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Financial Are property prices going to drop? V2, The heated debate continues

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dreamer101
post Jun 17 2011, 02:45 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Jun 17 2011, 02:36 PM)
A lot of people make money do not realise they are not making money, but still claim they are making money from properties.
No offence.  smile.gif

For eg. you bought a house with capital 200k, after 10 years, you sold your house, let say gain 100k
99% of people will claim they are making good money of 100k, 50%, magnificent.
But gain 100k from 200k in 10 years time, FD also can achieve it (last time, 90's when FD was average 4-6%).

This is not actually "make money", nor can be classified as successful investment.

The actual make money, is that your achieved gain surpass what FD can offer you, at least 1.5x above, only worthwhile to be classified as "successful". My view only.
Just because it is a net gain, doesn't mean it is a successful investment.

So my FD also a successful investment...  biggrin.gif
*
cherroy,

1) Of course, we have not throw in how much a person paid in housing loan interest too. When the FD was average 4-6%, the housing loan interest was around 9%. The end result is even worse...

2) As per my observation, most people do not know how to calculate the TRUE and TOTAL COST of buying a house. Hence, in most cases, they LOSE MONEY but they do not even know it.

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CKHong
post Jun 17 2011, 02:56 PM

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agreed..
my future house cost 460k.. borrowed 414k from bank.. after 40 years.. total $$ i paid 800k++
they have to count as well the bank charges for the interest..
when sell that time, have to count total interest paid to bank + lawyer fee's + other kind of charges
then end up count count har.. eh ~ macam tarak untung..
sulifeisgreat
post Jun 17 2011, 03:06 PM

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hmm, sounds like bollocks, but can't argue tat a gain is a gain without taking into ac of inflation tongue.gif
with the flood of liquidity worldwide, int rate for fd wil be at peanut level for quite some time
but if u guys like it as a SAFE vehicle, its ur choice & we live in a democratic country laugh.gif
http://financialindependent.blogspot.com/2...and-saving.html

buying usa stocks, I rent it out during down market via 'cover call' & collect premiums
buying props, I rent it out to those students or new working rakyat & collect rents
let me recheck the forbes list & see who kept the most savings in fd, suspek its warren buffet/ li ka shing hmm.gif
http://stockpickr.com/pro/portfolio/warren-buffett//

keeping in fd not my cup of tea, but strictly speaking, a gain is a gain & much better than keep in milo tin/ under pillow
look at the savings rate, the only time it goes up > 10% is during crisis & its sideways MOST OF THE TIME shakehead.gif
The UK bank rate from the 17th Century until December 2008 http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/economy
if dunno how calculate, YES! PLS DO NOT BUY PROPS! laugh.gif keep in savings & grow until can buy props in ONE LUMP SUM



kochin
post Jun 17 2011, 03:09 PM

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most basic rule.
if rental is more than enough to cover mortgage + misc related expenses, confirmed the buyer making money liao.
simplest theory! smile.gif
sulifeisgreat
post Jun 17 2011, 03:15 PM

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but usually there r times no rental, tenant run away, heavy repair or maintenance required nod.gif
its all part of life & does any businessman DO NOT take loan for their business? then wat r banks doing with ur fd? hmm.gif
heck, I refinance & buy more props. BUT I CANNOT refinance my savings/ fd nor beat inflation with it doh.gif

if props price up, then rental up loh, wat to do, inflation up mah smile.gif
of coz sharing is caring & I ask tenants assist me to pay to those bankers most of the time brows.gif & they usually do
since my matematik is f9, means I kenot go enjoy the goodie life even when props price is up shakehead.gif

CKHong
post Jun 17 2011, 03:27 PM

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problem is.. rental doesn't go up in par with props price smile.gif
currently the props is so expensive..
cherroy
post Jun 17 2011, 03:34 PM

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QUOTE(CKHong @ Jun 17 2011, 03:27 PM)
problem is.. rental doesn't go up in par with props price  smile.gif
currently the props is so expensive..
*
Rental rate is going up like snail pace only.
and a handful can be very difficult to find tenants, and continuity of tenants as well.

For those get good tenants and paying your mortgages, congratulation.
But many left with properties vacant as well. This especially more can be found in mid high class condo, new landed houses in totally new area etc.


Added on June 17, 2011, 3:36 pmIt is not like today you decided to rent, next week get a good tenants.
Good tenants a lot of time depended on luck factor as well.
We never know a stranger (tenants), from just meeting, talk to them a few hours.

This post has been edited by cherroy: Jun 17 2011, 03:36 PM
Bobby C
post Jun 17 2011, 03:37 PM

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Prior to 2008, you can safely say it is a norm in KV new properties upon completion and handing over you gain ~10-20% luck >30% capital appreciation.

Starting from mid 2008 till now, price hike is seriously unbelievable. A lot of us even friend of mine who bought one corner in SS2 within 1.5yrs asking for nearly x2. One asset outside KV we acquired early last yr now market price hike 70%.

