It is not the university's fabricated statistics like you've (baselessly) claimed, but rather a centralised mandatory survey imposed upon graduates, conducted by the Ministry of Higher Education, which is then submitted to the Ministry of Human Resources. every fresh graduate MUST answer the survey otherwise they will never receive their official scroll and academic transcript. There's no way any university could intervene to falsify the data.

And here, obviously you still want to defend your baseless, weakly-founded, ill-informed "benang basah". If you don't even trust the information from those Ministries, then conduct your own survey, if you ever can.

Obviously you have "googled a lot" to the extent that you are relying only on few blog articles. It's rather easy even for any 15-year-old to say without any data that "there are thousands of graduates from that Sipolan-Sipolan University don't get any job". But, who will ever trust your words then? Even right now, you are answering just for the sake of answering and frankly speaking, you are now talking even more nonsense.

To criticise or to discredit people (or institutions) is easy, but it is the data that count. At least it's much more reliable than those blog articles you have been relying to. Of course I can choose (like you) to listen to myriad stories of this and that bla bla bla... but then, how true is true? Furthermore, do the problems face UiTM graduates only? Can you ever guarantee that everything is OK in the other institutions?

Of course, that figure of 3,000 jobless UiTM graduates is rather large whatever the percentage is. But to be fair, and for your argument to be worthwhile, you should compare those 3,000 to a total of 30,000 graduates leaving UiTM every year. Why are some quarters too afraid to admit the fact that the other 27,000 or 90% have managed to either land a job or further study?

And yes, UiTM (and each other institutions on earth) is not (and never) without weaknesses. Research and postgraduate programmes are still new to UiTM compared to other universities. Logically, what much could we expect from a former vocational-technical institute that was elevated to a university just 8 years ago? but at least, UiTM did it. They managed to produce marketable graduates. Given a rather challenging job market nowadays, it has never been easy for any univesity to achieve 90% graduate employment, but UiTM did it.

This post has been edited by average.joe: Sep 17 2007, 05:13 AM

Are you sure the survey is true? Based on the real job? Or only working in their parents shop .. and sell ice cream or perhaps as a guard(Yes, I mean it .. don't worry, it's related to mass comm, perhaps?) .. do you still consider it's a job that related to the survey? and the most important thing, on my last graduation, I with my other friends just put working in the survey even that we are jobless, is it still consider a truely true survey? or because it's Ministry conduct the survey, we should see it as a truely 100% survey? La la la la ....


P/s: It's good to give the fact and debate in the blog, yes, it's not an official one, but it still considered one of the most good blog/debatable/hot/racist in education (No no, I didn't lie .. someone should check the rating they have nowadays) .. owh no ...


* I don't know why should I involved in this thread ..

This post has been edited by Irzani: Sep 17 2007, 09:47 PM

In return, ARE you even sure those blogs you have been reading and believing are at least partly true that you trust them more than you do trust official data? While some of them might be partly true, the rest are downright 15-year-old after-school talks.

What real job? What menial job? No job is too menial if one really wants to learn. I have seen so many graduates form other universities also working in their parents' shops, selling cakes and ice-cream, tapping their grandfather's rubber plantations, teaching PMR/SPM tuitions, and myriad of other jobs one can ever think of, not only those from UiTM. Unless if you are here with some derogatory agenda, I don't see any reason why should you raise this particular "menial jobs" issue since this is not exclusive to (some) UiTM and IPTA graduates only but also to other graduates.

Just because they are working out of their academic discipline, I does not mean they are not good. Have you ever heard of Synergy Farm Sdn. Bhd. agriculture franchise in Penang? I know its banana plantation in Seberang Prai at which most of the participants are engineering graduates. Nowadays that their first harvest is already out plus many other side-crops they have been working hard on, they are already earning as good as, if not better than, those engineers in average private companies.

Your comments showed how narrow-minded you are. (sorry for bombarding you with strong words again but this time I really think I have to!) No wonder so many fresh graduates nowadays prefer to stay at home all the times "menghabiskan beras mak bapak" rather than at least doing something that earns, just because they can't land their dream jobs. Why? Because they share your mentality. Lazy, yet picky!

I did NEVER say that those official surveys are 100% true, but at least they are MUCH more reliable than those half-truths-plus-some-downright-lies blogs you have been relying on for your information and stand. There is no such 100% accurate thing in this age of information, but at least I can prefer the more reliable ones.

