Yes bro, not too closed and not too far. Gov will robohkan ampang park to build underground mrt station there

sorry 2km i thought it was the "proposed" ampang point station for mrt3. ampang park is totally not walkable. try driving in peak hour it takes nearly 25 mins from mcity to Ampang park. you might as well head to maluri lol

that 5km can take more than 30mins..once u r thr no need lrt d as u are already in town n parking thr is exp!!

Let me correct this, please do not lick. Just make money onli. I stand to correct that MS is not the worst but it got its own problems. There are lots more outside who gave shittier products.

I stuck in the decision of buy or not buy now was about to proceed but come across with all the negative n discourage posts here it's gonna be my very first property N we talk about over million project here cant afford making a wrong move

no you really really cant make the wrong decision - this type of development is not cheap by any means..so if you get it wrong with your
first purchase, its going to hurt for a long time , financially and mentally.

Not the best investment AT THIS TIME.

Also bear in mind there's 6% GST when selling out, this applies to all commercial titles (some SOHO, most SOVO and SOFO).
Those who bought after 1 april and didn't pay, income tax will come and chase them at later time.

(Not to mention bank loan's will charge another 6% on top of their interests too)
I learned this from lawyer. It's a huge pain to buy commercial titles now. Many still not realize this yet, including some lawyers.
Wait and see, income tax will come chase the buyers in a year or two.

OK, it's not income tax (Lembaga hasil) but customs who collected the tax, simply slipped out of mouth, lol! (they both look the same to me sometimes)

This applies to both new property and subsales.

So consider this, if you're selling any commercial props, where got buyers wanna pay for 6%?
Those who bought at subsales market and proceeded to SPA signing without knowing (lawyer didn't ask them to pay) this,just wait and see the interesting stuff going to happen.

So it's not a good investment for any residential prop comes with commercial title. Those old buyers are safe, though.

Read this under page 2, clause 7
http://www.customs.gov.my/en/pg/pg_ig/Prop...Mac%202014).pdf

And this
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/property-ma...aysia-property-

Some proceeded SPA without paying, doesn't mean they're waived, but simply means lawyers 'forgot' to inform, and they still owe to government!

I know many don't know this yet. That's why they kept buying commercial titles and going to hit the wall real hard soon!

This post has been edited by kyun: Oct 22 2015, 11:32 AM

GST?
residential under commercial title exempted lah.

Yes I came across that too, SOHO is classified as residential and should be exempted.

If SOHO governed under HDA sometimes it's under residential, sometimes it's commercial.
SOFO and SOVO mostly commercial. We refer back to SPA.

Easier to put it this way, if bank could give 90% loan, it's residential.
If it's 85% top, it's commercial. M-City soho could finance upto 85% afaik.

http://www.customs.gov.my/en/pg/pg_ig/Prop...Mac%202014).pdf

GST TREATMENT FOR THE INDUSTRY
7. The supply of land used for agricultural, residential (including residential
house such as link house, semi-detached house, detached house, apartment
including serviced apartment and condominium) or general purpose such as burial,
playground and religious is exempt from GST. The supply of land and building used
for commercial, administrative and industrial purpose such as shop lots, office, retail
business, small office home office (SoHo), small office virtual office (SoVo), small
office flexible office (SoFo), factories, hotel, motel, inn, hostel and warehouses is
subject to GST.

Project case is crystal clear.
If there's 6%, developer will charge accordingly. (but then commercial props, usually got a big rebate, like current m-city got 25%, after they raise 50% to give back 25%.... sigh... gimmick), so they're just playing with number.

The thing is about sub-sale case. I've asked 3 lawyers regarding subsales, only 1 confirmed about GST by referring to SPA, the other not sure.

But this is still an ongoing debate... I just tend to play safe.

Please share your other insights if residential under commercial is exempted.

From this website:
http://www.propertyguru.com.my/resources/b.../soho-sofo-sovo


So it goes back to SPA again.

Those who bought SOVO (other projects) mostly kena, SOHO still have chances, maybe government doesn't even know or they could change the rules anytime.

Just mention it's one of the risks now. Now buyer shall pay additioanl 6% for commercial prop purchase.
So some 'clever lawyers' playing with backdate spa thingy to go months back, after 1 apr, if you know what i mean... they rather pay for penalty than gst.

But now no lawyers dare to take chances, how could they 'forgot to submit after half year of signing'?

This post has been edited by kyun: Oct 22 2015, 02:53 PM

Kyun kor, the way you whack M City show how much you hated Mah Sing. Do u hv any bad experience with them? If Tan Sri Leong is following this forum, he will sure buy you lunch and bring you to his side. Joke aside, for under construction projects, many developers are like MS especially those who have sold more than 50% will be pricing their remaining unsold units high then give attractive discount to attract people to buy. MS is just a normal developer whose main objective is to make as much money as possible. At whose expense....is not their problem? Who do not behave like that? Buyers are also not stupid nowadays. I think they will do their own assessment before buying. There are just too many choices in bad times like now. Buyers should welcome feedback both positive and negative feedback to help them to decide. Maybe we should restrict ourselves to just give feedback and not condemning the developers. Let's people judge for themselves. Just my 2 sen comments.

