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 LYN Christian Fellowship V7 (Group), Bible Hope never disappoints!

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sonido
post Aug 24 2014, 06:52 PM

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QUOTE(de1929 @ Aug 24 2014, 03:35 PM)
I have a church that can speak to my life and a care group that proven care. What do u have ?
You think salvation is not easy,
You don't recognize Holy Spirit exist,
...and yet you try to teach us about Christianity ?
*
you on the other hand is smack full of edit (haughtyness). ok you win. i lose. i rest my case here.

icon_rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by sonido: Aug 24 2014, 08:24 PM
sonido
post Aug 24 2014, 06:59 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Aug 24 2014, 04:14 PM)
rclxub.gif

I read through, and I'm taking into consideration the many things you posted before this.
I was wondering why you don't feel secure in Salvation. You said it scares you knowing the truth in your last statement.
I remembered you saying Salvation is only 1 time and I remember you were on the verge of suicide.

I think, now I understand why.

It's because you look at yourself. You think Salvation depends on what you do.

Can I put your heart to rest?

I don't know if you are willing to listen to an older brother in Christ who have read the entire Bible through and through but I pray the Holy Spirit will illuminate your mind.

Ephesians 2:9 - For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--

Do you see the word there not from yourselves? That would include your emotions, your obedience, anything that is from yourself.

And you mentioned this:

The unconditional love of God applies only to the right person who God selected for salvation. Not everyone.
Here is the scripture that I hope will change your mind.

Romans 4:5 - However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

There goes the idea that only Selected "Right" people are given Salvation. Do you see the word there Ungodly? If ungodly is the criteria then the first conditions that one must be right before being accepted by God goes out of the window.

And before you say "work" apply to doing good deeds or doing Church work, No. It Refers to this.
John 6:29 - Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

One more Scripture verse from the Bible.

2 Corinthians 5:19 - that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

Do you see the word there "not counting the people's sin against them and do you see it's talking about in the context of the world?
Do you know why this is possible under the New Covenant?

David? biggrin.gif Do you know He Sinned with Barsheba with lust and murdered the husband?
I would hardly call that an example according to what you say God only choose people with the right conditions.
Yet God called David, a Man after God's own Heart. I can share with you why despite this but it's not what you think it is.
Bro Sonido, The Bible is not about us. It's about God, his works, his Son and the Holy Spirit.
Truth is the Bible is really about God's son (John 5:39 ). Being a manual guide is one thing but we are called to live in the spirit.
Not so much about what can do or not to do. (Colossians 2:20-21)

Which do you think Glorify God? In all the passages about the prodigal Son, the scriptures, magnifying God's work or Man's work? Meaning to say I got my Salvation because of my own effort, emotions is right, I did the right thing. Your effort is your glory not God, that is not according to what the scripture in the light of the New Testament. You are still banking on Old Testament mentality.

It's not about faking repentance. Many Christians do not understand repentance.  
It's not about license to sin under the Grace of God. If you can say such things it means you don't understand
living in the spirit. You don't understand Grace. It's a very big topic and I can't explain all in here in just few paragraphs that is why
I teach in bite size devotions and you really need to see from my overall topic to understand this.

When you quote speaking against the Holy Spirit, do you understand it's context, it's not just blindly quoting this and over emphasizing everything.

You said Salvation is only once and if you reject it, there's no more Salvation.

Then let me ask you.

After you accept Christ, have you ever sin willingly? Be Honest now. The Holy Spirit is watching this.
I know I have. Have you?
*
if you cannot understand then maybe you are not ready yet for the truth. so i wont argue anymore. but just remember what you teach people God will deal with that later.

the last question you said, i answer, yes i sin. i sin through my ignorance.

oh i should add.. with all your high and mighty teaching, with full of abstractions and deep meanings, which you can only write with flowery words, how can a dumb, stupid, humble, poor, idiot spirit like me and the rest who honestly just want to obey God understand you?

and hopefully you re-read again this one,

1 Samuel 16:7
7 But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The Lord does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.”

This post has been edited by sonido: Aug 24 2014, 07:33 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Aug 24 2014, 07:50 PM

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QUOTE(sonido @ Aug 24 2014, 06:59 PM)
if you cannot understand then maybe you are not ready yet for the truth. so i wont argue anymore. but just remember what you teach people God will deal with that later.

the last question you said, i answer, yes i sin. i sin through my ignorance.
*
Bro, biggrin.gif

I am for having Right character but it must work according through Scripture, not what we think is right or wrong.
Not in understanding bits of scripture verse here and there but in totality from Genesis till Revelation.

