here's what i can share:

in order for a college to get accreditation, they have to start the course first with the first batch of students. part of the accreditation process is that the students' works are reviewed and scrutinized by experts from the related field. for example, new artificial intelligence courses in college ABC will be assessed by malaysian experts in artificial intelligence, probably some people from other established universities or industry. if the course is relatively new in malaysia, LAN will appoint external experts to assess.

usually, in establishing a new course, the college will need qualified lecturers and most importantly, the structure of the course. facilities could come second. this structures are easily adapted using established overseas courses.

in order to obtain certification (not accreditation) from LAN, they will have to prove that their course complies to the minimum international standards. once it has been confirmed, they can start the course.

usually, the first 3-4 batches are will not get an accredited degree, but their degree is certified to comply with minimum standards, which means, still fit to practice, although not necessarily 100% accepted by everyone.

for example, only 4 out of 16 schools of architecture in malaysia are accredited to award full architectural degrees. so what about the other 12 (including LUCT, taylor's, UPM, UIA, UKM, etc)? the graduates are qualified enough to work, but they will need to seek individual accreditation themselves from the respective bodies.

not necessarily.

accreditation means it complies to the standards that have been set by the industry and other academics. this is something that is agreed upon prior to the accreditation, and they publish the criterias of accreditation so that everyone could refer to it.

accreditation criteria has a much higher standards than criterias of setting up a course. setting up a course have a minimum requirements that doesnt really comply to the industry's standards.

accreditation simply means that ur future employer wont have to double check ur background in order to confirm u r qualified. well, they could just put u into a probation period for 3-6months, but not many are willing to pay u just to test u.

LAN will only terminate the course if they deem it unfit or fell below the minimum standards. but there are other reasons why a course could be terminated, for example, by the school itself on reasons like not enough students, not feasible and stuff like that; or reasons from higher up like the ministry of higher education on reasons like breach of agreement or stuff like that.

but i believe LAN or the MOHE will not terminate a course without consideration. a lot of courses both in public and private colleges still have not achieved LAN accreditations, and students still go there, no problem.

This post has been edited by azarimy: Mar 3 2006, 02:49 AM

what stevan said is generally true. although PTPTN only give out study loans to LAN accredited courses only. that's why non-accredited courses are cheaper. they had to. if not, no one will apply to their courses. it's partly a marketing strategy.

in my opinion, non-accredited courses isnt that bad. but there are a bunch which are just there to prey upon unsuspecting students. to be safe, my opinion is that u apply to courses that have been there for several years with several batches of graduates. try and get opinions from them about the course and job availability.

some courses are quite good despite not having accredited by LAN. they do this by catering EXACTLY what the industry needs, but usually foregoes other stuff like research and development.

i'm definitely sure about the current and future students, but i dont think they'll give accreditation automatically to the previous students. in UTM, the part time architectural degree is currently undergoing accreditation, and i was part of the committee working on the accreditation (until i took study leave).

LAN didnt award full accreditation for the course, and told us accreditation is pending a few adjustments and additions that they require, but, the current graduating batch and the one before it gets full accreditation. we asked about the other previous batches, they said those graduates could apply accreditation individually. it's too far back over the years for them to give accreditation automatically.

This post has been edited by azarimy: Mar 4 2006, 04:16 AM

well, i'm not sure about that. if they give full accreditation to the course, they MIGHT give all previous batches accreditation as well. but here's the procedure:

during the accreditation assessment, they want to see ALL works done by the current AND previous students. and they werent kidding about ALL works. students that were granted accreditation during our times were those who had ALL their works. those who have less than 70% of their works (especially the final year dissertation/project) were not given accreditation.

so if u've graduated by an unaccredited course, keep all ur works. i mean EVERYTHING!

that's true. if they couldnt get accreditation this year, they could apply next year and every single year until they get it. UTM part time courses (known as SPACE) have been working for accreditating architecture degree for about 5 years now. still havent got the full accreditation process. some people wanted to give up applying, because it is a very tedious process...

i'm glad that i'm away now...

the accreditation process usually takes between 2 to 4 years for a first time accreditation. that's AFTER the 1st graduates. it's not about bureaucracy, but more on waiting for the next batch to graduate and be assessed, and the batch after that and so on until they're satisfied.

once a full accreditation process is awarded, it will be valid for 5 years (commonly). reaccreditation process is shorter. usually takes between 6 months to a year.

