visitors to cgs that need members. I also brought up the issue why the church so ridiculous to always multiply until the cg become so small, its growth stunted. I saw the cg that was due to multiply in the church org plans. The cg have 15 members, but only 7 are active, the rest are kalafei members only come once in 3 months. Then they multiply the cg... doh.gif without a proper recruitment system !!!! That cg after 3 years evaporated...only 2 members left.

Then the botak head cg leader fumed at me, say don't raise this issue, this is church leadership instructions, he say lah, he don't want to listen because its hisway or the highway. This kind of idiot cg leader...So Damn EGO. But you know what? After few months, the church listen to my proposal, my frens at the church told me, suddenly the church started diverting visitors to cgs that have their growth stunted.

Hah, they so EGO, they don't want to admit that they finally taken up my suggestion..they knew i was right, but they shut me out like that, because they think they more superior than me.
*
ok at least i can write topics by topics. this one first what i got:
just last week, i had a debate with my uncle who is a christian, i ask him, why all this abuse in the church, they playing politics with each other? I say no wonder lah, god punish some of the churches by having these religious raids, because sometimes the leaders and their sub-leaders grown proud and lost focus on who is the true enemy than to fight among themselves. Maybe its a wake up call to get united.


Some church in malaysia undergo church cleanup (aka purifying fire). Too bad while clean-up in progress, if you are part of that church, you will feel the heat anyway and i agree it does not comfortable. Your leader make decision but you suffers.

Our tower of refuge and strength is God, not church. But church is Christ Bride, you hurt the church, the husband (aka Christ) pissed off lahhh... the church in this context means the leaders and office and official structures.

so how to avoid this deadlock ? God's revelation and answers. Are you able to hear God ? then you need to take a step of faith. Here are the case study:

1. if Jesus say stay, it means HE will protect you there regardless what happen. don't trust your eyes and entertain your feeling. Just stay and enjoy that purifying fire. Yes i know it's not your mistakes, your leader mistakes but the safest place is to stay in God's will.

2. if Jesus say move, it means HE wants to protect you from that purifying fire. HE know the fire will damage you so HE relocates you. Trust HIM, whatever place he say just enjoy. Cuz the safest place is to stay in God's will.

3. Jesus can ask you to stay temporary or move temporary. The sharp ears is needed. Timing is everything. God's Grace is sufficient, but your fear eats you up.

4. If Jesus ask you to leave, it's polite i think to tell ur CG leader anyway. Sure cg leader ask for reason, just make up reason ? no..... ask Jesus what to say if your CG ask you A question, B question etc..etc... be attentive to detail.

5. Beware of leaders curse. Leader can say for example: ... alamak.... why move church ? it's not faithful you know... people everywhere same lah..same lah... break his curse in the Name of Jesus, but keep smile and make sure your mouth only say what Jesus authorized. usually blessings.

6. Maintain relationships. leaders are powerful people. keep in touch in professional context, don't bring to heart / emotionally. Who knows after you relocate to another church then GOD ask you to go back ? if u burn the bridge, then looks awful lah in the future. But if the leader burn the bridge, yeah... it's not within ur control rite ?

7. if u already married then it's quite complicated

8. if you are a fulltime minister in that church then .... no comment :-)

----

What i got from Lord Jesus is: you need to discuss with HIM in detail, what to do. Make sure you discuss also the pro and cons. There is a thing called SWOT analysis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SWOT_analysis
The Lord wants you to discuss SWOT analysis for every possible actions that HE put in your heart.

Now the ball is in you to start to have conversation with HIM... c'mon manic boleh ! thumbup.gif











pehkay
post Jul 30 2014, 08:33 AM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ Jul 29 2014, 10:24 PM)
unknownwarrior pehkay tolong jelaskan.
*
Not sure to "jelas" on? These verses are a lot to cover. Firstly, the Gospel of Matthew is not a book of history, but a book of doctrine. Matthew puts together certain historical facts for the purpose of revealing a doctrine. If you compare the four Gospels, you will see that Matthew presents the facts of history in an order different from that found in Mark or John. Mark and John [somewhat] were written according to the sequence of history. The arrangement of the facts in Matthew's record, however, is not according to history, because Matthew presents to us the doctrine concerning the kingdom. Thus, Matthew does not care for historical sequence; he cares for doctrinal sequence.

For example, Matthew 8:1-17 three miracles—the cleansing of the leper, the healing of the paralyzed Gentile servant boy, and the healing of Peter’s mother-in-law—and the healing of many are grouped together to present a meaningful doctrine. Here, the Lord came first to the Jews first (signified by the leper). He came first to reach the Jews to heal them and to bring them salvation. Then, along the way, the Gentiles are believe always by FAITH (centurion). Peter's mother-in-law in vv. 14-15 represents the Jews living at the end of this age, who will be saved by receiving the kingly Savior (Rom. 11:25-26). At that time, during the great tribulation, the Jews in the eyes of God will be "in a fever" (v. 14), "hot" in things other than God. At the end of this age all the remnant of the Jews will be saved in the house of Israel. Furthermore, they will be saved by the kingly Savior's direct touch.

