the only way for those jerks to buck up is to reduce their recruitment.

when people are aware which church are church of assssholes...they won't go there. then the leaders will start paying attention to the "spiritual" needs of their congregation than their own pockets or their own ego pride.

exactly what i am doing..i am creating awareness here to would be christians, new christians and non christians.

how can you help ego jerks? its like a robber want to rob a bank and u know about it...so you provide transport to the robber to rob bank? or course not...you tell everybody about the robber lah...or report to police...moral police.

then leonhart88 tell me to voice out to the robbers not to rob a bank...what is the point?

i go to the robbers and tell them..."hey don't rob the bank"...next thing they will show me their gun and tembak. Like throw pearls at swines that don't appreciate.

i saw a lot of new chrisitans wanting to look for church come here to ask about this church or that.

and non christians hoping for a new life, this forum probably give them encouragement to join church.

my message here is to warn them that the grass is not greenier on the other side. I want to prevent already hurt people who were abused, drug addicts, former prostitutes, destitutely poor from getting further hurt. I am in better position so its my social obligation to help. And don't teach me about giving aid, i know more than that than you. I've participated in buddhist societies to help the poor in Klang Bus Station area...i also help christians before in their aid to provide to Myanmmar refugees. I've gone to org asli area to assist christians to provide tution and edu aid even though i not chrsitian.

sometimes the church or hollywood tend to portray church going people as perfect, honest, friendly and give new hope in the newcomer.

but i am trying to tell them that the people at the church are not perfect and there are politics there.

i care about the people who are about to hurt themselves thinking they will find new life in the church people...

i am not saying that people won't find new life in your god, they probably will. but if they expecting encouragement from the church leaders, not everybody is perfect. well maybe there are good guys in the church but there are bad guys too.

yes i am offensive at least i am honest.

i used to know a lot of frens at school who are suicidal and have pre marital pregnancies go to church ot seek new life...but i am trying to forewarn them that the people in some of the churches are political.

but my message also have a good side, i am telling them to go to a better church...if they see the first signs of a church of asssholes...please leave...i am very sure there are nice churches like the one in gombak called metro tab church...i met a lot of nice people from there.

that's good for you bro. lucky Jesus is kind to us still want to forgives us although we commit many sins.. I myself have lots of sins. I am not perfect. Many Christians just go church and read bible but never apply them to their life. It's very sad. We do not know what happen next, this world is near ending, do you believe? Are you prepared for world end? I am myself not prepared yet, still have many sins    although many pastors said as long as we believe in Jesus so we do not need to be afraid.

you sure or not,  thought your bible says somewhere...your great apostle james say something like, if you love your jesus, you would obey him, therefore if you still knowingly sin, you like again put your jesus on the cross over and over again. You willing to put your lord on the nail cross again?

also confession has to be extremely genuine...after you confess then you sin again...what is the point? Hey i not saying i perfect lah, even i admit i am very sinful person as well....but when pastors say you believe you are safe...they like saying so wat? continue sinning lah...you still be saved... then there is a misconception on confession, must you go to altar call to make confession? then where is in your bible say anything about getting slain in altar call? me not saying that altar call is wrong...but fact is you can make your confession via prayer right?

therefore, to disobey appear to show that the believer not really believe because believer still knowingly sin, knowingly sin show that the believer not so believe. believer who keep on disobeying, he show any love for his jesus or not? you ask yourself lah.

the pastors that teach these stuff, just want more people to join their congregation bigger and bigger, they only interested in the big church, big congregation. Quantity not quality..

thats why i heard from my same friend who works full time from a mega church, that his church of 4000 members, only 60% registered in cell group, registered as members even less.

People who have sin, we non christians are ok with as long as the person is humble and friendly thats important. The thing i don't like about certain christians, the third quality i spoke to you about is that these people tend to be very controlling type and don't accept that they made a mistake.

for you is one sided of course. Yours also one sided what...

but my side tend to be a third party independent view which would attract a lot of attention from non christians who thinks church give them new hope.

to join an abusive church is even more damaging. i am telling the non christians out there, once you join a church after a few months still feeling disillusion, butt out...there are so many churches out there you can join and different views.

what man's way? i am saying the principal...lu tak suka keluar lah...meaning to say...don't mingle in a church that doesn't support your growth..get out...

isn't that what happen to your spiritual ancestor jacob when israel was suffering from famine..that he and his family had to leave the promise land to go to egypt to rejoin his long lost son...?

