lol.. i dont anything from kissing his ass, just speaking my mind. I dont have a problem with a lightened crank pulley, or a balanced lightened crank pulley. The problem is :

tons of aftermarket parts with no history or proven RnD
some are undersized, some are lightened, some lightened and undersized, some with harmonic balancer, some with dodgy looking rubber damper
The question is, do you want to take the risk of running your car with a product with no history or proven RnD or engineering skills?

Who are mythelogy? try googling them, no history..maybe its a proper Engineering house with tons of credentials and racing designs under their belt, but think about it..if they did, im sure it will be plastered all over LYN, ZTH, have their own wiki etc..

Who are Jasma? http://jasmajapan.com/index.php website is jasmajapan, parts made in pahang?

maddriver can use it in his "stock" wira/satria end of the day he owns a workshop, so if his car gets f***ed, no big deal. Same story with drex, but I got nothing against them. In fact I respect their contribution to providing knowledge in an open forum for discussion. If you followed drex and guans fotopic last time, you will know these guys are very serious and smart in what they do. BUT i will never go to their workshop because I had some bad experience there. End of the day no hard feelings, maddriver and drex business are still going strong irrespective of what I say or my clientele. You just gotta decide for yourself if you wanna put your trust in watever product in the market.

I can honestly say im not a car modding god. but ive worked in a workshop and I have a very strong engineering background. As a part of this online forum, im sharing my knowledge and thoughts, bottom line is its your F**king car and money. I always answer questions as unbiased as possible. Should I change wira to rear disc brake? i tell you the pros, the cons you f**kin decide. Thats what brains are for, to be used

edit : typo

This post has been edited by ryan_hustler: Jan 31 2012, 11:20 AM

even if i own a workshop and my car gets fu(ked up, it is a big deal...... spare parts don't grow on trees...... still have to buy, still have to fix. i don't blindly put parts on my car. got to be confident with the design before i test it out. can't say much about that "j" brand as i have not used it, but mytheology's design is exactly what i was looking for in a lcp. as for googling, remember the days before the internet? how did colin chapman start out? of hks for that matter. these all started out small, good shit spreads really fast, so there.......

Guys, Stick with the topic, don't go personal and start calling out names. Dragging down workshops is not the game here.

Well wish to share my thoughts on LCP. For this purpose, I will be speaking from a point of view of a consumer and as a layman who is not as highly educated as you.

I am personally using a mythelogy LCP. To me, the problems you outlined are, with the greatest respect, highly irrelevant and unfounded when it comes to LCP per se. To begin with, the market is filled with so many labels / brands of any product of a similar nature. Regardless of whether it's an aftermarket LCP / exhaust / intake / or any other aftermarket performance parts, certain brands will boast about its long history and/or proven-dyno. That is how the market works, when there is good business opportunity, there will be competition wherein different business entities strive to distinguish their products from the rest. In this regard, the consumers will be spoilt with choices.

Now, you pointed out that there are tons of aftermarket parts with no history or proven RnD. If you ask me, I don't give a damn as to the history of any given product. When I am deciding between different brands, the utmost consideration in my mind, would be these, 'are they effective, do they work, would it serve my purpose?'. I would ask people whom I deem trustworthy and do my own little research before making my end decision. In other words, the 'history' or the lack of it, will not be crucial. Afterall, we are interested in the present and not the past. Most consumers wouldn't be bothered if any brand has a long history, what excites them are innovation, something which could improve their current station, for whatever it is. Hence it is not uncommon for business to fall despite having a long history, when you cannot keep up with innovation, you're just out of the race- simple. On the other hand, you may have a 'good' history but it can all be ruined overnight. Therefore I am of the humble view that a long line of history or a lineage which can be traced back to Alexander the Great, is not an issue, what more, a problem.

As for proven RnD, I don't know to what extent you mean. When you talk about RnD, are you comparing aftermarkets RnD to the amount of RnD done by car manufacturers? If yes, it's hard for most aftermarket players to compare with major car manufacturers. Afterall, both their focus doesn't cross path in the strictest sense of the word. In any event, most of the aftermarket products are fitted and tested in their own way before making their way into the market. Unless the products are sold by those 'fly-by night' company, a genuine business will not risk ruining their reputation and subjecting themselves to product liability action. Hence, this is also not much of a problem. If this can be perceived as a problem, then I would say that this problem is evident everywhere - many unscrupulous businesses sells all sorts of products which poses safety hazard, be it food, electronics, furnitures etc. Hence the concept of 'caveat emptor'. It's widespread. Something that is understood without having to be brought up.