Do you think the govt can't check with the EPF, Registry of Business, the Jabatan Tenaga Rakyat and the likes? Like what I've said before, if you are too skeptical of those official data, then go and conduct your own "accurate", "true" and "professional" survey and share it with us! Nah, this is my challenge for you.

"I don't know why should I involved in this thread." -- Look, you aren't even sure of what do you actually want from (and what do you wish to share in) this thread. Frankly speaking, I can conclude this in only one word - silly. And you clearly said that you were jobless during your graduation, any good idea why did it take noticeably long for you to land your first job? Do ask yourself. And you lied in the survey, stating that you were already working. Is this what you learnt during your 3-4 years at the university - to tell lies? Worse still, you think the other graduates are all liars like you. My goodness!

p/s: "againts"? "most good"? ROFL... no wonder you were unemployed then. Watch your language!

This post has been edited by average.joe: Sep 18 2007, 08:17 AM

-Deleted on advice from another good forummer -

Have fun .... Mr Nonsense ..

This post has been edited by Irzani: Sep 18 2007, 08:08 PM

Why delete? Is it on advice from a good forum member (not "forummer"), or on fear of more counter-points from me if I ever came across your reply?

Who's that Mr. Nonsense? I guess it's you yourself.

You can't even spell some common words properly. You'd better off spending some time to improve your English grammar rather than putting your pride into a gamble in serious topics like this. Save your time, save your pride.

This post has been edited by average.joe: Sep 20 2007, 07:27 AM

Oh come on, it is obvious that it is a typing error. Dont be harsh.

This post has been edited by jasperng: Sep 20 2007, 03:06 PM

Typing error? If you ever read his/her replies in this thread, he/she has been spelling "againts" instead of "against" all the time. Is it a typing error after all?

Nevertheless, part of the blame goes to me, too. I did admit that my first reply to his/her question was a bit too strongly-worded for him/her to accept but at least I apologised and made my points clear then. However, he/she had clearly started trolling after that, thus deserving my bullets.

This post has been edited by average.joe: Sep 20 2007, 04:47 PM

People say JPA is biased when judging which application to approve. I do not wish to raise any sensitive issue here, but I believe other than judging your results and your ability, they judge by your descent too. My friend is a superb student with 13A1s and she can't get an offer for JPA scholarship. She truly deserves the shcolarship and I believe by getting the scholarship it can help to reduce the burden of her parents.(She's not super rich). You know what I mean. As a result, people with less ability get the scholarship. This is what causes the brain drain and I think we can forget bout 2020. Government, pls wake up. Please stop favoring.

---

Added on September 21, 2007, 12:28 pmOne thing I would like to discuss about is related to the unfairness which prevails in the SPM marking.
Not to show off here, I achieved 10As in spm and I took 11subjects.
What I didn't get A for. Chinese.
My school is a Chinese School and I'm not trying to blow my own trumpet here, I would definitely score a decent grade in my Chinese. If not a decent one,at least a grade which is on par with other grades I achieved in other subjects. In a disappointing manner, I have a lot of friends which obtained very good grades in every subejct but Chinese, a subject which non-muslim students take. I dare to say that I have at least 10 friends who obtain all As in the subjects ,for the exception of Chinese. Basically, we are a chinese school, we learn chinese everyday and it's impossible to find out that we can't do well in SPM chinese. What crap is that to say? People from Chinese schools can't score an A in SPM!? But manage to score As in other subjects".I too have a person whom I know, scored all A1s in his subject but A2 in Chinese. So what's happening? Is our Chinese Language skills aren't adequate to cope with the exam requirement or What? definitely, I dare say, no.
So what I am trying to highlight is the unfainess of the SPM examination. A similar trend is also happening in the Moral Subject, a subject taken by non-muslims. Trying to be frank, it's apparent that the government is trying to reduce the no. of As among non-muslims students through subjects taken by non-muslims, i.e. Chinese and Moral Studies. This is done by adjusting the results graphs, like how my experienced teachers explain, which I deeply believe it's not a myth. It is very sad to see this happening as this will greatly reduce the oppurtunity of these students of applying for the JPA scholarship. Sigh.We don't want to be given the best entitlements, nor do we want to be treated like a king or queen.We are sick of all these unjust policies for years. All we want - equal rights.

