lol, take their comment wif a grain of salt, this is their way to communicate in this forum. just ignore those BMs lol.

Patch 1.4 is alive since the morning!

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Added on September 21, 2011, 3:43 pmThe new patch is full of bugs:

http://sea.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/163876425

This post has been edited by hazairi: Sep 21 2011, 03:43 PM

actually i don't understand whats wrong with doing a 1-1-1 built as a terran? honestly i even 1-1-1 against terran and even zerg opponent. Just that theres a variation from there and mid to end game it would become something like 4-2-3 or 4-1-2. Thing is those built is incrediblly among the most flexibel and safest terran opener it can be.

for example just frm my experience:

1-1-1 against T v T just stop any early mass marine rush, reaper rush. by getting siege tank as early as possible and siege them at crucial loccation such as at choke point/ramp, on your main mineral line, expansion mineral line juz reduce the possiblity of drops, reaper harrasement greatly.

advantage is u gain access to tech up and advance unit fairly fast. i won most of my TvT matchup with 1-1-1 opener and it started with a good solid defense and transition into good offensive strat. mirror match-up if your on equal base mining and with the same army count, guess who will win? if you mass up unit with aoe damage or spellcaster unit with replenishable energy is going to be a good leverage to win.

To curse terran with their 1-1-1 is like us cursing zerg with their mass mutafag and baneling tactics, to curse protoss with their HT, DT, deathball play.

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Added on October 13, 2011, 1:29 ami just watch MVP win at GSL vs Huk 1st game and he didn't even get starport, 2 barracks and a single factory with good micro and he wins... impressive .

This post has been edited by max_cavalera: Oct 13 2011, 01:29 AM

mass muta and baneling or protoss with deathball all can't be done with 1 base

and they don't pull drones/probe with that

on the other hand 1/1/1 does that

I decided to write a long reply on the 1-1-1 since u seem to have a wrong idea of the 1-1-1 thus claiming it is usable in TvZ etc...

First of all, the definition is 1-1-1 is not the general 1rax1fact1starport build... Building 1 rax, 1 fact and 1 starport doesnt make that build 1-1-1... The 1-1-1 build is a well known TvP build and is considered the most abusive overpowered build for tat matchup which even the best terran in the world IM.Mvp agreed upon (look up gisado's writeup on TL)... The core unit in the build is marines, tank (with siege), raven (for PDD and detection) and banshee (with or without cloak)... It is a timing attack which hits at 9minute Why is it abusive and overpowered?

1. Scouting
Scouting the 1-1-1 as a protoss is not easy as the terran would be walling off and the early scouting from ur probe doesnt confirm it... The only time you can really confirm it is the 1-1-1 is when u have an observer out and at his base which would take some time which would lead u to a build disadvantage (see section 2)... One may ask why not u jz poke up his ramp wit stalkers as protoss has been doing? If the terran know what he is doing, he would only have marines and this could mean anything - it cant be 1-1-1, it can be bio with him just hiding his marauder behind, tanks etc... thus protoss keep guessing

2. Build advantage
Basically to handle the 1-1-1, the protoss would need to fast expand as if the protoss stay on 1 base his economy would be behind cause of mules to fund more marines thus bigger army (full 1 base saturation tat is) and if he expand late the expansion doesnt pay for itself... besides for the terran to 1-1-1, he need to be defensive for the tech so u can expand earlier... only problem was when the terran fake 1-1-1 (which is very normal in korean play) and bio builds/ marine tank builds will totally roll over any protoss fast expand... another option would be the stargate route allowing the protoss to scout with and delay the 1-1-1 timing but the build auto loose to bio builds and also the terran can jz go tank marine (puma vs mc in metalopolis)... basically the build which beat 1-1-1 loose to any other terran build...

3. Flexibility
i've talked about how this build beat most protoss build... the reason for this is the flexibility of the build... 1 bunker up the ramp with 2 depot walling it and repairing scvs can hold off 4 gate (especially when ur siege tech is getting ready)... protoss skip robo (templar route or anything) u can jz get banshee cloak and roll over him... that banshee allow u to scout the protoss as well btw... protoss got for stargate all-in (3 gate VR)? getting 1 viking to deny the vision from VR and that allin ended... DT? you got ravens... if u optimize the build well with decent scouting skill, u can react anyhting the protoss can throw at you...