It amuses me when you talk about googling mythelogy and wiki. For me, if they have wiki, then good as I can gain more info, if none, would that be a problem? Seriously, there are good stuffs or I should put it, 'hidden gems' out there which doesn't have wiki or history. Hahah, seriously, who cares about having wiki or history? I think goodwill is what one should look for rather than wiki or history. My apologies if you hold wiki or history in high regard, cause I feel that it's an irrelevant consideration.

To your question, 'do you want to take the risk of running your car with a product with no history or proven RnD or engineering skills?'.
Well, I'd say that modding car is all about taking calculated risk. Normally one mod their car the best they can in their own way and within their own budget. Some products don't work, some do. We don't know for sure which will work or which exhaust will give the most gain etc. What we can do is ask around and research. As said earlier, most consumers doesn't care about history or proven RnD etc. They are mostly sold when a particular item is proven to give certain % of performance gain and/or certain improvement in drivability, and that improvement and/or gain will not be harmful to the engine. Again, prior to the mod, consumers would never know for sure as they can only base their decision on dyno charts and representation of the salesman, and then confirm it with their own dyno run.

Speaking from my own experience, I have installed an extractor. The extractor has a wiki? No. Has a history? No. Price wise - ok. Quality wise - ok. Feedback from other buyers - good. With that, I decided to install the exhaust. Was satisfied with the performance gain as shown on the dyno chart. So to me, it works and a risk worth taking. Even with that, perhaps there may be other unknown exhaust which performs better?

As for the Mythelogy LCP, i couldn't find the wiki too, nor any history. But I heard relatively good reviews and some bad ones. Decided to get it. Enjoyed slight improvement in driveability, as for reliability, will see how it goes. Risk taken? Yes. Satisfied? Yes. Is that a problem? Perhaps no. No Wiki? Who cares?

Well yeah, that's my thoughts. I also feel that if you're scared of this and that, then don't mod anything. Secondly, if you're concerned with wiki, just remember that it's an online encyclopedia that anyone can edit. Thirdly, if history of performance parts are important, don't keep holding on to past glory(ies).

My humble two cents.

Well said and well written.. i honestly appreciate it

back to the context of LCPs, why do I or others place RnD and proper engineering on a high pedestal when anyone can make a good performance part? Simple, and let me take you up on your extractor story.
I have reasonable welding skills and I previously handmade a turbo manifold out of high grade,heavy gauge buttweld fittings. Was it hard? very. Did it work? perfectly..in fact it was neater and i put in a considerable effort in calculating the fluid dynamics of exhaust gases in an effort to maximize scavenging effect. After roughly a year and a half, a small leak appeared in the weld joint and started leaving toxic exhaust gases. I check my engine bay regularly and diagnosed the problem and fixed it. Speaking to a few other friends, they have purchased aftermarket extractors which had similar leaks and they brushed it off. This is serious shit. If you breathe in the toxic carbon monoxide gases over a prolonged period of time in a confined environment, you will DIE..no doubts, no second chances. Therefore should there be an importance in choosing a quality extractor from a cap ayam one? I would say yes..

What would the average lifespan of an engine be? Lets say 100,000km of hard driving before being overhauled. thats roughly 5 years give or take. Buying a half baked poorly designed part for instant gratification would not justify the possibilities of something going wrong. How would an unbalanced crank react spinning at 6000rpm? Engine malfunction? I can life with that..Could be worse.. does anyone care to educate the general public of these problems that may occur? Ask a mechanic how to increase your HP, he will say get a stroker it, janji laju..what are the side effects? Tada punya, saya sudah buat untuk banyak kereta..modifying is not something you wanna take on without proper research, reputable products and sincere mechanics

Ive seen engine blocks with holes the size of a cigarette box because a bolt worked itself loose and shot out of the block..if it carries enough force it can go thru your firewall and kill you..it could hit a pedestrian and kill him or her..your car could sieze and hit another car, a motorcycle or a pedestrian. I find it rather irresponsible to say who cares when your decisions affect innocent unrelated people. no RnD? who cares! no QA? who cares! no QC? who cares!

I guess its all fun and games until someone takes a chunk of 6000rpms worth of poorly designed crank pulley in the face. would you still care then?

Use a product for a few months and everyones a brand ambassador. Why do we need quality, research, design, maths,physics,engineering when Muthu my trusty metalworker can turn a chunk of steel into a car part? Who cares? Malaysia boleh

i installed the pulley at 230+k km..... my engines now close to 330+k km...... still good, never changed anything on the bottom end yet......

brand ambassador? no, just sharing my experiences...... i don't get paid......

