Thats why I admitted it and I am willing to pay RM40 for the acc

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Added on December 5, 2011, 6:33 pmI respect you and will follow your advice

This post has been edited by tashfinsheikh: Dec 5 2011, 06:33 PM

paying him extra RM40 for the acc will NOT solve this problem bro. the problem now is, u're not willing to buy all his other games like what u've agreed. from the conversation, i only see that, he said there are 2 sets of EoJ. 1 is RM80, which comes with the cards, another 1 is RM60, which is only the game. and he agreed to sell both to u at a price of RM60 each, a RM20 discount to you, which is fair enough i think. and u have not ask anything about the acc to him too, so it can't be all his fault, his only fault will be not telling u that it doesnt come with the acc. and all the options u let him choose, isn't fair IMO. all the benefits is on your side. either he sell u the acc for RM40, refund for the 2 EoJ and refund everything... what about the original agreement between both of you? u agreed to buy everything from him... i honestly say that, i'm neutral, but i think ur options to solve the problem i abit biased... no offence, just my opinion.

This post has been edited by Ace98: Dec 5 2011, 06:35 PM

I think Frogcat feels "cheated" because both parties initially dealt based on the terms that buyer must take all the games specified in list (excluding the games seller is keeping), so he will give discount for buying in bulk. When buyer mentioned later that he will only take the games not yet owned, this has broken the promise made earlier.

About the EOJ misunderstanding, I'm not sure if tashfinsheikh asked about the inclusion of accessories (I assume aso means accessories). If yes, Frogcat could have thought "aso" means "also" and only mentioned about the cards. If I got this wrong, please don't bash me XD.


The question is if the EOJ issue never took place, will tashfinsheikh still take the next batches as promised? From what the chat log shows, you did not seem to have that intention which is breaking the T&C in the first place.

UPDATE: Posted a bit late, but same point as Ace98.

This post has been edited by valkyrie5034: Dec 5 2011, 06:45 PM

That means he didn't gave me RM60 price for all games he will give that RM60 price to anyone who will buy more than one.....

Hence Tash why I asked if u have anything that says frog offered the acc and cards to u for rm 80. U can just offer back to him rm 40 for the acc because that was not part of the deal in the beginning.

Even when I agreed to buy everything that night he still sold 3 titles to people



This post has been edited by tashfinsheikh: Dec 5 2011, 06:50 PM

hmm... is the 3 titles included in the list of games that he's selling to you?

Yeap, he then changed the list and give me another list..

A complete set of EOJ come with 1 Mat, 1 Stand, 1 PS Eye, 1 Game & 1 set of Cards (Booster Pack) with 34 cards in total.

Point this out with evidence & I believe you can't, cause I never said that.

Like Ace98 & valkyrie5034 bro said, your options only base on your own good, & until now, you don't even willing to answer & take responsible on the rest of the 1st batch, which u did promise to get it on the next day, or on the Sat (3rd December).

If you want to solve this & cut off these crap, do it in a win win situation, you return me the games, & you buy those games under 1st batch, that's it. Or else, like you mentioned above you don't want to deal with me, then why still talk about those options?

The most important part is, YOU STILL HAVEN'T ANSWER TO THE PUBLIC, ARE YOU GONNA BUY THE 1ST BATCH AS PROMISE?

Pls, you agree since 1 month ago & never even set a date for COD, means no confirm dealing yet, so I still can sell. & suddenly you come to me & said I confirm to COD with you on Tuesday, look at the pic, I even feel surprised & ask "I said today?".

& guys, look at the pic, can understand that I keep update him with my latest game list, I've sent few times of up to date game list to him, from 244 titles, until the latest, until I sold him the very 1st 25 titles.

Actually I was going to ask about the list but he answered already. I scrutinized the conversation and couldn't find anything saying that frog agreed on the games until the last part where agree to sell 59 games. In the msn conversation can't see the games mentioned highlighted and the list a mixtuRe of a lot of games so can't tell which is promised or not. Having said that since from the beginning tash wanted to buy bulk of games from him, frog has been updating him the list.

