Will companies employ a third class degree holder.
Or it's a no value degree?

Yes, they will. Every degree/diploma/certificate has its own value. It depends how well you present yourself.

but the word above your stars read "unemployed". THE IRONY!

well, this i will not guarantee...
becoz nowadays...too many graduates are looking for jobs....
so in order to have a good advantage, at least you need to have good grades(acceptable range, not first class only, maybe like cgpa>3) then only you have a chance to be shortlisted...tat way u baru can present yourself lo
else maybe a bit hard....no chance for you to present yourself how they employ u?

I am a 3rd class degree holder. It is a better-then-nothing paper, but there are still company out there that value your degree paper. It might be a bit harder to find your first relevent job - it has took me 1 freaking long year to find my current job... felt extremely frustrated especially those bank ads all saying "2nd-class-uppder and above" really jialat.

But when you start working, make sure you learn as much as possible and after 1-2 years, you can show off your experience and skill(especially interpersonal skill) then this 3rd class maybe less an issue to you.

But i didn't go out find any other job yet, not planning to do so

TOP MNC companies look for 2nd class lower at the MINIMUM!
for instance, Shell, Intel, Maxis( internal not those helpdesk people), Hua wei would take in at the very least 2nd class lower.

but not to worry, u still have alot of choices

That's what I'm worrying.

3.0 to get in the door. the rest are all about your mad communication skills and work ethics.

my sis extended her degree in aussie for one year for flunking a lot of subjects and came back with a 3.0 cgpa in BIT. got herself shortlisted for an interview where she was asked to present some statistical data in front of the interviewers. start off at rm1.8k and 5 years later is in charge of the department she was once working in at rm5k+.

so unless you've graduated, start retaking your low GPA subjects and fix your CGPA!

I failed a double module subject in the final year and they don't allow student to retake because it's the UK university policy. Nothing I can do anymore.

put only. but I still yet to land a job as an engineer. So I'm working as a temporary worker for now.

Don't be suprise that companies could call somebody holding a Pass degree too.

I agree with that statement. It shows that you've been through approx. 13 years of education.

I still send my applications regardless there're requirements or not because you will never know whether they might look into your application. Ttherefore, trying is always a good thing. Even though they don't bother about your application, treat it as wasting 2-3 pieces of paper and a 50 cent stamp.

In fact, I'm one like you last time. they based on credit system. Either you pass or take the whole year again. So, bear with it.

1st class not necessay done best job.

sometimes just depend on how ppl do their job, how responsible they're, social, attitude...

all these dun show in the cert...

if your soft skill is a plus point even tho you have 3rd class, that would be good.

Diploma holder also can get a job nowadays...

Just don't be choosy... at least got your first job and learn as much as you can. Experience or what you can do... is much more important

Good Luck!

Well to start with a 3rd class degree is really bad. What you need to have is experience to cover the bad part and good communication skills. Last time I have 2 class higher also hard to land to a job that I like so just take the shitty job first and then leave the company once you get the chance.

What you need now is the income and the money not being picky

owww, i am like that too last time, in MMU, while i am doing industrial training, they called me that i need to go back for subpaper, and it is 2 days away... O.o so i gave up the sub paper, and ends up i hv to wait a whole damn year just to retake that paper...

This post has been edited by rexis: Jun 15 2006, 01:41 PM

i dont even have a Third Class degree....just a normal degree....and i am employed.....with quite good pay also.....

dont be discouraged.......it's the attitude that counts....not results...

I hv a degree from US. There is NO and xxx-class degree, only CGPA.
So how am i going to know which class i in? Are there any guides? Eg: 80-100 is A, 0-39 is Fail.

eyy... degree sure got class one mahh, no matter its a 'normal' degree or 'normal' 3rd class degree. Btw, mine one got 'honours' somemore. But seriously i think of all these empty degree paper are no use. Most likely an employer will hire a first class honours guy that could not do anything but complain a lot.

Yup, agreed, it's the attitude that counts. The results counts too, but not exam results, but working results

Exam results, are sh!ts IMHO. These useless numbers unable to show what is one person is truely good at, maybe co-curiculum data is more useful then a 10A student.

Thats why, these 1st, 2nd, 3rd classes are shit, for god sake my CGPA is only 0.06 away from the bloody 2nd class lower. Some university can set their 1st class CGPA requirement lower(but there should b some guidelines), some can adjust their exam results to produce enough 1st class students to make them look handsome(actually maybe all students cant even reach 50% marks, so uni marks are confidential).

CGPA is only outside thing, what is inside your head, is your real property, nobody can take it away.

those get better class is easier to get job yes, thats only apply after u graduated from uni as a freshgrad. at that time, if ur results are good, of coz its easier to get job and if u are not that good, u might have tough time, so get any job 1st, then learn and get experience after a few years they dont look at ur cert that much but ur hands-on skills. that time u can show them u pwned those 1st class. even in education, best results are not always the best teacher but some soso can teach good students...

IMO, working life is another stage in life. yes you may have a third class degree in your hands, but in the real world, character is important. the harder you work, the more places you could go. so don't feel pity for yourself in having the 3rd class degree..