Man's way is this. I must have the right emotions and character before God will accept me.
and People have been trying this way for centuries. Why do you think God gave the 10 commandments?
Do you think it's really for us to follow to be justified before God?

For 2000 years Man have been trying that and God still says in the Bible.

Romans 3:10 - There is none righteous, NOT EVEN ONE.
What does that mean? It means nobody could. Do you see this now?
Why do you think Jesus came as our Messiah or Saviour?
What is the meaning of Saviour? Ask your self.

To Save us, bro sonido because we can't save ourselves.
If we can have the right conditions before God is able to give us his love and Salvation,
We don't need Jesus! Jesus don't need to come.

It's redundant to think we can through our actions, gain Salvation and still accept the idea that Jesus save us.
People are confuse nowadays as to what the Gospel is really all about.
Hear me Bro. This is the truth.


Man's strength or even emotions goes up and down in a day. This is reality and this is the truth.
If Salvation depends on what we do, then truly before the day is over,
OUR SALVATION IS ALSO OVER!

Do you now see why Jesus came?

Ephesians 2:9 - For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God

Do you see the word there, Gift of God?

What is the meaning of gift? Can you work to get a gift? No!
It's given to you as a gift! Something you didn't earn.
Like Birthday Gift.

Your Heavenly Father loves you. Just like the prodigal son who did not have the chance to prove his repentance through actions throughout the years,
the Father lavish his grace upon him the moment he arrived. Bro anyone can say I repent but I tell you the truth it is YET TO BE PROVEN.
Words are easy to say but actions may not follow and YET the Father restored Him by putting Authority Ring on his finger, the Best Robe on his body and Shoes in his FEET! That is the great Love of the Father!

Now I conclude my explanation in this part 1. Do you see it?

If you are willing to hear me out, I will explain how change in Character, Holiness and Righteousness comes according to scripture.

That will be part 2.





De_Luffy
post Aug 24 2014, 07:53 PM

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AMEN to that Bro UW.......
sonido
post Aug 24 2014, 08:23 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Aug 24 2014, 07:50 PM)
Bro,  biggrin.gif

I am for having Right character but it must work according through Scripture, not what we think is right or wrong.
Not in understanding bits of scripture verse here and there but in totality from Genesis till Revelation.

Man's way is this. I must have the right emotions and character before God will accept me.
and People have been trying this way for centuries. Why do you think God gave the 10 commandments?
Do you think it's really for us to follow to be justified before God?

For 2000 years Man have been trying that and God still says in the Bible.

Romans 3:10 - There is none righteous, NOT EVEN ONE.
What does that mean? It means nobody could. Do you see this now?
Why do you think Jesus came as our Messiah or Saviour?
What is the meaning of Saviour? Ask your self.

To Save us, bro sonido because we can't save ourselves.
If we can have the right conditions before God is able to give us his love and Salvation,
We don't need Jesus! Jesus don't need to come.

It's redundant to think we can through our actions, gain Salvation and still accept the idea that Jesus save us.
People are confuse nowadays as to what the Gospel is really all about.
Hear me Bro. This is the truth.
Man's strength or even emotions goes up and down in a day. This is reality and this is the truth.
If Salvation depends on what we do, then truly before the day is over,
OUR SALVATION IS ALSO OVER!

Do you now see why Jesus came?

Ephesians 2:9 - For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God

Do you see the word there, Gift of God?

What is the meaning of gift? Can you work to get a gift? No!
It's given to you as a gift! Something you didn't earn.
Like Birthday Gift.

Your Heavenly Father loves you. Just like the prodigal son who did not have the chance to prove his repentance through actions throughout the years,
the Father lavish his grace upon him the moment he arrived. Bro anyone can say I repent but I tell you the truth it is YET TO BE PROVEN.
Words are easy to say but actions may not follow and YET the Father restored Him by putting Authority Ring on his finger, the Best Robe on his body and Shoes in his FEET! That is the great Love of the Father!

Now I conclude my explanation in this part 1. Do you see it?

