Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Bump Topic Topic Closed RSS Feed
110 Pages  1 2 3 > » Bottom

Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+

 Is the bubble finally bursting? 2014, V2

views
     
TScranx
post Jan 14 2014, 05:18 PM, updated 12y ago

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,360 posts

Joined: Mar 2010
user posted image

the only bear (DDD) thread in this forum.

4 Critical Signs of a Bubble Market (cybermaster98)
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/3031756

Top poster

Poster Posts
gspirit01 222
jolokia 181
icemanfx 171
bearbearwong 149
BTimes 105
TiramisuCoffee 103

QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Nov 15 2013, 11:14 AM)
The collapse of the US housing market bubble emphasizes how important it is to figure out what property is really worth, from a fundamental perspective. Make sure you’re not over-paying!

There are 4 yardsticks to avoid buying in bubble markets:

•Price to Rent Ratio (or Yield)
•Relative Prices
•Affordability
•Price of new builds


VALUATION TOOL 1: THE PRICE TO RENT RATIO

The gross rental yield) is the housing parallel to the price/earnings ratio. Here is a set of rules of thumb for the housing market:

VALUATION YARDSTICKS FOR THE HOUSING MARKET

PRICE/RENT RATIO GROSS RENTAL YIELD (%)
5 20 Very undervalued
6.7 15 Very undervalued
8.3 12 Undervalued
10 10 Undervalued
12.5 8 Borderline undervalued
14.2 7 Fairly priced
16.7 6 Fairly priced
20 5 Borderline overvalued
25 4 Overvalued
33.3 3 Overvalued
40 2.5 Very overvalued
50 2 Very overvalued

But there are exceptions to this. When strong future growth in value is expected e.g in areas where transport infrastructure is being upgraded then relatively weak present earnings can be acceptable.

There are several good reasons why people should pay attention to the 'valuation parameters':

Higher rental yields push the housing market higher

If rental yield levels are high, this will tend to mean that the interest cost of buying a house is low, compared to the cost of renting a house:

•Potential buyers will pay less to borrow from the bank (in order to buy) than they pay when renting a house. Many will move from being renters to buyers.
•Entrepreneurs will find it makes sense to buy houses to make money, i.e., buy in order to rent them out.

Both these factors put upward pressure on house prices.

Lower rental yields put downward pressure house prices

If rental yield levels are low, this will tend to mean that the interest cost of buying a house is high, compared to the cost of renting a house:

•Potential buyers will find that to buy a house involves paying much more to the bank, than it costs to rent a house. Buyers, especially first-time buyers, may have difficulty financing housing. Banks will be worried about over-lending at loan-to-income ratios which mean that a slight increase in interest rates will mean financial crisis for the borrower.
•Entrepreneurs will find that buying-to-let won't pay.

The house price can be viewed as a kind of circle, with houses prices moving from yields of (say) 4% to 11%

•Yields shifting down to 4% would represent danger.
•Yields rising to 11% would signal opportunity.


VALUATION TOOL 2: RELATIVE PRICES

People tend to actively look for cheaper and better alternatives. Where houses are very highly priced, people will seek more affordable alternatives. So if you’re buying property that’s amazingly expensive on a sqaure foot basis compared to its surrounding developments – BEWARE!


VALUATION TOOL 3: AFFORDABILITY

If house prices are so high that few people can actually afford to buy them, then their value will likely fall in future. A reasonable measure of value is a country’s GDP per capita. In a country where the ratio of house prices to GDP/capita is high, it’s a fair bet that houses are overvalued.

Relative to GDP/Capita levels:
•House prices in Luxembourg, Belgium, Norway, Denmark and Austria seem cheap.
•House prices in the UK, Italy, France and the Netherlands seem comparatively expensive.


VALUATION TOOL 4: PRICE OF NEW BUILDS

If house prices are much higher than the cost of building (construction costs), developers are motivated to put up buildings. So when you see a rush by developers to build, that’s a danger sign. As new supply comes into the housing market, that tends to put pressure on prices. So when house prices are far greater than new-build costs, it's a very clear signal that prices are likely to come down.


This post has been edited by cranx: Jan 20 2014, 12:25 AM
Baohulu55
post Jan 14 2014, 05:21 PM

Casual
***
Junior Member
324 posts

Joined: Apr 2013


Maybe?
accetera
post Jan 14 2014, 05:26 PM

Ambassador of ChatHouz AI
********
All Stars
10,777 posts

Joined: Sep 2009


The "bubble" has been bursting already for about 3 months. Hope it will recover by around Q3.
gspirit01
post Jan 14 2014, 05:26 PM

Enthusiast
*****
Senior Member
773 posts

Joined: Dec 2013
O no! I became the biggest bear!
BTimes
post Jan 14 2014, 05:40 PM

Enthusiast
*****
Senior Member
916 posts

Joined: Jan 2013
Oh no, I'm in the (black) list! tongue.gif
SUSjolokia
post Jan 14 2014, 05:41 PM

So Hot It Burns..!!!
*******
Senior Member
3,274 posts

Joined: May 2013


Me ranked No.2 only ?? agrrhh

Let see how many post before Cherroy closed it..lol

Though I notice there r many thread on GST & RPGT effect on properties price able to sneak through his radar. .rofl
whyseej00
post Jan 14 2014, 05:43 PM

Enthusiast
*****
Junior Member
731 posts

Joined: Apr 2005
From: KL, Malaysia


Checked with my Thai and Vietnam friends. Our property is still cheaper
Wiredx
post Jan 14 2014, 05:47 PM