I like this very much

Those employers or interviewers will obviously look into those who have high CGPA, at least second class upper. Why? This doesn't mean that they score high, they will perform well but at least they have the foundation of certain knowledges. No matter these students were memorizing or really understand what they were taught in their university life, the potential employers believed that one who's score good grade's attitude in learning is better than those who score it lower. Because in the process of learning, your result do show your attitude of learning. I believe every university has mid-term, small exam to test their students and students should within this moment knew where's the place they were weak in and then work hard on it. Maybe you scored low grade in mid-term but you worked hard all way long the semester and in final, you score satisfied result.

What employers want to see is NOT the high CGPA grades that display in front of them. There were so many applicants for job every single day and they have no choice to use this as a norm to shortlist candidates. They would not want to waste their time interviewing 1000+ of candidates which it might waste time and resources.

You might claim that candidates with high CGPA don't mean that they are elite in the corporate world. They aren't and perhaps they are winner in studies, they are loser in the real world. However, as I said, employers see that those who have higher CGPA own higher dedication. They at least work hard to score. I believe those who score high CGPA do more research than those who obtain lower. While some is watching 6pm TV drama, those students were in the library looking for pass year paper, practising again and again. I believe the lecturers provide the same tips to every of his/her students, just that sometimes it will be +/-. So, you need to have good interpersonal skill, which your friend might share it with you.

In my university life, I observed that students who usually scored good grade are those who looks very dull, kinda bookworm but a portion of that did not. They enjoy their life. You might see them playing around but who knows, he or she was studying during midnight?

Perhaps I would conclude that high CGPA students don't mean they are brilliant and can easily get a job done ( not to get a job ). Before you would like to be shortlisted, you need something to attract the potential employers, and very obvious, they looked into your results. Otherwise, you might be a very good presenter, decent speaker but you score low grade, they did not short list you and you don't have the opportunity to show your talent.

This post has been edited by jinyee80: Jun 15 2006, 06:43 PM

Yeah...somtimes exam only can test how well you can memorize the textbook and how fast you can write it out during the 2-3hours time. In fact, the double module I've failed I had gotten the third highest assignment marks in the class. I failed the subject was because I didn't have enough time to complete the questions and was a bit dizzy because of studying over night....couldn't write as fast as usual. *sigh*

to topic starter,

do you think 3rd class no value? it is still a degree... you cant do well not because of you are not hardworking... but the things that you studied didnt come out... then those who are so lucky, they will score a very good result... or your condition on the exam day not good, like headache, etc. like my case, i just finished my exam for UK uni Engineering Degree also...i realized i didnt do well.... the result not out yet... i started to be discourage... but, after talked with many people, feel lots better now... what they told me is,

You know about yourself more than anyone else

if you feel no regret on what you done, you dont have any reason to sad for.and always remember, nobody is perfect... just like a robe, if one side is long, then it will be short at the other side... um, understand this phrase?? haha... everyone of us have our own power....i started realize i was in the wrong course after my diploma...but i still continued untill today for my degree.. so, dun sad... LYN members will always be there for you..

Third class no value?? Errmm i dont think so...Personally i've known 1 of my housemates are working in SONY Bangi with a respectable position (asst warehouse manager)..He only gained 2.14 CGPA for his B. Degree..

No one helped him to get into SONY (no cabels or wat u guys called it or watever)...he just submitted his resume and waited for the interview...

During the interview even the interviewer mocked him because of his result but he managed to back it up with his 2-3yrs working experience in UNITAR, Maxis and HSBC...my fren even spoke broken english

Waited for 3 weeks for any confirmation and nearly lost hope..

Based on the paper alone, a 3rd Class is equal to nothingness.

third class is better than no class la... it is still a degree ma....

Ok, this is from my buddy, who also has a Third Class Degree Honours. What he has told me over the years sounds very true.

1. Employers will usually shortlist those who are Second Class Lower and above. Third Class Degree or General Degree are often left out. Nevertheless, it does not mean you cannot get a job. Heck, they are people sweeping the streets and still make a living. Do not think of Third Class as nothing.

2. In life, if you want to make it big, you probably cant depend too much on career. Of course, hardworking is a very positive quality and many companies would pay one person who is really hardworking to multitask, then to pay an average two person to do the same amount of job.

3. My grandpa used to say in Hokkien "How much you wear, how much you eat, how much you earn is all fated." Do not be discouraged of poor results. Make sure you can perform.

4. MOST IMPORTANT POINT, SKILLZ - How many Degree holders has the proper skills? Heck, I have classmates who cant even install Windows XP Pro when he graduated with Second Upper Honours. What does the Degree teaches us? Database design? Software analysis? Programming? Tech support? Microsoft Word even? This is also one of the many reasons, majority females who graduated in IT end up working in other fields. However, they are also very good IT-women out there, quite a few I know who are better than men.

5. NEXT IMPORTANT POINT, INTERPERSONAL SKILLZ - Believe it or not, many organization still thinks that oversea-grads and First Class grads are snobs. The management also know how to utilise manpower. To think about hiring someone First Class and hard-headed. Why not hire someone lower class Degree and bully him. This part, you gotta live with it. Because you suck at your education, you gotta make it up with hardwork. Many First Class grads usually think they are better off than other people and have poor interpersonal and social skills. Not kidding but I'm not stereotyping.