Tash since u admitted that there was no acc given for eoj as it was not part of the transaction, the it's up to frog whether he accept the ur offer for it. However since there was a separate agreement to buy the rest of the games, you should honor it as a buyer based in the list both of u agreed.

see , i said tonite when can COD on 27





then you made an excuse that you cannot COD that night so you wanted to do on other day, that day I waited the whole day but you never showed up so the next day than also I asked you "so how bro ?"

That means I did asked him for COD , and he even after that he sold 3 games...


So how can he blame me ?

Pls look at the time 3:44:29PM & 3:44:39PM, what I wrote?

Then look at time 3:44:59PM, what I wrote?

Now I don't wanna deal with you anymore sry(The reason is your behavior)

Do you want to solve this issue or not just tell me that?
& Stop pressurizing me for buying second batch bcz of your behavior I don't want to deal with you anymore.

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Added on December 5, 2011, 7:37 pm

This post has been edited by tashfinsheikh: Dec 5 2011, 07:37 PM

I got really confused going through the conversations.

Like I said before, this situation happened when both parties failed to establish a common and solid agreement.

For Tash, you have failed to state clearly your intention and items you wish to buy. You should have gone through the terms and conditions plus the items that come with the deal. You should have done your own survey and make a list on what need to be asked. First rule of business, never trust the seller.

Same goes to Frog, you have also failed to explain in detailed and complete about your terms and conditions. With the assumption that you are a serious businessman, you should have structured the negotiation process better. As a seller, it is your duty to take that extra effort, not the buyer.

We are not talking about a deal that worth few ringgit, but thousands of ringgit. Both parties should have took an extra effort to discuss things in proper medium of communication i.e. face to face, phone calls and etc. Both decided to use free communication yet confusing which leads to this sort of madness.

If you ask me whether this is a ffk case, my answer is a solid no. This is a case of two individuals where one is too eager to buy, and one is desperate to sell off his aging goods. It is too obvious for me for not to say no. How many of us went to shop look into things, asked lots of things to the shop helpers, show great interest in buying the items but end up walking out the shop with nothing? Shop helpers prolly had to create these sort of threads everyday then.

I don't think I have the authority to decide but what I can advice to both of you is to start talking to each other. Please call each other up. If you don't have each other's phone numbers, get them now. Discuss on how to solve things.

p/s: Not trying to prove anything but there are people selling used PS3 games for RM40 per piece, depending on the title. You can look it up in the threads.

Bro, very easy & stated clearly, he wants to exchange, I agree to exchange, but I just wants him to be fair, fulfill what he has agreed earlier, that's it, but.... seems like he's pushing away what he need to answer to the public, & keep pointing at new things, which doesn't help much you see...

If he refuse to buy the so called 2nd batch (which actually the 1st batch), I'm fine, but I'm not gonna exchange the games for him, that's fair, & we can close case, & everyone will know he broke the promise not me, I'm fine with that as well.

Bro, noted. Like I said, it is best to discuss things face to face or phone calls. It is the best way of communication.

But you look at the way he talk, can he talk nicely? Or will he ask his whole family to come & talk, nicely? Or come & argue again? Actually we all know the answer, he won't talk nicely, he won't settle things in win win situation, he just wants to exchange the games that's it, so.... best is I don't want to waste my time on him, I can close case at anytime, & I'm not desperate to sell him, I can go on with my business still.

I just want to clear my name, bcoz he launched the report in the 1st place, & yet don't want to answer what he shd, & I've answered every questions asked by all frens over here, with strong evidences to support.

Lastly, pls take a look on how ppl complaint about him, he can't even communicate well, I've problem with that as well, when face to face.

http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/2135790

This post has been edited by Frogcat: Dec 5 2011, 08:47 PM

Bro Frog and Bro Tash

I guess if any of you keep posting more it will make more confusion to the reader. As I can see is more to miss communication. I bro Frog already answer all the question and is already clear to everyone.