If you are willing to hear me out, I will explain how change in Character, Holiness and Righteousness comes according to scripture.

That will be part 2.
*
doh.gif
why is it always about work ?

who says me or anyone is working hard to gain salvation?

why is it so hard for you to understand? the in-born ability?

do you understand now?

it is in-born in our heart which we cannot change. for example i dislike stealing for no reason other than my heart say it. i do not use it to bargain for salvation. haiyaaa.... pls la pls understand..

now pls read the text below

1 Samuel 16:7
7 But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The Lord does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.”

what did God say about a person heart? you tell me? is David working hard to show God he has an amazing heart so he can be chosen?

now you trully understand what i mean?

pls stop talking about work. is all work work work to you.

(do you know why i keep fighting you? because i wish to learn. somehow i find all these funny you know... we got disagreement on our understanding... small isssue really.. hope you don't mind. this is nothing for me. but first i want to thank you because in certain way you manage to show me the truth.)

This post has been edited by sonido: Aug 24 2014, 09:16 PM
Sophiera
post Aug 24 2014, 09:39 PM

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Alamak why so defensive? Like, everything we tell you is salah.

This post has been edited by Sophiera: Aug 24 2014, 09:40 PM
sonido
post Aug 24 2014, 09:50 PM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ Aug 24 2014, 09:39 PM)
Alamak why so defensive? Like, everything we tell you is salah.
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you mean me? i just want the whole truth. even God i question whether His methods are true or not. the reason? because i want a very strong foundation of faith in my heart. i am not going for lukewarm christian who knows only small stuffs this and that...

so far UW fail to convince me. his belief in the Prodigal Son story is still very wrong to me. if you wish to know more you need to question everything. so far God never fails to tell me the truth. except for certain things which i think is because i am not ready yet for the answer.

also, in a way this is a test to see the patience of a person heart.

This post has been edited by sonido: Aug 24 2014, 09:53 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Aug 24 2014, 09:59 PM

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QUOTE(sonido @ Aug 24 2014, 08:23 PM)
doh.gif
why is it always about work ?

who says me or anyone is working hard to gain salvation?

why is it so hard for you to understand? the in-born ability?

do you understand now?

it is in-born in our heart which we cannot change. for example i dislike stealing for no reason other than my heart say it. i do not use it to bargain for salvation. haiyaaa.... pls la pls understand..

now pls read the text below

1 Samuel 16:7
7 But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The Lord does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.”

what did God say about a person heart? you tell me? is David working hard to show God he has an amazing heart so he can be chosen?

now you trully understand what i mean?

pls stop talking about work. is all work work work to you.

(do you know why i keep fighting you? because i wish to learn. somehow i find all these funny you know... we got disagreement on our understanding... small isssue really.. hope you don't mind. this is nothing for me. but first i want to thank you because in certain way you manage to show me the truth.)
*
Brother,

God chose David and Saul and looks at their Heart for Kingship / Ruler-ship over the People of Israel.
Not to justify for God's Love or Salvation. That is the difference.

God has always love them because if you say they were chosen because their Heart is right, Bro, Saul did many wrong and disobeyed God by refusing to completely destroy the enemies of Amalekites (1 Samuel 15:22) And He disobeyed by refusing to submit to the Prophet Samuel (1 Samuel 15:24-26)
and David disobeyed God by Sinning with Lust and murder. Don't you think God can see into the future before choosing any of them?


When I mention work, it's not pertaining to tasks or jobs in Church or in Corporate world.
It's referring to anything that Man tried to justify himself before God, anything in tangible and non tangible sense.
Can be emotions, the Heart, whatever.

Everybody's heart is evil. NO EXCEPTION. The inborn nature of everyone is sinful. Why?
Because we all inherited Adam's Sin, His guilt and disobedience was pass on to everyone.

You may do right in one area but you will have flaws in other area. Inherited from Adam we just cannot do right in the long run.
You may say that you don't like stealing and you don't use that as bargaining leverage for Salvation. Granted.
but the nature of Sin is still in you whether you like it or not.

And God doesn't view Sin like How Man view Sin.

Sin is still Sin, no matter what how right we condition our Heart or try to do the Right thing, God will not accept us on the basis of what we do or think.
Why? Because there is none who is able to be Righteous NOT ONE, bro. All of us have many Flaws.
God knows this so He sent Jesus Christ. biggrin.gif And that my friend, is the greatest things ever happened to Mankind, We now have Hope!



