The moment we have Johnson on the left and Downing on the right we are simply asking to be beaten, it should have been the other way round. The moment I saw the teamsheet I wasn't comfortable at all. Johnson and Downing are right and left footers respectively and putting them on the opposite sides just doesn't help things. I'd say Johnson put in some useful crosses and he has done his utmost. Downing? He is just not trying hard enough or not trying at all, time for him to move on, he bolted himself at the byline throughout the game, doesn't seems to or bothered to drag defenders into the final third or into the box with him. Defenders love that and just have to make sure they keep him quiet and us away from their box, as a result we see the side and backpasses from Downing. Downing scored a wonder goal from the same position against Gomel, doesn't mean that the same trick will work as WBA and others will not give him the time to do that.

Borini also did not try hard enough, I don't remember seeing him involved much in the game. At least when we put him on the right wing, he fared much better than Downing. Shelvey should have started, at least he'll give the Broom defender's a torrid time. We pass the ball around too much, should have been route one, make it simple and as fast not to geve Broom's defence chance to regroup and re-act.

Shelvey would have been better and I hope to see him start the next game instead of Downing.

How can BR said this .... ""There is a big job to do and we will have more days like this along the way,"

Yes, there is no bigger job to do than becoming a manager of Liverpool Football Club, fact, but by him saying the last bit is totally unnecessary, eventhough he tried to be honest. It sends negative signals to the team, the players could be thinking ... "oh yeah it's alright to have a bad game, the gaffer just said that" ... and to the fans it does sound as if we're going to be a bit hopeless this season, doesn't bring much hope to the fans.

To me, one sentence sums up the match against WBA ....... ineffectiveness in the final third. BR do something about it, otherwise we'll be mauled by Man City. He should have targeted players like Edwin Moses who is direct and dares to take on defenders. We have too many ball passers already, look at our statistics on possession, how impressive but takes us nowhere. It appears that he could have been too gung-ho trying out his tiki-taka against WBA and it turned pear shape. He should have instilled his tiki-taka bit by bit, looks like AVB chapter II all over again?

This post has been edited by redkop63: Aug 20 2012, 08:01 AM

The way I sees it, Downing is much more effective on the left, he's a natural left footer and a left footer winger is expected to swing in effective crosses from the left with his left foot. We put Downing on the right and expects him to swing in crosses with his left foot, not effective, but when he tried to do it with his right foot it ended up horribly wrong and at the stands and its embarassing and obviously he can't do it effectively. Steve McMahon sums it up nicely..... "trying to put a square peg into a round hole".

Yes. you're right to say that Downing can cut in and swing in the crosses or shoot but that will be the secondary priority as a winger while the WBA defender has restricted his movement. We could see in the match that it's very obvious the defender sticked to him and make sure that Downing doesn't cut in. Downing's primary objective should be to take the ball to the touch line beat the defender or swing in the crosses, and that he has failed miserably. As for Kelly, I believe the tactic deployed is such that he's not expected to provide the width and support as much as I could see in the match and Downng is expected to do that all by himself. Can't remember seeing Kelly bombing down the touchlne, i could be wrong though. What I failed to see is that Downing has taken the initiative to take on defenders as a winger as what he is paid to do while we don't need anymore of his side and backpasses which is truly unproductive.

No, no Oussama is on the left. Yes, yes I mean, putting Shelvey on the right would have yielded better results, unless we have an Adam Johnson or Walcott on our side now, while Downing has failed miserably to execute what he is paid for to do . Shelvey being Shelvey he will do what he is instructed to do eventhough he does get too excited and too commited at times, that's good we need more of that from the team. Borini went to the right during the last bit of the game and took on the defender? I was getting all excited and told myself - well at least Borini made the WBA defender earn his week's wages and made some useful contributions from the right. And I could see the WBA defender shitting himself in the pants for the first time in the game.

This post has been edited by redkop63: Aug 20 2012, 08:19 AM

We can't wait too long to win things or get back to the top 4. Not sure what FSG will think of that in view of KD gone in 1 season. I think by then the club may have been folded where big time sponsors would have gone elsewhere and we have a bloated wages to take care of and could end up like Rangers. Call it knee jerk but I hope not to see that day of reckoning.

