How can BR said this .... ""There is a big job to do and we will have more days like this along the way,"

Yes, there is no bigger job to do than becoming a manager of Liverpool Football Club, fact, but by him saying the last bit is totally unnecessary, eventhough he tried to be honest. It sends negative signals to the team, the players could be thinking ... "oh yeah it's alright to have a bad game, the gaffer just said that" ... and to the fans it does sound as if we're going to be a bit hopeless this season, doesn't bring much hope to the fans.

To me, one sentence sums up the match against WBA ....... ineffectiveness in the final third. BR do something about it, otherwise we'll be mauled by Man City. He should have targeted players like Edwin Moses who is direct and dares to take on defenders. We have too many ball passers already, look at our statistics on possession, how impressive but takes us nowhere. It appears that he could have been too gung-ho trying out his tiki-taka against WBA and it turned pear shape. He should have instilled his tiki-taka bit by bit, looks like AVB chapter II all over again?

This post has been edited by redkop63: Aug 20 2012, 08:01 AM

every season with new manager,new tactic ,new this and new that will bring us nowhere honestly.. you need to stick with 1 manager and with the same players at least 1-2 season together.

for me since the owners want us to start from scratch, fine just stick to BR and give him 2-3 seasons.. we have alot of young players and stop dreaming about winning trophy or getting top 4..

unless you have ppl like sheikh mansour spend his own money to buy players.. so stop dreaming

This post has been edited by kevafk: Aug 20 2012, 06:59 AM

The way I sees it, Downing is much more effective on the left, he's a natural left footer and a left footer winger is expected to swing in effective crosses from the left with his left foot. We put Downing on the right and expects him to swing in crosses with his left foot, not effective, but when he tried to do it with his right foot it ended up horribly wrong and at the stands and its embarassing and obviously he can't do it effectively. Steve McMahon sums it up nicely..... "trying to put a square peg into a round hole".

Yes. you're right to say that Downing can cut in and swing in the crosses or shoot but that will be the secondary priority as a winger while the WBA defender has restricted his movement. We could see in the match that it's very obvious the defender sticked to him and make sure that Downing doesn't cut in. Downing's primary objective should be to take the ball to the touch line beat the defender or swing in the crosses, and that he has failed miserably. As for Kelly, I believe the tactic deployed is such that he's not expected to provide the width and support as much as I could see in the match and Downng is expected to do that all by himself. Can't remember seeing Kelly bombing down the touchlne, i could be wrong though. What I failed to see is that Downing has taken the initiative to take on defenders as a winger as what he is paid to do while we don't need anymore of his side and backpasses which is truly unproductive.

No, no Oussama is on the left. Yes, yes I mean, putting Shelvey on the right would have yielded better results, unless we have an Adam Johnson or Walcott on our side now, while Downing has failed miserably to execute what he is paid for to do . Shelvey being Shelvey he will do what he is instructed to do eventhough he does get too excited and too commited at times, that's good we need more of that from the team. Borini went to the right during the last bit of the game and took on the defender? I was getting all excited and told myself - well at least Borini made the WBA defender earn his week's wages and made some useful contributions from the right. And I could see the WBA defender shitting himself in the pants for the first time in the game.

This post has been edited by redkop63: Aug 20 2012, 08:19 AM

You're back! Did you see the said offence? Long came from behind Skrtel and tripped over the letters legs. Reminds me of how Malouda once won an audacious penalty off Steve Finnan years back. Anyway, it's called an opinion. If you read articles on the game, you'll note that opinions differ but I know you won't. Typical...

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Added on August 20, 2012, 7:31 amThanks. I on the other hand don't like entering your thread. Too many hollow, one-liner attention seeking posters like yourself. A place where brains go to die and you're a model citizen

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Aug 20 2012, 07:35 AM

We can't wait too long to win things or get back to the top 4. Not sure what FSG will think of that in view of KD gone in 1 season. I think by then the club may have been folded where big time sponsors would have gone elsewhere and we have a bloated wages to take care of and could end up like Rangers. Call it knee jerk but I hope not to see that day of reckoning.

