If you gone through things without knowing God's purpose ........ here is some reading which helps me ... but again, you have to see it from the viewpoint of God's perspective in gaining us (Jacob's experiences)

What is the distinction between the living God and the God of resurrection? Because, while the living God can perform many acts on man's behalf, the nature of the living God cannot blend with the nature of man. When, on the other hand, the God of resurrection works, His very nature is wrought into the nature of man. Brothers and sisters, please note carefully that even when the living God has performed some act on your behalf, after that act as before it, He is still He and you are still you. His working on your behalf does not impart anything of His nature to you. The living God can work on behalf of man, but the nature of the living God cannot unite with the nature of man. On the other hand, when the God of resurrection works, He communicates Himself to man by that which He does for him. Let me cite two illustrations.

When the children of Israel were in a hopeless plight in the wilderness, the living God opened a way for them across the Red Sea. The dividing of the Red Sea was a miracle which demonstrated to them that God was the living God, yet that miracle performed for them did not bring any measure of the life of God into them. They witnessed many other divine acts in the wilderness—e.g., God gave them bread from heaven and water out of the rock—but despite those and other wonders performed by God for them, nothing of God Himself was thereby imparted to them.

In contrast to this, the apostle Paul testifies to knowing not only the living God, but also the God of resurrection. Paul was so sorely tried that he despaired of life, but it was thus he learned to trust in the God who raises the dead. When the God of resurrection acted on his behalf to raise him from the dead, that divine act not only accomplished something for Paul; it also communicated God's own nature to Paul.

The miracles wrought for Israel in the wilderness were acts of the living God; but despite the many miracles wrought for them, nothing of God was wrought into their constitutions. The miracles wrought for Paul were wrought by the God of resurrection, and each fresh miracle wrought a fresh measure of God Himself into the life of Paul.

The miracles wrought for Israel in the wilderness were acts of the living God; but despite the many miracles wrought for them, nothing of God was wrought into their constitutions. The miracles wrought for Paul were wrought by the God of resurrection, and each fresh miracle wrought a fresh measure of God Himself into the life of Paul. Alas! though generations have passed since the resurrection, many Christians are almost ignorant of the God of resurrection and are only interested in the living God. Let me try and bring this matter home to our daily lives.

A brother becomes seriously ill. His case is considered hopeless, but God has mercy on him and works a miracle on his behalf so that he recovers. Thereafter, he testifies to the fact that God is the living God. Yet within a short time of his recovery he plunges right into the world. Even when he is living in the world, he still remembers that God is the living God and that God preserved his life from death. But he has experienced no increase of divine life; he has only experienced a miracle of healing.

Another brother becomes ill. Day after day passes without a vestige of improvement. For long he keeps hovering at the edge of the grave. Then, when he has completely despaired of life, in the depths of his being he gradually becomes aware of God. Resurrection life begins to work within, and he awakens to the fact that this resurrection life is a life that can overcome all affliction and can even swallow up death. He is still conscious of much weakness and is sorely tested; nevertheless, the realization deepens that God is not working to make His might known in external acts, but is working to impart Himself. Light breaks upon him gradually, and gradually health returns. This brother does not just experience a healing; he comes into a new experience of God. The other brother could testify to a miracle wrought in his body, and shortly after could plunge right into the world; but if this brother gives a word of testimony there is nothing sensational about it, and there is no stress on the healing; yet, you meet God in his life.


...............


What is the significance of suffering? This, that the devastation it brings to the old creation provides an opportunity for the God of resurrection to impart Himself to His creatures, so that they emerge from the death process with a divine element in their constitution. The primary purpose of suffering in this universe, particularly as it relates to the children of God, is that through it the very nature of God may be wrought into the nature of man. "If indeed our outward man is decaying, yet our inward man is being renewed day by day." Through a process of outward decay an inward process is taking place that is adding a new constituent to our lives.

