Hi debbieyss,

Once, we are regenerated, we have God's life and born of God (John 1:12). Yet, like every life, this life started out in a infant stage. The human life takes +-21 years to mature. The higher the life, the longer it takes (vegetable life->animal life->human life->God's life). How much more is the divine life in you? Many Christians were regenerated (born of God) but never had the divine revelation that he/she needs to grow in the divine life.

There is two aspects of God's salvation: judicial redemption (which we are very familiar with). The judicial aspect is according to the righteousness of God (Rom. 1:17a; 3:21-26; 9:30-31) as the procedure of God's salvation to satisfy the requirements of God's righteous law on the sinners. It is for sinners to be forgiven before God (Luke 24:47), washed (Heb. 1:3), justified (Rom. 3:24-25), reconciled to God (Rom. 5:10a), and sanctified unto God positionally (1 Cor. 1:2; Heb. 13:12), thereby entering into the grace of God for the accomplishment of the purpose of God's salvation.

However, redemption as the judicial aspect cannot carry out the purpose of God's salvation, because it is merely the procedure, not the purpose.
The organic aspect of God's salvation is through the life of God (Rom. 1:17b; Acts 11:18; Rom. 5:10b, 17b, 18b, 21b). Whereas the judicial aspect is according to the righteousness of God to accomplish God's redemption, the organic aspect is through the life of God to carry out God's salvation, including regeneration, shepherding, dispositional sanctification, renewing, transformation, building up, conformation, and glorification. This is the purpose of God's salvation to accomplish all that God wants to achieve in the believers in His economy through His divine life. This takes your WHOLE life if you let the Lord to work within you.

Some verses on growth to show I am not making this up :
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First Corinthians 3:6-7 says, "I planted, Apollos watered, but God made to grow; so that neither is the one who plants anything nor the one who waters, but the One who makes to grow, God." Verse 9 says, "For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's farm, God's building." Growth in these verses is not the growth in knowledge because here Paul speaks of a farm. Planting and watering are not related to knowledge. To plant is not to instruct but to nourish by supplying the plant with fertile soil. Likewise, to water is not to teach but to supply the plant with nutrients in the water. This is related to life.

Colossians 2:19 says, "Holding the Head, out from whom all the Body, by means of the joints and bands being supplied and knit together, grows with the growth of God." These verses show us that to grow is to grow with something. If a young boy does not eat or drink, he will have nothing with which to grow. One cannot grow with nothing. Rather, without something with which to grow, one will die. Dietitians tell us that we are what we eat. If we eat beef, we will be constituted with the meat of the cow. If we eat fish, we will be constituted with fish. We grow with the growth of God in us. AMAZING!..
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After being regenerated, we must be nourished with the supply of the milk of the word of God unto our daily, gradual salvation (1 Pet. 2:2). This gradual salvation is a daily salvation in which we are saved in the common situations of our daily living, both in big things and in small things. God’s organic salvation has a long span—from regeneration to glorification. Our regeneration is the initiation. Then we need to grow by feeding on Christ as the nourishing milk in the word of God unto maturity for glorification, unto salvation in full.

The problem today, most Christian are in the infant/children stage .. almost no different from worldly people. There is no experiences of sanctification from the world, lust or temper. There is no increase of God in them. This is not behavioral change but the element of God sanctifying and swallowing up our sinful, corrupted, fallen soul. This produces a transformation in life spoken by Paul in Rom 12:2 and 2 Cor 3:18.

We need to renewed in our being with God's life. The old man is absent of God's life. The new man has God as its element. If we are careless in our living, we will also be careless and rough in the way that we study the Bible. Before leaving the room where we are working, we may not return our chair to its original position under the desk or return the books to their proper place on the shelf from which we took them. Instead, we leave everything in a collapsed situation. This shows that we are short of renewing. When we are corrected again and again, we are renewed again and again. When we leave the room where we have been working, the things there should not be in a collapse but should be headed up in Christ. We need to be renewed in many small things. This renewing is to consummate God's intention in making the believers His new creation. A new man should be renewed, adjusted, corrected. Every mistake of ours belongs to our oldness. Why are we wrong? Because we are old. A new man is not wrong. A new man is always gentle, fine, and careful, especially in his relationships with others. This is not instantaneous but God dealing with us day by day.

This is the central truth that needs to be trumpeted out. I didn't touch at all on transformation, conformation and glorification ....

I felt my short sharing did no justice to the subject as when these matters were shared to me on the steps of God's organic salvation ... I heard and studied hundreds of messages and tried to experience them in my daily life.

But, I hope it did answer your question on why Christians has no revival. The real revival is to experience God's organic salvation daily.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Apr 14 2011, 11:22 AM

pehkay, thanks for your patience in answering my question.

My main question to ask is this: Can a christian who by his singular faith, through his faith in God and through his consistent prayer to God, turn the life problems to be good?

If yes, then all these life problems are nothing to him, because he can always turn to God and pray about that and patiently see how God changes all these troubles into blessing and live a blessed life.