Hate to say Adidas was right in what they have said about us, they're right in many ways. How often we hear bosses telling us ..... "just get it done i don't want to hear excuses". Dreams are made of this and time is an essence to achieve success in the modern game, as much as I hate to believe but has to admit that being the case in the modern game. Patience will not be the flavor in the modern game as what the FSG has demonstrated in KD's case. Never mind what they say in the open, they will always be looking for success within the shortest possible time and they'll be cold blooded if they need to. Anyway they're businessmen and 'human sentiments" doesn't come into play for them.

As for the fan base, we're drifting from being one of the most popular and best supported club to one of the also rans. All said and done, the modern game is dictated by sponsorhips, air time and fan base, FSG should be able to tell us more.

This post has been edited by redkop63: Aug 20 2012, 08:21 AM

Standard Chartered have signed on until the end of 2014. Not sure how long Warrior will remain sponsors but suffice to say, they'll be here at least as long as FSG own the club. The thing about the Adidas statement is this. Whatever our league form at the moment, we still sell the most number of jerseys worldwide behind the mancs, Barca and Real Madrid.

Many of us fans from the 80's have withstood the test of time. I mean we went through almost a whole decade winning only two cups and yet, our loyalty is unshakeable. Ask posters here and you'll note that some became fans in the 90's under Souness or Evans when we were not competing for the league, same as now. People scoff when I say we're a special club but indeed I believe we are despite snide and sarcastic comments from our rivals. Who give a flying f anyway. What matters is what we believe. As my signature says, "our faith is the weapon most feared by our enemies". It says a lot to me. Human sentiment may not have a place amongst businessmen but it does amongst the fans. It is because of sentiment that I stood tall through trying times despite being mocked by my manc supporting mates every time.

The Rangers comparison is a little extreme. Firstly, FSG cleared any debt we had upon taking over. They then proceeded to trim our wage bill. Unchecked spending may bring us back full circle which is why Rodgers has to sell to buy, and which is also why we've not gone for the big names. We've basically signed a bunch of kids this season.

Anyway it's first game of the season so let's get behind Rodgers and the lads.

'if' we lost against city next match hope fan here will not be raging as city are far better than us...

wish we can get a point in next match

Because if he try to sugarcoat the situation, people will call it as an excuse.

Thats the problem with sports people and interview after a loss. They can never win.

wow internet argument. I like with the like of Sifha and radio_head joining in I can safely declare that the new campaign has offcially started Welcome the more the merrier...

I've not seen Downing done anything good on the left to be honest. On the other hand, he's been quite effective on the right for BR. For example, the 2 games against Gomel, and the Leverkusen game. In the opening minutes against WBA, he put in a lovely cross for Borini which the forward failed to make any contact whatsoever. I think we should all now realize what kind of winger Downing is. He's not a Messi, and we should not expect anything else other than a Downing. A winger who requires close support from the fullback.

In all honesty, a lot of our players were quite poor that day. It wasn't just Downing. Gerrard was consistently very poor, was the catalyst for the 2nd goal. Lucas was looking very rusty - slow, struggled to win most duels. Suarez was firing blanks and Borini too struggled to get into the game. The less i speak of the 2 CBs the better. The only positive things were Allen, Reina and perhaps Johnson.

Why would you put Shelvey on the right ? Has he even played there before ? I mean that's a perfect example of the saying 'trying to put a square peg into a round hole'. The lad is CM and that's where he should play imo. I sooner see Borini or Suarez or even Gerrard play on the right before the likes of Shelvey play there.

There's no guarantee that Stanchart and Warrior will continue to be the sponsors if success is not delivered to them between now and then, otherwise they will most probably be roasted by their own board. They are through and through businessmen and they have no sentiments over the club that they sponsor, as what you've rightly mentioned their consicence is guided by profits while ours is by loyalty.

Coming from the 70s tribe, yes we were the in-thing and those successes of the 70s and 80s carries us through to the 90s and perhaps a little over 2000s. Lack of succeses over the 90s and beyond 2000 has caused our popularity and fan base to grow by a much slower pace and I have to eat the humble pie to say that it's the case now. Don't get me wrong, I'm not happy and I'm not proud at all with what I've just expressed and I'm not getting any less loyal by saying so and it pains me to say that, but we have to acknowledge the reality of the situation of the club now.

