lol i don't eat subway everyday. I just eat anything that has carbs/protein/fats like nasi lemak, nasi ayam, nasi campur bla bla. IIFYM yo.

Hahaha I don't care if the volume is too high or too low. I do it for the gainz. You sound like a broscience kinda dude where you research this and that without experiment it yourself.

I don't trust that site either. 3d delt oh you are not natty, photoshop physique oh you are not natty. Lol come on 

Too many people blaming they reached their "genetic limit" before they even give out their 100% to both training and diet. C'mon guys, lift people up instead of putting people down.

Great progress fas!

Since you ran PHAT, i have a question. A while bek I was doing research on volume and heard that PHAT's volume is too high for naturals, do you find this true?

Me too. I'm the kind of people who need hard proof facts and that website lacks on it. The chart is just a mere dribbles IMO.
I did PHAT a while back and I did it as per, no volume reduction,  fasted training. All good. A friend of mine tag along for the Leg Hypertrophy and he puked afterwards.

IIRC,  Dan tried it as well.

Nvm, after 2 years of lifting heavy sh!t. I've been approach by numerous of people asking me whether I'm on roids or not. LOL this week only I've been approach by 4 guys (diff gym) I'm used to that already. 



Tbh, I never really care or bother about my stats. I just eat, lift sleep repeat and use mirror and picture to see my progress.
Never satisfy. Goodnight 

Read it at a few sites and opinions of people at BB forum. I can't experiment it myself since I am a beginner. Anyway I always kindda doubted that the volume is "too much" that's why ask your opinion.

I also practice IIFYM, just that if I eat nasi lemak, nasi campur all that I scared underestimate calories and gain extra fat, somehow bothers me in my mind if the rice is 150g or 170g or 180g... lolz.
I'm like 57kg 12% bf rather lean bulk accurately scared to fuck this up by playing around.

Me too. I'm the kind of people who need hard proof facts and that website lacks on it. The chart is just a mere dribbles IMO.

Btw, great achievement you got there.  Prolly should try advance training for your next routine.
+1. They worried about everything without having even covered the basics properly.
I did PHAT a while back and I did it as per, no volume reduction,  fasted training. All good. A friend of mine tag along for the Leg Hypertrophy and he puked afterwards.

IIRC,  Dan tried it as well.

well, have to see your numbers in your lift.

you cant be lifting sissy weight and get that huge.

Read it at a few sites and opinions of people at BB forum. I can't experiment it myself since I am a beginner. Anyway I always kindda doubted that the volume is "too much" that's why ask your opinion.

I also practice IIFYM, just that if I eat nasi lemak, nasi campur all that I scared underestimate calories and gain extra fat, somehow bothers me in my mind if the rice is 150g or 170g or 180g... lolz.
I'm like 57kg 12% bf rather lean bulk accurately scared to fuck this up by playing around.

Get the basic right first. Doesn't mater which program you follow, progressive overload is the key
Why are you scare to gain that extra fat? You're skinny. Just like me 2 years back. All i do is eat eat eat. Fitness is about flexibility, you don't have to make things complicated. If you like bro split, do it. If you like 5x5, do it. As long as you consistently lifting week in week out, you'll gain. 
Now focusing on P/P/L twice a week for let say until the end of this year. LOL enjoying this program so far!
Gain tons of strength during my 12 weeks PHAT training.
DB row 50kg x 8
Bb Bench 140kg x 2 (that was last year, i focus more on dumbbell now since i can contract my chest better)
DB bench 45kg each x 6
Deadlift 170kg (last year, just started deadlift back last month. Aiming for 200kg soon)
Squat 140kg x 2 (during phat, can push more but i train alone these day)
Weighted pull up 25kg x 10
Weighted dip 25kg x 15

DB row 50kg x 8
Bb Bench 140kg x 2 (that was last year, i focus more on dumbbell now since i can contract my chest better)
DB bench 45kg each x 6
Deadlift 170kg (last year, just started deadlift back last month. Aiming for 200kg soon)
Squat 140kg x 2 (during phat, can push more but i train alone these day)
Weighted pull up 25kg x 10
Weighted dip 25kg x 15

Get the basic right first. Doesn't mater which program you follow, progressive overload is the key.

Why are you scare to gain that extra fat? You're skinny. Just like me 2 years back. All i do is eat eat eat. Fitness is about flexibility, you don't have to make things complicated. If you like bro split, do it. If you like 5x5, do it. As long as you consistently lifting week in week out, you'll gain.

I'm gaining 1kg per month, think it's pretty decent. I'm running a 2 day split and making progress from workout to workout for 2 months now. It's just that I like to research/discuss complicated shit like ideal volume that I'll never use anytime soon due to interest in the field.

The only pain in the ass I face is weighing and eating all my food to make sure I hit my daily calorie goal +-50cals to make sure I gain exactly 1kg/month, not more not less. Naturally I am an under eater, so if I dun weigh and track all my food, I'll under-eat and make no gains. On the other extreme, if i keep stuffing myself, I fear I end up gaining 3kg on some months and end up 20%+ bodyfat too soon....

So I have to pack my 2 afternoon meals if I leave my house. Sometimes I do eat out like some burgers at McDonald (they write the cals on the packet) and sometimes I just save 900cals before a binge like company dinner during CNY. I wonder if eye-balling some of your meals on a dailyeee basics and still making gains is a skill that comes after 2 years of training?

lol you did too much research. Like i said, fitness & diet is about flexibility. Nuff said

Ahhh... I'm just the guy who thinks too much and reads too much always. Cant deny this.

Anyway still making maximum gains so doesnt matter.