6. Since you already know you screwed up your education, then you make it up with hardwork. Like others have written, working life is a new gateway, a new life. Just like how it was before you stepped into your first day in school. It's also your LAST stage in life before you retire, so dont screw up anymore. If there is ever a time you need to work hard and get up, it's NOW!

agree!!

Are you graduated yet ?

3rd class is an Honours Degree. The lowest rank is Pass Degree which has no Honours. Anyway I seldom come across local graduates with 3rd class or pass degree, most of them are at least 2nd class lower. This is different when I was in UK since there are quite numbers of 3rd class degree holders. Looking to this scenario i think there is a difference in standard and quality of the degree awarded. Somehow our education system is getting more lenient and acquiring many A1s in SPM is like an absurd competition.

first class cgpa = 3.5-4.0
second class = 3.0-3.4
third class = 2.0-2.9
<2.0 = no degree,
is this true?

i want to ask 1 more thing, when some one had a degree, does the employer still look at his/her STPM,SPM,PMR results?

This post has been edited by woopypooky: Jun 16 2006, 10:21 AM

Pass degree holder from UK ere . I'm not proud of it nor I'm disgusted with it. At least, I know that I didn't quit half way because of my bad results. Life goes on. It's just another chapter of life

Ehhhh, you think scoring 3rd class easy ahh! Is going thru the pressure of taking sub paper and the feel of walking by the cliff is easy you say? Those who do not study do not care and not dedicated at all, will not even graduate! A university give you a 3rd class degree doesnt mean that they give you a toilet paper, this paper spells some good quality of you!

A carpenter might rate a good stainless steal kitchen knife as useless, but finds a rusty nail to be more useful. Same, a cook will have no use of a chainsaw, but make good use of a fruit knife. But we should not wait for the carpenter or cook to find you, we should find them.

Know your true value, and work on it, not wait for luck.

2nd class lower should be 2.65 n above, how can 3rd class = 2.9? I see my sis study day and night also only got 2.80, study so hard only score 3rd class?

so can tell me exactly wat CGPA range does 3rd class fall into?

Below 2.65? Like me 2.59

Katsurou,

I will be the horrible person here. I will be the tough guy. You will be asked this question and you must be prepared to answer this kind of questions.

1) How the hell did you get such a bad result??

2) Are you a full-time students??

3) Did you worked while you are going through the colleges??

4) If you as a full-time student, you cannot even handle a normal class load with a reasonable result, why makes you think you can handle a normal full-time job??

5) If you say you can be hard working, why do you get such a bad result?? It is across 4 years.

Unfortunately, you must be able to answer those questions with reasonable response.

Dreamer

P.S.: A degree is NOT everything. But, a degree with less that favorable result shows a bad track record.


This post has been edited by dreamer101: Jun 16 2006, 11:05 AM

Mine is just an Ordinary Degree(without Honours - means i have enough points to pass the degree only)......so basically my degree has no class....hehehe.....

you see, i am not even ashamed in telling people that my degree has no hounors....this is the difference.....i am confident in what i am doing, i have an optimistic thinking and a good attitude.......it doesn't matter what degree you've got....sooner or later, you'll know that it's the experience and attitude that counts....

FYI, A lot of employers do not like to hire First Class Honours students because according to them they have some sort of attitude (no offence to all the First Class Grads there)......

i am a Pass degree holder as well from England, they call it an Ordinary Degree....

i seldom see local grads with 3rd class or ordinary too....which made me felt inferior when i came back to malaysia to work......but as what goliath said, it's just another chapter of life.....

as long as u can perform well in working on the task given, should not be a problem;
u can start by looking for a position in small size company for working experience.

This is what happened to my friend who dont even have Degree at all. He only studied till Advanced Dip due to finance problems. He then worked for 2 years before going for his Degree.

He went to interview. He is confident and all my life I know he's a good talker, just poor and not much opportunity.

He said to the interviewer, sorta argued even I think cause I dont know how he say it exactly but he went on saying something like this.

"Degree wont even teach you how to trouble shoot Exchange server! If you give me an opportunity to work here, I will not disappoint you. If I do not perform to my expected pay, you dont have to pay me. I pack at the end of the month."

Because of guts, he was hired. No kidding man.

the type of statement that ur fren made will soon backfired. why u might ask? cos soon one day, ur fren will make a mistake, sooner or later..no1 is perfect...then the boss who hired him will then take to opportunity to use this statement against him...i dont think it will look nice if one gets fired...

and to say one cannot study cos financial problems and distractions, for me that are excuses...there are tons of education instutions in malaysia...and there is ptptn...and there is public universities...u might say that public uni need stpm...then why not sit for stpm? its the cheapest alternative...and then u might say cos spm not good...then one shud just look back in the past, and ask "why didnt i study and have a decent grade?"...

as for the discussion on whether or not third degree has value or not, well, its up to one's own viewpoint...well, i saved that for another time...

pls dont see this as a backlash...just my two cents...

