>> Dreamer, what you said is not totally right also, your example is just fit to your own created story and it may not fit to all. Why a bukuteh seller want to choose to open a shop at the muslim area? It is obvious that muslim cant consume pork and why using such examples?

◘ I think we use exaggerated examples to make easier to see the point of what we're saying. The danger is that by exaggerating too much you may end up forming an analogy that doesn't work. But in this case I think Dreamer's analogy works fine... though I have no idea what bakuteh is, the context suggest it's some kind of food which Muslims cannot eat.

>> my key point is he does not have to close his shop and move to other places or stop.

◘ That's true, but I think the point being illustrated was that of whining vs action, not action vs other kinds of action.

I think we're belaboring the issue by comparing all the possible actions a person COULD take, and questioning the risk associated with each. As we've already been over, risk is an inherent part of business. You want each risk to be a carefully CALCULATED risk, by gaining as much knowledge as you can regarding the situation, then making the best decision from that. But again that's not the point.

Lets simplify it. I'm thinking about starting a thread that will use really really really simple analogies to explain some of these concepts, as it might help promote understanding of the topic, but for now:

- You create product X, which doesn't sell in your area. Options:

* Give up

* Whine

* Do something. (The "something" you do can be one of 10,000,000 options, but it doesn't matter! These are all lumped under the "DO SOMETHING" list of options).

^^^ Does that help? This is the point being made. Debating which of the "Do Something" options is best would be a different topic entirely.

>> 30+ years ago, NEP started. Because of that, certain GLC stop promoting their non-BUMI IT folks.

◘ Sorry, this conversation is becoming difficult to follow... whatever NEP, GLC, and non-BUMI means.

This post has been edited by Kasey Brown: Sep 2 2011, 01:24 PM

Psst...Are you a Malaysian? Anyway, exaggeration or not, examples set forth are primed to be of a thinking mechanism. Let the mind bewildered, right?

Regards, Joey

p.s: Bakuteh? Let's just say it's awesome! Some say after consuming it, you will gain +10 knowledge.

I find myself agreeing with Tigerr.
Let's drop the Bakuteh & Muslim Area, these two don't mix and it's offensive and rude to certain community. BTW I love Bakuteh and just had one session last night.
A) Agree with Tigerr. There are lots of successful and rich people in Malaysia.
B) Agree with Tigerr. Also I'm sure that even if you choose this, there is definitely something you can savage from your past experience, you don't need to start from "ground Zero"
C) Look around us, many people are staying put in Malaysia. What wrong with Malaysia? Dreamer101, Are you staying in Malaysia? I think we don't have to leave Malaysia in order to bring good food to our tables. Don't forget there are lots of racial issues in other countries too.

Bakuteh is a kind of chinese food which main ingredient is Pork which Muslim is prohibited to eat. Using open a Bakuteh stall in Muslim community as an example is way off. If by doing this and did not get business, we cannot complain the Muslims that they dont change and so that they will eat bakuteh.

What's wrong with the example? I think it's a very good example being mentioned. What do you mean it doesn't mix together? Offensive and considered rude to certain community? Hello? Such shallow minded you are, my friend.

Regards, Joey

>> Psst...Are you a Malaysian?

◘ American.

Do you know what the effing wrong with our government/nation?

Regards, Joey

p.s: Sorry about my language but I really need to kung-pow the word "wrong" with "effing".

This post has been edited by Joey Christensen: Sep 2 2011, 01:54 PM

haha that why my CEO always bring me to eat and he a Malay, the smarter one

Joey, since u do not understand, let me explain to you. Pork is something taboo to the Muslim community. So, better dont use such topics to apply on the Muslims. And this is definately not shallow minded. It did not hurt you so you dont feel, but do give tactful consideration to other religion.

---

Added on September 2, 2011, 2:06 pmLucky he is the smarter one, or else, long time kena caught already.

This post has been edited by Tigerr: Sep 2 2011, 02:06 PM

Well, there's a saying, knowledge comes and wisdom lingers. Anyway, it should be addressed to myself in a sense. Would it be very wrong if I were to enjoy my meals in front of my Muslim colleagues? Would it make sense if all the eateries were to be closed for a month during their month of fasting? Again, it doesn't make sense. Would it be of my examples here are of much an exaggeration in nature?

I don't think so.

Regards, Joey

Joey, different country have different culture. The way things practise in America and the way things practise in Asia or Africa is totally different. One cannot use one's culture or value to judge other's culture and value.

If you are indifferent of this opinion, you can try go to strong Muslim countries such as Iran or Saudi or Afganistan, and if you dare to bring out pork and consume in front of them. I salute you. If you are not beaten or stoned to death, you can go back and claim this victory.

Should I say, for example, by having a shop selling bakuteh in a middle of a Muslim community, it is considered hurtful? Am I being blasphemous? Hmmm...I do feel how Jeremy Clarkson feels when he commented something about our beloved Proton Corporation.

Regards, Joey

first of all, i am not a muslim. From what you are saying, having a shop selling bakuteh in a middle of a Muslim community, it is nothing hurtful (to me, of course). However, since bakuteh or indirectly means pork, it would be better not to relate it to the Muslim community as we dont know how they view it or feel it towards them.

There are plenty of topics where you can discuss or quote as an example, but why want to touch something like bakuteh with Muslims?

What victory as of you've spoken that yet to be claimed by me? Please don't be silly willy.

The association of both entities are well for you and for me to interpret. However, your set of interpretation does not equate squarely upon mine, vice versa. It is a hypothetical example that was written by fellow dreamer101 and I would be very much appreciate it if you keep your head leveled when considering a discussion with me or others.