Think, But Don't Over-Analyze

When you are enthusiastic about bodybuilding, or any sport or hobby for that matter, you want to know everything you can about it. You want to know what's the best exercise, what rep range will give you an edge, how to best structure your split so that you eek out every gain that you can. This thirst for knowledge is a healthy one - and is a sign that you are thinking, that you care.

But it can also hold you back. With the wealth of information available, especially in the internet age, it's all too easy to get caught up in the minutia, to start wondering if this or that exercise will pack on the size better, whether XX supplement will be the difference between success and failure. The next thing you know, you're spending too much on supplements, switching up your routine every other week to use that new magic routine you read about, or getting discouraged over results that don't seem up to par with the promises of the muscle mags.

The 80/20 Rule

Dr. Joseph Juran, working on quality and management principles in the 1930's and 1940's observed a universal principle that he called the "vital few and trivial many", in which 20 percent of something is responsible for 80 percent of the results. This became known as the Pareto Principle, or the 80/20 rule. This rule means that in anything 20% is vital and 80% is trivial. For example, Juran observed that 20% of the people owned 80% of the wealth. Or that 20% of defects caused 80% of the problems. You can apply this rule to almost anything.

The value of the 80/20 rule is that it reminds you to focus on the 20% that matters. You should identify and focus on these things. So in bodybuilding, what are they? I would say that the 20% that matters includes:
Researching & following a good, fundamental, bodybuilding program. (Not a perfect one, it doesn't exist).
Putting in hard work in the gym, consistently, over a long period of time.
Following the rule of progression, and ensure that over time you are lifting more weight, more reps, or more sets.
Having good nutrition. Eating enough good stuff, and not too much bad stuff over the course of a day.
Getting adequate recovery.
Adjusting your plan periodically, based on your results and your experiences.
Which basically means: Train. Eat. Rest. Repeat. Week in and week out. Focusing on the basics will give you 80% of your results.


So if that's the important 20%, what's the 80% that's trivial? Well in my opinion it's details like these:
Should I do 3 sets of 8 reps or 5 sets of 10 reps?
What's better, 1.25g protein per pound or 1.37g/lb, or 1.5 g/lb.?
I'm doing BB curls, should I be doing DB curls or EZ bar curls instead?
What's the best angle for incline barbell presses?
If I don't get 30g of protein within half an hour after training, is my session wasted?
How much should I be lifting for my height / weight?
Are DB flyes better than using the Pec Dec?

Etc. Etc. Etc. Honestly, that stuff doesn't make a difference. Or rather, if it does it makes a relatively small difference (20%); or only makes a difference for a relatively small few who are at the limits of their physical development. For most of us average Joes, it just doesn't matter! Sure, if you have a wrist issue, EZ curls may bump into that 20% of things that matter, but in general it doesn't make that much of a difference.

The muscle mags would like to convince you different, since they want you to continuously tune in to find out if you're doing everything right. If you're "in the know" about the latest "hollywood workout". Whether you're missing a miracle supplement that just got invented in a secret Swiss lab.

That way lies madness, my friends.


Objective Evidence

So how do we know this is true? Well, first of all look at the wide variety of workout programs, splits, exercise selection, training frequency, and equipment recommendations from various top bodybuilders over the years. Do they all agree? No. Do they recommend all the same things? Don't think so. Do they all train the same way? Nope. But it's not the 20% they disagree on, it's the 80%. Which stands to reason, since the 80% only makes a small difference, and most of that is individual anyway. What's right for one person is not always right for another.

But they all agree on the value of the big, compound movements. They all preach eating enough, eating right, getting enough protein, and having intensity in the gym. They all agree that results take hard work and consistency and a balanced workout routine. They agree on the 20%.

As further evidence that sometimes the small things don't matter: how often have you seen some dipstick in the gym using terrible form doing nothing but crappy curls and yet having jacked arms? It happens. Sure, he might get injured periodically. Sure, he might have no calves. But when it comes to those arms, he's doing at least 20% of things right.


Final Thoughts (Cliffs)

So what do you take away from all that? It's simple: do your homework and spend your time and effort on the 20% of the details that matter - that's Thinking. Don't waste your time sweating the 80% of the trivial details that make little or no difference - that's over-analyzing.

I don't pretend to have all the answers, and you should figure out what those "20%" things are for yourself by reading and thinking. But once you do, focus on that and don't let the "80%" of minutia derail you from what really matters.

Get the basic right first. Doesn't mater which program you follow, progressive overload is the key.

Why are you scare to gain that extra fat? You're skinny. Just like me 2 years back. All i do is eat eat eat. Fitness is about flexibility, you don't have to make things complicated. If you like bro split, do it. If you like 5x5, do it. As long as you consistently lifting week in week out, you'll gain. 
Now focusing on P/P/L twice a week for let say until the end of this year. LOL enjoying this program so far!
Gain tons of strength during my 12 weeks PHAT training.
DB row 50kg x 8
Bb Bench 140kg x 2 (that was last year, i focus more on dumbbell now since i can contract my chest better)
DB bench 45kg each x 6
Deadlift 170kg (last year, just started deadlift back last month. Aiming for 200kg soon)
Squat 140kg x 2 (during phat, can push more but i train alone these day)
Weighted pull up 25kg x 10
Weighted dip 25kg x 15

i saw a vid from you on 2014 may, you were benching dumbbell 40kg each side for 4 reps..and now youre bb benching 140kg for 2 reps.
thats impressive for 10months natty gains

i think you might have read it wrong... his 40kg each side is Dumbbell bench..And now his Dumbbell bench is 45kg, not 140kg.... 140kg is for his Barbell bench

i can easily press 45kg, i wish i can press 140kg too

if u're saying that you can EASILY press 45kg DUMBBELL each side, then good for you.

hope that you're not saying barbell benching 45kg.