hardly. but it would be easier for them to choose potential employees when they know that u have an accredited degree, compared to those doesnt. but in architecture firms, regardless whether u come from accredited course or not, if u're a crappy worker, u'll get the boot by the end of the week. most employers seek the individual, not the degree. but certain posts require certain qualifications. u cant become a professional architect (which carries the title AR. infront of their names) if u dont have an accredited architectural degree. this applies to other commonwealth countries as well.

so i assume other professional courses have this regulation as well.

it doesnt mean a thing actually.

foundation is a field specific course, and in malaysia unfortunately, foundation is a field-specific, course-specific and school-specific course. which means that if u're taking foundation of arts in HELP, u can only continue studying in degree of arts in HELP.

foundation courses were meant to be open, meaning if u take foundation of arts in HELP, u should be able to continue for ur degree in any other universities offering degree in arts. however, we have yet to come to that point yet, coz foundation courses arent centralized yet. well, atleast not in malaysia.

this brings us back to ur question. what does it mean?

it means that, if it's not accredited, it doesnt really matter. why? because foundation is not ur final certificate/qualification. working outside, people just look at ur last qualification (and if they even bother, check on the accreditation of ur last qualification).

what u really need to worry about is ur last qualification. if u're planning to stop at degree in arts, then make sure ur degree in arts is accredited. since u're planning to take foundation in help, make sure help's degree in arts (or whatever relevant) is accredited.

lets get something clear:

do u already possess an engineering diploma, or applying FOR an engineering diploma?

a. if u already have an engineering diploma:

they wont so much look into ur SPM other than to justify the grades and make sure u qualify for the minimum requirements. in any applications, they will always look for the latest qualifications.

b. if u r applying for an engineering diploma:

well, u can, but it'll be harder. priority will always be given to students with science background, but it doesnt mean they will throw ur application out the window.

PTPTN does not give out loans to unaccredited courses. there's no other way around it, atleast not that i know of.

what do u mean by achieving minimum standards of LAN? it's either the course is accredited, or not. that's what matters to PTPTN. if it is accredited, regardless of minimum or outstanding, PTPTN WILL offer the loan to prospective students.

do check on the course accreditation at LAN's website. or just put the name of the course and also the university u're applying here, someone might be able to give a different advice.

accreditation assessment does not apply forever. look at it as a method of keeping track that what they teach/education that they give in those institutions are according to the standard that have been set by the industry (which includes both government and private). although LAN is government, the assessment of each courses are conducted by respected professionals (both gvment and private). once they agree that everything offered is in order, they'll award accreditation.

accreditation is a tedious process, where the assessors will have to go through each and every detail they have. this includes going through virtually every paper submitted by students, projects, exams, exam questions, group works, presentation and so on. accreditation is only valid for 5 years. after that, the institution is responsible to renew it, by setting up another assessment for their school to get accreditation for the next 5 years.

and so on, and so forth. it's a check and balance system. imagine ur parents checking up on ur homework every 5 hours...

i think u'd have to acknowledge the fact that all sponsors and loans in malaysia requires the students to enrol into accredited courses. that was the primary concern of most whom discussed in this particular thread. i'm sure if they have the money they'd be studying atleast in australia by now.

also, the main concern with most students going to tertiery education is that they are not aware of the standards of education. PMR, SPM, STPM is all the same everywhere. so as A-levels, matrics, int. baccalaurette etc. but law in UIA is definitely different from UM. architecture in LUCT is of totally different standard from UTM. the question that pops to their mind is, "why is it different? cant u have one standard for all? will i learn more here or there? what about job prospects?" etc.

i'm sure u're aware of all these questions.

dangerous? no it wont kill u if that's what u think.

lets say u will finish ur degree in 2007. the school accreditation expires in 2006. if the school did not get themselves reaccredited, u'll find urself graduating with a non-accredited degree. in such cases, it will REALLY depends on ur seniors' reputation.

if they have good reputation, it'll be easier for u to get a job. but i cant say the same if u want to continue ur studies (ie, diploma -> degree).

if it's recognized by LAN, it will be recognized by JPA. LAN is msia's standard for any certificates, and if LAN recognizes a particular certificate, it would mean that JPA will comply as well.

and JPA DOES NOT accreditate schools. they just sponsor students to accredited schools. but since LAN only accreditates local schools, JPA has a list of overseas schools that is based on each country's rating for each school.

actually, in the education essentials sub-forum, providing links are not only welcomed, it's the professional way to put an argument across. i cant imagine anyone who would find THAT annoying. so why not put money where ur mouth is, and provide proof via link.

the burden of proof lies on those who claims it first, not those who dispute it.

i'm offended by the fact that u type like that assuming others are stupid. if u wanna say something, say it out loud. LAN and MoHE is never about the malays. u're confusing one thing with something else. get ur facts right before u start blabbering nonsense! i've been personally involved in LAN accreditation process, i can tell u by first hand experience. lets compare that with whatever "facts" u have, shall we?