Beloved brothers and sisters, through hardship and pressure a divine element is being wrought into the very fabric of our beings, so that we cease to be colorless Christians, but have a heavenly hue imparted to our lives that was lacking before. Whatever else suffering may effect in this universe is incidental; this is primary—to bring those whom the living God has made possessors of created life into the uncreated life of the God of resurrection. It is in the death experiences which come through suffering that the life of the creature is blended with the life of the Creator. We may know the living God without such drastic experiences, but only through death can we come to an experimental knowledge of the God of resurrection.

Suffering is the God-appointed lot of the Christian. The Christian's happiness is not to be found in external things, but in learning to enjoy God Himself in the midst of trial. Paul and Silas could rejoice and sing His praises while they were in prison, because their happiness did not come from outer circumstances, but from an inner enjoyment of God. In Paul's short letter to the Philippians, written during his imprisonment, there are over a score of references to joy. In deep distress he could still be joyful because in his affliction he was learning to know Christ, to appropriate Him and to enjoy Him. His outward circumstances were all conducive to sorrow, but it was in sorrow that Christ was imparted to him as the source of his joy.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Apr 9 2011, 02:37 PM

1. A man is not really predestined to betray. A man chooses if he wants to betray. That is much influenced by alot of factors (past hurts/him being betrayed himself by others/strong desires or lust for other things other than marriage/etc). So therefore because of his past, probably thats why he in the end betrays others. And again it is said, God allowed because He respects the freewill of the couple to join in marriage. God cannot force the marriage to be stopped. If God sees the marriage will be bad, He still cannot over rule the choice ppl make.

Your question goes the same for alot of us. It is not a Why God Allows question. It is more of a Are We Practising Enough Wisdom and Counsel before getting married. Thats probably why in every church there are PRE-marriage counsel and helplines to avoid this sort of issues.

God respects the choices of His creations. He cannot force. He cannot take back. BUT HE DOES ALLOW U-TURNS if we make a mistake.

2. YES. Seek Godly counsel is the first step towards healing and restoration. Go to a pastor, one with experience handling marriage issues. This is the wisest move a wife can do in this kind of situation. Get lots and lots of support from church members closest, esp those who are married. Pray together. Secondly know that God is always faithful. He does not leave anyone alone. Probably sometimes we are the ones who left God first. HOpefully that is not the case. (I answer based on a Christian context.)

This you have to surrender and lay down your life. Throw everything that doesnt help you listen/advance/expand/explore with God further.

The basic idea is first KNOW GOD AS A RELATIONSHIP FIRST. you dont need to be superwoman or wondergirl and try help things out for God when you really cannot. I know your heart has a heavy burden to see many of these sufferings end. But know that God is faithful and is in control. It is not our job to change lives or be the superhero. That is Gods job. He does all the miracles signs wonders and transformations. NOT us. We do the possible (sharing the Word, share the same love we experience with God with others, be good testimonies, evangelize, teach young generation, bless and pray). Let God be God and let Him do the hardwork for you.

You dont have to feel useless if things dont go your way or your prayers dont get answered. God might have other plans. Or sometimes the effect of the prayer takes time. It may not be instant.

God said "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be filled"

Wisdom yah. You dont need to help God to get things done. But you can interceed (pray on behalf of people) which is good.

Problems happen for sure here in life. If it happens fine. But are we to let the problems bug us? No. We should take authority which was given by God to overcome circumstances. We are not to sit and just accept. No. We are to go into the battle front and take the bull by its horns.

We have a God that backs us up. We have a God who is gracious. We have a God who is comforting. Jesus had lots of problems. He was tempted to prove He was God. He denied the devil. He commanded the devil to leave. So we can use the name of Jesus to overcome problems.

We can believe for instant solution (depending on the amount of faith one has. But even then, God said that even faith as small as a mustard seed is more than enough for Him to use it to do miracles.) but if no instant solution comes, just know that Gods hand is still upon His people who put faith trust in Him. The most important thing is , amidst all these problems, do we still look to Jesus and love Him?