If not, how to turn things to be better? If Jesus is the only one who can intercede on our behalf, if He is the one true God who is always in control of everything but we don't see things change even after many eager and consistent prayers, what's the point?

This post has been edited by debbieyss: Apr 14 2011, 12:22 PM

I guess I will address the first question only. From all my sharing, you still didn't get that there is no such thing as "...turn the life problems to be good". That is "religion" and not salvation. If it was, the greatest apostle, Paul, will have happy trouble-free life.

In 2 Cor. 1:4 Paul speaks of distresses. Literally the Greek word rendered distresses means narrowness of room; hence, straits, difficulties, distresses. Some translators even reverse the order of these words in verse 4, using distresses for afflictions, and afflictions for distresses. We may say that distresses are the inward sufferings which come as a reaction to the outward afflictions. Paul was in different kinds of troubles. This verse clearly indicates that Paul’s life was a life of affliction, calamity, straits, necessities, and distresses.

Verse 5 says, “In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labors, in watchings, in fastings.” The stripes refer to the beatings Paul received. In 11:23 he refers to “stripes excessively,” where the word excessively literally means above measure. In 11:24 Paul says, “From the Jews five times I received forty stripes less one.” Furthermore, according to Acts 16:23, in Philippi Paul and Silas had many stripes laid upon them and then were cast into prison (Acts 16:23).

In 2 Cor. 1, verses 8 and 9 Paul said, "For we do not want you to be ignorant, brothers, of our affliction which befell us in Asia, that we were excessively burdened, beyond our power, so that we despaired even of living. Indeed we ourselves had the response of death in ourselves, that we should not base our confidence on ourselves but on God, who raises the dead." Paul and his co-workers were pressed down beyond their strength. They had the response, the sentence, of death in themselves. To their consideration, they had to die. This led them to put their trust not in themselves but in God who raises the dead.

SALVATION NOT BEING PROSPERITY BUT THE LORD HIMSELF

The Lord came to the earth for man to gain Him; everything outside of Him is just religion. We should not consider prosperity as a small thing; to be prosperous is a very personal matter. Many have believed in the Lord for prosperity, but little do they know that prosperity is a matter of religion. The Lord's salvation is not a matter of prosperity; rather, the Lord's salvation is altogether apart from prosperity. In the first century, because of their faith in the Lord, countless Christians suffered the loss of their homes, their loved ones, and even their precious lives. Were they for their own prosperity? Of course not! The more faith they had in the Lord, the less prosperity they had in their human life. In the end they even sacrificed themselves and were martyred. Not prosperity, but martyrdom-this is the Lord's salvation. Prosperity belongs to religion. The Lord's salvation is the Lord Himself.
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(But don't be confused, that we will go and look for sufferings ... this is another extreme and stupid).

Romans 8:28 says, "We know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to the purpose." In Greek the word translated "all things" refers to all matters, all persons, and all things. God the Father is sovereign and He arranges everything. He knows what we need. In His sovereignty, He causes all things, all matters, and all persons to work together for good to those who love Him and who have been called by Him to the end that He may fulfill His purpose. Don't be deceived that "for good" here refers to GOOD things. No! Everything ... all things, usually, suffering, will be used.

God has determined our destiny beforehand, and this destiny cannot be fulfilled without the divine arrangement that causes all things to work together for us. Our destiny is to be conformed to the image of the firstborn Son of God (Rom. 8:29). We are not yet fully in the image of the firstborn Son of God, but God the Father is causing all things to work together for good so that His purpose of having many sons conformed to the image of the firstborn Son may be fulfilled.

Because God's intention is to bring us into full sonship, we need to grow. No doubt, growth comes from inward nourishment, but this nourishment needs the coordination of the outward environment. Hence, there is the need of God's sovereignty to arrange our environment so that all things may work together for our good according to His purpose.

Example of Job:

Job was in the realm of building up something that was wrong. He was building up himself in his perfection, uprightness, and integrity. He thought that he was absolutely right. He was proud of what he had built up, and he trusted in that and glorified himself in that. That was his robe to cover his entire being, and that was his crown to be his glory.

Actually, Job was wrong. God in His eternal economy has no desire to build up these things. Rather, He considers all these things as frustrations and intends to strip them away from us, consuming them bit by bit. When everything is stripped away, then you will see God, and He will attract you to receive Him. Then you will have God's nature, life, element, essence, and even His being. This will cause a metabolic change within you to transform you from the present form of your human being to another form, the form of the divine being. As a result of this transformation, you will be a person reflecting God, that is, expressing Him and dispensing Him to others.


A brother's sharing (a bit off topic ... might be comforting ..)