Speaking of history and reliability, I am not sure if I should take out the 7-year old Mythelogy LCP in my 170k km car to try to make some damage on it. I too don't like the fact that I can't sell more than once to the same guy. Proton so smart, the vendors are still making money selling replacement crank pulleys to the old sagas/iswaras.

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Added on

Interesting. Come, lets talk about that openly, shall we? First, start helping me to recall who you are.

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Added on
Some how, that sounds to me, as if, you think you are the only educated guy in the forum. Good to have self-confidence. I admire that.

This post has been edited by drexchan: Feb 18 2012, 01:14 AM

Hmm.... It would be interesting to know how do u calculate the scavenging effect on a TURBO manifold when we're expecting the turbo manifold pressure to be positive due to the restriction of the turbine fins. Unless ur turbine sucks in exhaust rather than the turbine wheel is recovering the energy and heat from the exhaust... CFD..?

Bro, actually The best tubular manifolds cracks in time... Had a Full race imported... But still cracks after 2 years...
U can know it from here.

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarre...ength_manifolds

And also, u're talking about confined space... Not sure how do you define confined space with CO. In your cabin..? Ur leaking exhaust would be blended into the atmosphere before it even reaches you firewall. Needn't to talk about it entering your cabin. Worry more on the CO2 u are exhaling every seconds reducing the O2 concentration. Even then, The Old Japanese women and a young girl that was trapped in a TOYOTA Mark for 2 days inside a non running car sealed by water were still breathing.

Sorry I don't mean to be rude. I apologize in advance...



Meaning to say the best would be leaving the engine as stock. Cause the best machines available in town for balancing a crank is the factory itself... Perodua uses 16 process with different machines to process a raw cast into a balanced crank. Same goes to Proton. But though the crank was well balanced, but the sad thing is, the pistons and rods aren't.

BTW, CNC billet cut aluminium has the least imbalanced possibility. Well, don't shoot me for this. This is what Fidanza(being one of the best aftermarket flywheels brand) claimed in their certificate of purchase.



I've know of the danger of broken flywheels going through firewall due to the momentum of the high speed rotation. That's why FIA/NHRA rules says it's necessary to install scatter shield. But of course there are possibilities of conrod flying out too... Seen one on my frend's drag car during his launch at SDB.

Most of the engines blocks with holes caused by conned rods were caused by a few things.

1) Hydrolocks aka engine masuk air. There was a post somewhere on a Stock GEN2. Search around.
2) Over rev without proper engineering assembly/parts/torque/etc.



Haha.... That would sure be painful...

This has to go back to the demand and supply. How would poorly made JXXMA products survives if there's no demand. In fact, they have never claimed their parts have quality. It's back to the customers that kept looking for cheaper and cheaper stuff. Imagine, so many complains on JXXMA product and they are still surviving.... Simple, the appreciation of engineering has longed be forgotten... Price matters more... Maybe not for you and me... But for the majority of the market.

Cheers bro... have a nice day.

Love using my Mythelogy LCP....even with bigger A/C compressor, it still feels ok. At least 90% of the load was 'dispersed'

For me as long the LCP is balanced & dampened is more than good enough.

wah !! speed2horison mali liaw . lolz
@ryan hustler u still havent answer my question , i only see alot of yapping and barking , and my older question i ask earlier why hks , cusco , knightsport , gfb , skunk 2 racing , aem , sells lcp ? no 1 answer me , instead i got a flywheels with spring , why does this big shot aftermarket made aftermarket lcp if its a risk ?

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Added on February 18, 2012, 5:50 amwah !! speed2horison mali liaw . lolz
@ryan hustler u still havent answer my question , i only see alot of yapping and barking , and my older question i ask earlier why hks , cusco , knightsport , gfb , skunk 2 racing , aem , sells lcp ? no 1 answer me , instead i got a flywheels with spring , why does this big shot aftermarket made aftermarket lcp if its a risk ?


This post has been edited by sinister_sid: Feb 18 2012, 05:50 AM

i want to buy and try out mytheology LCP just for the sake of that additional rubber dampener also cannot since they stopped producing for iswara model

waaa so many things that i kenot brain here. so long story short, change to lcp if you want the engine to shake shake and goes kaboom and pew pew ka?
sorry i is veli the noob.
so best is use stock and dun modifait the car?

Custom made

sorry to hijack ...