Are we happy? Sort of. But we are worry at the same time. This is not a norm, something never seen before in our short 10 yrs experience in property. Hope not like 1997 nobody ever imagine KLSE can go below 300. Of course property if go down 15-20% consider big deal, KLSE will probably crash below 900 and unemployment sky rocketed.

Just keep fingers cross we are wrong.

sulifeisgreat
post Jun 17 2011, 03:56 PM

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if u buy now, of coz la, crisis & opportunity alwiz cum around once in a decade wink.gif
but those tenants stil assist to part pay for my props & how do I factor it into the calculation rclxub.gif
lucky no buy those super high end props, wonder which rich tauke wan to rent fr me or how many mnc cum here hmm.gif

I accept the fats tat rental doesn't go up in par with props price & all those quality blue chip shares r expensive with div
well for me, its better than fd. everyone got their own cup of tea & here is really having a healthy debate cheers.gif

no need keep fingers cross, the bubble is here & growing, wil it be a soft or hard landing? brows.gif waiting for next month earnings & guidance report. A significant decline in the WLI has been a leading indicator for six of the seven recessions since the 1960s. It lagged one recession (1981-1982) by nine weeks.
http://dshort.com/articles/ECRI-Weekly-Leading-Index.html

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foofoosasa
post Jun 17 2011, 04:02 PM

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Aiyo, now property boom in anywhere of course almost everyone is making money.I think this is something bad sign is coming. nothing will go like a straight line.
If think for long run, not necessary so. probably only the prime location will beat the average return.I think the global financial crisis is not hitting Malaysia hard enough, so many of the people think property investment will only give you reward.
I still remembered after 1997, some of the property drop more than 50% in term of price.I am not trying to predicting the economy cycle, but sit certain % amount of cash in FD is not necessary a bad thing.

personally I think there will be a big correction in property price, but won't as bad as during in 1997's.If someone just HOPING the price increase by paying too much without focus on the value itself, bear the consequences by being too greedy.
cherroy
post Jun 17 2011, 04:05 PM

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QUOTE(sulifeisgreat @ Jun 17 2011, 03:56 PM)
I accept the fats tat rental doesn't go up in par with props price & all those quality blue chip shares r expensive with div
well for me, its better than fd. everyone got their own cup of tea & here is really having a healthy debate  cheers.gif


*
Nobody said FD is a good choice of investment. smile.gif
Just if the net gain from properties is on par with FD rate, then the properties investment cannot be classified as "successful"

Yes, some may choose, different people different cup of tea, but if looking back and assess the situation, it is not a "successful" investment.
FD rate is the benchmark. smile.gif
CKHong
post Jun 17 2011, 04:06 PM

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QUOTE(sulifeisgreat @ Jun 17 2011, 03:56 PM)
if u buy now, of coz la, crisis & opportunity alwiz cum around once in a decade 
Duno why u give me impression to ask people BBB + market wont crash + buy props now will profit if u're clever enuff (fall in the minority group which is clever + buy the right property)
arrsoo
post Jun 17 2011, 04:11 PM

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QUOTE(soongkm @ Jun 16 2011, 02:34 PM)
The point i am trying to make is that some of the people who migrated tend to have alot more tolerant level when the country they migrated to has negative impact on them.  especially in orang putih country.  For example, when they go to the immigration dept in australia or banks in australia, even though those people working there (usually white people) are slow in attending to them, they (the migrants) dare not make a fuss about it (i witness this with my own eyes).  But when the malays are slow in the govt dept in malaysia or the malay staffs are slow in the banks in malaysia, we tend to be very aggressive towards them, some even scolded them (again witness with my own eyes).

What i don't agree is alot of this migrants when they go to western country, they tend to suck up to the white people, eventhough the things they do may be as bad, if not worse than the malays back here in malaysia.

For example, when going to interview in the govt dept here in australia, asians migrants generally can't get the job, but instead they don't admit to the fact that racism is happening, they tend to say well maybe they require different skills set and etc.  But in malaysia, when govt dept don't hire non-malays, we will say is racism.  I'm not saying racism in malaysia don't exist, of course it does.  but it also exist in the western society also, but these migrants is like not willing to accept the fact that it exist. 

I get the feeling like they think white people is more a superior race, so is ok to suck up to them.  And even rejected by them, the migrants tend to think that they are not good enough yet.  But the way we, Chinese treat malay attitude is like they are less superior than us, so we cannot be "neutralise" by them, and if they reject us, is not our problem, must be their narrow mindedness.

Sometime we need examine out attitude first before we blame everything.

Yes, i do apologize for the provocative tone of my remarks, but actually it is to stimulate discussion like what we are having here.
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the reason why migrant tends to hv higher tolerance level and can accept racism thrown to them in foreign soil is simple, discrimination happens everywhere, no doubt about it. So, being discriminated on foreign soil, they can take it but being discriminated by your own government when one was born here, worked here, paid tax and yet being treated like a 2nd class citizens!!! That, no human being can take it!! UBAH!!!!
sulifeisgreat
post Jun 17 2011, 04:12 PM

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u fr share value investing@buffet cum to props section ah? u oso sell, take money off table & invest izit? laugh.gif not bad!

