Instead of praying and ASKING FOR SOMETHING, why not just pray for forgiveness for your sins and give thanks for what you already have?

That's right. Stop praying for the sake of ASKING, and EXPECTING.

Just pray. Stop asking for things.

And instead, try giving instead.

This post has been edited by Deadlocks: Apr 8 2011, 10:50 PM

i believe in God. because when i was young about to sit for UPSR, i knew peanuts. so i prayed. and miraculously, i scored 3As 2Bs.

and this time when play station came out. i was real gutted because everyone had one, and im still playing sega saturn. so i prayed again. to my surprise, my dad already bought one but he kept it until my birthday.

and last year, i was real broke. as usual. i prayed. and the number 4967 appeared in my dream that night. ive never bought nor gamble in any form of lottery prior. but i did. it was God's will. and that night i was 60k richer.

God is great! believe it!

Are you being sarcastic?

This post has been edited by Deadlocks: Apr 8 2011, 10:53 PM

excuse me? what interest did you think i had by being sarcastic?

have mercy on those who doubt, as can be read in jude 1:22

u troll?

Lol, another advocate. Either you're young, or you've just been converted to Christianity.

so much negative vibe. so much.

No worries.

Dear Debbie , you should not be focusing so much of the problems here on earth. Every problem we face and we question God is absolutely fine. God wont mind. But I hope that none of us dwells so much on a problem that it becomes part of our innerself. We become what we behold. If we dwell and keep thinking abt negative problems, it tends to affect other areas of our life.

I just pray from the very bottom of my heart, God gives you wisdom and understanding to see pass all these.

I know lots of marriages and many other things in life goes wrong. Its terrible. Is God allowing all these sufferings? Surely not. It is not God's nature and not ever in His heart to see suffering.

But God cannot erase or over rule ones decision that will lead/cause suffering. Got does not plan for suffering. He does not marry two lives together that will make discord. He does know what ones choices, inclinations, favourites, and thoughts are. But He still cannot disrespect one's freewill of choice to choose and go into something if that somethings still brings problems upon that person.

You know Debbie, since you are aware that such problems exist, have you prayed for these troubled people? That you are so burdened to see these ppl set free from their problems?

I believe the power of your prayer (not just for yourself) but for others is extremely effective. You wana pray in whatever way you want to God, I am sure He will listen.

God does not reject any prayers. He keeps it. And highly likely He will send an answer.

The only issue is : Did we hear that answer correctly? Did we receive that answer properly? Sometimes He doesnt give a solution right on. He gives us a choice/action to take to achieve that solution. God answers and gives solutions in many different ways. IF He kept giving a straight solution its like Him being a vending machine everytime we put money (our prayers) in it. God is not like that.

I still pray God reveals to you. In the most amazing powerful ways..........may He show you something good.

Bless you brother for such a long lengthy answer

Hey bro, if u want to understand better, its simple : You can ask God to help u understand through Him.

You may/may not get it all now. Its fine. Alot of us cant really get it all too. God is just too big and too amazing.

Amen

Bless you brother

Another Amen to that bro.

your prayers were answered with a NO or LATER. dont expect your prayers to go as you want all the time. Never work that way

Seek for the Kingdom of God. Go after God's will. Not yours.

To debbieyss:
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Sorry, if I "bypassed" your question ...... note that in my sharing, my goal to help you to see higher, deeper truth concerning God's purpose than to deal with these questions directly. Usually, if we have spiritual light to see God's purpose, these questions will become er... irrelevant .... Well, to address the matter of human marriage ... we need to see it is a shadow of what is in God's heart.

So here goes:
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The Bible is a romance. Have you ever heard this before? It may sound secular and unreligious. However, if you have entered into the deep thought of the Bible, you will realize that the Bible is a romance, in the most pure and the most holy sense, of a universal couple.

The male of this couple is God Himself. Although He is a divine Person, He desires to be the male of this universal couple. This very God, after a long process, has resulted in Christ as the Bridegroom.