This post has been edited by K-I-R-A: Sep 21 2007, 12:50 PM

malaysia government is all about to show that they can produce excellent student...the same case goes for SBP, i met my father's friend once and he ask my father to send us to SBP as there are different marking system for SBP.the A grade for SBP is lower than other school so that there will be more student from SBP can get excellent grade.btw, im not SBP student

the whole L*N, M**E accreditation thing is all about M***y issue lah. sorry for typing like this....because of sensitive issue... if you study this whole accreditation process.... you will understand why i say like this...

sorry to those who are offended by this statement

This post has been edited by seisuichai: Oct 15 2007, 12:27 AM

i'm offended by the fact that u type like that assuming others are stupid. if u wanna say something, say it out loud. LAN and MoHE is never about the malays. u're confusing one thing with something else. get ur facts right before u start blabbering nonsense! i've been personally involved in LAN accreditation process, i can tell u by first hand experience. lets compare that with whatever "facts" u have, shall we?

hey bro....i never said anything about the malays. it was never intended to offend any malays... u are just assuming i am saying it as for the malays because its a government sector. i dun care who is working in there, chinese, malays, indians....

tell me...what is the real purpose of accreditation? i am a student started my college days since 1998. that time programmes weren't accredited and there was no need for one. LAN has not even existed till 1999 and they started the whole LAN subject thing.

i can understand the good purpose of the LAN subject thing. back 2003 till 2004, everyone can borrow PTPTN loan for any programme when 2200+ programme out of 25000++ programme were accredited. the PTPTN mission went wrong when many people borrow money but never return. and then u know what happen in the middle of the process lah...

and then when PTPTN says they need LAN accreditation to borrow money, all colleges started to apply for accreditation and within one year additional 8000+ programme were accredited. but does the process help the student any better in terms of their education?

i am sure u know how much the college are paying for accrediation process per programme?

i know LAN checking and the process is to ensure better administrative work and education quality in the college and students get what they pay for. but does it require the college to pay so much for accrediting a programme.? I know its hard work to do all the checking, you think i am just a student right?

small money issue?? i doubt so..

sorry lah if u feel offended ok..... this is not intended to offend anyone... just voicing out my view..

This post has been edited by seisuichai: Oct 15 2007, 01:36 AM

PTPTN has nothing to do with LAN. the connection u're trying to make between those two are weak.

LAN exists as a regulatory body for the quality of education in IPTS. for IPTAs, they use JPA's standards, which includes a standard for facilities and student support, something that IPTS couldnt agree with. bcoz for them to provide full student accommodation would put a huge money stamp in the fees to study in IPTS. so they created LAN solely for IPTS.

LAN doesnt care about the administrative works of the IPTS. they look directly into specific courses and determine whether the diploma/degree awarded to the students of IPTS really are up to standard. this is done by having representatives from the practitioners of that field, selected academics from other schools and the law makers/legislators of that field.

as u can see, LAN has NOTHING to do with PTPTN. and for ur information, LAN started in 1997. regardless of whatever PTPTN needs, LAN existed to regulate the standard of education. without accreditation, a college may put a substantial amount of money into their advertising and less into education, making them "appear" educationally sound, where in fact they are severely substandard.

the problem with PTPTN loan back then was that a lot of people borrow money to study for programs nobody has ever heard of. the result was people "ran away" with the money to open their own business or go overseas. then PTPTN added a new requirement, to only provide financial assistance to those studying accredited programmes ONLY.

this doesnt help the students to get better in education, but it helps the student to get ONLY the education that complies to the minimum standard. how much did your college pay for an accreditation process?

how much we pay... in short....a lot lah... a lot of programme mah

so if u are saying that if a student studies for a programme nobody has ever heard of.then the big boys like taylors, sunway, monash, kdu, inti all masuk longkang ler...

actually...to make things easier and less taxing, PTPTN can accept and reject any application they see fit or no fit mah..

like the dunno which department these days, simply let any tom, d*** and hary open college. that's is why the newer colleges are spoiling the market. if MoHE and LAN is concern about education quality, they wouldn't have let anyone simply open college and approve new programmes... it all comes down to "Encik, nak open college kena bayar berapa, nak programme approval kena bayar berapa?"