isn't it god's way too to get out when situation there is untenable?

what man's way? i am saying the principal...lu tak suka keluar lah...meaning to say...don't mingle in a church that doesn't support your growth..get out...

isn't that what happen to your spiritual ancestor jacob when israel was suffering from famine..that he and his family had to leave the promise land to go to egypt to rejoin his long lost son...?

isn't it god's way too to get out when situation there is untenable?

you sure or not,  thought your bible says somewhere...your great apostle james say something like, if you love your jesus, you would obey him, therefore if you still knowingly sin, you like again put your jesus on the cross over and over again. You willing to put your lord on the nail cross again?

also confession has to be extremely genuine...after you confess then you sin again...what is the point? Hey i not saying i perfect lah, even i admit i am very sinful person as well....but when pastors say you believe you are safe...they like saying so wat? continue sinning lah...you still be saved... then there is a misconception on confession, must you go to altar call to make confession? then where is in your bible say anything about getting slain in altar call? me not saying that altar call is wrong...but fact is you can make your confession via prayer right?

therefore, to disobey appear to show that the believer not really believe because believer still knowingly sin, knowingly sin show that the believer not so believe. believer who keep on disobeying, he show any love for his jesus or not? you ask yourself lah.

the pastors that teach these stuff, just want more people to join their congregation bigger and bigger, they only interested in the big church, big congregation. Quantity not quality..

i saw a lot of new chrisitans wanting to look for church come here to ask about this church or that.

and non christians hoping for a new life, this forum probably give them encouragement to join church.

my message here is to warn them that the grass is not greenier on the other side. I want to prevent already hurt people who were abused, drug addicts, former prostitutes, destitutely poor from getting further hurt. I am in better position so its my social obligation to help. And don't teach me about giving aid, i know more than that than you. I've participated in buddhist societies to help the poor in Klang Bus Station area...i also help christians before in their aid to provide to Myanmmar refugees. I've gone to org asli area to assist christians to provide tution and edu aid even though i not chrsitian.

sometimes the church or hollywood tend to portray church going people as perfect, honest, friendly and give new hope in the newcomer.

but i am trying to tell them that the people at the church are not perfect and there are politics there.

i care about the people who are about to hurt themselves thinking they will find new life in the church people...

i am not saying that people won't find new life in your god, they probably will. but if they expecting encouragement from the church leaders, not everybody is perfect. well maybe there are good guys in the church but there are bad guys too.

yes i am offensive at least i am honest.

i used to know a lot of frens at school who are suicidal and have pre marital pregnancies go to church ot seek new life...but i am trying to forewarn them that the people in some of the churches are political.

but my message also have a good side, i am telling them to go to a better church...if they see the first signs of a church of asssholes...please leave...i am very sure there are nice churches like the one in gombak called metro tab church...i met a lot of nice people from there.

oh yeah, call me a hurt person, thats the best argument the christians can come out in their super over defensiveness...so much for christian love.

so when ISMA or perkasa say something about you christians, you go on the defensive means you are hurt ah?

haha,  when you try to defend you try to hit under the belt.

so when you say you are sinner, i suddenly accuse you of being low self esteem you like or not? which obviously not true.

you try to label me as something i am not. so much for thou shall not judge for you guys.

oh yeah, call me a hurt person, thats the best argument the christians can come out in their super over defensiveness...so much for christian love.

so when ISMA or perkasa say something about you christians, you go on the defensive means you are hurt ah?

haha,  when you try to defend you try to hit under the belt.

so when you say you are sinner, i suddenly accuse you of being low self esteem you like or not? which obviously not true.

you try to label me as something i am not. so much for thou shall not judge for you guys.

yeah you are god right..

you say i am a monkey means i am a monkey.

i didn't prove your point...you try to force every excuse to prove your own point.

which is not true.

i suspect you have total ignorance problem judging from your comments.

you see a problem in front of you but you choose to ignore...and stay until it get solve by itself...

wah, way to go Mr Doctor Phil...now you can character assasinate me based on my one liners....you think i go help in charities means i want to have a "weight" in church? ya gotta be kidding me...you slanderous man you. Your church taught you to slander people one ah?

i was giving examples of me helping out in charities in both buddhist and christian missions, to reflect that i also believe some christians are doing good in society. I WAS NOT BOASTING...mr Professor...how dare you accuse me of that.

this is why i don't like the typical third type of christians, who think they know it all, they go to the stage and start accusing this people of this and that while they don't understand the whole situation.