Hate to say Adidas was right in what they have said about us, they're right in many ways. How often we hear bosses telling us ..... "just get it done i don't want to hear excuses". Dreams are made of this and time is an essence to achieve success in the modern game, as much as I hate to believe but has to admit that being the case in the modern game. Patience will not be the flavor in the modern game as what the FSG has demonstrated in KD's case. Never mind what they say in the open, they will always be looking for success within the shortest possible time and they'll be cold blooded if they need to. Anyway they're businessmen and 'human sentiments" doesn't come into play for them.

As for the fan base, we're drifting from being one of the most popular and best supported club to one of the also rans. All said and done, the modern game is dictated by sponsorhips, air time and fan base, FSG should be able to tell us more.

This post has been edited by redkop63: Aug 20 2012, 08:21 AM

There's no guarantee that Stanchart and Warrior will continue to be the sponsors if success is not delivered to them between now and then, otherwise they will most probably be roasted by their own board. They are through and through businessmen and they have no sentiments over the club that they sponsor, as what you've rightly mentioned their consicence is guided by profits while ours is by loyalty.

Coming from the 70s tribe, yes we were the in-thing and those successes of the 70s and 80s carries us through to the 90s and perhaps a little over 2000s. Lack of succeses over the 90s and beyond 2000 has caused our popularity and fan base to grow by a much slower pace and I have to eat the humble pie to say that it's the case now. Don't get me wrong, I'm not happy and I'm not proud at all with what I've just expressed and I'm not getting any less loyal by saying so and it pains me to say that, but we have to acknowledge the reality of the situation of the club now.

Let's look at the LFC now, not the one that we know of in the 70s/80s/90s, it's like any other business entity that survives on the success of customers retention and new customers coming through the pipeline. Situation now stands that due to our recent lack of successes (90s and 2000s) the club very much retains the customer base, like you and me plus many others from the same era because we were very much associated with those successful years. I won't also fail to also mention and to give much credit to many of the supporters here trickling in after year 2000, moreso after 2010, which is often associated with those lean years.

Time has moved, the way football club is run has also changed by much and it evolves around winning on the pitch and gets translated into financial rewards while also broadening of the customers/fan base. Yes, I'm very happy to know from your tone that you're through and through a diehard Liverpool fan and I'm no different but we need to be down to earth to acknowledge where we are now compared to say 20 or 25 years ago. To hell with what the mancs have to say about us, it doesn't bother me a bit.

I think we’re debating on a different basis, your is more tawords fans loyalty while mine is towards the long term suvival and growth of the club from the financial and the widening of the fan base.

Thanks for sharing your thought.

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Added on August 20, 2012, 12:33 pmTo be honest. I've seen Downing being more effective on the left, being his natural position, of course it could be better where his crosses ended up everywhere except the target man. Does it mean that you believe Downing will be more of a natural right winger than a left winger in the long run? Let's see whether BR does continue to put Downing on the right and see what happens next, and I hope Downing can prove me wrong and we come back and debate another day. I couldn't think of any useful crosses Downing made in the game against WBA, that I could have missed? With due respect to Gomel and Leverkusen, they're different opposition and a friendly game respectively, in the EPL let's not expect the WBA defenders to give Downing an inch to do that, they do study video recorded games of ours and they're no mugs.

Ok, if you want my opinion it's simple and I'll be blunt ..... Shelvey has got more guts or balls to take on defenders on the wings and he may run through brick walls if asked upon, that's what I believe. The same argument can be used here, why did Johnson on the left? At least now we know Johnson can be effective on the left as oppose to Downing on the right. Downing has shown time and again he doesn't take on defenders enough, whether on the left or right but consistently and conveniently making those those side and back passes. It embarasses me to say that Johnson looks more like a natural left winger to me than Downing. Of course you have now asked how will Shelvey adapt, but if we don't try Shelvey out how would we know, not that we have other options and it's evident that Downing has failed on the right more than on the left.

I do agreed the whole team played badly, not only Downing.

This post has been edited by redkop63: Aug 20 2012, 12:53 PM

Yes, the club is very steep in tradition that not many clubs can rival. By having the statistics to show that 3 clubs sells more kits than us gives us a good indication that they may have a wider fan base worldwide than us. I wouldn't imply that our fanbase growth has stagnated but more of others are growing at a much faster rate than us due to their success on the field.