Hi bro Quazacolt, i still have a new Mythelogy LCP for 4G15 MMC, will suit your car nicely ... last piece on the market

pm me if you intereested ...

Regards.

Why does Garrett market a bolt on kit for the Evo X which exceeds the power handling capacity of the clutch at stock and markets it as a stock replacement?

Why do all the major for their first iterations of the X CAI all have issues with long term ECU compensation?

Why does Turbosmart market a replacement BOV that when vents to atmosphere ruins the AFR calculations of the ECU and can wreck the engine?

Why does Seibon market a carbon fiber hood that increases the likelihood of pedestrian death in the event of crash?

It is up to the end user to figure out a risk versus reward thing. Just that in the case of an LCP which concentrates only on weight, the reward is outweighed by the risk, because the reward is so little for the average driver. Simple as that and that has always been my personal argument.

Just because they're all famous brands, doesn't mean they don't play with risk. A lot of SAU members do not recommend the installation of the HKS lightened cam pulleys on the RB25/26 due to run out, so they just don't buy it. But but but it is from HKS, sure good one!

Even the likes of Cosworth can make crap sometimes for the sake of money

Let's talk about the risk, and show some photo for the benefit of all.

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Added on February 18, 2012, 2:47 pm

Risk?

This post has been edited by drexchan: Feb 18 2012, 02:47 PM

some say yes......

alot still using Jasma brand without problem.. who dare to sell out in the market sure will no problem la. sure do research and follow design from famous brand in the market.

unless they plan to shut down they company just like that.

Sometimes problems do not come out right away from using the products even for 1-2years.. Stock engines built by manufacturers incorporate a lot of tolerance into each design of the components to accommodate for manufacturing variances and to ensure maximum reliability of an engine.
What aftermarket parts do is to reduce the tolerance for the stock engine and as a result from the reduction of tolerance there is a boost in performance. Since small time manufacturers manufactures in small quantity but at a slightly higher cost on material. To negate the higher cost and still maintain a profit margin, its compensated by the lack of R&D investment in product development.. Instead the R&D invested as mentioned is for the product copying process on the best and most efficient tooling method..

In Malaysia there are no such thing as product reliability guarantee and also no insurance coverage on the failure of product that u installed.
A person who does mods to his engine will in fact not just do 1 thing only such as installing a LCP, but will also include other mods such as performance plug, cam gears, piggyback ECU etc .. So if the engine indeed do fails, most of the ppl will be blaiming the base engine itself for not being reliable instead of blaming it on the cheap and lowly engineered products that are being used. Cos in a general consumers mind what I mod into my car is definitely right. Thats why we have Jasma users.

This post has been edited by ZenGTMM: Feb 18 2012, 06:07 PM

I don't think you understand Sid's argument. The point was "these companies don't have proper R&D" and the brands he quoted are all big names whom are well known to have their own R&D done on products they sell.

Anyway, regarding the discussion on the LCP and harmonic dampening - this is subjective. Race engines are stressed very much more than standard engines like yours and mine and hence their tolerance is very very small, which is why harmonic vibrations will affect a race engine. Stock Evo engines come with engine balancers to counter those harmonic vibrations that the engineers couldn't offset (probably at a reasonable costing) but aftermarket balancer delete kits are everywhere. Have yet to hear about any engines blowing up because of the balancer delete kit. Friend of mine had his Airtrek Turbo rebuilt, balanced and blueprinted. Removed the balancer and that was nearly 6 years ago, his Airtrek is still running fine. Basically I think it's about tolerance and how much is acceptable depending on what the application is. A stock engine or even a modded engine will not reach that level of sensitivity.

You deal with large manufacturing machines and I don't blame you for wanting to follow the same concept as those machines. For you any failure from these machines = money loss which is never acceptable in any organisation. So every meticulous detail you will consider - including harmonic dampening. Our street cars don't need this luxury and I honestly doubt a loose bolt will fly out and kill anyone anytime soon just because of supposed 'lack-of-R&D'. Malaysia is similar to China, if there is a product that's doing well, it'll be copied and rebranded. Does it mean there's no R&D? Not necessarily. The original product might have already done it and the copies are just leeching off the original idea since patents in M'sia are pretty much pointless.

I've been using a Myth pulley for close to 5 years now on my car. I don't own a workshop, I don't own a car parts shop, I am not a mechanic, I am not an engineer, I am only just an enthusiast. Whats more mine is a modified pulley which allows me to advance my ignition timing without touching the crank sensor (I'm using a VDO setup).