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> Military Thread V10, Merry X'Mas and Happy New Year

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waja2000
post Oct 30 2013, 10:53 PM

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QUOTE(yinchet @ Oct 30 2013, 08:24 PM)
You miss the point here.
We are not asking for aegis system or paams.
We are having concern that the procurement does justified on the pricetag we are paying.
*

2 year ago news .... you should know ... support what u said
QUOTE
France wants to deliver two to four new frigates to the Greek navy and to allow the highly indebted nation to postpone payment of the €300 million ($412 million) purchase price per ship for the next five years.
Under the deal, Greece will have the option of paying up after five years, with a significant discount of €100 million, or returning them to the French navy. The “stealth” frigates are designed to avoid detection by enemy radar and are built by state-owned French defense company DCNS
i don mind pay usd 500+ million for Fremm frigate or DCNS FM400 (Fremm small version, 4000tons) all built in french. at lease getting aster and Scapl, alot more advance navy ship.

user posted image

FM400, a bit same design like our us Gowind.

This post has been edited by waja2000: Oct 30 2013, 10:57 PM
MichaelJohn
post Oct 30 2013, 11:17 PM

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U.S. Fighter Aircraft Pricing Themselves Out of the Export Market

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QUOTE
At a time when U.S. arms manufacturers are turning to overseas markets to help make up for declining sales to Pentagon, analysts warn that the high prices of American fighter jets could place U.S. firms at a competitive disadvantage.

The arrival of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter gives manufacturer Lockheed Martin Corp. an opportunity to sell the world’s most technologically advanced aircraft. But its price tag, in excess of $100 million per airplane, will make it unattainable for most non-U.S. buyers, according to new analysis by The Teal Group, a market research firm. Other perennial contenders in international competitions, Boeing’s F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and F-15 Eagle, also are becoming out of reach for many nations.

“We've jacked up the price of fighters,” says Teal Group Vice President Richard Aboulafia. “The export market’s reaction? ‘No, thank you,’” he tells industry executives at a meeting hosted by the Air Force Association, in Arlington, Va.

Although the average unit price of fighters sold internationally today is $65 million — about the cost of a Super hornet — the bulk of the export market increasingly wants F-16 prices, which is about one-third less, says Aboulafia.

Of 52 countries that buy fighters worldwide, 30 are in the $35 million to $50 million price range, he says.

American firms face a “ real issue” trying to sell higher end machines, Aboulafia says. There are currently just five F-15 users after 40 years of trying to sell it internationally, and one non-U.S. user of the Super Hornet after 15 years of competitions, he says. “That's not good.”

As the manufacturer of the F-16, Lockheed effectively owns the keys to the kingdom of export fighters, says Aboulafia. The problem is that the company is focusing its marketing efforts on the F-35 as it courts international buyers, and only a handful of countries can afford it.

“It's very telling when you go to [Lockheed’s plant in] Fort Worth, Texas, that the F-16 line is treated like the red-headed stepchild,” he says. “I don't think it's necessarily in their interest to keep it going. … But it is concerning because, in terms of the export market, the F-16 line is extremely relevant and necessary.”

The majority of buyers over the coming decades will shop for fighters in the price range of the F-16 or the Mirage 2000, made by France’s Dassault Aviation, Aboulafia says. “And that is the market that we're in danger of abandoning.”

It is estimated that only seven countries could afford the Super Hornet and another seven might be candidates for the F-35, including Singapore, Japan, Israel and South Korea.

That is a very small pool of buyers, says Aboulafia. For most countries, “a buck and a quarter isn't going to cut it,” he says, referring to the current price of the F-35. “If prices don't go down, the U.S. risks losing a considerable chunk of the world export fighter market which isn't only important from an economic standpoint, but also for strategic relations and keeping allies happy.”

The United States already riled key allies when the Air Force decided to end production of Lockheed’s F-22 air-superiority fighter at 187 airplanes, before it could be sold internationally. “It is bad enough we killed the F-22 before satisfying Japan and Australia," Aboulafia says. The F-35 is now the only high-end fighter in a position to compete for a small number of wealthy nations’ business, he adds. “Having a one-size-fits-all $100 million fighter is just as dangerous in a lot of ways. The market might not grow to pay that price.”

A shrinking pool of buyers is simply the result of global economic trends.

A group of countries that used to buy lower end fighters bifurcated into haves and have nots. The haves, such as South Korea, moved up into the F-15 or F-35 market. The majority of the have-not countries — including Kenya, Bolivia and Argentina — no longer buy anything except used planes, says Aboulafia. “The market either migrated up or down.”