I believe Chelsea's fan base has grown steadily over the years while Man City is just beginning to and if we had achieved similar success like them, these fans should have been ours instead of theirs. People likes to be associated with winners and I for one won't deny that, paritularly the younger generation of supporter, like what happened to me when I was young. I believe, the club still has a very strong fan base because of their successes during those all conquering years of the 70s and 80 and some moments during 90s and 2000s. The older generation of supporters will slowly phase out and the club need succeses to attract new generation of supporters.

Yeah, your're right to say that we are not at a stage of Rangers, I may be overly cautious or excited but if we're not careful and let succeses drifts further aaway from us while the overheads continues to rise and the fanbase doesn't grow but dwindles, it may lead to that direction.

So, what's the prediction for Man City's game?

Yes, I'll go along with your thoughts eventhough we're playing at home. Hopefully, they've licked the wounds and come out playing like men possessed. But my only reservation is the referee, we could be beaten by him not Man City.

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Added on August 20, 2012, 5:45 pmLooking at current sitution, I wll be honest to say that the team's confidence is not at an all time high and has taken a big jolt. We may have to alter our style a bit by defending deeper as Man City is very dangerous on the offensive and Agger not around will somewhat weaken our defence. We may have to play a counter attacking game. If we could nick an early goal will be good as ManCity will moev higher up the pitch leaving more space at the back. Without being too optimistic, I'll be happy with a 0-0 score.

This post has been edited by redkop63: Aug 20 2012, 05:45 PM

Ok, since scoring goals is something so difficult to come by and if I'm BR I'll DEMAND the following no of goals from each player from the 38 matches and it's a minimum target that every player will have to meet, failure which it'll have an impact on their pay rise :-

Johnson : 5
Agger : 3
Skrtel : 3
Enrique/Kelly : 3
Lucas : 3
Stevie : 8
Allen : 6
Downing : 5
Borini : 8
Suarez : 16

Defence : 14 Goals Midfield : 17 Forwards : 29

That comes to a grand total of 60, which may propel us to a top 4 finish. Please don't ask for any basis how the figure comes about and please also don't condemn the estimation and feel free to adjust to your liking. The estimation it purely based on what I felt each of the player is capable of achieving and that we are not going to get in a prolific striker. Some, will have lots to say about Downing, if he can't do it this season he'll need to get lost and let someone else do the job.

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Added on August 22, 2012, 8:29 pmToo much of a coincidence that he gets injured so often, the old saying ... "lightning doesn't strike twice" .... but it's like 4 times already. When Chelski gave him to us FOC, they may already know something that we don't. There's no free lunch in this world.

This post has been edited by redkop63: Aug 22 2012, 08:31 PM

RVP single handedly carry the whole team through and he has lost his point of direction and most probably lost the plot as well. As ggod as us selling Suarez to our most bitter rival. Time will tell whether he got it right this time.

The players should take a look at how WBA played against Spuds and asked themselves what are they made of and what are they lacking compared with WBA players.

That's what I'm jibing at the old senile manager of theirs, if he's not serious and doesn't have the guts and financial muscles to wrestle till the end, don't waste everyone's time. Summore ask Sahin to hold on and not to sign for us until he sorted his mess. For some reason or another, I never fancy that Wenger fellow, even when his team is well beaten, he went round blaming everyhting from the weather to the tea lady.

The club has the final say where the player should go as in Sahin's case and ther're plenty of suitors out there not only manure.

Much much improvement from last week and I thought the whole team performed well after last week's setback. Passes were ok, except at the final 3rd and if we could say 20% sharper with the final pass, we would have created better scoring chances. I'm sure this will improve along the way and the team looks like beginning to gel. Particularly impressed with Coates, never failed to put in a tackle. Kelly looks bit uncomfortable on the ball, he could improve his crosses into the box. Borini had an average game but must get himself more involved with the game instead of just watching along the Stevie - Suarez combo which is far too predictable for defenders..

Suarez, as usual played well except that when inside the box he'll need to look up for teamates who are in better scoring position, can't possibly dribble the ball pass every defender into the box and no one says he must score in every game and sometimes assist is equally important as scoring. Sterling played like a veteran, he has that burst of speed in him in the first 10 yards ala Owen and must use that often just outside the opposition box to beat defenders. He was fast to track back and looks as if he was on skates and managed to derail Balotelli a few times, I'm impressed. He deserves to start the next game.