clearly, the big colleges are well known for their diploma and degree programmes, but if dun have LAN accrediation then how? cannot borrow? as i know... per accreditation costs about 5k for diploma, 7k for degree and 10k-15k for Masters and PhD level. wah... banyak tu...

sorry ah..off topic a bit... then all the money collected...used for funding the space programme, i heard is about 90 million or.... i dunno whether its worth while or wasting money....

do u really know what u're talking about or just poking in the dark?

there's a clear list of what courses are accredited, which are pending and which arent. i think u're confused between what accreditation means. accreditation means that the course complies to the minimum standard of education. there are courses that do not comply to this, but they still have license to operate. but the risk are reasonably higher for the students.

so what it means is that, any tom, d*** and harry can open a college and run an education programme. but when a programme is opened, they DO NOT GET automatic accreditation. they can only get accreditation after atleast one batch have graduated. there is no way for a fresh programme to get accreditation from LAN without having students in it.

and guess what? the fees for accreditation process is minutely small. the process is long and tedious. a single accreditation process could take between 3 weeks to 6 months. and if it fails, they will have to apply again after 2 years.

those big colleges u talk about, most of their courses are already accredited by LAN. even if they dont, they still have partner programmes with overseas universities that are recognized by JPA. LAN is not just for u to get PTPTN. if u plan to work the government, they will check if ur certs are accredited by LAN. large corporation nowadays tend to use LAN as well, bcoz of the rigorous accreditation process.




and responding to the offtopic comment, please, read more. u'll find out that although the cost is RM90mil, it is fully funded by the russians.

anyway....

i know the simple process of programme approval, minimum standard and accreditation... for whatever how long and tedious the task is.... at the end of day its all about the money ler.... like you say LAN only came in at 1997... then those graduated before 1997 with no LAN accreditation cannot work in government sector?

if like that, may i say that all our PMs and Ministers, Police force, All Head of Government officers also didn't study a LAN accredited programes, so how can they work in government sectors?

like a lot universities these days who are offering masters programmes, criteria to enter, an accredited degree, so how about those who graduated with programmes without accreditation cannot do our masters?

just my 2 cents ler... actually is no point pursuing this matter....

end of the day. a good uni or a good college is decided by lots of research... and cannot be determined solely by JPA, LAN or MoHE....
Malaysia have a lot of good college with twinning programmes with top universities from overseas....

its up to the parents and students to study.... right or not?

actually, there's no point of you pursuing this matter. here's why:


LAN only accredits IPTS. long before LAN and IPTS exists, there's the JPA standard. all those u mentioned did not study in IPTS but in IPTA (or overseas) which are recognized by the JPA standard.

before 1997, there arent that many IPTS that offer degree programmes to begin with, and even if they do, they're offering twinning/partnership programmes, and non offered in house degrees. as i've explained before, IPTS couldnt fulfill the JPA standards bcoz they require the schools to provide a whole lot of other facilities that doesnt really contribute to education like accommodations, sports complex, additional skills training etc. hence why LAN was founded - to provide a more lenient but focused standard of education.



they can. masters is an academic degree, not a professional skills degree (perhaps with exception of MBA and another for law). an academic degree is purely optional, as long as the student fulfill enough credits. however, there will be a scrutiny over unaccredited degree holders, and the easiest way around this is that the university will require the candidate to acquire atleast 2 year field-related working experience.



and again, u get things all mixed up in ur head. JPA, LAN and MoHE sets the minimum standard, so that everyone gets an assurance that what they study is atleast nationally recognized. yes, a good univ would be determined by the quality (not quantity, mind u) of research. but LAN and the rest arent bothered with the top achievements, bcoz it's up to the university itself. remember, MINIMUM STANDARDS.

aiyah... u and me both mixed up,... doesn't matter ler... life goes on... and please be a little more polite and do not point to any one "you"(with underline)

i didn't pursue this matter at all... just expressing my views... that all...

Actually I suggest you analise yourself, what the camp and introduction is neutral 1.. try get some info from ur senior or relative that study else where in certain course, they are more reliable

will jpa added some amount of money to the student who are eligible to vote?
heard some rumors bout it



This post has been edited by adeas: Feb 20 2008, 01:50 PM