Let's look at the LFC now, not the one that we know of in the 70s/80s/90s, it's like any other business entity that survives on the success of customers retention and new customers coming through the pipeline. Situation now stands that due to our recent lack of successes (90s and 2000s) the club very much retains the customer base, like you and me plus many others from the same era because we were very much associated with those successful years. I won't also fail to also mention and to give much credit to many of the supporters here trickling in after year 2000, moreso after 2010, which is often associated with those lean years.

Time has moved, the way football club is run has also changed by much and it evolves around winning on the pitch and gets translated into financial rewards while also broadening of the customers/fan base. Yes, I'm very happy to know from your tone that you're through and through a diehard Liverpool fan and I'm no different but we need to be down to earth to acknowledge where we are now compared to say 20 or 25 years ago. To hell with what the mancs have to say about us, it doesn't bother me a bit.

I think we’re debating on a different basis, your is more tawords fans loyalty while mine is towards the long term suvival and growth of the club from the financial and the widening of the fan base.

Thanks for sharing your thought.

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Added on August 20, 2012, 12:33 pmTo be honest. I've seen Downing being more effective on the left, being his natural position, of course it could be better where his crosses ended up everywhere except the target man. Does it mean that you believe Downing will be more of a natural right winger than a left winger in the long run? Let's see whether BR does continue to put Downing on the right and see what happens next, and I hope Downing can prove me wrong and we come back and debate another day. I couldn't think of any useful crosses Downing made in the game against WBA, that I could have missed? With due respect to Gomel and Leverkusen, they're different opposition and a friendly game respectively, in the EPL let's not expect the WBA defenders to give Downing an inch to do that, they do study video recorded games of ours and they're no mugs.

Ok, if you want my opinion it's simple and I'll be blunt ..... Shelvey has got more guts or balls to take on defenders on the wings and he may run through brick walls if asked upon, that's what I believe. The same argument can be used here, why did Johnson on the left? At least now we know Johnson can be effective on the left as oppose to Downing on the right. Downing has shown time and again he doesn't take on defenders enough, whether on the left or right but consistently and conveniently making those those side and back passes. It embarasses me to say that Johnson looks more like a natural left winger to me than Downing. Of course you have now asked how will Shelvey adapt, but if we don't try Shelvey out how would we know, not that we have other options and it's evident that Downing has failed on the right more than on the left.

I do agreed the whole team played badly, not only Downing.

This post has been edited by redkop63: Aug 20 2012, 12:53 PM

is there any highlights of the match? including how skrtel and agger fouled Long? cant find them on dailymotion :/

I seriously don't see BR survivng past the 5th match if we continue with our form like this.

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/latest-new...ld-me-about-kop

We are one of the reason Borini coming to Liverpool. We should be proud

"The fans played a big part (in me joining Liverpool)" - Borini
"Liverpool fans were the most passionate in England" - Balotelli

This post has been edited by marche: Aug 20 2012, 01:54 PM

Essentially, from what i saw during the match against WBA, we are playing the same style, system and movement as when KD still in charge...nothing changes. BR need to walk the talk and initiate changes, which from what i saw during the match, except for personnel changes - Allen for Adam, Borrini for Kuyt..there isnt much changes made...we are still putting a forward in suarez as the striker..who is more prone to missing than putting into the net....i bet most of us would have wish Carrol at the end of 2 header chances created,,,only for suarez to put them wide!

Our midfield is not as strong as what we believe, as I think only 2 players are putting in some effort during the match - allen and lucas....gerrard is out of sort...downing is trying hard...and from what i can see he is creating nuisance on the right wing...somehow our link up play was affected by..our captain...yes....he is not providing enough support to both Borini and Downing...the hell he is the attacking midfield..Allen and Lucas are the holding midfielder....if my team is not attacking steady...i look for the attacking midfield and yes - its mr gerrard....but i dont think there will be any changes in the foreseeable future, as what Mr Gerrard said - he wont reinvent himself - so unless our captain can find the form of his life and inspire Liverpool...i personally dont see BR will ask gerrard playing on the flanks

We desperately need pacey wingers and to incorporate Carrol into team play...otherwise, we will be stuck again playing too narrow, and never exploit the flank....

