Actually its already answered. You dont want to see it.

SIN makes a sinner, a sinner.

What does that tells you? Praying in tongues is not important?


26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.

No, that's not right.

You cannot call a person washed by the blood of Christ a sinner.

Unless....you're denying Christ' work at the cross. Is that what you're saying now?

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 21 2014, 11:24 PM

Its just a another praying technique. Does not make it more important than the praying in languages understood.

Does it? Does it say that it leads to s Spirit filled life like these verse whcih are rather explicit?

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

i can call a person who sins, a sinner. Thats described by scriptures.
It does not negate the work of Christ on the cross.

Similarly just because half the world does not accept Christ negate


For God so loved THE WORLD



2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD.



Does that mean since Jesus did that, EVERYONE is saved?

I would go as far to say it's better to pray in the spirit. How big you want me to highlight this? Like Paul's big red letter?


26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.

Praying in tongues is being lead by the spirit. Spirit Lead Life.

Does it makes you less of a Christian? No.
Does it mean you can't pray in normal language? No.

Why? Do you feel inferior because of this? No. You have that gifting too.

100 replies @_@

Not for the believer it's not.

Of course not, they have to accept Christ but if they do, God credit their Faith as Righteousness, so how can you call a born again believer a sinner anymore?

First i dont feel inferior at all.

Spirit led life is more than praying in tongues or praying for the matter. Vice versa, is praying in human language being led by the Spirit?
When we pray, we are spiritually connecting to God irrespective of the language.

So NO, i dont believe praying IN TONGUES is necessary for a Spirit led life

So it does NOT negate scriptures. Thats what i am asking about your insinuations.

Can a born again believer sin?

I believe it helps. And from experiences it has. I pray a lot in my normal languages but the dimension of the spirit is different.

This is something you cannot deny.

see the differnce? i dont believe anything due to experiences. i believe only what God's word tells me, no more, no less.

On Romans 8

Romans 8:26 teaches us, “In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express.” Two key points make it highly unlikely that Romans 8:26 is referring to tongues as a prayer language. First, Romans 8:26 states that it is the Spirit who “groans,” not believers. Second, Romans 8:26 states that the “groans” of the Spirit “cannot be expressed.” The very essence of speaking in tongues is uttering words.

On uselfulness of uninterpreted tongues......not much


What, then, is praying in tongues, and how is it different than speaking in tongues? First Corinthians 14:13-17 indicates that praying in tongues is also to be interpreted. As a result, it seems that praying in tongues was offering a prayer to God. This prayer would minister to someone who spoke that language, but would also need to be interpreted so that the entire body could be edified.

This interpretation does not agree with those who view praying in tongues as a prayer language. This alternate understanding can be summarized as follows: praying in tongues is a personal prayer language between a believer and God (1 Corinthians 13:1) that a believer uses to edify himself (1 Corinthians 14:4). This interpretation is unbiblical for the following reasons: 1) How could praying in tongues be a private prayer language if it is to be interpreted (1 Corinthians 14:13-17)? 2) How could praying in tongues be for self-edification when Scripture says that the spiritual gifts are for the edification of the church, not the self (1 Corinthians 12:7). 3) How can praying in tongues be a private prayer language if the gift of tongues is a “sign to unbelievers” (1 Corinthians 14:22)? 4) The Bible makes it clear that not everyone possesses the gift of tongues (1 Corinthians 12:11, 28-30). How could tongues be a gift for self-edification if not every believer can possess it? Do we not all need to be edified?

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/praying-in-ton...l#ixzz3GnMZ8wkw

This post has been edited by prophetjul: Oct 21 2014, 11:51 PM

If it does not negate the work of Christ, then He is eternally saved by Grace, through his Faith.

His repentance is to believe in this, everyday even if he sins. His Salvation is from God as a gift.

His righteousness is the result of 1 Man's obedience Christ, not his.



This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 22 2014, 12:24 AM

If you believe the word of God is confined just to the word of God and does not manifest in the realities of Life, you are living the life of a powerless Salvation. That is what you're believing. You're just echoing what the writer writes. You believe in him more than what scripture says. The Bible is full of accounts of miracles.

Denying that it's only valid during Jesus days and the Apostles days is unwarranted. The Bible never conclude as such. Only Sceptic does. Sceptic Christians who don't believe like you.

The Bible is never about unbelieve but BELIEVING! disbelieving Heart towards God is a SIN, the same when you deny Him of his miracles.

And you question my miracle experiences and have the audacity to say it's not authentic? Who do you think you are? I have enough of your insults.
You can blaspheme me, that's alright, Blaspheme the HS for his work in my life? Consider your own ways whether it's pleasing In God's sight, you are encouraging unbelief, division and arguments.

Praying in tongues is between you and God. Who gives you the idea to take things out of context, calling in other believers the need for interpretation, it shows that you CLEARLY don't understand this portion.

1 Corinthians 14

6 Now, brothers and sisters, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you,.....

What does If I come to you means? Care to think about that for just 3 minutes? WHAT DOES THAT TELLS YOU?

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 22 2014, 10:47 AM

actually salvation is pretty deep and big topic which gotta cover all different perspectives.

