Of cuz if I am an Afgan refugee, I would see Oz as a better viable option.

Yes I know there's a lot of complain about Malaysia. But Malaysia is not half as bad compared to Australia.

I think migrating to Australia is good when:
1) You just graduated from an Ozzie Uni
2) You are in your early 20s and just starting to work
3) You want to do business there like construct properties

I think migrating to Australia is not good when:
1) You are already in senior position, why? Because the ozzy employer give you junior job
2) You are in your early 30s, no point to go there to work as junior with people younger than you. Property not cheap, you gotta start all over again
3) You got no Ozzy degree. Why? Ozzy employers don't trust other universities not even UK unless you are an Ivy league graduate or graduated from Oxford. I ask you if you are employer would you think the graduate is good or not, if he came from University of Lagos? Bottom line is, Australia prefers Australian graduates. That is the universal truth.

This post has been edited by Alvin330000421: Feb 7 2013, 03:13 PM

Agree with these observations. Was studying there 15 years back. Here two observations from my uni mates:

A friend of mine, a second generation PR secured his better job here. His plan was to move back to Oz after gaining enough experiences. It's been 10 years now and he's still here. The reason he's still here, well, he's in higher position now and has better career development according to him. But once a while, he'll be visiting his parents in Oz.

Another one, get his PR immediately after finishing his degree. Secured his job as Technician (he has electrical/electronic engineering degree by the way) and plan to climb the rank with being technician as step stone. Until now, he's stucked with the same position. He seems happy though.

Just my observations ...

Well it depends on the individual, if you're looking to climb the corp ladder, can forget about migrating to Australia. Those positions are reserved for the whites. Yes, there is racism in the office. Several of my friends who migrated there can attest to that. One who migrated, told me that his Ozzy female boss was very bias towards him. The same mistake made by his fellow Ozzy white mate, was oversighted. But when he made that mistake, he got some racial blasting from his white ozzy female boss. And can see the obvious racial favortism. Those managers who sit in the rooms, are all whites, while all those sitting at the cubicles are the Asians.

And then another friend of mine who works in an Aussie bank, say her bank got this strange appraisal system. Unlike here in Malaysia, where the superior appraise the subordinate, In Australia, the everybody appraises each other ! So the white boss play polish shoe to the white staffs. The Asians rarely get promoted and if they are not liked by their white counterparts, they consistently get low ratings by their peer reviewers, if low rating more than two years, they get the sack.

The advantage of working in Australia is that you can get any low position, yet manage to earn a good pay. Correct me if I am wrong, i get the impression that doctors, accountants, lawyers, ITs, engineers all get the same pay over there.

Your friend whose parents are PR, may have already lost his PR because 1) he is above 18 2) he has past his 5 year limit. Unless his parents are citizens. In order to be citizens, his parents has to drop the msian citizenship or hush hush keep dwi-citizenship without informing either governments.

Maybe thats why he didn't go back to Oz.

Ok maybe that is too extreme la.
I know there are glass ceilings but not necessarily due to bias (at least not all the time)
And yes, alot of companies these days have this 360 degree evaluation where you are evaluated by all your peers as well as your boss.
This is not particular to Aussies only.
However, I realise a lot of Asian especially Malaysian don't do well because they cannot socialise with the Aussies. Like typical Malaysian mentality, we prefer to stick to those who look and speak like us and form a clique. I've seen it many times. And this might be misintepreted as being rude by the aussies.

I do wonder about this as well, I've never lived in Australia but have spent a long time in the US. My english is excellent and I certainly spent time socializing with a lot of the locals so I had no problems integrating, getting promotions, job offers etc. But I have seen other Malaysians who don't do so, can't cope with the language, culture or socializing bit and end up mostly within their own communities.

I know people can be biased, but I believe a lot of it is biased against culture, not simply skin color.

Yeps, that's why even as technician, he seems happy. The gap between high and low rank is not too wide. There is saying in Oz, the higher you earn, the higher you fund the lazies. How high is the highest? 150K is a norm for top top position, more than that is rare. As a technician with years of experiences, perhaps he's getting 60K - 80K which would lead quite comfortable life I guess (living in the suburb of melbourne with no car)

Not sure about his PR status. But he did mention if he's going back to Oz, the chances to secure the same position is low.

A$ 60-80k is gross pay. Once you take out the taxes 20-30%, super annuation and medicare or private insurance, you will find yr take home pay is only a$36-48k p.a or a$3~4k p.m. after paying off yr housing mortgage (you cannot use yr super to pay for), car mortgage, gas, parking, etc, you will not be left with much. No way you can go out to eat every weekend, no overseas holidays, no fancy branded stuff,etc. you cannot afford it.

Its universal. Its not just we asians do it, aussies as well.

I know because i lived in the aussie residential halls before when I studied there. During makan time, the Ozzies tend to sit with each other and don't join us asians. But they welcome white overseas students to sit with them, such as those from USA, UK and other parts of europe. I normally sit with the msians, hongkees, singaporeans, indians, japanese, koreans and sometimes eastern european students. There was one time I wanted to be cheecky so I sat with the Aussies wanting to strike some conversations, immediately I could see they not so friendly and once they finish their meals, they left.

I don't think its because Asians struggle to talk like an Aussie. I got a friend who has been there since she's 9 years old, she dropped her msian citizenship to become an australian citizenship, she's been there for over 25 years. She can't speak a word of chinese although she's chinese. She has a thick australian accent and does whatever an Aussie does, she goes to church, she likes western food. Yet she tells me that she has hard time fitting in the office.