It's okay bro, as long as you are open to discussion we can sort of "fight" in this debate but don't take it to heart, it doesn't mean I look down on you or ignore what you went through, as you said yourself you are "foolish" ( how can a dumb, stupid, humble, poor, idiot spirit like me and the rest who honestly just want to obey God understand you?) and you are honestly want to obey God.

I can explain why. I believe you have been touch by God's spirit. What is my basis for saying this? NOBODY can submit to God unless you have the Spirit of God in you.

1 Corinthians 12:3 - Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

You have the Holy Spirit in you. biggrin.gif Rejoice!



de1929
post Aug 24 2014, 10:04 PM

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QUOTE(sonido @ Aug 24 2014, 06:52 PM)
you on the other hand is smack full of edit (haughtyness). ok you win. i lose. i rest my case here.

icon_rolleyes.gif
*
dude, we care about you, and we want you to be maximal in Christ. Is that wrong ?
ngaisteve1
post Aug 24 2014, 10:54 PM

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Hi guys, after some time observing, I think to share, explain and discuss with sonido more effective, it is better to meet up face to face rather than sending text through the forum.

Hi Sonido, if you really don't mind, we can meet up one of this days. Maybe KL/PJ. If you guys (Sonido, de1929 and UW) can PM me your HP, I can create a whatsapp group to set the day and time lo.
sonido
post Aug 24 2014, 11:19 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Aug 24 2014, 09:59 PM)
Brother,

God chose David and Saul and looks at their Heart for Kingship / Ruler-ship over the People of Israel.
Not to justify for God's Love or Salvation. That is the difference.

God has always love them because if you say they were chosen because their Heart is right, Bro, Saul did many wrong and disobeyed God by refusing to completely destroy the enemies of Amalekites (1 Samuel 15:22) And He disobeyed by refusing to submit to the Prophet Samuel (1 Samuel 15:24-26)
and David disobeyed God by Sinning with Lust and murder. Don't you think God can see into the future before choosing any of them?
When I mention work, it's not pertaining to tasks or jobs in Church or in Corporate world.
It's referring to anything that Man tried to justify himself before God, anything in tangible and non tangible sense.
Can be emotions, the Heart, whatever.

Everybody's heart is evil. NO EXCEPTION. The inborn nature of everyone is sinful. Why?
Because we all inherited Adam's Sin, His guilt and disobedience was pass on to everyone.

You may do right in one area but you will have flaws in other area. Inherited from Adam we just cannot do right in the long run.
You may say that you don't like stealing and you don't use that as bargaining leverage for Salvation. Granted.
but the nature of Sin is still in you whether you like it or not.

And God doesn't view Sin like How Man view Sin.

Sin is still Sin, no matter what how right we condition our Heart or try to do the Right thing, God will not accept us on the basis of what we do or think.
Why? Because there is none who is able to be Righteous NOT ONE, bro. All of us have many Flaws.
God knows this so He sent Jesus Christ.  biggrin.gif And that my friend, is the greatest things ever happened to Mankind, We now have Hope!
It's okay bro, as long as you are open to discussion we can sort of "fight" in this debate  but don't take it to heart, it doesn't mean I look down on you or ignore what you went through, as you said yourself you are "foolish" ( how can a dumb, stupid, humble, poor, idiot spirit like me and the rest who honestly just want to obey God understand you?) and you are honestly want to obey God.

I can explain why. I believe you have been touch by God's spirit. What is my basis for saying this? NOBODY can submit to God unless you have the Spirit of God in you.

1 Corinthians 12:3  - Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

You have the Holy Spirit in you.  biggrin.gif Rejoice!
*
Of course David or me and you are not pure. But amongst all that impurity in our heart there is a gem. which God wants to polish and make it shine.

And you are still wrong concerning David selection. When God selected David He provided Him with His Spirit which means David received Salvation at that moment.

Samuel 1:7
7 But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The Lord does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.”

Samuel 1:13
"So Samuel took the horn of oil and anointed him in the presence of his brothers, and from that day on the Spirit of the Lord came powerfully upon David. Samuel then went to Ramah."

