I don't think you understand Sid's argument. The point was "these companies don't have proper R&D" and the brands he quoted are all big names whom are well known to have their own R&D done on products they sell.

Anyway, regarding the discussion on the LCP and harmonic dampening - this is subjective. Race engines are stressed very much more than standard engines like yours and mine and hence their tolerance is very very small, which is why harmonic vibrations will affect a race engine. Stock Evo engines come with engine balancers to counter those harmonic vibrations that the engineers couldn't offset (probably at a reasonable costing) but aftermarket balancer delete kits are everywhere. Have yet to hear about any engines blowing up because of the balancer delete kit. Friend of mine had his Airtrek Turbo rebuilt, balanced and blueprinted. Removed the balancer and that was nearly 6 years ago, his Airtrek is still running fine. Basically I think it's about tolerance and how much is acceptable depending on what the application is. A stock engine or even a modded engine will not reach that level of sensitivity.

You deal with large manufacturing machines and I don't blame you for wanting to follow the same concept as those machines. For you any failure from these machines = money loss which is never acceptable in any organisation. So every meticulous detail you will consider - including harmonic dampening. Our street cars don't need this luxury and I honestly doubt a loose bolt will fly out and kill anyone anytime soon just because of supposed 'lack-of-R&D'. Malaysia is similar to China, if there is a product that's doing well, it'll be copied and rebranded. Does it mean there's no R&D? Not necessarily. The original product might have already done it and the copies are just leeching off the original idea since patents in M'sia are pretty much pointless.

I've been using a Myth pulley for close to 5 years now on my car. I don't own a workshop, I don't own a car parts shop, I am not a mechanic, I am not an engineer, I am only just an enthusiast. Whats more mine is a modified pulley which allows me to advance my ignition timing without touching the crank sensor (I'm using a VDO setup).

The reality is that big names will just as easily skimp on the risk if they feel that there's enough money to be made.

True. So that they can afford to fund engineers who thinks their funders are stupid.

Why does Garrett market a bolt on kit for the Evo X which exceeds the power handling capacity of the clutch at stock and markets it as a stock replacement?

Why do all the major for their first iterations of the X CAI all have issues with long term ECU compensation?

Why does Turbosmart market a replacement BOV that when vents to atmosphere ruins the AFR calculations of the ECU and can wreck the engine?

Why does Seibon market a carbon fiber hood that increases the likelihood of pedestrian death in the event of crash?

It is up to the end user to figure out a risk versus reward thing. Just that in the case of an LCP which concentrates only on weight, the reward is outweighed by the risk, because the reward is so little for the average driver. Simple as that and that has always been my personal argument.

Just because they're all famous brands, doesn't mean they don't play with risk. A lot of SAU members do not recommend the installation of the HKS lightened cam pulleys on the RB25/26 due to run out, so they just don't buy it. But but but it is from HKS, sure good one!

Even the likes of Cosworth can make crap sometimes for the sake of money 

Also,some well known 4G63 master refer Eric Hsu as Tooner

I've been using a Myth pulley for close to 5 years now on my car. I don't own a workshop, I don't own a car parts shop, I am not a mechanic, I am not an engineer, I am only just an enthusiast. Whats more mine is a modified pulley which allows me to advance my ignition timing without touching the crank sensor (I'm using a VDO setup).

alo alo alo..........pls stick to topic... d TS is askin for his puny 4g15 engines........ not hoola boolaa.... for dats kind of engine size, harmonic dampening or not, its not abig effects.there is nothin wrong replacing it wit aftermarket crank pulley.... in reality it may onli give 1-3whp, BUT for puny engine , it means ALOT. for monster engines, safety is more of a concern ab harmonic dampening yadyada...

where d TS.... ask him kolos d topic lo...

Eric Tsu as in the MotorIQ / ImportTuner dude?

Why does Garrett market a bolt on kit for the Evo X which exceeds the power handling capacity of the clutch at stock and markets it as a stock replacement?

Why do all the major for their first iterations of the X CAI all have issues with long term ECU compensation?

Why does Turbosmart market a replacement BOV that when vents to atmosphere ruins the AFR calculations of the ECU and can wreck the engine?

Why does Seibon market a carbon fiber hood that increases the likelihood of pedestrian death in the event of crash?

It is up to the end user to figure out a risk versus reward thing. Just that in the case of an LCP which concentrates only on weight, the reward is outweighed by the risk, because the reward is so little for the average driver. Simple as that and that has always been my personal argument.