The female of this couple is a corporate human being, God's redeemed people, including all the saints of the Old Testament and the New Testament. After a long process this corporate person results in the New Jerusalem as the Bride.

This Romance in the Old Testament

This holy romance is repeatedly revealed throughout the Old Testament. Immediately after the record of God's creation, we find the story of a marriage (Gen. 2:21-25). In this marriage Adam is the type of Christ as the husband, and Eve is the type of the church as the wife. In Ephesians 5 we see the couple typified by Adam and Eve-Christ and the church. The type of Adam and Eve reveals that the persons of this universal couple must be of the same source. God created one person, Adam, and out from this person a wife came. Eve was not created separately by God; she came out of Adam. Eve was made out of a rib, a piece of bone, that came from Adam, indicating that both Adam and Eve proceeded out of the same source. In this universal couple the wife must come out of the husband. Likewise, the church must come out of Christ. The two persons of this couple must be of the same source. They also must be of one nature. Furthermore they must share one common life. Adam's nature and life were also Eve's. Eve had the same nature and life as Adam. The two persons of this couple were of one source, of one nature, and had the same one life. Without doubt, they also had one living. When God said, "It is not good that the man should be alone;....", indirectly it is God saying that it is not good for God to be alone.

This couple is the secret of the universe. The secret of the whole universe is that God and His chosen ones are to be one couple. Hallelujah! We, God's chosen ones, and God are of one source, of one nature, and have one life. Now we also need to have one living. We are not living by ourselves or for ourselves; we are living with God and for God, and God is living with us and for us. Hallelujah!

Several times in the Old Testament God referred to Himself as the Husband and to His people as His wife (Isa. 54:5; 62:5; Jer. 2:2; 3:1, 14; 31:32; Ezek. 16:8; 23:5; Hosea 2:7, 19). God was desirous of being a husband and of having His people as His wife. Many times the prophets spoke of God as the Husband and of His people as His wife. Humanly speaking, we always think of God in a religious way as the Almighty, feeling compelled to worship Him. But do you married brothers expect this from your wives? Our God certainly is the Almighty God, and, as His creatures, we must worship Him. Many verses speak about worshipping God in this way. However, have you never read in Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and Hosea that God desires to be a husband? In ancient times God's people built the temple and established a system of worship complete with priesthood and sacrifices. One day God intervened and spoke through Isaiah saying, "I am tired of this. I am weary with your sacrifices. I want you to love Me. I am your Husband, and you must be My wife. I want to have a marriage life. I am lonely. I need you. I need you, My chosen people, to be My wife."

The Full Romance in Song of Songs

Among the 39 books in the Old Testament, there is one book called the Song of Songs. Song of Songs is more than a romance; it is a fantastic romance. Have you ever read a romance like the Song of Songs? As far as I am concerned, the Song of Songs is the finest romance. It speaks of two people who fall in love. In Song of Songs we find a woman falling in love with a man saying, "Oh, that he might kiss me with the kisses of his mouth. I am thirsty for this." Immediately, her beloved is at hand, and the pronoun changes from "he" to "you" (S. S. 1:2-3). "Your name is sweet, and your love is better than wine. Draw me, my beloved. Don't teach me, draw me. I don't need a pastor or a preacher. I don't need an elder or even an apostle. I need you to draw me. Draw me, we will run after you." What a romance!

In the case of Adam and Eve we saw that the couple had one source, one nature, one life, and one living. In Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and Hosea we saw that God desires to have a wife who will live together with Him. God longs to have a marriage life, to have divinity live together with humanity. But His people failed Him. In Song of Songs, however, we see the genuine marriage life. What is the secret of such a romance? The secret is that the wife must take her husband not only as her life and her living, but as her person.

(too much I can share from SS)

This Romance in the New Testament

Now we need to consider this romance as it is portrayed in the New Testament.