This post has been edited by brokenomerta: Jun 16 2006, 02:35 PM

Once, I was attending the third group assessment to get a job in a MNC, my final result released. My final result was dissapointed, CGPA 2.99, a little bit close to 3.0.

It was a 4 stages job interview. I passed the earlier two, doing well in the case study and group discussion as well. Since my final result has not been released, and I was using my previous exam result to apply for a job, they called me up for an interview, the first interview. My CGPA was 2.8 that time. They told me that the job will require at least 3.0, and she asked me whether my final will get it or not. I said maybe I could or maybe I could not. She asked me to do some personality test and I got through. I was then called for second interview and move on to the third.

That was a cold morning. I woke up at 6am as the 3rd interview started on 8.30am sharp. I went there with my 'just-released' result, which is 2.99 one. The HR personnel asked me to submit my resume, photostated result and original again. Then, waiting for a while, I was called into a room, which there were 3 interviewers. They looked at my result and said how would I be sitting in front of them since my result did not even touch 3.0. I was like feeling depressed as they kept on mentioning that I will not be their cup of tea and wasting their time. I told them I will perform because results did not show everything. I was slightly near to 3.0 and I believe I have the quality that they required.

Well, during the group assessment, AGAIN, I was mentioned, I mean I was insulted again as the speaker mentioned I have the lowest CGPA around those 20 candidates.

I did not get the job. The HR people called me up and told me no matter how good you are, no matter how well you perform during the interview or how well you would be willing to show yourself out, they just don't want you to have a CGPA lower than 3.0. This is the pride of the company, they did not want others saying that they hire a nearly 3.0 person. They want people to know they absorb those high CGPA person and coach them well.

Well, I did not believe that high CGPA means high performance. But I do believe that we should treat every class as the same.

Interesting topic.... I believe it depends on yourself, how your resume can attract them, how you perform during interview and etc.

Myself....i'm a third class degree holder. But I've work in big2 company...IBM & Shell. Now in company in Menara Luxor with earning up to 3k. So I believe there still hope for 3rd class degree holder. As long as your resume looks good, u can talk english well so it should be ok when you go for interview.

My friends....same case but now he is working with securities commision. SC is not an easy place to get in but he manage to. You need to have confident during interview...

I will hire him if I am a hiring manager. I like people that actually work and pay for their own diploma/degree.

Jinyee80,

I believe you should get a decent GPA if You were a full-time student. So, what should people treat you the same??

Unless you are telling me that you were working while you are studying or you learn some IT stuff on your own why should you get a fair treatment??

Life is fair. You were not willing to work hard to get a better result and now is time for you to suffer,

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Jun 16 2006, 06:35 PM

1) He has a diploma plus two years working experience. He know how to do his job. Compare him to a fresh grads without working experience and no confidence, who do you think is a better worker??

2) Do you pay for your own degree?? Aka your family did not and could not help you financially?? Did you ever starve because you have no money to buy food?? If not, please do not say things like "to say one cannot study cos financial problems and distractions, for me that are excuses."

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Jun 16 2006, 06:50 PM

Jinyee 80,

It's not impossible for u to get work with 3rd degree....but u definately will face a lot of obstruction...

True, whatever CGPA will not guarantee you can do the job, but a high CGPA will guarantee you a good start i.e. a high likelihood of getting an interview....and shut out any barriers which may have been imposed on the CGPA requirement.

Getting a low CGPA is your own doing. Dun blame anybody but yourself. It is known that MNC's look at decent CGPA.

If you didn't know dat, den u've not been doing ur homework...

If I offended you I'm sorry, but this is a fact.

Dreamer,

One thing you don't really understand is that everyone has their own potential. You might be good in this while you might be bad on that. Okie, continue the story of mine. Those 'competitors' that earn them place during their interview with high CGPA manage to get into the MNC. Once, I saw them on the road, and said hi and asked them about the company. She said she did not pass the probation because she can't perform well in the company. She said the boss expected people with high CGPA should be able to outperform well, know many things than those who get lower. The company paid them high because they thought they will perform better .

9 of us went to interview from the 1st session. 6 managed to pass through the second interview and moved on to the third which the 3 people who scored above 3.0 were left out because they couldn't even speak fluent english. 2 people were hired in the MNC after the 4th interview. One is my friend and another one were moved to another department of customer service because he can speak but too theortical.

The world treated everyone fairly? You might get high CGPA, you worked hard in studies but that doesn't mean you knew things more than others. I worked when I was studying because my family did not has the money for me to further my study. I studied at night till dawn. Please do understand that your viewpoint might be good enough to those typical people who did not face financial problems during their studies and their job is to study and study. You dont seems to understand that some people might have different situation there. Please do consider. We are not here to insult nor console. A person that scored high in CGPA, but she did not has good interpersonal skills, she is not sociable, she lives in her own life and a person that scored lower CGPA, which she is sociable, good interpersonal skill, expose more to the working world, have more contacts. Who would you prefer if you are a manager?




Jinyee

Yes, high CGPA gives you a good start. Hey, you are not offending me, its just a created story anyway. Copyright reserved!