On my way
****
Senior Member
592 posts

Joined: May 2010
QUOTE(whyseej00 @ Jan 14 2014, 05:43 PM)
Checked with my Thai and Vietnam friends. Our property is still cheaper
*
Discussion over then
cheahcw2003
post Jan 14 2014, 05:48 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
5,379 posts

Joined: Jul 2009


this thread is repeated like many other similar thread discussing the same topic.
gspirit01
post Jan 14 2014, 05:49 PM

Enthusiast
*****
Senior Member
773 posts

Joined: Dec 2013
QUOTE(whyseej00 @ Jan 14 2014, 05:43 PM)
Checked with my Thai and Vietnam friends. Our property is still cheaper
*
My friends told me vietnam prop bubble burst already. Some declined as much as 40-50%!
accetera
post Jan 14 2014, 05:52 PM

Ambassador of ChatHouz AI
********
All Stars
10,777 posts

Joined: Sep 2009


QUOTE(lynforum @ Jan 14 2014, 05:46 PM)
kindly elaborate  rolleyes.gif
*
An unprecedented amount of sales dropout in almost all new launches, some quite bad (dowan mentioned which project but is discussed here in LYN also). Alot of people are selling in subsale now. Some giving generous discounts.

On the other hand, several new launches will be coming onstream gradually, at a much slower pace. Developers expect people will "cool down" from the cooling measures as we are still pretty much at the preliminary stage of "Inflation Uprising" (you guys probably know what is going up again).

Technically, the Malaysian bubble is more akin to a slowdown.

This post has been edited by accetera: Jan 14 2014, 05:54 PM
whyseej00
post Jan 14 2014, 05:53 PM

Enthusiast
*****
Junior Member
731 posts

Joined: Apr 2005
From: KL, Malaysia


QUOTE(gspirit01 @ Jan 14 2014, 05:49 PM)
My friends told me vietnam prop bubble burst already. Some declined as much as 40-50%!
*
I just talked with my Vietnam and Thai friends last weekend. Some are in real estate business too. City prices still higher than us.

Condos can go to USD 3 million (almost rm 10 mil!) In some hot areas
MaxKHOO
post Jan 14 2014, 05:56 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
233 posts

Joined: Mar 2011


QUOTE(accetera @ Jan 14 2014, 05:26 PM)
The "bubble" has been bursting already for about 3 months. Hope it will recover by around Q3.
*
Can't see any bubble bursting in the last 3 mths, prices stay stagnant.
accetera
post Jan 14 2014, 06:01 PM

Ambassador of ChatHouz AI
********
All Stars
10,777 posts

Joined: Sep 2009


QUOTE(MaxKHOO @ Jan 14 2014, 05:56 PM)
Can't see any bubble bursting in the last 3 mths,  prices stay stagnant.
*
Perhaps the so-called "Bubble" in the form of a significant % decrease in total transactions - both primary and secondary.

For upcoming projects, some developers are topping up 5%-20% increment in prices.

The people in the industry is seeing it like this, unfortunately.

This post has been edited by accetera: Jan 14 2014, 06:03 PM
cheahcw2003
post Jan 14 2014, 06:01 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
5,379 posts

Joined: Jul 2009


QUOTE(MaxKHOO @ Jan 14 2014, 05:56 PM)
Can't see any bubble bursting in the last 3 mths,  prices stay stagnant.
*
+1
some can't differentiate in between "slow down" and "bubble bustling"
the high drop out rate on the new launches are mainly due to the credit tightening.
gspirit01
post Jan 14 2014, 06:15 PM

Enthusiast
*****
Senior Member
773 posts

Joined: Dec 2013
QUOTE(whyseej00 @ Jan 14 2014, 05:53 PM)
I just talked with my Vietnam and Thai friends last weekend. Some are in real estate business too. City prices still higher than us.

Condos can go to USD 3 million (almost rm 10 mil!) In some hot areas
*
It did burst in vietnam.

http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/Asia/Vietnam

http://english.sina.com/business/2012/1129/532210.html

This post has been edited by gspirit01: Jan 14 2014, 06:19 PM
SUSUFO-ET
post Jan 14 2014, 06:18 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
6,747 posts

Joined: Sep 2010


Main culprit - Banks
Hand in hand work closely with developers to goreng the market.

taufufa
post Jan 14 2014, 06:20 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
163 posts

Joined: Dec 2005



Is more likely stagnant rather than burst. Gomen gave too many unpredicted surprises for the past few months. Better save some cash and see how's the market for Q2 and Q3.
whyseej00
post Jan 14 2014, 06:20 PM

Enthusiast
*****
Junior Member
731 posts

Joined: Apr 2005
From: KL, Malaysia


QUOTE(gspirit01 @ Jan 14 2014, 06:15 PM)
Bro that article is dated 2012. I just talked with my friends last weekend doh.gif
Showtime747
post Jan 14 2014, 06:28 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
4,258 posts

Joined: Nov 2012
I predict stagnant for a few months, then around 4Q 2014 / 1Q 2015 start show reduction in prices of 10%-15%. Full blown crush although nice to see, but quite difficult to achieve tongue.gif

110 Pages  1 2 3 > » Top
Topic ClosedOptions
 

Change to:
| Lo-Fi Version
0.0544sec    0.09    7 queries    GZIP Disabled
Time is now: 8th December 2025 - 06:59 PM