This is concrete proof that God made a selection for salvation to a person based on the person's HEART. I cannot prove myself so I use the Bible as the sole source of my conviction. Your answer and your belief is what I have gone through before, I believed it before, it came from church teaching, but I am able to see (or God is the one who showed me) the whole picture rather than just a specific situation to realize the fatal flaws in that belief of yours that says all men including the evil ones are capable of receving salvation which you are still holding and teaching people.

You should know there are people God hates. If you need me to quotes them I will. Is this what you want to deny and says God loves everyone and God can provide salvation to everyone? for free and easy even? c'mon la...

On second thought, its not salvation cannot be provided to everyone, because Jesus sacrifice is meant for everyone, its just God refuse to give salvation to some people. why He refuse them, must be because of their corrupt heart.

This post has been edited by sonido: Aug 24 2014, 11:48 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Aug 24 2014, 11:47 PM

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QUOTE(sonido @ Aug 24 2014, 11:19 PM)
Of course David or me and you are not pure. But amongst all that impurity in our heart there is a gem. which God wants to polish and make it shine.

And you are still wrong concerning David selection. When God selected David He provided Him with His Spirit which means David received Salvation at that moment.

Samuel 1:7
7 But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The Lord does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.”

Samuel 1:13
"So Samuel took the horn of oil and anointed him in the presence of his brothers, and from that day on the Spirit of the Lord came powerfully upon David. Samuel then went to Ramah."

This is concrete proof that God made a selection for salvation to a person based on the person's HEART. I cannot prove myself so I use the Bible as the sole source of my conviction. Your answer and your belief is what I have gone through before, I believed it before, it came from church teaching, but I am able to see (or God is the one who showed me) the whole picture rather than just a specific situation to realize the fatal flaws in that belief of yours that says all men including the evil ones are capable of receving salvation which you are still holding and teaching people.

You should know there are people God hates. If you need me to quotes them I will. Is this what you want to deny and says God loves everyone and God can provide salvation to everyone? for free and easy even? c'mon la...
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Bro Sonido,

Read the entire Chapter of I Samuel 16.
The reason why God Anoint David with oil and his Spirit came upon him because He was selected to be King. It's not in the context of Salvation. rclxub.gif
Brother where in the Bible does it says the spirit of God came David for Salvation?

1 Samuel 16:1

1 The Lord said to Samuel, “How long will you mourn for Saul, since I have rejected him as king over Israel? Fill your horn with oil and be on your way; I am sending you to Jesse of Bethlehem. I have chosen one of his sons to be king.

What if I can prove to you that Evil Man can receive Salvation? Will that put your heart to rest that God wants all Man to be saved?

Read Acts 9

1 Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the Lord’s disciples. He went to the high priest 2 and asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any there who belonged to the Way, whether men or women, he might take them as prisoners to Jerusalem. 3 As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”

5“Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked.

“I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied. 6“Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”

7 The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone. 8 Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus. 9 For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink anything.


And Saul or Paul before this had nothing in his heart but to murder Christians became of the of the greatest Apostles of God.

What do you say Bro?


sonido
post Aug 25 2014, 12:00 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Aug 24 2014, 11:47 PM)
Bro Sonido,

Read the entire Chapter of I Samuel 16.
The reason why God Anoint David with oil and his Spirit came upon him because He was selected to be King. It's not in the context of Salvation. rclxub.gif
Brother where in the Bible does it says the spirit of God came David for Salvation?

1 Samuel 16:1

1 The Lord said to Samuel, “How long will you mourn for Saul, since I have rejected him as king over Israel? Fill your horn with oil and be on your way; I am sending you to Jesse of Bethlehem. I have chosen one of his sons to be king.

What if I can prove to you that Evil Man can receive Salvation? Will that put your heart to rest that God wants all Man to be saved?

Read Acts 9

1 Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the Lord’s disciples. He went to the high priest 2 and asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any there who belonged to the Way, whether men or women, he might take them as prisoners to Jerusalem. 3 As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”

5“Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked.

“I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied. 6“Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”

7 The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone. 8 Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus. 9 For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink anything.
And Saul or Paul before this had nothing in his heart but to murder Christians became of the of the greatest Apostles of God.

What do you say Bro?
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Duh... how could you make such distinction between God selection? Where in the Bible say such distinction occur and not related to salvation? Do you know what salvation is? in simplest very simple term to you. Salvation = Selection. A person selected by God to do His bidding, as a prophet, a king, a messenger, etc and the main pre-requisitie is they must received His Spirit first.