The sequence will be always like this: the Lord came to Jews first, rejected, the Gentiles came in by faith, then the Lord will return to the Jews at the end of the age.

In 9:18-34 we have the repetition of signs. These verses give a brief picture of this age and the coming age, as that in 8:1-17. The daughter of the ruler of the synagogue represents the Jews, and the woman with the hemorrhage represents the Gentiles [again BY FAITH]]. When the daughter died, the woman was healed. After the woman was healed, the daughter was revived. Following this, two blind men and one dumb man were healed. This is a type, showing that when the Jews are cut off, the Gentiles are saved and that after the fullness of the salvation of the Gentiles, the Jews will be saved (Rom. 11:15, 17, 19, 23-26). Following this, the millennium will begin, and at that time all the blind and the dumb will be healed (Isa. 35:5-6).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All those "long-winded" blah notworthy.gif was to present a point, Matthews cares for doctrinal sequence in presenting the kingly Christ.

Ok ... the case of Canannite woman also falls in it. Immediately after the dispute regarding the washing of hands, there is a record of feeding on Jesus (15:21-28). In the original text of the Bible, there were no paragraphs or verses. Thus, the second section was the immediate continuation of the first section. Matthew had a definite reason for putting these two sections together.

His purpose was to show that what the Lord wants is not the washing of hands, but the eating of Him, the taking in of Him as food. He does not want us to wash outwardly; He wants us to eat, to take Him in. wink.gif

The Lord does not care about the washing of hands. Whether you are outwardly dirty or not does not mean anything to Him. What truly matters to the Lord is that your hunger is satisfied. What matters to the Lord is not outward practices, but the inward condition. We should not outwardly wash away the dirt; rather, we need to be cleansed from within.

Verse 22 says, "And behold, a Canaanite woman came out from those regions and cried out, saying, Have mercy on me, Lord, Son of David; my daughter is badly demon-possessed!" Due to the rejection of the religious Jews, the opportunity to contact the heavenly King came to the Gentiles, even to a weak Gentile woman. The Canaanite woman addressed the Lord Jesus as the Lord, the Son of David. As a Gentile woman, it was proper for her to address Christ as the Lord. However, she had no right to call Him Son of David; only the children of Israel were privileged to do so.

Although the Lord was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, at the time of 15:21-28 He was in a Gentile region. This afforded the Gentiles an opportunity to participate in His grace. This bears dispensational significance, showing that Christ came to the Jews first, but due to their unbelief, His salvation turned to the Gentiles (Acts 13:46; Rom. 11:11).

In verse 25 the Gentile woman rightly called Jesus the Lord and worshipped Him, saying, "Lord, help me!" This second time she called Christ only Lord, not the Son of David, because she realized that she was not a child of Israel, but a heathen.

In verse 26 the Lord answered the Canaanite woman: "It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs." The heavenly King's ministry in all His visits created opportunities for Him to reveal Himself further. In the situations created in chapters nine and twelve, He had opportunities to reveal Himself as the Physician, the Bridegroom, the new cloth, the new wine, the Shepherd, the real David, the greater temple, the Lord of the harvest, the greater Jonah, and the greater Solomon.

Here another opportunity was created for Him to reveal Himself as the children's bread. The Canaanite woman considered Him the Lord, a divine Person, and the Son of David, a royal descendant, great and high to reign. But He unveiled Himself to her as small pieces of bread, good for food. This implies that, as the heavenly King, He rules over His people by feeding them with Himself as bread. We can be the proper people in His kingdom only by being nourished with Him as our food. To eat Christ as our supply is the way to be the kingdom people in the reality of the kingdom.

The Lord said that the children's bread should not be thrown to the dogs. This indicates that in the eyes of the Lord all the heathen are dogs, which are unclean in the eyes of God (Lev. 11:26).

When the Lord Jesus referred to the Canaanite woman as a dog, she said, "Yes, Lord; for even the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table" (v. 27). The Canaanite woman, not offended by the Lord’s word, but rather admitting that she was a heathen dog, considered that at that time Christ, after being rejected by the children, the Jews, became crumbs under the table as a portion to the Gentiles. The holy land of Israel was the table on which Christ, the heavenly bread, came as a portion to the children of Israel. But they threw Him off the table to the ground, the Gentile country, so that He became broken crumbs as a portion to the Gentiles. What a realization this Gentile woman had at that time! No wonder the heavenly King admired her faith(v. 28).

The Canaanite woman did not come to the Lord because she was hungry; she came because her daughter was sick. But the Lord turned the situation to the matter of eating. Although the woman’s request had nothing to do with eating, the Lord purposely related her case to the matter of eating to show us that what we need is not outward washing, but eating for the inward nourishing.