Jinyee

1) I got a third class degree because I failed a doublle module subject (one subject = two subjects). The reason I failed the subject because I spent too much time on doing one question. I'm a perfectionist. I can't jump into another question until I finish one. As I mentioned in my previous post my assignment score is very high in the class.

2) Full time

3) I worked only during semester breaks

4) Exam evaluation doesn't really applicabale to everyone. Working is different from studying. When I worked I know what I learn from work is useful for my job. However, what you study doesn't mean it's useful for your job. I believe for some courses you won't have the chance use up to 30-40% of what you've learned from the college or university. If you've studied so hard and don't know why are you studying for and how to use it then you're just a bookworm.

5) I can't say I'm hardworking in studying but when it comes to working I am. My previous manager (during my semester break) have a very good impression on me because of my performance.

Jinyee,

1) Obviously, you did not read my post carefully. The only exception I gave is "if you worked while you are studying". I am fair. And, I am not talking about high GPA here. 3.0 is NOT a high GPA.

2) I worked 40 hours per week while I was doing my degree. So, I do understand the difficulty of working and studying at the same time.

3) If I am the hiring manager, I will pick people that worked while doing their degree. And, that is true even if their GPA is not 3.0.

Dreamer

Katsurou,

If I am interviewing you, you will be rejected based on your response to those 5 questions.

1) It is either a 2 years or 4 years courses. And, your result is so bad that it ONLY takes only failure of one subject to put you down below 3.0. Rome is not built on one day. Your bad GPA takes more one bad exam to happen.

2) You are a full-time student. You only only one thing to do and you did a bad job.

3) So, the bottomline is you have full time to study and still get a bad result.

4) B.S. Sour grapes!! In working as in studying, there are times when things are boring but you still have to do a good job. This is called commitment. That is the difference between a good work ethic and a bad one.

Do you want to hire someone that only work hard when it is not boring?? I will not. And, so far, we are not talking about good result here. 3.0 is only fair and average and you cannot even get that.

5) I can say that you are NOT hardworking in studying. Either that or you are not very smart.

And, that is not the worse part of all. I will reject you because you have NO WORK ETHIC.

A) You do not realize that you are FULLY responsible for your GPA.

B) You do not have the stamina to do the boring stuff even if it is required for your job.

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Jun 16 2006, 08:10 PM

Dreamer,


3.0 is not a HIGH CGPA. Of course its not. The scenario I mentioned above is just a creativity of mine. No offence. In local universities, I believe if you get below 3.3, you are definately poor; but comparing with private colleges and universities, obtaining a 3.0 is consider good already. It differs from one to another.

I got your point. Low CGPA is not due to ONE failure only, which its accumulated by various failures. Anyway, what's your rational in differing HIGH CGPA and LOW CGPA? High is 4.0 - 3.8 ? or ...?



Regards,
Jinyee

Dreamer,


Obviously, you misunderstand. I mentioned CGPA in my previous post, but you kept on mentioning GPA repeatedly. What causes low CGPA? low GPA. What causes low GPA? Poor results with long credit hours. One can get 4.0 for GPA once, but 3.0 GPA for another, and if the latter one consumed more credit hours, the total CGPA will goes down, not 3.5.



Jinyee

In my opinion, good CGPA will give you a great start..

People will shortlist you for interview, consider you for higher pay etc..

That only applies when you're fresh grad..

But after that i.e >2 years, experience and inter-personality counts...

your CGPA isnt considered/worth at all..

Thus, for those who is less capable in CGPA dept, I suggest that you dont reject any offer that you got...

i remember going for an interview at an MNC, like all my other peers. to be honest, i'm not 3rd class, 2nd lower, but that place requires only the best. another MNC rejected me at the online application level too..hehe

the interviewer looked at all my grades, noticed a trend where certain subjects i do quite okay, but some other subjects, all Cs

i even did very badly in the written test for the interview.

however, i was expecting it, and i pitched forward, saying i know my strengths and i know my weaknesses. but the job scope falls within my strengths, and i have practical experience in past final year projects and industrial trainings to back up, cos in the end, practical work is what ur looking for.

furthermore, esp in this fast moving world, what u study isn't exactly applicable, and u have to start learning all over again on the job, show that u are adaptable and willing to learn. do not be afraid to show a little ambition when asked "where do u see urself in 5 years time"

good managers/interviewers would know that no point hiring smart ppl who have poor management/leadership skills, cos in the end, they'd go no where.

as for me, i turned down the MNC offer and am now in a small company for more than a year, doing something which isn't what i studied, and wasn't even asked my CGPA and its still my first job

This post has been edited by ADJ: Jun 16 2006, 09:14 PM

Erm, if u guys dont mind, I'd like to ask one more thing.
Lets say if a certain class, lets say 3rd class, generally has a certain value (certainly not any higher than a 2nd class), are they the same or does it varies depending on what kind of degree? Like between an Engineering, IT or management degree...

reason why I'm asking is tht i read thru the discussion here, thanks to those who share some experience here, just to get an idea how it is like to have a 3rd class degree and one that's higher.... but I'm not sure exactly what kind of degree u guys are talking about, IT or engineering or management . So i wonder if it applies similer regardless of what kind of degree... heh... thx

Well you see Captain Obvious, everyone has different aim in life. Things that are too good for you probably a piece of shlt to me. Get it?