4. Lack of protoss AOE b4 T3
As mentioned before, this is a timing attack which hit the protoss at 9minute... and being on 1 base vs 1 base with mules for equal saturation, the terran would have a bigger army where the extra minerals can be spent on marines... marines are the main DPSers for the 1-1-1... before protoss gets their AOE in T3, protoss rely on forcefields to split the mariens reducing their dps for gateway units to hold off marines... this is negated by the 12 range of siege tanks where the lower dps of gateway units cant kill the split marines fast enuff before being shelled... the same group of marines will of course protect the tanks from immortals... immortals will fire their shot off but nt before dying to marines... basically protoss do not have any answer in handling high marine count (and marines scale very well in numbers)... stalkers are unable to kite without getting shelled by tanks... u need robo for obs thus delaying ur templar tech (charge, storm etc)... the quick 9 minute timing attack ensure that protoss wont be able to get colosus with lance up in time and range 6 colossus is bad vs range 12 tanks and marine support... if u rush for 2 colossus with lance (possible if u cut every possible corners and hope the terran doesnt attack u with bio etc), u still lack support for ur colossus which is bad...

5. ALL-IN BITBYBIT
All of the above is not much of an issue for the 1-1-1... the biggest issue is the allin for terran... 1-1-1 bring around 10-16 scvs to battle wit the army... all of the terran units are range and the scvs will create a nice buffer for the units as they kill the protoss army... they could even bunker crawl and contain the protoss... and funniest part is that mules negate this allin by a lot... if protoss hold off the first push (which he need to suffer damage), the terran could rely on mules and ready for the 2nd attack which is much more devastating than the first (2nd 1-1-1 attack is harder to hold than the first, just tat most people die in the first attack)... look at MC vs Puma agian... MC hold off the first 1-1-1 allin by puma and have a 30 supply lead with all 3 immortals alive... the 2nd allin by puma still kills MC lol... and when the terran main is mined out, he could float his CC to his natural and keep the tempo going while the protoss need to expand when he is mined out... it is a high tempo build which keep the protoss on his toe and that 400 minerals invested on nexus could haunt u...

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The reason above are why 1-1-1 is considered one of the most overpowered TvP build and is hated by almsot every1... everytime a terran does it in a major tournament, u can see TL rages over it... Any1 who follow GSL since season 1 would remember BitByBit.prime.WE which is i think the most hated player in sc2 still atm lol... he is a terran which allins every game with scvs and likewise this build is an allin build... Puma from a fan hero became one of the most hated terran for spamming 1-1-1 vs every protoss and then losing to other players when he cant 1-1-1...

IM yoda even worst

im surprised, no body did 1 1 1 in ladder recently, all go marine marauder ==

mass chargelot, immortals and a few HT with timing atk can kill this built to be honest. the most important thing is whr ur deathball army is position. it does have a weakness especially when terran mass unit is otw to your natural expansion and the tanks unsiege... at that point of time the odds will be much even, if you let them set up a camping site in front of your natural then its 60-70% chances gg already. i would suggest to counter this built is to rally all your troop to d middle of the map and gain controlof xel naga tower....

is this ur phd thesis? haha

our only real life phd in this forum i guess.

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Added on October 13, 2011, 8:16 pmbro, maybe you can suggest this to liquidHuk, ogsMC, Sage or Puzzle. and try getting chargelot immortal and a few HT off 1 base. rmb 1-1-1 is off 1 base, and to get the army you mentioned, even 2 out of that 3, you need 2 base. lets say, lets say. you get them off 1 base off insane macro till your main base mine off. but terran can just float their CC to natural expo and 1-1-1 you again and you will die because you cant fly ur nexus.

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Added on October 13, 2011, 8:20 pmanyway, tbh protoss are adapting pretty well already 2 gate expand into mass gate and etc builds are beating 1-1-1 ask our kampung hero cobo renson risen PvT in WCG Malaysia sap sap water.