And you think Saul (Paul) is evil? He is a very honest, yes man type of man who through his IGNORANCE prosecuted God's people by the order of his church. And he did not received God Spirit until he went blind first. Sin via ignorance can be forgiven as written in,

Numbers 15:27-31
“If one person sins unintentionally, he shall offer a female goat a year old for a sin offering. 28 And the priest shall make atonement before the Lord for the person who makes a mistake, when he sins unintentionally, to make atonement for him, and he shall be forgiven. 29 You shall have one law for him who does anything unintentionally, for him who is native among the people of Israel and for the stranger who sojourns among them. 30 But the person who does anything with a high hand, whether he is native or a sojourner, reviles the Lord, and that person shall be cut off from among his people. 31 Because he has despised the word of the Lord and has broken his commandment, that person shall be utterly cut off; his iniquity shall be on him.”



TSunknown warrior
post Aug 25 2014, 12:21 AM

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QUOTE(sonido @ Aug 25 2014, 12:00 AM)
Duh... how could you make such distinction between God selection? Where in the Bible say such distinction occur and not related to salvation? Do you know what salvation is? in simplest very simple term to you. Salvation = Selection. A person selected by God to do His bidding, as a prophet, a king, a messenger, etc and the main pre-requisitie is they must received His Spirit first.

And you think Saul (Paul) is evil? He is a very honest, yes man type of man who through his IGNORANCE prosecuted God's people by the order of his church. And he did not received God Spirit until he went blind first. Sin via ignorance can be forgiven as written in,

Numbers 15:27-31
“If one person sins unintentionally, he shall offer a female goat a year old for a sin offering. 28 And the priest shall make atonement before the Lord for the person who makes a mistake, when he sins unintentionally, to make atonement for him, and he shall be forgiven. 29 You shall have one law for him who does anything unintentionally, for him who is native among the people of Israel and for the stranger who sojourns among them. 30 But the person who does anything with a high hand, whether he is native or a sojourner, reviles the Lord, and that person shall be cut off from among his people. 31 Because he has despised the word of the Lord and has broken his commandment, that person shall be utterly cut off; his iniquity shall be on him.”
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Because nobody could be saved under the Old Testament?
Jesus had not come?

Salvation means Deliverance? Not Selection?

Do you know there is a different between when God's Spirit coming upon David and being Filled with the Spirit as in the book of Acts Chapter 2 with the Apostles?

Yes Paul was persecuting the Christian under Ignorance, but that does not remove the fact that the intend to Murder was intentional, He was the one who went to the Hight Priest and request personally for the persecution letter? This part of taking one's life with murder was intentional Bro.

It's like this. A husband mistakenly accused the wife of adultery and murdered her, later it was found to be a misunderstanding. The Husband may have been in ignorance of the fact there wasn't any adultery but that doesn't excuse the fact that His act of murder is still unjustifiable. It's still wrong.

Honest or not that doesn't remove the fact that Saul Heart wasn't RIGHT in the first place and yet God chose Him. As you said the person must be humble, kind, obedience, etc. How can a kind, humble person with the right heart murder? I don't think if anyone can actually murder someone has the right heart.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Aug 25 2014, 12:32 AM
De_Luffy
post Aug 25 2014, 12:32 AM

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Since when Salvation become Selection? Salvation is more like grace of God given to us the moment you accepted Christ as your Savior and King

sal·va·tion
salˈvāSHən/Submit
nounTHEOLOGY
noun: salvation
deliverance from sin and its consequences, believed by Christians to be brought about by faith in Christ.
synonyms: redemption, deliverance, reclamation
"salvation by way of repentance"
antonyms: damnation
preservation or deliverance from harm, ruin, or loss.
"they try to sell it to us as economic salvation"
synonyms: lifeline, preservation; More
a source or means of being saved from harm, ruin, or loss.
noun: one's salvation; plural noun: one's salvations
"his only salvation was to outfly the enemy"
Origin

Middle English: from Old French salvacion, from ecclesiastical Latin salvation- (from salvare ‘to save’), translating Greek sōtēria .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvation
TSunknown warrior
post Aug 25 2014, 12:42 AM