We always think the whites are better than us but they are just as prejudice as we are. They may be progressive society, accepting gays, liberal thinking, abolish death sentence but at end of day, racism was always creep up in their indirect actions. The only difference is, they just don't do it outwardly.

Yeah hardly any take home pay. Thats what happen to my friend who migrated there.

For me, to survive there, one needs to start pay at $80k a year. I think at the very least, min should be around $60k, any lower, its better to work in msia.

Correct, living a little bit of luxury (dine out every weekend, holiday, branded stuffs) definitely out of reach.

Ya and some people deem that as a better life. And i'm like are you sure? This esp goes to those who are mid level or senior mgr in malaysia earning a comfortable >rm10k and threw it all away to go to aus to start over again.

I not sure how the cost of living in Malaysia but does that mean Malaysian earning RM60-80k per year able to *paying off yr housing mortgage (you cannot use yr super to pay for), car mortgage, gas, parking, etc,*?

Also, if they can afford the above, can they do this *No way you can go out to eat every weekend, no overseas holidays, no fancy branded stuff,etc. you cannot afford it* as well?

Can I ask if UK or US that earn the same range as above able to cover those?

You able to take back slightly about $4k per month(after tax) if you earn $60k + super. $60k is not enough once you reach 30 years old

Top position able to secure $150k pa easily depending at the occupation. My Executive Director in ITS department is earning $200k + bonus performance and he still need to report to his 2 bosses.

I have to agree there is no point to migrate from Malaysia to Australia if you are earning quite well(Rm10k and above per month)

This is quite subjective. $40k is average for fresh graduate. Above 30 years old and only earning $60k is not enough but also depends how you spend. But this is definitely not enough if you have family

Perhaps they see Aussie from their holiday's perspective rather than actual living experiences. I must say, a lot of my friends coming back in awe with Sydney and Melb especially from their vacation. But living there is different animal. Suddenly, used to be top earner here must do all the household stuffs themselves. I always say this, goods could be much cheaper there on one to one comparison but boy, services are too expensive. That's why dining out is luxury. Getting car is cheap but maintenance is different story. I used to remember one of my uni mate buying mistsubishi sigma for 600 dollar. When the car broke down, rather than repairing, he just left the car on the parking lot (I'm not sure he got fined for that)

What does he expect when he buying $600?

Even RM10k car in Malaysia will create the same trouble as well.

Seriously, earning in Australia basically is the same in Malaysia. RM to RM and dollar to dollar. The thing I like to earn in Australia because of the strong currency. Just give me $10k(might enough for 2 person) and I can happily take 1 month leave and head to US for holiday.

You got the point. If talking dollar to dollar, you still afford purchasing a property and buying cheap cars. If in malaysia, i'm telling ya, you'll be living miserably. Oz government providing security welfare to help family and education.
For example for my case, I purchased 2 property in KL which is 8 years ago where property price still in reasonable price. I came out to work less than 3 years and able to secure a property. But now, if you asking a fresh graduate to buy a simple apartment, it's a sky high price for them by now. I really pity to these young professionals. The impact is just unbearable. They would just leave the country. Government should help those who just married and giving them intensive for them to start family, not just fulfilling the developer's greed! 2013 budget is bullshit! They never think about people who has family with kids. When i read through the list, it's just F*&K!
Yes, i must admit that Ozzie may have bad impression to asian as we're snatching their rice bowl. However, i think as you said, it's very much depending on occupation. I totally agree to your statement, if anyone earning RM 10k above in malaysia, better don't migrate as malaysia no matter how, still affordable. If you're earning less than RM5k and is young professional. I pull out my leg and fully support that quickly migrate as fast as you can!

haha..as a student, that much we could afford..but my point is, services such as mechanic with high man hour charges no matter what cars would hurt your pocket. In M'sia we still have options to find cheaper mechanic around.

As Alvin said previously which I agree, if you are young, Oz fresh grad..basically nothing to lose, go ahead and migrate as the experiences gained would be worthwhile. And you said it too, you can travel basically anywhere with income earned due to strong currency. But mostly agree if you earn 5 figures here, it's a risky move.

That's a depressing thought for some people, that you can make more money in salaries in Malaysia compared to Australia. I've always dreamed of higher salaries with a better standard of living

Well yeah you can make more money but sacrificing people who's in need and value. Our SME making huge fortune where you're sucking poor man's blood. If you have huge family backup or business, of course you'll say no problem. But how bout for young professionals who without financial backup?
I remember i dealt with some consultants even earn double degree can't have the salary they required, so they moved to singapore.
If you guys who have professional background, don't be afraid to cross overseas to get higher pay coz i'm telling ya, malaysian is not so char one what is highlighted in this forum. Just lack of confident only. Could try out china, hongkong,brunei or watever 3rd world country as long as the pay is nice.
I remember i have a job offer to china & dubai 3 years ago for RM20k/mth package (incl living and 2 return ticket) but i turned down coz being too 'patriotic' to stay in malaysia to contribute my service.
I'm not trying to brain drain our country. People asking me why am leaving? I only could answer them our Najib don't know me.

Depending on sector, but generally you are dead wrong.
Dollar to dollar, Malaysia pays alot more for white collar jobs like finance.
Aus pays more dollar to dollar for skilled blue collar jobs compared to malaysia like foreman and technicians.