This puts the United States in a tough spot trying to compete in the developing world as U.S. manufacturers struggle to keep their production lines going. “The last F-15 gets delivered in 2018 or 2019 to Saudi Arabia. … The last F/A-18 E/F exports deliver in 2015 or 2016 unless we win Brazil or Kuwait,” says Aboulafia. Current orders for F-16s would extend production until 2017. “This is worrying.”

The biggest pot of future fighter business, which he calls the "undetermined" sector of the market, is in developing countries that demand lower prices and more technology transfer. “If you want to survive in the fighter market and you're not Lockheed or [Russian manufacturer] Sukhoi, this is what you have to access before the next decade.”

The United States blew a major opportunity in India last year, where Lockheed and Boeing lost to Dassault’s Rafale, he says. “It's pretty clear we did a bad job of promoting U.S. products and make sure that everybody in Treasury, State and Defense were on the same page in terms of technology transfer and offset issues.”

U.S. firms should worry about Sukhoi’s T-50 fighter, he says. “Russia fell from grace, but they've done a good job reinventing their industries,” Aboulafia says. “The T-50 looks real to me, although it's going to happen slower than expected.”

There are only four remaining fighter competitions — in Brazil, Malaysia, Kuwait and Qatar — where the F-35 is not participating and the stakes are huge for the F/A-18, F-15 and F-16, he says. For U.S. industry, winning these deals could be a matter of survival, he says. “If you want more than one fighter line, you have to start accessing the undetermined market. ... That is why it was such a disaster when the F/A-18 lost India.”

That Lockheed has kept the F-16 line going on exports alone is "extraordinary,” he says. Nearly 4,600 have been sold since 1970. “The F/A-18 is not going to have this future if the U.S. Navy stops buying them. It doesn't enjoy a decade thriving on exports.” The Super Hornet is “good value for money, but it's not in a sweet spot. It's not really high end, and not really 'great' value like the F-16 is.”

Lockheed Martin spokesman Ken Ross says the company does not see the F-35 limiting its opportunities in the international market. The F-35 and the F-16 are “complementary” products, he says. The F-35 is for those countries that are looking ahead to the “next level of capability,” Ross says. “We provide options.”


Any comments on this matter? hmm.gif
Phillip_x
post Oct 30 2013, 11:21 PM

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QUOTE(MichaelJohn @ Oct 30 2013, 11:17 PM)
U.S. Fighter Aircraft Pricing Themselves Out of the Export Market

user posted image
Any comments on this matter?  hmm.gif
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In depth Investigative Journalism by 4 Corners Australian Broadcasting Corporation on the F-35 JSF..... 18TH FEBRUARY 2013

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/201.../18/3690317.htm

This post has been edited by Phillip_x: Oct 30 2013, 11:27 PM
hafizushi
post Oct 30 2013, 11:44 PM

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QUOTE(MichaelJohn @ Oct 30 2013, 11:17 PM)
U.S. Fighter Aircraft Pricing Themselves Out of the Export Market

user posted image
Any comments on this matter?  hmm.gif
*
i would love for us to take a look at su35, the western aircraft indeed exprnsive especially from europe.


HangPC2
post Oct 31 2013, 01:18 AM

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yang penting ada CIWS atau SeaRAM (SHERaaaaaaaaaaaam) ......




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TSyinchet
post Oct 31 2013, 01:49 AM

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QUOTE(waja2000 @ Oct 30 2013, 10:53 PM)
2 year ago news .... you should know ... support what u said
i don mind pay usd 500+ million for Fremm frigate or DCNS FM400 (Fremm small version, 4000tons) all built in french. at lease getting aster and Scapl, alot more advance navy ship.

user posted image

FM400, a bit same design like our us Gowind.
*
Can we get such price?
I doubt so.
We also insist on building the ship locally.
So expect higher markup on certain equipement.
Besides it is not entirely new design so it will be lots cheaper for design cost.

I would prefer meko csl anytime but the cost wont be cheaps. It will be lots expensive then our current sgpv.
thpace
post Oct 31 2013, 02:13 AM

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QUOTE(HangPC2 @ Oct 31 2013, 01:18 AM)
yang penting ada CIWS atau SeaRAM (SHERaaaaaaaaaaaam) ......
user posted image
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this is like better than aegis destroyer already laugh.gif
waja2000
post Oct 31 2013, 10:20 AM

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QUOTE(yinchet @ Oct 31 2013, 01:49 AM)
Can we get such price?
I doubt so.
We also insist on building the ship locally.
So expect higher markup on certain equipement.
Besides it is not entirely new design so it will be lots cheaper for design cost.