But I think I can conclude that Jul and UW refuting is about "initial" salvation vs progressive salvation (continuously live as a Christian (discipleship) until the end). is it?

just wondering, if someone become a christian and he/she left the church (drift/fall away from the God) say after some years, so this person still saved?

This post has been edited by ngaisteve1: Oct 22 2014, 12:38 AM

Only IF He rejects Christ as the messiah on purpose, going back to the Law (Galatians 5:4 & Hebrews 10:26) problem is, does he even understand what that means?

It really boils down to how the Gospel is presented.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 22 2014, 01:31 AM

Any tot on these verse?

Heb 10:26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

Anyone tot on this article?

http://www.insearchoftruth.org/articles/apostasy.html

No Wrong.

This is the accurate definition according to scripture, the rest is the following of the base of this definition.

Romans 5:19 - For just as through the disobedience of the one man (Adam) the many were made sinners,

and in the same breath.

so also through the obedience of the one man (Christ) the many will be made righteous.

Adam made us sinners
Christ makes us righteous

This is what I've been standing on all these while.

Before you accept Christ, you are a sinner because of Adam's disobedience not because you sin so also when you accept Christ you are righteous because of Christ obedience not because you obey.

The things if God is very consistent. If you say Jesus is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow then this is also very true.

You were locked into sin by Adam's Sin, no matter how much good you do, you cannot be righteous and get out of the status of a sinner in the same manner when you're set free by Christ, no matter what you do, you cannot undo your status as Righteous as long as your Faith holds.

If Salvation is given to you as a Gift, something you have never earned anyway, what makes you think you can through the same concept of effort, lose your Salvation when you have never earned it in the first place? (Wages and Gift as in Romans 4:4)

Not unless you are suggesting you got your Salvation because you repented and you lose your Salvation because you disobeyed God.

That clearly makes your Salvation becomes your effort. You contradict the meaning of Grace vs Works! You are also in essence pushing away What Christ did for you at the cross. You have never understood what the work of Christ is. You think you know but when you echoed Believers can change back into a sinner, you are in error of scripture.

The Bible is very clear! If Grace it is not of works and if it's work, it is no longer grace.

YOU ARE TRYING TO MIX BOTH TOGETHER.

The Bible will have no such thing. Old Wine cannot be poured into New Wine Skin, it will burst.

This is scripture, you cannot deny.

One more thing. YOU CAN'T EVEN OPEN YOUR DAMN MOUTH and admit Jesus has cleansed the believers and made Him Righteous through his blood.
What's wrong with you? Devil got your tongue?

Satan wants people to remain in sin and keep on acknowledging he is a sinner all the time so that they remain bound to eternal condemnation.
God wants his people to be free from sin and keep on acknowledging the work of Christ is FINISHED and that he is righteous in Christ to eternal life.

I guess we all now know which camp you belong to seeing that you refuse to acknowledge what Christ did.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 22 2014, 11:15 AM

Read the whole context.

In Hebrews 10, it begins like this..

1 The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves.

It's talking about the Law as the base subject.

The key verse is in here:


For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. 2 Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins.

Verse 4 says : It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. What this means is that the Blood of Christ Can, once and for all.

The Blood of Christ, CAN Remove it once and for all and would no longer have felt guilty of their sins.

Then it goes on to talk about the Roles of the Priest under the OT Covenant in comparison with Christ as the New High Priest.

And in verse 19 onwards, it says:

19 Therefore, brothers and sisters, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, 20by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, 21and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22let us draw near to God with a sincere heart and with the full assurance that faith brings, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water. 23Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. 24And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, 25not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.

If you read that in totality, what does it tells you? Keep on holding on to that Faith. Because if you reject that, then what it means is that you're going back to the way of atonement through the Law which is not of Faith.

From verse 19 all the way to verse 25 is about Faith. Then only it goes to verse 26. But before we answer verse 26, you have to understand what it's all about from verse 1 to 25. Then you will understand what verse 26 is talking about.

Let me asked you a question pertaining to verse 26.

If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,

Have you as a Christian ever sinned wilfully? If you say no, I think we all know that's a lie. I don't mean to be rude but I believe we all do.

If we go by that understanding YOU ALSO do not have anymore sacrifice for sins left.

And not only you but all of us are heading towards eternal condemnation.

If you say that but we can confess for repentance and for forgiveness wat, No. It says, there's no more sacrifice for you when you sin wilfully.
If there's no more sacrifice left, what can you confess upon?

The key word here is : no sacrifice for sins is left.

Question: What does that mean?

Why does it end with the verse?

“But my righteous one will live by faith. in verse 38 and 39?


Here is the hint

1 Corinthians 15:56 - The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.

read that in contrast with verse 18 Of the same Hebrews 10: - 18 And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.

The summary is this.

What Christ has forgiven, it is indeed forgiven completely! Therefore sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary. Meaning vice versa is also true, if it is not completely forgiven past, present and future the sacrifice is still necessary! But we all know that is not the truth, Christ sacrifice is once and for all! Meaning eternal, meaning 24/7.


But if you want to go under law, There is no more sacrifice! Why? Because that Covenant has been made void. Why again? Because Christ has come.

So either you put yourself under Law (verse 26) or you put yourself under grace which is the new and living way (verse 19-25).

That is the context.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 22 2014, 01:37 AM