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QUOTE(De_Luffy @ Aug 25 2014, 12:32 AM)
Since when Salvation become Selection? Salvation is more like grace of God  given to us the moment you accepted Christ as your Savior and King

sal·va·tion
salˈvāSHən/Submit
nounTHEOLOGY
noun: salvation
deliverance from sin and its consequences, believed by Christians to be brought about by faith in Christ.
synonyms: redemption, deliverance, reclamation
"salvation by way of repentance"
antonyms: damnation
preservation or deliverance from harm, ruin, or loss.
"they try to sell it to us as economic salvation"
synonyms: lifeline, preservation; More
a source or means of being saved from harm, ruin, or loss.
noun: one's salvation; plural noun: one's salvations
"his only salvation was to outfly the enemy"
Origin

Middle English: from Old French salvacion, from ecclesiastical Latin salvation- (from salvare ‘to save’), translating Greek sōtēria .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvation
*
I think his meaning is that how can you be chosen by God if you are not saved, it goes hand in hand.
Under the Old Testament it is possible to have a place in God's divine plan and yet not have the spirit of God upon Him.

For example King Cyrus of Persia.

God used Him to fulfil his divine plan for his people, yet he was a Pagan King. But our Christian community cites his name as an exemplary!

But I need to be clear with this.

Having the Spirit of God under the Old Testament does not mean the person is saved from the bondage of sin that leads to death.
There is a difference.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Aug 25 2014, 12:48 AM
De_Luffy
post Aug 25 2014, 12:54 AM

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Because human has rebelled against God and turned away from Him once again is 1 of the reason Jesus born into the world also it was already said many times in the book of jeremiah, zechariah and few other prophets Jesus will come to save the sinners
sonido
post Aug 25 2014, 08:07 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Aug 25 2014, 12:21 AM)
Because nobody could be saved under the Old Testament?
Jesus had not come?

Salvation means Deliverance? Not Selection?

Do you know there is a different between when God's Spirit coming upon David and being Filled with the Spirit as in the book of Acts Chapter 2 with the Apostles?

Yes Paul was persecuting the Christian under Ignorance, but that does not remove the fact that the intend to Murder was intentional, He was the one who went to the Hight Priest and request personally for the persecution letter? This part of taking one's life with murder was intentional Bro.

It's like this. A husband mistakenly accused the wife of adultery and murdered her, later it was found to be a misunderstanding. The Husband may have been in ignorance of the fact there wasn't any adultery but that doesn't excuse the fact that His act of murder is still unjustifiable. It's still wrong.

Honest or not that doesn't remove the fact that Saul Heart wasn't RIGHT in the first place and yet God chose Him. As you said the person must be humble, kind, obedience, etc. How can a kind, humble person with the right heart murder? I don't think if anyone can actually murder someone has the right heart.
*
You are such an ignorant person. You claim you speak on behalf of God and when i asked for a specific verse which said there is a diference between a person selected by God and salvation. No person can work for God if not Gods love resides in tht person. Period. Dont twist words with me ok.

but wait i got so many works to do today. When i hv time i will continue with our little debate. Yu just wait and be careful what u teach people.
sonido
post Aug 25 2014, 08:09 AM

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QUOTE(De_Luffy @ Aug 25 2014, 12:32 AM)
Since when Salvation become Selection? Salvation is more like grace of God  given to us the moment you accepted Christ as your Savior and King

sal·va·tion
salˈvāSHən/Submit
nounTHEOLOGY
noun: salvation
deliverance from sin and its consequences, believed by Christians to be brought about by faith in Christ.
synonyms: redemption, deliverance, reclamation
"salvation by way of repentance"
antonyms: damnation
preservation or deliverance from harm, ruin, or loss.
"they try to sell it to us as economic salvation"
synonyms: lifeline, preservation; More
a source or means of being saved from harm, ruin, or loss.
noun: one's salvation; plural noun: one's salvations
"his only salvation was to outfly the enemy"
Origin

Middle English: from Old French salvacion, from ecclesiastical Latin salvation- (from salvare ‘to save’), translating Greek sōtēria .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvation
*
Its ok for you to believe that. I see no harm in that. Our differences is not going to shake the foundation that Christ has laid. Dont worry.
ngaisteve1
post Aug 25 2014, 08:34 AM

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which church you go to sonido every week?

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