I would prefer meko csl anytime but the cost wont be cheaps. It will be lots expensive then our current sgpv.
*
yes, i also like meko CLS, 40+ knots speed ....
but price = fremm, around usd 550~650 million.

KYPMbangi
post Oct 31 2013, 12:52 PM

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China, Malaysia To Hold Joint Military Drills
_________________________________________________________________________________

user posted image
The Nimitz-class aircraft carrier USS George Washington (CVN 73), top, is seen underway with the Royal Malaysian
Navy frigates RMN Jebat (FF 29) and RMN Lekiu (FF 30) during a transit of the Andaman Sea in 2012.


QUOTE
KUALA LUMPUR — China and Malaysia will hold their first-ever joint military exercises next year, the
Southeast Asian nation’s defense minister said Wednesday, despite their rival claims to the tense
South China Sea.

The announcement by Hishammuddin Hussein, who is in Beijing to meet Chinese military leaders, follows
a visit to Kuala Lumpur earlier this month by China’s President Xi Jinping, in which the two countries pledged closer ties.

“Malaysia and China are expected to launch our first joint exercise in 2014 after the Memorandum of
Understanding on Defence Cooperation was signed in 2005,” Hishammuddin said in a statement sent to AFP.

The statement gave no details on the planned drills such as their location, scale, or which military branches would be involved.

A Malaysian defense ministry official confirmed they would be the first-ever drills between the two countries’ armed forces.

Hishammuddin, who met his counterpart Gen. Chang Wanquan in China, also said he invited Chang to visit the
Malaysian naval base of Mawilla 2 in the South China Sea on the island of Borneo.

The visit would be aimed at launching a “direct-contact” relationship with China’s fleet in the South China Sea.

The resource-rich waterway has become a potential military flashpoint in recent years as Beijing has pressed its claim to nearly all of it.

Malaysia, Brunei, the Philippines, Vietnam and Taiwan also have various claims — some overlapping — to the sea,
a vital thoroughfare for world trade and shipping traffic.

The 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN), of which Malaysia, Brunei, the Philippines and Vietnam
are members, has sought to present a united front against China.

It was not immediately clear how Malaysia’s warming defense ties with China would be received in other ASEAN capitals.

While the Philippines and Vietnam have been involved in tense confrontations with China over the issue, Malaysia has sought
to keep a lower profile in the dispute.

In recent years, China has become Malaysia’s top export market and a vital trade buffer against the world economic volatility,
and their commerce and overall relationship has strengthened.

Xi’s visits to Indonesia and Malaysia and his attendance at a regional summit in Bali took on added significance after President
Barack Obama canceled his own plans to visit due to the recent US government shutdown.

The episode symbolically highlighted the two giants’ rivalry for influence in the Asia-Pacific and raised questions over Washington’s
promise to refocus its attention on the region.

China agreed this year to discuss with ASEAN an eventual binding set of rules to prevent accidental conflict at sea, but analysts say
Beijing will never give up its territorial claims and they predict maritime tensions will continue to simmer.
DefenceNews



Ini jenis salam depan, belakang ada simpan pisau ke whistling.gif whistling.gif

This post has been edited by KYPMbangi: Oct 31 2013, 12:59 PM
HangPC2
post Oct 31 2013, 12:55 PM

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QUOTE(KYPMbangi @ Oct 31 2013, 12:52 PM)
China, Malaysia To Hold Joint Military Drills
_________________________________________________________________________________

user posted image
The Nimitz-class aircraft carrier USS George Washington (CVN 73), top, is seen underway with the Royal Malaysian
Navy frigates RMN Jebat (FF 29) and RMN Lekiu (FF 30) during a transit of the Andaman Sea in 2012.

Ini jenis salam depan, belakang ada simpan pisau ke  whistling.gif  whistling.gif
*
laugh.gif whistling.gif wink.gif
thpace
post Oct 31 2013, 01:00 PM

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QUOTE(KYPMbangi @ Oct 31 2013, 12:52 PM)
China, Malaysia To Hold Joint Military Drills
_________________________________________________________________________________

user posted image
The Nimitz-class aircraft carrier USS George Washington (CVN 73), top, is seen underway with the Royal Malaysian
Navy frigates RMN Jebat (FF 29) and RMN Lekiu (FF 30) during a transit of the Andaman Sea in 2012.