PTPTN has nothing to do with LAN. the connection u're trying to make between those two are weak.

LAN exists as a regulatory body for the quality of education in IPTS. for IPTAs, they use JPA's standards, which includes a standard for facilities and student support, something that IPTS couldnt agree with. bcoz for them to provide full student accommodation would put a huge money stamp in the fees to study in IPTS. so they created LAN solely for IPTS.

LAN doesnt care about the administrative works of the IPTS. they look directly into specific courses and determine whether the diploma/degree awarded to the students of IPTS really are up to standard. this is done by having representatives from the practitioners of that field, selected academics from other schools and the law makers/legislators of that field.

as u can see, LAN has NOTHING to do with PTPTN. and for ur information, LAN started in 1997. regardless of whatever PTPTN needs, LAN existed to regulate the standard of education. without accreditation, a college may put a substantial amount of money into their advertising and less into education, making them "appear" educationally sound, where in fact they are severely substandard.

the problem with PTPTN loan back then was that a lot of people borrow money to study for programs nobody has ever heard of. the result was people "ran away" with the money to open their own business or go overseas. then PTPTN added a new requirement, to only provide financial assistance to those studying accredited programmes ONLY.

this doesnt help the students to get better in education, but it helps the student to get ONLY the education that complies to the minimum standard. how much did your college pay for an accreditation process?

do u really know what u're talking about or just poking in the dark?

there's a clear list of what courses are accredited, which are pending and which arent. i think u're confused between what accreditation means. accreditation means that the course complies to the minimum standard of education. there are courses that do not comply to this, but they still have license to operate. but the risk are reasonably higher for the students.

so what it means is that, any tom, d*** and harry can open a college and run an education programme. but when a programme is opened, they DO NOT GET automatic accreditation. they can only get accreditation after atleast one batch have graduated. there is no way for a fresh programme to get accreditation from LAN without having students in it.

and guess what? the fees for accreditation process is minutely small. the process is long and tedious. a single accreditation process could take between 3 weeks to 6 months. and if it fails, they will have to apply again after 2 years.

those big colleges u talk about, most of their courses are already accredited by LAN. even if they dont, they still have partner programmes with overseas universities that are recognized by JPA. LAN is not just for u to get PTPTN. if u plan to work the government, they will check if ur certs are accredited by LAN. large corporation nowadays tend to use LAN as well, bcoz of the rigorous accreditation process.




and responding to the offtopic comment, please, read more. u'll find out that although the cost is RM90mil, it is fully funded by the russians.

actually, there's no point of you pursuing this matter. here's why:


LAN only accredits IPTS. long before LAN and IPTS exists, there's the JPA standard. all those u mentioned did not study in IPTS but in IPTA (or overseas) which are recognized by the JPA standard.

before 1997, there arent that many IPTS that offer degree programmes to begin with, and even if they do, they're offering twinning/partnership programmes, and non offered in house degrees. as i've explained before, IPTS couldnt fulfill the JPA standards bcoz they require the schools to provide a whole lot of other facilities that doesnt really contribute to education like accommodations, sports complex, additional skills training etc. hence why LAN was founded - to provide a more lenient but focused standard of education.



they can. masters is an academic degree, not a professional skills degree (perhaps with exception of MBA and another for law). an academic degree is purely optional, as long as the student fulfill enough credits. however, there will be a scrutiny over unaccredited degree holders, and the easiest way around this is that the university will require the candidate to acquire atleast 2 year field-related working experience.



and again, u get things all mixed up in ur head. JPA, LAN and MoHE sets the minimum standard, so that everyone gets an assurance that what they study is atleast nationally recognized. yes, a good univ would be determined by the quality (not quantity, mind u) of research. but LAN and the rest arent bothered with the top achievements, bcoz it's up to the university itself. remember, MINIMUM STANDARDS.