There is no doubt that the gospels give us a full record of Christ as our Savior. However, have you noticed that the four gospels also tell us that Christ has come as the Bridegroom (Matt. 9:15; Mark 2:19; Luke 5:34; John 3:29)? He has come for His bride. When the disciples of John the Baptist saw many people forsaking John to follow the Lord Jesus, John told them not to be troubled, that Christ is the Bridegroom, and that all the increase belongs to Him (John 3:30). The Bridegroom has come for the bride. What is the bride? The bride is the increase of Christ. Each of the four gospels presents Christ as the Bridegroom coming for the bride.

In the epistles Christ and the church are portrayed as husband and wife (Eph. 5:25-32; 2 Cor. 11:2). The epistles clearly liken Christ and the church to husband and wife. If we know what is unfolded in the epistles, we will see that Christ is revealed in them as our Husband and that the believers are revealed as His counterpart, as His wife. We must be one with Him in source, in nature, in life, and in daily living.

In the book of Revelation Christ is unveiled as having a wedding (Rev. 19:7) and the New Jerusalem is presented as His wife (Rev. 21:2, 9). In chapter 19 of Revelation we see that Christ will enjoy a wedding feast, and in chapter 21 we see that the New Jerusalem will be His wife. In Revelation 21 and 22, the last two chapters of the Bible, we see that the ultimate consummation of the whole Bible is this universal couple-the husband and the wife.

Furthermore, the Bible tells us that this couple with the two persons are one flesh (Gen. 2:24; Eph. 5:31). Adam and Eve were one flesh. Since they were one flesh, they were also one man. Christ and His chosen people are one, universal, corporate man with Christ, the Husband, as the Head (Eph. 4:15) and with the church, the wife, as the Body (Eph. 1:22-23). Eventually, these two become one, all-inclusive, universal, corporate man. In Ephesians 5 the church is presented as a wife, and in Ephesians 1 the church is presented as the Body of Christ. She is Christ's wife and Christ's body. Christ is her Husband and her Head. So, Christ and the church are a universal, corporate man. This is the kernel of the divine revelation in the Word of God. The kernel is simply a couple and a man: a couple with the Triune God as the Husband and His chosen people as the wife, and a man with Christ as the Head and with His chosen people as the Body. This is the central revelation of the whole Bible. In the couple the main aspect is love, and in the man the main aspect is life. Christ and the church, as a couple, are a matter of love, and Christ and the church, as a man, are a matter of life.

Seeing this, do we still treat our marriage so lightly?

This post has been edited by pehkay: Apr 9 2011, 01:34 PM

Great to see the Christian Lounge is back up again

I have one question....if a Christian says that the Bible is not the inspired word of God, and that they're just very good documentations... what to do? I got really scared of course, because if the Bible is not the inspired word of God then everything can be doubted and refuted.

If you ask me, many people did not read the word of God as it is intended to be. Which is to be in Spirit.

Hello!

The Bible is a patchwork of many different books with many different genres. It contains history, allegory and poetry among other things.

As to whether the Bible is the inspired Word of God, this is a belief formed throughout Church History and is the claim of the author of 2 Timothy 3:16, for example.

Nevertheless, the Bible should not just be accepted blindly and must of course be tested according to its authenticity and historicity. I can recommend this work by F.F. Bruce for starters (talks about the New Testament mainly, but is a good overview on this issue nonetheless): http://www.bible.ca/b-new-testament-documents-f-f-bruce.htm

This post has been edited by lycaphim: Apr 9 2011, 02:11 PM

hi pehkay, thanks for the lengthy reply. I read it, but still, it seems like not answering my question

The question i ask is not how heavily or lightly we should treat a marriage. I'm asking:
1. If the man is predestined to betray, why would God allows the couple to get married?
2. If the husband betrays, can the wife do anything to patch things up?

i suspect debbysys is trying to troll us god-fearing christians

To debbieyss pt 2: predestination is a can of worm .... . On the previous thread, we can safety say it is not God's desire to have broken marriages / predestined a spouse to leave ... (strange thought).