So my definite answer is, if there is a problem. report it to God. Tell the problem how big is God, not tell God how big is the problem.

Be blessed. =)

This post has been edited by Pinarello: Apr 9 2011, 04:22 PM

The new F Word in church.

Be blessed =)

Hi pehkay, my questions are not answered...

Pinarello, thanks for your comments but I am afraid it's not convincing to me, and all the "solutions" or "preventions" you suggested are too "theory" to me.

Dear Debbie,

I'm sorry to hear that the people around you or news that you may have heard,
particularly man are being unfaithful to their loving wives. But that does not mean
all man are like that. And that does not necessary means that it will happen to you.

You said 1. If the man is predestined to betray, why would God allows the couple to get married?
But what does the Word of God says? In Matt 19:6,
So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”

The verse states that it is not the intention of God Himself the separation of the husband and his wife.
Therefore, a man is not predestined to betray his wife, but the Bible calls us in Colossians 3:19,
Husbands, love your wives and do not be bitter toward them.

(Note that in verse 18, it says 18 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.)

Yes, if the husband is notti or betrays his wife, let not the wife turn away from him. Yes, it really
hurts, but let us learn to forgive, even in that situation. No, I'm not saying this b'coz I'm a man,
but based on what is said in Matt 19:6, let us not separate it.
That does not also give the excuse to man to fool around, but
to repent of his ways, and learn to embrace his wife again.

Hope this helps

Of course ... ... it was never to answer your question ....

It is to bring you out of your present human situation and to look from God's perspective of His heart pleasure.

Int the end, God will use everything from our friends, boss, family, husband, wife, environment, sufferings etc just to gain you to be a matured son of God in the divine life. Everything is in the Father's hand.

Jacob was like that. Paul was too. And many more in front of us.

It is evident that Job and his friends did not see the positive aspect of God's economy in dealing with His holy people. That is, God wants to strip, not to judge, His holy ones that He might gain them so that they might gain Him more.

Job's friends thought that what he was suffering was a matter of God's judgment. However, Job's sufferings were not God's judgment but God's stripping. The Sabeans took away Job's oxen and donkeys, the "fire of God" devoured his sheep, the Chaldeans took his camels, and a great wind caused the death of his sons and daughters (Job 1:13-19). All these things were God's stripping, but Job and his friends regarded them as God's judgment. Throughout the centuries, many readers of the book of Job have had the same concept, thinking that Job suffered because of God's judgment.

Have you ever had the thought that quite often God does something to strip you? Even though you may not be wrong, suddenly certain things happen to you, and God uses these things to strip you. It is through His stripping that God dispenses Himself to those who love Him and seek after Him. Job lost all that he had, but ultimately he gained God Himself. God stripped his all in order that He could be his all for his full transformation and conformation to the glorious image of God in His Son (Rom. 8:29). Job and his friends did not have the adequate revelation of the divine truths. As godly men, they expressed their sentiments within the limits of the revelation they had received.

And you still want to be a Christian ? (joking) The goal is too glorious. Sometimes, I don't like to share this aspect ... THERE are LOT MORE positive things in the Bible e.g. God's dispensing, His riches, His living in us, His one with us, etc ...

This post has been edited by pehkay: Apr 10 2011, 09:47 PM

it is fine if my answer doesnt convince you. I will just believe God will show and do something in you.

My prayers go out to you. May the Holy Spirit guide you. May Gods love always be with you. Revelations will come to you.

=)

Hi debbieyss ... based on your comments, i think you already have the preconceived answers / thoughts to your questions that blinded you from God's answers to you which are included in pehkay's comments to you ... You have to remove that layer of thoughts and the "self" in your .. in order to feel God's presence.

sorry if I sounded a bit harsh ... but from what I see, you just want to have things your way and not God's ways... and that is why God has been silent to all your prayers ... God has said in His word that “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the LORD (Isaiah 55:8) ... also, "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; n all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight (Proverbs 3:5-6).