you love your enemies does not mean, you stay there and take their shiit. understand...if you feel you are not growing there, what is the point of hanging around? you're wasting yours and their time.

whether you chose to forgive or not, the ego christian will remain an arseehole..that is a fact. For example, i know of a christian guy at work...who gossip something not good about me, one day we were at lunch in the canteen, i raise some work issues, he was dam offended...he attack me verbally...but next day, he came over and apologise, i apologise too...but ya know what, he never change his behavior...he still tai chi and blame my dept for his own dept faults.

some people never change in spite of forgiveness...so for me i just roll my eyes and choose not to associate so much with him. because he still talk like a snob.

don't you think sometime when a man choose his path he could be going god's way too...because that was the path god chose for him? if one believes in god of course.

i give you one example...one of my best friends, a christian...he told me a story of an immature cell group that he once joined...the cg leader was abusive..and paranoid likes to accuse...one day my friend didn't attend a meeting because he had exam..when he came back the cg leader told the members not to talk to him throughout the whole meeting. but my friend wasn't offended by that..what bothered him was that he was more focused on the word but during meeting they were doing other activities. He thought he wasn't growing and the cg just wasn't doing what he felt he was compatible with.

So when he heard from his friend about this new church...a pastor who came from johor...focusing on discipleship and having many forums of discussion about christianity...he decided to join this church. Its been like many years already, he is quite happy there..church even appointed him a deacon.

so what i am saying is this, if the church is not suit to your growth, please leave...don't stay and get your growth retarded like a hobbit..

yeah you are god right..

you say i am a monkey means i am a monkey.

i didn't prove your point...you try to force every excuse to prove your own point.

which is not true.

Am i saying that i lead by god to leave the church when i am not a christian?

you seem to have a problem understanding what i am saying...

are you like so blind sided to your own opinion that you don't read the whole facts?

am i talking about myself? about if the church not right to get out? i am not talking about myself...

i am talking about the christians or non christians who go to church thinking they would be finally release from their pain, only to get further pain...from churches that are lead wrongly...so the thing to do is to leave for another one.

i make up story your head lah..

some of those i said were reported in the papers...

like the city harvest and the convention center that was build by one church in which so many of its members left...you know which church i mean lah.

i am beginning to understand why my non christian friends are always wary of certain christians, that they tend to FAST JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS.

i am not going to answer sub impact...real idiot....

waste of my time..doesn't seem to show any wisdom

don't even bother to read the rest of the post...and ask me whether i am christian or not...now want to join in the debate...

do your homework !

the way to go about it, is not to join them.

so when they realise their recruitment falling...

only then they realise where they went wrong, only then they would insaf and change

if you join them and still suffer their egoness, they just won't change even if you voice out...

that is people nature...

if you sit there and do nothing and pray, you not exercising your faith man.

sometime to counter fire...you need to use some water to flush it out, not fight fire with fire or fight fire by sitting there and wait for god to save you from it...by just sitting down with no action.

yeah i do, they are brainwashed.

that convention center was a waste of money.

that church is based on a satellite church concept why they need to waste resources and volunteers to go to a place where few of their congregations live?

and they only use it for like once in a month?

if you give 10% won't you want the money channeled to help the poor or to build better teaching facilities at your church rather than waste it on a glamourous building.

just like the crystal cathedral church in USA...today they filing for bankruptcy.

same goes with City Harvest..still got people there stay in spite of the obvious fund abuse.

Nope its not about who argue best.

its about who is genuinely want to discuss this matter.

subimpact don't show any genuineness or frankness.

earlier tell me to leave the forum and say i flamebait...but later want to join in the discussion but never do homework..ask me whether i christian or not.

do you ever not bother to explain when your office email incoming 100 emails a day...then you send one email to this work colleague about a matter...later the colleague ask you where is this email...you don't even want to answer this colleague because this colleague is being lazy and want you to do his work.

same goes for subimpact..lah, want to say something funny...not genuinely want to discuss, want to cause trouble. i am wasting my time with that person.

again you jumping to conclusion.

i am not going to answer sub impact...real idiot....

waste of my time..doesn't seem to show any wisdom

don't even bother to read the rest of the post...and ask me whether i am christian or not...now want to join in the debate...

do your homework !

i go visit church i have to get accepted one? omg...

next time anybody want to join church must apply for VISA

its not the meeting halfway...it is that those egoist don't even meet halfway...they are like KKK...if they think you niggah...they try all sorts of ways to force you out by attrition.