Just because they're all famous brands, doesn't mean they don't play with risk. A lot of SAU members do not recommend the installation of the HKS lightened cam pulleys on the RB25/26 due to run out, so they just don't buy it. But but but it is from HKS, sure good one!

Even the likes of Cosworth can make crap sometimes for the sake of money 

alot still using Jasma brand without problem.. who dare to sell out in the market sure will no problem la. sure do research and follow design from famous brand in the market.

unless they plan to shut down they company just like that.

I don't think you understand Sid's argument. The point was "these companies don't have proper R&D" and the brands he quoted are all big names whom are well known to have their own R&D done on products they sell.

Anyway, regarding the discussion on the LCP and harmonic dampening - this is subjective. Race engines are stressed very much more than standard engines like yours and mine and hence their tolerance is very very small, which is why harmonic vibrations will affect a race engine. Stock Evo engines come with engine balancers to counter those harmonic vibrations that the engineers couldn't offset (probably at a reasonable costing) but aftermarket balancer delete kits are everywhere. Have yet to hear about any engines blowing up because of the balancer delete kit. Friend of mine had his Airtrek Turbo rebuilt, balanced and blueprinted. Removed the balancer and that was nearly 6 years ago, his Airtrek is still running fine. Basically I think it's about tolerance and how much is acceptable depending on what the application is. A stock engine or even a modded engine will not reach that level of sensitivity.

You deal with large manufacturing machines and I don't blame you for wanting to follow the same concept as those machines. For you any failure from these machines = money loss which is never acceptable in any organisation. So every meticulous detail you will consider - including harmonic dampening. Our street cars don't need this luxury and I honestly doubt a loose bolt will fly out and kill anyone anytime soon just because of supposed 'lack-of-R&D'. Malaysia is similar to China, if there is a product that's doing well, it'll be copied and rebranded. Does it mean there's no R&D? Not necessarily. The original product might have already done it and the copies are just leeching off the original idea since patents in M'sia are pretty much pointless.

I've been using a Myth pulley for close to 5 years now on my car. I don't own a workshop, I don't own a car parts shop, I am not a mechanic, I am not an engineer, I am only just an enthusiast. Whats more mine is a modified pulley which allows me to advance my ignition timing without touching the crank sensor (I'm using a VDO setup).

I think his argument is that if these aren't reliable, why do big names make them. The reality is that big names will just as easily skimp on the risk if they feel that there's enough money to be made. If companies can put melamine into baby formulas, well, you get where I'm going lol. After all, caveat emptor 

Always assume worst case scenario, that way you'll always be ahead of things. For your friend's Airtrek, I can bring up a Evo 9 that had a cam pulley failure that resulted in total valve loss, but of course that was a bred monster of 500 HP. Even mine runs 380 HP with RON98 which is way outta spec. This is an even bigger issue with blocks where the bore versus stroke isn't square, where the effects of harmonics stack up with that of the velocity of the pistons. As a process eng once told me, that piss you take into the sea may turn into that tsunami that wrecks some dude's house.

My assumption is that if you're going to get an LCP to gain more power, you're not only increasing the stress on the engine by introducing more power, but you're taking away something that decreases stress. In high performance scenarios, the usual is to toughen up the crank pulley while lightening the cam pulleys, so in a way it goes against the way I figured things should be done, hence the bias.

Probably just me being anal lah. I mean my car has lab cal-ed torque wrench and a set of torque drivers to fit everything up. It just bothers me because I feel that there are many places to get more evident and effective power out 

Also,some well known 4G63 master refer Eric Hsu as Tooner

True. So that they can afford to fund engineers who thinks their funders are stupid.

Haha... Sounds funny la you...

1)  Garrett stated something in the box... Please read the box and manual properly... Then start talking.
2) X CAI. I don't get what u meant.
3) A proper CF hood can break, but not disintegrate. Read your fiber and matrix.
4) The HKS camgear is the only camgear that will bit snap your belt due to sharp edges and material hardness. Also read the HKS manual properly on the maintenance and lifetime. Also the disclaimer.

RON98..? Please show me how you justify your RON98...? Unless you show me the container that states RON98. Then it's fine.... I think the best best person to ask is Drex Chan instead of you due to his educational background...

Pee and tsunami... Haha... I'm still convinced that u're a funny guy...

LCP does not gain more power... It only reduce the inertia for the engine to accelerate better for response. Please remember... If u're going for a true beast under the hood... Then, we should be talking about fluidmpr... It's one thing u should never forget. Not your OEM. I had my OEM Crank Pulley misaligned due to rubber gave way... I'm not the only case... I also have friends disintegrating the OEM crank pulley.