'the global financial crisis is not hitting Malaysia hard enough' BCOS our banking lending standards r strict due to lessons learn from 1997 crisis, who wanna follow as per mbf & etc with high npl?

of coz there wil be a correction, but not tat big, those rich folks got money in fd wil snap up good bargain deals

'If someone just HOPING the price increase by paying too much without focus on the value itself, bear the consequences by being too greedy.'

AIYO, PLS USE COMMON SENSE LA, some props ridiculous price, I no buy la, but some new launches is priced reasonable & which part I say market not gonna crash? & buy every props in sight mad.gif pls provide link
Bobby C
post Jun 17 2011, 04:30 PM

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Seriously it is a no-brainer for those enter since late 2009 and make money. No need to shout, don't think you are smart, just pure luck.

Those entered at the bottom of the valley right after early/mid 2009, those I called champions. Still remember one rich guy told me, now is the time, now or never, once a life time opportunities, tat was during mid 2009. Me too conservative looking at other opportunities missing the boats. No regrets, it's yours it's yours. Some time gain, thankful if don't lose.

You can use FD as benchmark if for own stay. But if for rental, should use BLR. Capital appreciation is a bonus.

I can roughly read sulifeisgreat mind, I understand what type of tea he is drinking. You need to be in his shoe else like chicken talking to duck. brows.gif

Those who loss money in property many outside KV. Still remember 10yrs ago (time flies like yesterday) when we bought our first, first banker asked, 'where'? KV, no problem. Penang, you tell me which part. Other places, need approval not so simple case by case basis you can try.

When big mncs dumping money, we small fries no worries. flex.gif

When every ah soh, ah kow, tom d*** and hairy start dumping money, we are worry. shocking.gif

This post has been edited by Bobby C: Jun 17 2011, 04:38 PM
CKHong
post Jun 17 2011, 04:49 PM

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QUOTE(sulifeisgreat @ Jun 17 2011, 04:12 PM)
AIYO, PLS USE COMMON SENSE LA, some props ridiculous price, I no buy la, but some new launches is priced reasonable & which part I say market not gonna crash? & buy every props in sight  mad.gif pls provide link
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dun angry sad.gif i said u give me those impression nie.. didnt say u said those.. so dun have any link from me.. just my own instinct.. maybe my instinct cacat.. so might be inaccurate..
sulifeisgreat
post Jun 17 2011, 04:56 PM

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no angry la, we here hav healthy debate. as per bobby c says, diff objective, diff benchmark & chicken talking to duck
it seems we got generation gap, ok time I go for a massage by those really frenly chicken, which the selangor govt likes to giv out lesen laugh.gif & I m straight, I no play duck-duck wave.gif all guys & gals hav a fun weekend!

QUOTE(CKHong @ Jun 17 2011, 04:49 PM)
dun angry  sad.gif    i said u give me those impression nie..  didnt say u said those.. so dun have any link from me.. just my own instinct.. maybe my instinct cacat.. so might be inaccurate..
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cherroy
post Jun 17 2011, 05:29 PM

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We have healthy debate here.
Different people different view/opinion.

One doesn't need to agree on the other, merely can debate and explore how others thinking.
No one force any idea to anyone. smile.gif

There is never right or wrong, no one can see the future or can assure how future will be like.
lucerne
post Jun 17 2011, 09:13 PM

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i feel really funny ppl still arguing about if ppl make $ from prop or not. first they said if the prop will drop or not? now changed subject to invest prop made $ or not?? and try to justify their decisions/stand.


Added on June 17, 2011, 9:24 pm
QUOTE(sulifeisgreat @ Jun 17 2011, 04:56 PM)
no angry la, we here hav healthy debate. as per bobby c says, diff objective, diff benchmark & chicken talking to duck
it seems we got generation gap, ok time I go for a massage by those really frenly chicken, which the selangor govt likes to giv out lesen  laugh.gif & I m straight, I no play duck-duck  wave.gif all guys & gals hav a fun weekend!
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just sidetrack abit, actually there is no massage licence was given in the first place (then how to cancel their licence). all of them are illegal la. a business licence and massage licence is totally different.
i m really pity those massage operators. who want to operate illegally. same to childcare, kindergarten, why so many are illegal. coz it is difficult to get a licence. same to pub, bars etc... why ? u ask govt la..
i live in sg many yrs, the govt is more biz frenly, if u want to open massage, bars, disco, pub, just go apply, want 24 hr also can, just pay different fee. when there is demand there is supply so long it is legal activities.

This post has been edited by lucerne: Jun 17 2011, 09:24 PM
dumeort
post Jun 17 2011, 11:00 PM

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I followed this link around since it was started. When can i say "i told you so" ?

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