1) My mistake. I should have writen CGPA instead of GPA.

2) My belief is your CGPA should be at least 3.0. Then, the next thing to look at should be which university you are graduated from.

3) What is high CGPA?? Who are you comparing to?? We are at different generation. I had worked for 20 years. In my generation of people, there are many people that worked part-time while taking full-time class load in world ranked universities at USA. The average people has a CGPA of over 3.0. The smart one has CGPA above 3.5.

Dreamer

P.S.: Do you know that with 33% of the high school graduates futher their education and getting a diploma and/or degree, Malaysia is around top 5 in the world with that ratio? So, there is a lot of people in Malaysia with either diploma and/or degree.

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Jun 16 2006, 11:54 PM

If I read your statement correctly (pardon me if I'm wrong), the ratings (1st class, 2nd Higher, 2nd Lower, 3rd Class and Pass) are the same in every department (IT, Engineering, Law, Business etc). I'm not sure about Australia's education or any other part of the world's education on this matter. Correct me if I'm wrong

Went out few hours, this post become so long already. Lazy to read.

As for my friend who I posted here, well, he knows his stuff and he is confident. Sometimes people only need an opportunity to prove themselves. If he met a pariah boss thats only there to exploit him, his nasib la.

But when he was desperate, he used his ace (though some of u think it's silly), but well it worked. Now he's team leader in Seremban and recently bought a new house in Shah Alam somemore... Not bad eh?

in a world with so much graduates with degrees now, what is a simple diploma, my fren...2 exp with 3rd class diploma against a 1st class honours degree student with a cgpa of 3.75 with no exp? sorry dude...i will have to choose the latter one...with a good head and willingness to learn, im sure the 1st class honours student will try to learn as much as possible...and ur statement to say that all fresh grads do not have confidence, pls do not generalize lar...

why not give fresh grads a chance (esp those with damn good grades)...if no1 give chance to them, then how to get exp la...remember the old saying, catch 22, u cant job without exp BUT u cant get exp without job...remember that my fren...

as for the second part, my fren, yes...i did all my studies in a local public university in msia...all rite after stpm...all under ptptn...i have a part time job...to pay for my expenses inclu cellphone bills, books etc...a full 3 years IT course in public uni will cost around rm900 per semester, my fren...and i am going to pay off my ptptpn soon...

so, dude...not everyone in this world is a 2 Small Joe...there is still ppl who earn it the hard way...

best i heard all day...hahahaa...to those who think that just having a degree is enuf, pls think again...there are like tons of ppl with degrees out there now...not one having to find a decent job...

and pls do not get me started with ppl who are satisfied with a diploma only...

i will speak in a very straight foward way...u reap what u sow...easy...every 1st class success is associated with intense studying and revision...does anyone here thinks that just anyone can get a 1st class without studying? yes, if ur name is stephen hawking!

and to say that each class deserved the same opportunity is simply nuts...if treated so, then why does ppl need to strive for 1st class for???the 1st class ppl is the one that separated the best from the rest...

yes, its a dog-eat-dog world out there...too bad if u dont want to live in there ...and to one of the forumer's question: what cgpa is high? easy...1st class honours, 3.75 and above...

and u know what is funny? it is always those who did badly such as 3rd class honours who complain and grumble about life at the bottom...did i hear any 1st class honours graduates complaining? of course not...

that my frens, is you reap what you sow...remember that...

As a manager, you hire people that can do their job. In this case, the person has 2 years experience of doing the kind of job that you want. He is proven. Why do I want to take chances on someone else which might be book smart but totally unsuitable for IT line of work??

So, between people that have potential versus people that have actual experience. You always go for people that have experience.

Catch 22 only existed for people that is not resourceful enough. For IT related type of works, a person can gain substantial experience by doing stuff beyond the normal coursework if the person is motivated enough.

Dreamer

P.S.: If you actually have first class honour from our local public university, our English standard in Malaysia must have gone a lot worse than I believe.


This post has been edited by dreamer101: Jun 17 2006, 04:24 AM

I would have told them off in the face. Dont waste my time too. It's not a matter of you want their job, you have to respect them but its mutual. Afterall, they dont own the damn thing, they work there too.

Just because your results dont look so bright does not give them the right to step all over you. Best thing you can do is protect yourself and give it to them straight, honest, direct but not harsh.

FYI, my university only takes 7 final subjects to classify the degree. Failing one double module subject already can pull down my classification greatly.

As I understood from your statement, you mean people with good results are wiling to work with boring stuff. I have one question here. Why they're so many students who can't speak fluent english? Isn't it because they think english is boring or too difficult to learn? May be you can answer that for me.

As I told you in the previous post. Working is different from studying. What you learn from working is useful for your job but not necessary from your studies. Even if parts of the working process are boring but still I'm more motivated to learn them because I know I will need to use them. However, when it comes to studying, you're only memorizing things that you might not be even using or applying them in the future.

How can you tell a person has good work ethic where he has no working experience before? People who has received a first class but never work before can you confirm to say that he/she has a very good working ethic? Compared to me who has been worked in a MNC before during my semester break and was awarded a testimonial saying that I'm a good-natured and hardworking employee.