This post has been edited by quest_5692: Oct 13 2011, 08:20 PM

try getting mass chargelot, immortals and a few HT (with storm) by 9minute all off 1 base or 2 base up to you...
as i said before, it is a 9minute timing attack...
then post a replay over here and if u can do it, u are the best protoss in the world...

i wish i got enuff gas to support: -
- robotics bay (100 gas)
- immortals (100 gas) x 3
- twilight council (100 gas)
- charge research (200 gas)
- templar archive (200 gas)
- storm research (200 gas)
- high templars (150 gas) x 3

sum = 1550 gas
a single fully saturated geyser can mine 121.15 gas per minute x 2 geysers = 242.3 per minute
u usually start mining 1 single geyser around 2 minute...
and u gotta get all of the above done by 9 minute (research finished etc, nt starting)

while having enough minerals to make army, pylons, gateways etc...

if wanna theory craft, at least make it logical...

ps: u need to make observers (75 gas each) as well or else u will die to cloak banshee... likewise some stalkers (50 gas) to shoot those banshees...

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Oct 13 2011, 08:50 PM

unless our chrono boost can make probes mine 50% faster, then everything said is definitely doable

lol i wish writing a thesis is this easy n simple lol...

yup protoss been adapting well so far especially the 2 gate build (this is my standard PvT now thanks to cobo)...
but then again, some map is still impossible to hold for example XNC where the short rush distance is just sooo deadly...
the problem with 1-1-1 is mostly due to the maps imho...
xnc's short rush distance, metalo's close air spawn ledge siege scenario (same as tal darim), dual sight's open natural etc...

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Oct 13 2011, 08:44 PM

.sc2replay or gtfo

well, still chargelot is essential, if any other upgrades unable to pull it off... i loss many match against protoss when they mass chargelots, coz usually 1-1-1- built the marines will be naked early game, no combat shields, no stim packs, coz most of the early gas will be used to get early tanks minimum 2 to push out and another 100 gas to research siege(total 300 gas) not including building a starport and additional banshee...

mass chargelot is deadly coz theyhave super high hp+ shields at 150. and they are categorized light units, as u know siege tank damage against light unit is only 35 per shot compared to stalker they get 50 dmg per shot due to armored type unit. they can take tank damage better. the tricks is, and wat make its deadly is when they charge so fast to either a clump of marines or siege tank, the siege tank themselves will shoot at their own marines and tanks. as u knoe tanks are damage their own unit in aoe siege mode. its even deadly with bunker units.

./facepalm

+1

max_cavalera, replays of u got beaten by mass immortals chragelots and a few HTs or gtfo

i agree mass chargelot can counter 111 easily and warp in stalkers when u have cleared the terran's ground army, but make sure the siege tanks havent sieged up,in fact i have uploaded a replay here

This post has been edited by pepsi89: Oct 13 2011, 10:21 PM

sory bro, play at cc here usually haven't save my replay.... too poor to have a good pc to play at home . i will watch ur replay.

have u guys seen eonshikeno 1-1-1 built? basicaly im following his built. im not sure if its standard or non standard against wat terran usually do.
heres the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKbMHzMHK6E

but usually i try to get an early EBay and fully upgraded those bunker to +2 armor and neosteel frame. hav any of u guys kena built like this before?

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Added on October 13, 2011, 10:38 pmthis built is good, but i kena tapau 2 times already if kena by mass chargelot back up by 1 or 2 immortals n a few stalker


This post has been edited by max_cavalera: Oct 13 2011, 10:38 PM

who the hell upgrades bunker and Ebay in a 1-1-1 lol, learn from ganzi or puma, they are the TvP 111 king.

lol, for terran with high apm n good micro of course. but this strat by eon work as well and even a bronze , silver league player chuld be able to pull this off. but im not sure if this strat can get a win gold leagues and higher.

bro. +2 building armor gives the bunker +3 armor total and neosteel frame u can load up to 6 marines per bunker. marines have fragile HP, its their DPS thats good. at 100 mineral and you get a 400HP building as tanker and +3 armor with 6 marine providing good DPS, they are as good as a single thor if not better .

This post has been edited by max_cavalera: Oct 14 2011, 01:04 AM

yeee...1v1 is so balance right?