Success does attract more wealthy sponsors, without a doubt. Having said that, Liverpool is a club in a very unique situation. I mentioned the 3 clubs who sell more kits than us and if you look at them. They constantly challenge for honours every year. There are many clubs who do but sell less kits than us. It is indeed about revenue for the sponsors. If we sell kits and people watch our games, they'll be happy because all they want are eyeballs. The only uncertainty is how long we can keep growing our fanbase. You may be right to suggest that growth in this aspect has stagnated but I'm more inclined to believe that the global fanbase has been diluted with the introduction of more contending teams like Chelsea and Man City. In the past it was either Man Utd or Liverpool.

Not saying that we'll be all good if we continue to struggle but the situations is hardly critical yet. Just saying that to compare us with Ranger at this point is a little extreme.

Gerrad does seems to struggle abit at this advanced position. I dun think it suits him.He played in htat position before for Rafa but he is at his best when we are counter-attacking, with more pace and direct,also Its pretty much 2 defensive midfielders guarding him when allen and lucas sit back against west brom

And another thing is we are signing a goal poacher and puts him wide to deliver crosses and cut-in. Would be better to try and play him in the box instead.

http://rutube.ru/video/dd1100bdbf5d1e09e692c47cee0d580c/

19min highlight..

Downing was quite decent at the start of the game, he put in a good cross but Borini failed to make any contact with it whatsoever. I don't think the intent of playing Downing on the right was to make him play like a traditional winger, but more towards him playing like an inside forward. This worked really well in pre season when he had Johnson to offer support. When he cut inside, Johnson was there out wide to offer option for him. But this was not the case against WBA. Kelly proved to be ineffective as an advance fullback, lacking both footwork and physical ability to bomb forward. Compounded with the lack of movement from Gerrard and Lucas inability to assert full authority in central mid, the right flank was bound to collapse at one point or another. It was really a bad day at work for most of the players.

In regards to Johnson, him playing on the left is not something new. He has played there before under Rafa and Kenny. For the past 2-3 seasons, he's been the 2nd choice leftback. He has 2 good feet; can either stay out wide to provide crosses or cut inside to attack the goal. He's no where near as good as playing on the right but even then, he's still better then the other alternatives i.e. Agger.

I hope you're right about Shelvey. Maybe he can play there but i suppose we'll see.

Can certainly understand why BR wants Downing on the right. Let's not forget we are now playing 4-3-3, its not a winger position, its a wide forward role. You can think of him as Barcelona's Pedro. His role is to cut in from wide positions to make penetrating through balls or take a shot not make crosses. I believe the crossing and width job now belong to our full backs which Johnson particularly excels at. The problem was Enrique's last minute injury, Kelly isn't quite the adventurous type and the same goes to Robinson regardless of whether or not he is ready for the first team, they are certainly better at defensive duties than offense. Glen Johnson on the other hand does better a offensive job than any of our full backs even when playing on the left.

Saying BR not making any changes to our style of play is too extreme. If you look back at our first half I can see us trying to play how BR's Swansea played last season albeit not quite getting it. Too many stray passes even for our captain fantastic. It can be down to understanding and the team need to be given time to gel and learn, its only the first game after all. From what I've seen I think that the players are often standing too far away from each other instead of constantly moving which is needed to play this passing style. Barca's tiki-taka utilizes players' constant movement to form little triangles to make quick short passes and one-twos when moving the ball around while we were being too static and holding the ground looking and waiting for the ball. It would have worked if we were Barca but our players weren't good enough technically to thread accurate long on the ground passes which led to too many interceptions by Mulumbu and Yacob who were leading the counter attacks. When you play a possession game and a high defensive line, every counter attack opportunity by the opponent can be lethal. That, I believe was our downfall. Of course it doesn't help when Suarez is wasting chances left and right.