Once again you think that studying reflects working attidude but why those earning the most money are not the ones who study the hardest in schools or colleges?

don't be sad thread starter......
.
I had a friend who has lost his honours meaning that he's wrost then 3rd class but he still able to get a good job and well paid......

Degree is nothing but a paper that only proof how well..... you perform in your years at the university or college...... but it haven't proof the truth ability of yourself yet......

All those fate and karma still lay in your own hand, which can be alter by yourself alone.........

As far as I know, Asia Pacific Institute Information Technology (UCTI) is accredited by Staffordshire University following UK standards. When our results subjected to external moderation (moderators from UK), our results always get downgraded!! O_O; Sigh

1) "Student cannot speak fluent English"

We have university with low standard. Those people should not be allow to be graduated to begin with.


2) "Working is different from studying and etc..."

Do you know why I think you have BAD work ethic?? It is actually very simple. You are arguing with me as opposed to take responsibility and face the fact that you had messed up. That is a clear sign of the lack of maturity.

Being an adult means you takes responsibility of everything you had done: correctly or not. Whining is not acceptable.

3) "those earning the most money are not the one study the hardest"

Yes. You are correct. But, we are talking about the "hardest" here. You are not even at the level of studying hard here as you have admitted yourself.

You deserved your result. So, just leave it as it is.

Dreamer

Different people, different views. We are here to learn from one another, not start a war.

If your results are poor, like a 3rd Class Degree, then you make it up with hardwork. No doubt, many fool around during their college days but there are really some of those unfortunate ones.

You reap what you sow is true. Just be prepared for things. Who knows you might get lucky. From what you read from Page 1 - 4, so many 3rd Class or General Degree holders still manage to secure a job.

Work is not all about educational achievements. It's more than that, dealing with people, social skills, hardwork, how you get along with others, and in my humble opinion - the most important two points are:
1. Problem solving skills
2. Ability to multi-task

Cannot study does not mean cannot work. Likewise, can study does not mean can work.

I know a girl who is the top student of her year throughout her life. Best of the best results, scholarships, etc. Praises from church, gives tuition, people worship her educational achievements. But bad point is she cant seem to get along with people at work no matter where she went.

There are many kinds of people, you are one type, he is another. There are many kinds of situation, he was in one that you may not ever be in. You may experience a situation in an interview where he may not understand even if he imagined it. Sometimes interview depends on luck too. Do not let poor results pull you down. Make it up to yourself by dedicating more time and effort into your work. Afterall, you will be walking this path call WORK for the next 30 or so years of your life, till you retire and wait for death to take you.

What more is there for you to look forward to if it's not work? People can sweep the floor to make a living. Since you have a 3rd Class, I guess you shouldnt be complaining about starting low. Chinese proverb "Start your way from the bottom and climb your way up."

It's never an easy task. Life was never a bed of roses. All you have to do is choose your allegiance carefully, make alliances and enemies, climb, fight, push, draw, whatever. Just try your best, no regrets is all you ever need.

This is the only advice I can give you all. I started out with it too. "It's time for you to pick up everything you've missed." All that you dont know, all that you wanted to do - the time is now.


Thank you for reading.

AFAIK, usually i see MNC and bank hiring IT and management degree will mention about "2nd class upper and above", let them get their bookworms, no matter. But engineering degree i rarely see them mentioning about what class they want, of course you score higher you get bigger change, but what i understand is engineering field more focus on what you know.

Correct me if im wrong!

This post has been edited by rexis: Jun 17 2006, 09:44 AM

hahahaha...what is wrong with being book smart anyway? last i recall, from a reality show lately, a book smart won the competition, not the street smart...being smart is easier to be experienced rather than a person who has all street smarts but cant learn from past mistakes...

based on what u are saying, when do u actually will hire a fresh grad? Never? hahhahahaa...if everyone thinks like you, i dont think any fresh grad will get job...hahahahaha...

p/s: if my english is that bad, i assume u think that ur's is great? haahhahahaa...that, my dear friend, is falsely wrong...hahahaa...this is a moderated forum, my fren...dont go shakespearen on me to show ur street cred...

dont go around dismissing ppl's cred...u ask me a question in the previous posts and i answer it...if u have the guts, why not go ahead and tell me and everyone else here what YOU have...come on...back it up...

wanna make change, start with the person in the mirror...not everyone else...

This post has been edited by brokenomerta: Jun 17 2006, 12:06 PM

cool down man

erm, my mistake i think i didnt state clearly...
I mean if comparing it in terms of value when we're finding job out there...

I mean, does a Engineering degree comparing to a IT degree for example, both of the same class, have the same value... thats what i'm asking.

if anyone can give some opinion, thanks

nothing i hate worse than self glorifying ******* in the engineering faculty of my uni who thinks they're very much smarter than the people in IT faculty. here's what: GET LOST.

Am I sound too harsh? While posting in the serious sub-forums do I have to get this piece of bullcrap so in end of the day everyone knows you are an asscracka ?

My friend received a pass degree in BEng from Sheffield University, UK. He spent 3 years studying there. Oh yeah, he got 9A1 in SPM back in 1999. Did he received piece of shite compared to you ?