Ini jenis salam depan, belakang ada simpan pisau ke  whistling.gif  whistling.gif
*
biasa lah...

buat wayang depan, belakang asah pisau tajam tajam sweat.gif

Then again, malaysia ni suka keep low profile. Tak macam pinoy dan indon. Buat bising sana sini
hafizushi
post Oct 31 2013, 01:38 PM

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QUOTE(KYPMbangi @ Oct 31 2013, 12:52 PM)
China, Malaysia To Hold Joint Military Drills
_________________________________________________________________________________

user posted image
The Nimitz-class aircraft carrier USS George Washington (CVN 73), top, is seen underway with the Royal Malaysian
Navy frigates RMN Jebat (FF 29) and RMN Lekiu (FF 30) during a transit of the Andaman Sea in 2012.

DefenceNews
Ini jenis salam depan, belakang ada simpan pisau ke  whistling.gif  whistling.gif
*
is it china want to gain an allies in SEA? since they cannot afford to fight all SEA nation altogether.

vietnam, phillipines, indo all hv some argument with them while the singapore are US close allied in SEA

Tirek
post Oct 31 2013, 02:37 PM

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QUOTE(hafizushi @ Oct 31 2013, 01:38 PM)
is it china want to gain an allies in SEA? since they cannot afford to fight all SEA nation altogether.

vietnam, phillipines, indo all hv some argument with them while the singapore are US close allied in SEA
*
sorry i'm new here
want to know what kind of argument indon have with china as from what i read before, indon has quite close ties with china military relationship recently....?


lulz
post Oct 31 2013, 02:59 PM

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Indon got those natuna islands which i think is close/in the area china wanna claim.
zimhibikie
post Oct 31 2013, 03:05 PM

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QUOTE(Tirek @ Oct 31 2013, 02:37 PM)
sorry i'm new here
want to know what kind of argument indon have with china as from what i read before, indon has quite close ties with china military relationship recently....?
*
QUOTE(lulz @ Oct 31 2013, 02:59 PM)
Indon got those natuna islands which i think is close/in the area china wanna claim.
*
China also claim Natuna as theirs?

we dun have to worry about China, coz we have SGPVs, Songlap-Generating Patrol Vessels..
Tirek
post Oct 31 2013, 03:10 PM

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QUOTE(lulz @ Oct 31 2013, 02:59 PM)
Indon got those natuna islands which i think is close/in the area china wanna claim.
*
QUOTE(zimhibikie @ Oct 31 2013, 03:05 PM)
China also claim Natuna as theirs?

we dun have to worry about China, coz we have SGPVs, Songlap-Generating Patrol  Vessels..
*
hahahaaha yeah lor i forgot about that
thanks for the info
Phillip_x
post Oct 31 2013, 03:50 PM

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Indonesia’s South China Sea Dilemma: Between Neutrality and Self-Interest

BY :- Ristian Atriandi Supriyanto ( a research analyst in the Maritime Security Programme at the S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies, Nanyang Technological University, Singapore. He was previously a researcher at the Centre for East Asian Cooperation Studies (CEACoS), University of Indonesia).

http://www.rsis.edu.sg/publications/Perspe...RSIS1262012.pdf

This post has been edited by Phillip_x: Oct 31 2013, 03:51 PM
usernameINVALID
post Oct 31 2013, 03:55 PM

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QUOTE(KYPMbangi @ Oct 31 2013, 12:52 PM)
China, Malaysia To Hold Joint Military Drills
_________________________________________________________________________________

user posted image
The Nimitz-class aircraft carrier USS George Washington (CVN 73), top, is seen underway with the Royal Malaysian
Navy frigates RMN Jebat (FF 29) and RMN Lekiu (FF 30) during a transit of the Andaman Sea in 2012.


Ini jenis salam depan, belakang ada simpan pisau ke  whistling.gif  whistling.gif
*
a nice way to gauge another nation's military service
TSyinchet
post Oct 31 2013, 03:55 PM

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So from what i heard,
The navy could streamline most of its SAMs to vls-mica m.
Lekiu class, kedah class could be using mica in the future.
I think ma have write about mica b4.
pcboss00
post Oct 31 2013, 03:57 PM

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QUOTE(zimhibikie @ Oct 31 2013, 03:05 PM)
China also claim Natuna as theirs?

we dun have to worry about China, coz we have SGPVs, Songlap-Generating Patrol  Vessels..
*
actually some sea area in NE natuna overlapped with china claim area.

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