Calibrated torque wrench for engine assembly... Correct for the head assembly and partial correct for the short block assembly.
Why do you need plastic gauge when u can fully trust your TW.

Of course there are much more area u can extract power. It's the matter of cost...
Ok, I still think you should be replacing Rowan A. cause u're truly a funny guy.

I think his argument is that if these aren't reliable, why do big names make them. The reality is that big names will just as easily skimp on the risk if they feel that there's enough money to be made. If companies can put melamine into baby formulas, well, you get where I'm going lol. After all, caveat emptor 

Always assume worst case scenario, that way you'll always be ahead of things. For your friend's Airtrek, I can bring up a Evo 9 that had a cam pulley failure that resulted in total valve loss, but of course that was a bred monster of 500 HP. Even mine runs 380 HP with RON98 which is way outta spec. This is an even bigger issue with blocks where the bore versus stroke isn't square, where the effects of harmonics stack up with that of the velocity of the pistons. As a process eng once told me, that piss you take into the sea may turn into that tsunami that wrecks some dude's house.

My assumption is that if you're going to get an LCP to gain more power, you're not only increasing the stress on the engine by introducing more power, but you're taking away something that decreases stress. In high performance scenarios, the usual is to toughen up the crank pulley while lightening the cam pulleys, so in a way it goes against the way I figured things should be done, hence the bias.

Probably just me being anal lah. I mean my car has lab cal-ed torque wrench and a set of torque drivers to fit everything up. It just bothers me because I feel that there are many places to get more evident and effective power out 

1) do you think consumer are that stupid or the word "LEGAL ACTION" does not exist ?? u think those big company rather risk their name for a small profit like this ? u think people around the world are like malaysia's JASMA ???
2)cam pulley failure ? wooooo perhaps HKS = HONG KONG SPORT FROM CHINA that been mistaken for HKS japan ? , imitation in malaysia no need me to write out load here la , every1 knows or perhaps the mechanic/tuner farked up ? 

3)there are a saying , once u start to bump up the horses from ur engine or changing stuff that u deemed better , u already increase the risk , if u can bump the power the way u did do you think those  engineer that do r&d at the factory dint figure it out ? why doesnt they do it ? u bump ur evo X to 380 horses easily like u claim then why Mitsubishi doesn't made the evo 380 horses from the factory ?  yes u can say cost , enviromental but doesnt u realise 1 major point ? RELIABILITY , DUHHHHHH 

4) WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH lab cal-ed torque whench wor ,
i wait the world greatest invention to announce the torque whench of ur to be the greatest idea/gadget to human kind
then those people that massed produce plastic gauge and feeler gauge can shut down thier factory go home eat maggi liaw 

lol u really a joke 
u make me laugh like a idiot 
WAKAKAKAKAKAKAKAKAKAK   

1. Now do you seriously believe that companies don't take risk for money? . There are first version big brake kits out there from big names that screw so badly with the ABS systems the cars are undrivable. During my younger days, I used to drive a P38 Rangy, man that shit BECM and security system was bugged to hell, using your logic, would Range Rover build a shit car and done more testing?

2. I don't live in Malaysia. And I base it on trust that a man who spends a crapload of his money on cars would try very hard to make sure what he got was genuine. Maybe it was the mechanic's fault, maybe it was fake, but when a lot of people say the same thing. Well, err on the side of caution.

3. Mitsubishi in the UK makes the FQ400, 400 horsies. From the factory. . Aslo available in the FQ-300 and FQ-360 flavours. Also from the factory. I'm keen to hear your argument in regards to this

4. I'm not sure how you can equate a torque wrench to a feeler gauge, they measure different things.

1. Now do you seriously believe that companies don't take risk for money? . There are first version big brake kits out there from big names that screw so badly with the ABS systems the cars are undrivable. During my younger days, I used to drive a P38 Rangy, man that shit BECM and security system was bugged to hell, using your logic, would Range Rover build a shit car and done more testing?

2. I don't live in Malaysia. And I base it on trust that a man who spends a crapload of his money on cars would try very hard to make sure what he got was genuine. Maybe it was the mechanic's fault, maybe it was fake, but when a lot of people say the same thing. Well, err on the side of caution.

3. Mitsubishi in the UK makes the FQ400, 400 horsies. From the factory. . Aslo available in the FQ-300 and FQ-360 flavours. Also from the factory. I'm keen to hear your argument in regards to this

4. I'm not sure how you can equate a torque wrench to a feeler gauge, they measure different things.

1)if for those small company yes , but what is big company ? , those company establish their brand for more than 30 just to ruin thier reputation ? as for ur range rover its like proton , what to argue , car manufacturer does make mistake , one year or two years back ? toyota massive recall ? toyota wor , big brand wor ? mitsu back in 90's ? rusty roof , doddy auto gb ? lancia back in 80's rust issue , chevy in 50's unreilable auto gb ?????