God the Father is sovereign and He arranges everything. He knows how many hairs you need and how many children you should have. Do not complain about your children, for God will not give you more or less than you need. He is sovereign. He knows. He knows whether you need obedient children or naughty children. He knows whether you need boys or girls. Again and again I say that He knows. He causes all things, all matters, and all persons to work together for your good. It seems that God sacrifices everyone for you. To the wife her husband is a sacrifice, and to the husband his wife is a sacrifice. To the children the parents are a sacrifice, and to the parents the children are a sacrifice. Who can do such a work? Only God. I have told the Lord, “Lord, why do You sacrifice everyone just for me?” I have the inward sensation that all the brothers with whom I coordinate and even all the churches are sacrifices for me. Nevertheless, when you suffer, I suffer more. When the wife suffers loss, the husband suffers more, and when the children suffer, the parents suffer more. Praise the Lord that God causes all things, all matters, and all persons to work together for good to those who love Him and who have been called by Him to the end that He may fulfill His purpose.

God has determined our destiny beforehand, and this destiny can never be fulfilled without the divine arrangement which causes all things to work together for us. Our destiny is to be conformed to the image of the firstborn Son of God. We are not yet fully in the image of the firstborn Son of God, but God the Father is planning, molding, and performing by causing all things to work together for good. Praise the Lord! While we are growing, He is molding.

We all should be comforted. If you have a nice wife, praise the Lord for your nice wife. If you have a difficult wife, praise the Lord even more for your difficult wife. Whether you have a nice wife or a difficult wife, a nice husband or a difficult husband, obedient children or naughty children—whatever you have you should be comforted. You should tell the Lord, “Lord, I can make and I have made many mistakes, but You can never be mistaken. Even my mistakes are in Your hands. If You do not allow me to make a mistake, You just move Your little finger and change the situation and I will not make one. Everything is in Your hands.” Therefore, we all must be comforted.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Apr 14 2011, 03:30 PM

pehkay, I have finished reading your replies.

I need some times to digest it. Thansk a lot~

Let me try,

A teacher have a game with the kindergarden students, It is a team game. so, the kids find their best friend to partner with. Everyone find a good partner so that they have a higher chance in winning the game. And they make a lot of noise.
The teacher can't tolerate the noise. It is a word puzzle game, and those best grade student is in one team, and the other team will have those naughty student together. It is imbalance. The teacher then manually change and set a new partner for them.
Of course the kids dislike it, but they make no noise. The game continued and it turn out to be a fair game. The kids make new friend, and they help one another. The teacher is happy with the result.

can?

see la you wented penang never ask me out. deswai you foreverarone one

So you are saying it's God that seperates men and divorce each loving couple?

I *think he still reserve the right to do so.

Ummmmmmmmmmm............question here............I keep sinning although I know its wrong and I dare not ask god for forgiveness coz I feel guilty............so how??? I'm trying to change but its hard as hell

Oh, last week only, my pasture preach -> those who overcome will have <good life> , those without, will <bad life/hell> you double check with your bible. forget which verse liao. pehkay should know

Haiz..............I feel guilty I'll pray 2night

And He will punish those whom He divorce and separates?

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Added on April 14, 2011, 11:16 pmAnd this is God of peace?

This post has been edited by debbieyss: Apr 14 2011, 11:16 PM

if you dont sin then jesus would have did for nothing. remember son, jesus died for our sins to clean our slate. so ko buat rilek je its ok mang

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Added on April 14, 2011, 11:24 pmbtw what do you christians think about this?

http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1835861

This post has been edited by mekboyz: Apr 14 2011, 11:24 PM

The problem is I purposely do it although I know its wrong

And those NGOs really getting on my nerves.............they don't own the language

wahhh pehkay, why you so smart 1? sometimes really kennot brain your explanation also, which church do you go? i am kinda curios

but it still comes from our consequences right? He doesnt makes people divorce

couple are those who make themselves divorce, if the couple divorce, its God's plan. but if the couple manage to hold on, its still God's plan right?

but thinking back, this is a lil bit unfair to us la as a human being, sometimes is out of control, maybe due to 3rd party or other reason
thats why jesus was meant for us, He didnt died for justice, but to save us

my 2 cent only

This post has been edited by thken: Apr 15 2011, 12:05 AM

Did He say that? I do a search already. He won't punish the woman.

-Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.” matthew 19

same goes as Mark 10.


man hearts were hard, and they do their own way. not woman's fault, not God's fault

This post has been edited by Jellymaker: Apr 15 2011, 12:03 AM

Thanks for both of you replying my post. But still, it's unfair and painful to the women.

I never went to penang wor

When Eve contemplated the goodness of the forbidden fruit, and gave it to Adam inspite of God's orders, its plainly unfair for God to blame Adam

eh, when woman cheats, divorces the husband and get half his assets, dont u think its painful for man too?

So like the lady tempted the man, the man should stand firm and not to be tempted right? Same case to Adam and Eve, Adam should stand firm.

Yes, I do think it's painful for man, too. But I try to deal by case to case basis now. And we have to see what's the reason the women cheat. Anyway, this is not the dicussion topic here...

This post has been edited by debbieyss: Apr 15 2011, 09:39 AM