FYI I graduated from Staffordshire University, UK. Yeah, I spent some years in Stafford town knowing all the people in the Stafford Guildhall too. Although this uni. is not listed under Top 15 university in the UK but it has same standard of degree awarding like other uni. We also have external examiners from other universities. I don't know about APIIT or UCTI though, but from your reply the local standards are quite low

This post has been edited by igor_is300: Jun 17 2006, 02:39 PM

For your (or everyone else for that matter) information, i do agree that local universities do have a low standard, heck, i graduated from one of the local universites, but the standards from the university does not hold on to me. I've set my own standards and targets. Am i a low quality graduate?As far as i am concern, what i am working as now, i think i am not. Can i afford to study oversea?I can't but my parents can and they would if i wanted.

Bottom line is, doesnt matter where you study, uni creds, grades is just an assisting paper (ok, so it helps, quite alot) but what counts is your ability to convey the message that you are the one.

To the topic, i partially agree that that 3rd class = no value BUT depends on what course. IT, Engineering and like wise, not necessary but when it comes to detail subjects like geology, reseach work intense subjects/positions which require precise detailing and what not, it is very important what class you got.

cheers

Actually when it comes to Research & Development (R&D) position , the employer will prefer 1st class academic results. We all know that, I think we should LOL. It doesn't mean when you got 3rd class or pass degree you cannot work right ? The bottomline is try to find a job that suit yourself eg: academic results, personality and etc. Not all jobs require 1st class degree holder

couldnt agree more with what u say...setting one own's standard is what separated the men from the boys...and errr..woman from the girls as well? hahahaa..

1st class in any universities, regardless where, will only get to the door...what do u do from there is basically on your own...that means 1st class honours will get u an interview...how do u perform from there on, its entirely up to u...

Yes, they are same.

It's the same questions given to my fren who is working in SONY right now..He only gained 2.14 like i said in my previous post

Agree...A paper doesnt mean so much..

You get the piece of bullcrap because you posted crap in the first place. LOL!

Why dont you share this early in the post, so I cant make an ass out of you. The standard of UK Staffordshire's graduate. Sigh.. and please we are here generally refering to 3rd Class from local university. I repeat what I've posted earlier.


Read "based on the paper alone". I didnt refer graduates with 3rd Class are worth nothing.


Oh please, I beg you dont mention you are from Staffordshire University. Eww..

I apologize for the disturbance.. please continue the discussion as I will not argue with that slow~mo.

ok let get this straight..

for those who says that 3rd class degree students have the same chance/opportunity with those with 2nd upper or even 1st class students... YOU'RE DEAD WRONG!!!

If you're right, then WHY the hell everyone study so hard to get 1st class degree? if 1st class degree student will just have the same opportunity with 3rd class students???

Note Im refering to fresh graduates as a context, not to those who already have working experience etc....

Are u directing at my post?
Perhaps it would have made u felt better had I use "comparing IT to Management for example"? I dont simply blurt out sentences without thinking, if u know what I put "for example" there.

I'm not glorifying anything here. I'm just looking at different market value of different courses, thats all. No need to be so hostile here

This post has been edited by Hornet: Jun 17 2006, 04:30 PM

yup, it is better to make a note because some forum-goers *here cant read, including those graduated from UK. LMAO!

edited: typo

This post has been edited by Vv.SoViEt.vV: Jun 17 2006, 04:37 PM

hahahahahaa...could'nt agree more...hahahaha...u know la..some ppl just cant read the entire context...hahahha...

This post has been edited by brokenomerta: Jun 17 2006, 04:36 PM

I am sharing my experience as a general comparison. On paper qualification, we still have lower rank than 3rd class which is a pass degree without honours. I am also comparing the scenario of the standards of the degree awarding here and overseas since I've observed there are quite a numbers of pass and 3rd class overseas graduates compared to here.

Your harsh reply concluded who you are and the level of your intelligence. Short and vague sentence can be misleading. This isn't kopitiam where you rant or whine your unfulfilled wishes.

edited

To all: Sorry for the disturbance, I am leaving as I have better things to do rather than reading some emo posts here.

This post has been edited by igor_is300: Jun 17 2006, 04:59 PM

Why do you have to mention the class that you got for your degree?

If first class, you can say you got a first class degree
If second upper, can say get second upper class
If second lower, can just say second class
If third class, just say it's an honours degree
If no third class, just say got degree loh.

If they ask more details, then can tell loh. Otherwise, if it is something you are proud off, you should mention it in your resume. If it is not something you are proud off, don't have to be so specific.

Example:
I have a third class degree
(does not look very nice on a resume)

Example2:
I have an honours degree with distinction in English.
(didn't say it's a first or third class degree but does highlight the only good point of your transcript)

There's no need to be so detail about something you are not too proud off. Highlight the items that you are proud off instead.

BTW, i do agree that in no way one can expect a 3rd class honour to be equal to a higher class honour.

But rather, the question here is that does 3rd class honour have its own value, without comparison to other higher class of course.

And I agree with normaldude, I was taught the same thing in a subj regarding applying for job. state our own strength and leave our weakness aside