2) i see u agree with me , thank you

3)can you remind me the extra money have to top up for it ? hmmmmmmmmm ? with the money u add for it i can say many tuner outside can proudly get more power from it but it sell wells and people buys it because it the money u paid for the extra enginnering  , so whats ur arguement ?

4) may i ?

u dint wrote that ? let me highlight 1 more time

yah maybe its me that is not very well educated
but i understand from that sentence is that as u assemble ur engine bottoms up using ur lab cab torque wrench   

1) If it states it in the box, then it should be stated outside the box right? Marketing I feel should be honest. Or at least it proves my position of "buyer beware"

2) Generally the Evolution X cold air intake

3) The idea is, does it break and crumple according to standards set out?

4) If I sold a dangerous product and put a disclaimer there, it still makes me liable for damage. That is the law.

RON98? Container? Me car actually needs RON98 to run. Don't ask me why, the Japanese told me to do it.



Be it fluidampr, RossTuffbond or ATI, I think the idea is the same. The OEM can take a strong beating before it needs an upgrade and they put it there at stock for a reason lah. Of course this is subject to design, for example the pulleys on an Evo are nylon, while those on a Hyundai are alu, the latter definitely lasts longer.

Logically you'd gain a little bit more power in addition to response lah due to less weight, but I wouldn't believe it is much

Erryone has their side of the argument, well no point in making it hectic mate. We're all just stating our 2 cents, no point getting hyped up, just enjoy yer drive. I'm in a good mood after a run up and down The Panorama in Tallai. God, that was awesomest drive ever.

1) do you think consumer are that stupid or the word "LEGAL ACTION" does not exist ?? u think those big company rather risk their name for a small profit like this ? u think people around the world are like malaysia's JASMA ???
2)cam pulley failure ? wooooo perhaps HKS = HONG KONG SPORT FROM CHINA that been mistaken for HKS japan ? , imitation in malaysia no need me to write out load here la , every1 knows or perhaps the mechanic/tuner farked up ? 

3)there are a saying , once u start to bump up the horses from ur engine or changing stuff that u deemed better , u already increase the risk , if u can bump the power the way u did do you think those  engineer that do r&d at the factory dint figure it out ? why doesnt they do it ? u bump ur evo X to 380 horses easily like u claim then why Mitsubishi doesn't made the evo 380 horses from the factory ?  yes u can say cost , enviromental but doesnt u realise 1 major point ? RELIABILITY , DUHHHHHH 

4) WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH lab cal-ed torque whench wor ,
i wait the world greatest invention to announce the torque whench of ur to be the greatest idea/gadget to human kind
then those people that massed produce plastic gauge and feeler gauge can shut down thier factory go home eat maggi liaw 

lol u really a joke 
u make me laugh like a idiot 
WAKAKAKAKAKAKAKAKAKAK   

1. Now do you seriously believe that companies don't take risk for money? . There are first version big brake kits out there from big names that screw so badly with the ABS systems the cars are undrivable. During my younger days, I used to drive a P38 Rangy, man that shit BECM and security system was bugged to hell, using your logic, would Range Rover build a shit car and done more testing?

2. I don't live in Malaysia. And I base it on trust that a man who spends a crapload of his money on cars would try very hard to make sure what he got was genuine. Maybe it was the mechanic's fault, maybe it was fake, but when a lot of people say the same thing. Well, err on the side of caution.

3. Mitsubishi in the UK makes the FQ400, 400 horsies. From the factory. . Aslo available in the FQ-300 and FQ-360 flavours. Also from the factory. I'm keen to hear your argument in regards to this

4. I'm not sure how you can equate a torque wrench to a feeler gauge, they measure different things.

Which also written in their website.
1)obviously big companies will take risk for profit. But there's always a balance between profit and reputation. The risk are majorly on the production vs demand.

2) agreed. Fake stuff has bad QCs...

3) Fq series. Let's check who is the company that provides the warranty. MMC or ralliart??? They are different division.
4) does the torque of te main studs affect the clearance??? Hahaha.... So, do you torque the bottom according to the torque or the clearance... Get ur hands on my friend. Then u'll know why I say that...

So, have u been pumping RON98??? Where??? Thanks for your information. Cuz we don't get it in Malaysia. I detuned my aftermarket ECUs to take so called RON95.