So, here I am again not answering your question on predestination per se, but my hope is that you will see something higher, that is, predestination is FOR God's purpose.

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Scripture reading: Eph 1:4-5

In a strict sense, predestination has nothing to do with you but of God's desire to have sons. We have been selected and called for God's purpose (Rom. 9:11). In eternity past, God predestinated us unto sonship, marking out a destiny for His chosen ones before the foundation of the world. The goal of God’s predestination is sonship. We were predestinated to be sons of God even before we were created. Hence, as God’s creatures, we need to be regenerated by Him so that we may participate in His life to be His sons. Sonship implies not only the life, but also the position of the son. God’s marked-out ones have the life to be His sons and the position to inherit Him (Eph 1:4)

God predestinated us unto sonship according to the good pleasure of His will, which is His purpose (Eph 1:4). This reveals that God has a will in which is His good pleasure. God predestinated us to be His sons according to this pleasure, according to the desire of His heart. The book of Ephesians speaks not from the standpoint of man’s sinful condition, as does the book of Romans, but from the standpoint of the good pleasure of God’s heart. Hence, it is deeper and higher.

In verse 4 we see that God has chosen us to be holy. However, to be holy is the procedure, not the goal. The goal is sonship. We have been predestinated unto sonship. In other words, God has chosen us to be holy so that we might be His sons. Thus, to be holy is the process, the procedure, whereas to be sons of God is the goal. God does not merely want a group of holy people; He desires many sons. It may seem to us that it is adequate for God to choose us to be holy. We may be fully satisfied with this. Nevertheless, God has chosen us to be holy for a purpose, and this purpose is that we might be the sons of God.

Let us take baking a cake as an example. When a sister bakes a cake, she firstly prepares the dough by mixing various ingredients together with flour. As the ingredients are mixed in with the dough, we may say that the dough is a picture of sanctification. First the dough is separated; then it is sanctified through having various ingredients added to it. After the sister mixes the dough, she shapes it into a certain form. Likewise, God first separates us, and then puts Himself, the Father, the Son, and the Spirit, into us. Then follows the process of mixing. To say that God mixes us means that He disturbs us. We may like to have a tranquil church life, but often God intervenes to turn things upside down. Nevertheless, this is the normal Christian church life.

To be holy is to be mingled with God. God sanctifies us by putting Himself into us and then mingling us with His nature. This is a matter of nature, of having our nature transformed with His. We were born human, natural, but God wants us to be divine. The only way this can take place is through having the divine nature put into our being and mingled with it. In this way, God makes us holy. Thus, sanctification is a procedure to transform our nature. This, however, is not the goal. The goal is related to being formed or shaped. This is the reason that along with God’s choosing us to be holy, there is the need of His predestinating us to be sons. To be holy is a matter of nature, but to be sons is a matter of being formed. God’s sons are people conformed to a particular form or shape.

The golden lampstand in Revelation 1 illustrates this. In nature, the lampstand is golden, but in form it is a lampstand. In order for a golden lampstand to be produced, the material must first be pure gold. This refers to the procedure. But the goal of this procedure is the producing of the lampstand with a definite form. In like manner, to be made holy is the procedure for us to become sons of God.

When I saw that holiness was for sonship, I said to myself, “How could you ever have been satisfied with holiness as an end in itself? You can only be satisfied with being a son of God.” Thus, we are not only holy, but also the sons of God. We have not only God’s holy nature, but also the Person of His Son. Therefore, we are not merely holy lumps, but also sons of God.

All Christians know that the genuine believers in Christ are the church. But the church is not merely a group of saved ones. The church is a collective people who have been made holy in nature to be the sons of God. This collective people must be sanctified, saturated, and mingled with God’s nature. Then they will be the sons of God. Such a people is the church.