Allen had a solid game and his positioning was good and being effective and not being noticed much. Andy did reasonably well but he has to make an effort to meet the crosses coming in and not waiting for the ball to land on his head. He'll need to do a Skrtel and with his physical attributes, not too many defenders can handle him.

We deserve the 3 points but happy with the draw.

Hope to see better movement in the final third by others to open up defences and not only relying on Stevie and Suarez to create and score.

I'm not sure what's the purpose of Borini on the field, he doesn't try hard enough and he's without a purpose on the field. How many games more does he need to get himself familiarise with the game? Most probably the pace and the physical side of things is too much for him to handle. We need to break up this Stevie-Suarez combo, it has proved to be nothing but a disaster of late. Looks like teams are scoring goals on the counter like what Man City did and yet BR did nothing about it.

We've been deceived by his skills, yes he can dribble pass defenders sometimes but not all the time and we have to knock some sense into him from this very minute that football is a team game and he don't play for himself but for the team and the club. I'm surprised BR doesn't sees that and ask him to change his approach, not to mention playing with his head down, how is he gonna know where his fellow teamates are in a better scoring position. Pepe is shocking of late, he's helping in goals more than stopping it. The signs were there in the Hearts game and BR took it as a one off game.

This post has been edited by redkop63: Sep 2 2012, 11:08 PM

I don't really buy into the thing of giving it more time, we're 3 games into the new season and the players are playing like strangers to each other. We can treat every game as an opportunity to get into the new system, the training should be able to do that and the game proper to show that. Goodness me, these are seasoned players and paid in excess of 50k or more per week to perform and they played as if they've just been promoted from the second stringers. Either the training is not doing anything more than knocking the ball around instead of how to break teams down or the players are simply not trying hard enough and needs to be bollocked big time.

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Added on September 2, 2012, 11:29 pmJoke aside, at this very moment I have more faith in Owen than a combine Suarez and Borini to score goals.

This post has been edited by redkop63: Sep 2 2012, 11:29 PM

At least Owen can teach Suarez and Borini a thing or two about scoring and that itself is already value adding.

This post has been edited by redkop63: Sep 2 2012, 11:35 PM

That being the case either BR has bought the wrong player, a winger instead of Borini or he got his tactics wrong, either way he plays a part in it.

Looked at those goals again and the gooners were playing tiki taka with a purpose and broked us down effectively while we're trying so hard with our tiki-taka but heading nowhere.

I think the current problem lies with the much hyped tiki-taka. Tike - taka from the way i sees can only work if the midfield and the forward has a near to perfect understanding of each other. At the moment we are disarrayed as anything we can imagine, let alone to play the tiki-taka ala Barcelona. Just abandone the bloody tiki-taka, get back to route one and employ the pass and move game and put the opposition defence under constance and continuous pressure, instead of knocking the ball aimlessly around. Some said give Brendan time to build-up his brand of tiki - taka, but time is not on our side we're not in the conference league that BR has the privilege of time to do so, this is the world of EPL.

Suarez also another one, always dribble with his head looking on the ground. Someone must give him a tight slap to remind him that soccer is a team's game and he's expected to look up and pass to the next player in a better scoring to score instead of trying to dribble into goal everytime the ball is at his feet.

Seriously, we need to break-up the Suarez-Stevie combo, it has gone stale already and it's too predicable and opponents already have a plan in hand to counter that.

If the style of play doesn't change fast we'll have worrying times ahead and we could be rooted at the bottom of the table comes end of Sept. Call it a knee-jerk, knee-jerk now better than later.

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Added on September 3, 2012, 8:31 amYes our midfield is hopeless, not making the effort to shoot and when they do it ends up anywhere everywhere except the goal. For instace Shelvey, when he shoots most probably we'll have to provide hig a rugby goal post to score, nothinh has improved since last season. Just wonder what do they do in training. At the rate things are going, if we widen the goal post by 2 feet to the left and right we'll still most probably fail to score.

This post has been edited by redkop63: Sep 3 2012, 08:40 AM