You have your very own set of reason and I have mine as well. We stand for what we believe in and we discuss openly.

Regards, Joey

This post has been edited by Joey Christensen: Sep 2 2011, 02:30 PM

Because you mentioned Mr. Farmer is shallow minded because you do not agreeing with him on the religious thing.

2nd, you said it doesnt make sense for different culture of the Muslims to practise their way. You sound like it is wrong what other religion way of practise.

>> Do you know what the effing wrong with our government/nation?

◘ Ah... ok. If you want me to give you a full socio-economic and political break down of all Malaysia's problems, you can PM me and we can discuss that... but I'm not sure if that has anything to do with the topic here. Sure there's a lot wrong with Malaysia, but there's a lot RIGHT with it too! I mean Joey lives here, and Joey is a good person, so it cant be that bad. I'm a good person... or at least I try to be. Dreamer and Tigerr both seem pretty smart... in fact, I bet if you look you'll find dozens - possibly even THOUSANDS of really good-natured, warm hearted, intelligent people with only the best intentions in mind. And doesn't that count for something???

I swear there's another thread I just posted in where someone's making Malaysia out to sound like the worst country that ever existed.

>> Pork is something taboo to the Muslim community. So, better dont use such topics to apply on the Muslims.

◘ But this is a free and open forum. On top of that it's an internet forum, where we do not have to physically be near one another. So I think it's the most suited place for discussions that have intellectual merit or genuine concern.

>> Would it be very wrong if I were to enjoy my meals in front of my Muslim colleagues?

◘ Sure you can do that. They cannot control what you eat. You're not controlling what they eat, so they cant control what you eat. Besides, you're not asking to share the pork with them. You're eating it on your own. In that way, you're already being respectful to them. They have to be respectful to you by letting you eat it. Respect is a 2 way street.

>> If you are indifferent of this opinion, you can try go to strong Muslim countries such as Iran or Saudi or Afganistan

◘ In those countries it is not Muslims or Islam that causes those living conditions, but rather the fact those countries have a totalitarian fascist/theocratic government. Soviet Russia was an atheist state, but saying the wrong thing in public could get you executed. This has utterly nothing to do with atheist - it was a totalitarian government causing that. So I dont think your example works.

This post has been edited by Kasey Brown: Sep 2 2011, 02:33 PM

Of course we must not be sharing same opinion or interpretation as everyone has their own. Since you are of different cultural background, it is just a piece of advice of me and it is up to you how you take it. I did live in America for 3 years and i respected and followed what the local people practise there as we like to keep peace in mind all the time. Of course, not everyone abide by this as well.

◘ Ah... ok.  If you want me to give you a full socio-economic and political break down of all Malaysia's problems, you can PM me and we can discuss that... but I'm not sure if that has anything to do with the topic here.  Sure there's a lot wrong with Malaysia, but there's a lot RIGHT with it too!  I mean Joey lives here, and Joey is a good person, so it cant be that bad.  I'm a good person... or at least I try to be.  Dreamer and Tigerr both seem pretty smart... in fact, I bet if you look you'll find dozens - possibly even THOUSANDS of really good-natured, warm hearted, intelligent people with only the best intentions in mind.  And doesn't that count for something???

Yes. This I would agree wholeheartedly. I've never seen them personally but, yeah, I can see they are a good bunch. Thanks for the offer and for sure I'll keep that n mind.

I swear there's another thread I just posted in where someone's making Malaysia out to sound like the worst country that ever existed

Well, we have to accept criticism. An old saying that goes, criticism is better than praise.

◘ But this is a free and open forum.  On top of that it's an internet forum, where we do not have to physically be near one another.  So I think it's the most suited place for discussions that have intellectual merit or genuine concern.

I couldn't say it better my self.

◘ Sure you can do that.  They cannot control what you eat.  You're not controlling what they eat, so they cant control what you eat.  Besides, you're not asking to share the pork with them.  You're eating it on your own.  In that way, you're already being respectful to them.  They have to be respectful to you by letting you eat it.  Respect is a 2 way street.

You got that right!

◘ In those countries it is not Muslims or Islam that causes those living conditions, but rather the fact those countries have a totalitarian fascist/theocratic government.  Soviet Russia was an atheist state, but saying the wrong thing in public could get you executed.  This has utterly nothing to do with atheist - it was a totalitarian government causing that.  So I dont think your example works.

Thank you for shaving my time to write/explain.

This post has been edited by Joey Christensen: Sep 2 2011, 02:44 PM

Dreamer is just using a paradox example meaning non-halal food in a place which people can only eat halal food.
But somehow you guys have a hoo-hah on the example.

I believe Dreamer point is that either the person adapt to the environment or leave to an environment which people eat non-halal food or end up starving

Kasey, what you said is totally what i agreed. However, enough said, it is just what we both agreed and what we think it should be the way. However, for courtesy sake, it should be better if you want to eat Pork in front of the Muslims. Not all of them can accept that. Some may see it as offensive gesture. Probably you wont feel it as i believe you are dealing with the modern Muslim folks.

Have is a classic example, in an office pantry where a non-muslim staffs heated up his lunch(consist of pork) using the microwave, and found out by one of the Muslim receptionist. In the end, the microwave have to be disposed as Muslim colleagues cannot use it anymore eventhough how clean you going to clean it. From that day onward, no pork is allowed to be consumed in the pantry room. Please dont be suprise as this happened in one of the Swiss MNC in Malaysia.

We need to respect each other, but the way showing respect to each other, we must also know how the locals practise it. Sometimes, what we think and act could be wrong in the eyes of others.