In his doctrinal arrangement Matthew put these matters together that we might understand that for the kingdom of the heavens we do not need outward cleansing, but what we need is for Christ to get into us. Are you sick or weak? Do you have certain problems? Do not try to deal with these things in an outward way. Instead, deal with them in an inward way by eating Jesus. In fact, you should forget about all those things. What you need is not outward washing, but Christ coming into you. The Lord seemed to be saying to the Canaanite woman, “You don’t need healing. You need Me! And you do not need Me outwardly; you need Me inwardly. You need to eat Me. I came as bread for people to eat, to digest, and to assimilate. I would like to get into your being, into your system, vessels, and fibers. I would like to get into your very constituent and become you. Thus, you need to eat Me. Don’t deal with things in an outward way. Rather, deal with everything in an inward way by taking Me into you. As long as I can get into you to nourish you, every problem will be solved."


P.S. Sorry ... I have to jump verses for the main point only ... getting too long. You will notice that the disciples and the woman were in the principal of the law, always telling the Lord what to do. Many times, we are always like this.
sonido
post Jul 30 2014, 09:05 AM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ Jul 29 2014, 11:01 PM)
doh.gif you got the whole thing half right.

it means you gotta seek god persistently then he will answer you.

or i think the word is earnestly.

now go and fill in your bible study answer. u should belanja me for helping u. even layman non christian like me can understand better.
*
You are right. Persistence, perseverance and humility... Thanks for the help.
sonido
post Jul 30 2014, 09:08 AM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ Jul 29 2014, 10:24 PM)
unknownwarrior pehkay tolong jelaskan.

Actually I found a place that refers to the old translation also

http://www.gotquestions.org/salvation-gift.html
http://www.gotquestions.org/faith-alone.html

If you still have questions I cannot answer liao. Must call the pro people.
*
Thanks man.. i'll check out the links.
de1929
post Jul 30 2014, 09:58 PM

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God Bless U all :-)
pehkay
post Jul 31 2014, 08:45 AM

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biggrin.gif Grace be with you
TSunknown warrior
post Jul 31 2014, 09:16 AM

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Don't give up.

Even though if you're going through tough time.

Psalm 50:15 - and call on me in the day of trouble; I will deliver you, and you will honor me."


This is only true and available for believers. smile.gif

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jul 31 2014, 09:22 AM
sonido
post Jul 31 2014, 10:23 AM

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QUOTE(de1929 @ Jul 30 2014, 09:58 PM)
God Bless U all :-)
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Brother, dis is a light hearted question. Since you like quoting Matthew so much i am intrigued on another "controversial" verse, the Matthew 5:28. I wish to know your view if its not burdensome. Sorry for the trouble hehe...
TSunknown warrior
post Jul 31 2014, 10:34 AM

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QUOTE(sonido @ Jul 31 2014, 10:23 AM)
Brother, dis is a light hearted question. Since you like quoting Matthew so much i am intrigued on another "controversial" verse, the Matthew 5:28. I wish to know your view if its not burdensome. Sorry for the trouble hehe...
*
This is my take on this verse

Matthew 5:28 - But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

God is just simply saying:

Respect her as a human being.
sonido
post Jul 31 2014, 11:06 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jul 31 2014, 10:34 AM)
This is my take on this verse

Matthew 5:28 - But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

God is just simply saying:

Respect her as a human being.
*
Well yeah but respect is too broad a definition for such a specific instruction.
pehkay
post Jul 31 2014, 11:14 AM

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QUOTE(sonido @ Jul 31 2014, 10:23 AM)
Brother, dis is a light hearted question. Since you like quoting Matthew so much i am intrigued on another "controversial" verse, the Matthew 5:28. I wish to know your view if its not burdensome. Sorry for the trouble hehe...
*
sweat.gif Why is it controversial leh?

The law of the old dispensation deals with the outward act of adultery, whereas the new law of the kingdom deals with the inward motive of the heart.

The Lord just expose that we aren't able to live according to the reality of the kingdom in ourself as we are full of anger and lust. We need the Lord Himself.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Jul 31 2014, 11:30 AM
TSunknown warrior
post Jul 31 2014, 11:15 AM

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QUOTE(sonido @ Jul 31 2014, 11:06 AM)
Well yeah but respect is too broad a definition for such a specific instruction.
*
One way to overcome this is to look at how God look at a person.

Jesus came face to face with many prostitutes during his ministries but I believe He loved them and respect them as human beings from his eyes.

That way If you respect the person from that point of view, you won't threat the person as a sex object, even though that person has no respect for him/herself.



p.s: that's basically how the verse speaks to me. (Matthew 5:28 )

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jul 31 2014, 11:22 AM
sonido
post Jul 31 2014, 11:24 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jul 31 2014, 11:15 AM)
One way to overcome this is to look at how God look at a person.

Jesus came face to face with many prostitutes during his ministries but I believe He loved them and respect them as human beings from his eyes.

That way If you respect the person from that point of view, you won't threat the person as a sex object, even though that person has no respect for him/herself.
*
So your definitive answer is a yes, we must not look women with lust. My vote is a definite no. I'll describe later. But wish to see others views.

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