I also hope Bro Frog and Bro Tash can close this case in nice way. No need to blame each other anymore. As I said it is more to miss communication with some words in both side conversation. Just we all take note in the future for this kind of situation, batter Face to Face in making a deal rather then chatting v (Just my opinion)

Sorry for my bad english or i give a wrong suggestion v

Cheers

To TS (Tash), lets go back to your original complaint in the 1st post you put also titled ill-mannered & want you to buy games off him. Now I can't really understand yet what you want to do coz this forum is whether you want to highlight or ask the staff to place Frog under dispute / blacklisted because so far you have not pointed out how he is forcing you to buy games from him ( I leave out the ill mannered because both of you have been name calling each other here.

Also you gave the options as per the spoiler below so you will need to decide how you want to pursue this if Frog does not comply with any of your requests. Again I'm just focusing on what kind of complaint you want to put up here, and what you want us Forumers to be warned about.

TS (Tash) resolution options


As for the response from some of the forumers here, I can concur why Seller (Frog feels cheated) as there is evidence in the conversations that Tash suppose to buy the whole games agreed (59 pcs) from Frog at a price of RM 60. Whether the price is fair / good deal or not that is not the point. Point a gentleman's agreement has been made, and while Frog wanted Tash to take the whole set, in the end he only took 25 first, and from what I gather inthe conversation these 25 is for the games Tash did not own. The rest of it Tash already more or less has the games and Frog is feeling that because buyer wanted to only take 1st batch first (reasons stated was ATM withdrawal limit). Frog probably feels that Tash probably tried to bargain by taking more games to get lower prices (after all cheaper in bulk), collect the 1st batch which he does not own, then later come up with some stories so don't have to take second batch. Personally I feel is a misunderstanding but fact of the matter is there was an agreeement to buy the whole list as per what the other forumers stated below.

As for the EOJ misunderstanding, I can say that any LYN seller who sell in the game forums, it is understood for games disc only (whether can play or not with or without accessories / cards, etc). You guys obviously know this and can check every major seller here. Hence cannot compare with handphone or computer set, etc. as different market got different way of sharing their wares. Now I don't know what Tash is thinking when he bought the EOJ as per shared by Frog, and I cannot say that Frog is wrong for elaborating how the EOJ game is like because he just mentioned EOJ with cards.

And since Tash misunderstood about EOJ, Frog offered to sell the 57 games again at the price of RM 60 instead of 59, allowing Tash a full refund for the EOJs.

Frog's misgivings


Lastly, I would like to comment @noruazumi post on trading in LYN.

Most of LYN trading is based on gentleman's agreement and no seller nor buyer draws up a list of terms and conditions. It naturally based on human trust unlike major trading sites like Lelong / Ebay, etc. Normally its via chat rooms, or PMs. I agree that as a buyer you should always clarify before you buy and do the usual common steps like insist on COD, ask can work or not with this or that, etc.

However, I fail to understand what extra effort that the seller should do? For me seller should state clearly what they want to sell and I think from all the conversations, that is stated clear enough by Frog. Not sure what you mean by structured negotiation process. Its usually a simple case of seller put an item on offer (describe as best able to), buyer offers price (asks as much about the product), and if both agrees including terms of delivery or COD, than the deal is done.

And you're right, this is not a ffk case. hence let the TS decide what he wants to do. Normally people put up a dispute topic to either highlight to warn other buyers / sellers or ask LYN staff to blacklist them (hence coming back to the top of this reply to Tash). I doubt if both would call each other now looking the responses and its up to TS how he want to proceed once Frog replies to his options (which I think he already indicate as above) so I say the balls are in Tash's court to proceed with next step.

LYN Trading


BTW, as I said before I know both of them and have played with them and feel a little sad that this happened and what I'm trying to do here is summarize the whole points so that both can move on to whatever's next. Hence Tash I leave up to you to decide on what you want to do. I've read the whole MSN conversation and I cannot find fault on the transaction prior before you start complaining to Frog about the EOJ and even them Frog offered to refund those 2 games for you.

I hope you guys can settle this with a win-win situation... It's kinda sad to see that this case happened because of misunderstanding... and to TS, you won't be happy too if someone calling you an "Ill-manner seller/buyer", right???