If you could just seek HIM and not yourself, you will see God's miracles work in your slowly and the joy you feel from this which transcends all understanding.

Stop rambling about why God didn't work things out for you .. God does now owe us anything. Instead, we owe Him our love and trust for He has sent His only begotten Son Jesus to die for us on that cross - remember this and not forget this covenant you have embraced when you accept His salvation ... this is not our world .. it is only our temporary home ... whatever happens in this world will not last ... our hope and future is in the Lord and His heavenly kingdom and we out to live towards that ... pray that you will think less of yourself and this world and think more of Him and His kingdom .. in whatever ways, ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’ (Luke 10:27).

everyone, lets join faith and pray for Debbie.

We all wana see the body of Christ grow more and more in His likeness yah.

One of the commandments is to love others [both the lost and the saved alike] as ourselves.

The truth shall set the captives free. There is freedom in the name of Jesus.

A soldier never leaves a wounded comrade behind in battle. We shall support each other.

why do you have to pray for debbie? its his right to believe or not believe. why must you force your religion on others?

y u owayz in christian forum one ah? lol. i tot u belief in no God. lol.

you dare question my god-fearing ways? get outta here heathen! sigh i will pray for your wretched soul. hopefully the devil's work can be undone

i pray to bless her. =)

and i will pray the same for you too. =)

Reminds me of Jonah who wants to have it his way and end up in a fish

Look on the bright side, its all prayers, and not street demos

since when you believed there's a god?

Thanks for all 3 of you who have spent time in clearing my doubts.

iamwho, you are right, I have certain preconceived answers in my mind, I dare not to cling to my own answer because I am not sure about the justification God has for one's salvation. "Heaven is so real" influenced my spiritual life very badly, and terribly, I couldn't help myself to draw nearer to God. Pastor PHilip Mantofa's sermon about visiting hell made a great negative impact in my life, to date I'd still have phobia in doing things, making decision. Somehow I lost the sense of conscience to live my daily life. I am quite lost. If these 2 devoted christians are so devoted, they wouldn't be deceiving any of us in their book and sermon; if I do not trust their testimonies, I couldn't take the responsibility that fall into hell in the end.

Indeed, the Jesus whom I first knew many years ago, is so different from what these devoted christians are telling. I know I have been repeating the same again and again, but I just couldn't help myself not repeating it. Because of these 2 testi, I have messed up my life to certain level.

Do you have any unsaved loved one? I have. None of my family members are saved, I will continue to pray for their salvation. Some of them are once saved, but now lost the faith, I will still pray for them. I thought you are so GOD-FEARING that you afraid you are not compassionate enough like Jesus does?

Another thing, asking question is far better than not asking. Ask question because you are struggling to know, ask question because you want to know more. Get it?

How different was the Jesus you knew and the Jesus these christians conveyed to you?

hi. I would love to learn a bit about Christian faith
happy4ever, is that u, or your gf? ^^

This post has been edited by toda_II: Apr 13 2011, 07:40 AM

Neither

i'm just a lonely uncle with no girl or guy frens, only epic behind keyboard. so kesian.

You read my words, but you don't read my meaning.

Have I ever said I don't confess that Jesus is the only God? I'm asking for clarifications to clear my doubts, not that I don't believe He is the one true God.

I can't believe blindly, that's why I'm seeking for answers.

I ever thought of giving up my faith, to be honest.

There are just too many doubts and questions I have in my mind, for example why my colleague's mother-in-law was not saved when she died? My colleague's husband and her brother-in-law are christians also; A guest pastor who gave a sermon in one of the churches I visited not long ago, she and her husband attend the same church, her husband then in loves with a lady from this church and then he divorce this pastor and marry the lady, somemore the husband brings all his children and leave the pastor, now staying with this lady churchmate....etc...Many life examples come to me and I just can't believe that there is no revival or changes in these people's life, even though they hold faith to the God of universe.

This post has been edited by debbieyss: Apr 14 2011, 08:54 AM