The situation of today’s Christianity is far removed from this. In Christianity we see groups of people who are saved, but who are still common and worldly, not having any holiness whatever. Furthermore, they do not live like sons of God. Rather, many of them live like sons of sinners. Although so many believe in the Lord Jesus, have been washed in the blood, and have been regenerated by the Spirit, they are still worldly and common, with no mark of holiness in their living. They are absolutely the same as their neighbors, friends, and relatives. Nevertheless, they talk about being the church. What a shame to God, and what a shame to the church! The church is constituted as a collective people who have been separated unto God and who are saturated with the nature of God and fully sanctified to live like sons of God.

(in another side note)

The New Testament clearly reveals that the purpose of God's selection, predestination, and calling is sonship (Eph. 1:4-5). We have been predestinated unto sonship. We are not common sons; we are royal sons, sons of the royal family who are destined to be kings. Romans 8:29 says, "Whom He foreknew, He also predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son." This is God's purpose. God's purpose in selecting, predestinating, and calling us is to make pitiful sinners into royal sons so that, after the process of transformation has been completed, we may reign as kings.

Genesis 1:26 reveals that God's purpose in His creation of man was that man might express Him in His image and represent Him with His dominion. The New Testament also says that we have been made priests and kings (Rev. 1:6; 20:6). As priests, we bear the image of God to express Him, and as kings, we have the dominion of God to represent Him. During the millennial kingdom, we shall express Him in His image as His priests and we shall exercise His dominion with His authority to rule over the earth as kings. Now, we are daily undergoing the process of transformation that we might bear the full image of God and exercise His authority.

If we look at ourselves, we shall say, "The more I look at myself, the less I look like a son of God, much less like a king. How pitiful I am! Although I have been saved for many years, I'm still so poor." Praise the Lord that we realize that we are so poor. Do not be disappointed or discouraged. This is why we are under the process of God's transformation.

Of the fifty chapters in the book of Genesis, twenty-five and a half are devoted to the record of Jacob with Joseph. In these chapters we see that Jacob was under God's dealings and discipline. Everyone who was involved with or related to Jacob became a means whereby God dealt with him. God used his father, mother, brother, uncle, wives, and children. But when Jacob finally came out of the oven, he became a prince of God.

What was the purpose of Jacob's experience? Was it for him to have peace, joy, and a happy life? If we say this, Jacob would reply, "I don't agree with you. In my whole life I have not had much peace, not even when I was in my mother's womb. God did not put me first; I had to fight for it. And when I lost the fight, I had no peace. I cheated my brother, and he wanted to kill me. Then my mother helped me to flee to my uncle Laban. Laban was much more skillful than I in cheating. Don't talk to me about peace. I haven't had much peace or joy, but I've had many dealings." God's purpose for Jacob was not to give him peace, joy, and a happy life and then to take him to heaven. God's purpose was to deal with this pitiful supplanter until he was transformed into a prince of God bearing His image to express Him and exercising His dominion to represent Him. This is God's goal. When we come to the end of Genesis, we see that Israel was exactly this type of person. When he saw Pharaoh, he did not say a word. He simply stretched forth his hands and blessed him (47:7, 10). Jacob bore the image of God, expressing Him in a full way. Furthermore, through Joseph, he was the one who had dominion over the whole earth, representing God on the earth. Thus, at the end of Genesis we see God's goal, the goal of His selection. Today we are on the way of Jacob. We have all been called, justified, and are enjoying God's grace. At the same time, we are under God's dealings. Not only is God's little finger upon us, but also His thumb. This is God's dealing and God's transformation. This will make us not only a son of God, but also an Israel, a prince of God.

(still a lot to share ... but ....

Seeing Christ as the only hope in my life, I just want to know if there is anything I can do through Him to get things go smoothly.

If you are to ask me to accept whatever problems happen to me, then might as well I believe in Buddha or other gods, they also teach the same thing - accept the problems.

you best be trollan boi. there is only one lord our saviour jesus christ