I don't think u aware that M city under schedule H under HDA. I guess some how u miss this important point.

Initilly I sent ace77 a private PM... but then figured out it might benefit all - once and for all - We'll get back all discussions about m-city and not run off topic


http://propertyinsight.com.my/featured-art...eady-for-gst-2/

That means, Customs will assume SOHO is commercial, unless lawyer appeal as it's residential. If lawyer doesn't know how to do (don't be shocked that many don't) or if they don't prove, Customs will come to chase it later.

Some developers still charge 6% even if it's under schedule H in SPA (governed by HDA). So buyers 'can' use it for commercial purpose.
But then, when selling out, GST will be incurred.
Unless it's proved that it's just for residential purpose all the while, by appealing to authority - lawyer shall do it.

At first 2 lawyers also mentioned the same thing, once I brought this up and showed them what Chris Tan said and the info on Customs website, they changed their stand to 'we're not exactly sure either.'
Si Beh gao gao lat.

Another more experienced lawyer firmly said, SOHO is commercial as stated by Customs. Unless follow SPA and paperwork to show otherwise.

Previous few months lawyers could avoid by 'backdating' the SPA (to avoid GST in subsales selling). Now new cases can't anymore, getting suspicious.
So it's still relatively new to most people whether how to define soho. SOFO and SOVO confirmed kena.

That's basically what I meant in the forum. It's debatable.

p.s.: Icon City, d-Sara, Meridin (by mah siao)... afaik, these are projects consist of SOVO, sure kena 6% GST, no matter appeal or not. Buyer is paying.

Don't count on agents or sales reps to give a correct answer on this (espeically if some lawyers not even sure), they'll promise anything but it's never official. Ask ms's sales manager if you must (they have namecard to show their title), or lawyers.

I've promised princezz that I won't bash m-city no more, leave the personal thingy behind, LOL!

Just info sharing ok?

Now let's go back to m-city topic. No more this. Enuff.

This post has been edited by kyun: Oct 23 2015, 02:33 PM

According to author and lawyer Chris Tan, who co-wrote the book ‘The Most Wanted Series: GST’, said that property investors are struggling to figure out which types of supply are subject to GST. For instance, he told Property Insight, “If you’re landlord, you also concerned about the maintenance charges, etc., and whether they are subject to GST.”

Tan added, “When something is new, everyone will have some elements of uncertainty. So I think, most of the time it is because a lot of these rules are not clear enough, and we’re getting mixed responses from the authorities, and from the consultants, and from the experts. A lot of time everyone will be very much confused by the feedbacks they received. No one can give you a certain answer. I think we are also perplexed because the government is making a distinction between types of real estate. If only everything is the same.”

Tan recommended asking the right questions. “The first question is whether the person who is GST-registered or not,” he said. “Because if you are not registered, notwithstanding you’re dealing with commercial property that attracts GST, it doesn’t apply. Because if you’re not registered with GST, you cannot collect GST.”

Secondly, Tan said, commercial property investors have to be aware that all purchase price are inclusive of GST. “So if I am selling a RM1mil property, after 1st of April, you as a buyer still pay me RM1mil. The only different is the seller would then take the RM1mil and divide into 106, and the 6% goes to the Customs. So this effectively means is that seller actually only keeping 940k,” he explained.

The impact is that the seller now has to rethink the pricing. In addition, Tan said, “The other effect is on financing if you buy a property that’s subject to GST. If the selling price is RM1mil, are you taking RM800k loans? The answer is no, because it’s 80% out of 940k, which means cashflow-wise you have to get yourself ready for RM50K+.”

As a result, in Tan’s opinion, there will be two types of people in the property market after the 1st of April: people who are GST-registered, and those who are not.

“Now why is that having impact on the market? Simply because if you are a buyer of a commercial property that is subject to GST, would you buy from a seller who is registered, or would you buy from a seller who is not registered?” Tan asked.

“Therefore it gives rise to a new concept of buying subsales because not all the subsales sellers are GST register. If you are buyer, you look for those people who are not GST-registered.”

Tan added, “And then we have the landlord-tenant situation: Can you imagine having units and you are not registered, but your neighbour is GST-registered.” If both ask for RM1k rent, Tan said, “You earn more because you don’t have to take the 6% GST.”

According to TY Teoh International national tax director Richard Oon, who co-authored ‘The Most Wanted Series: GST’ book with Tan, remarked, “People are unsure as to how it with impact them. The GST model itself I wouldn’t say is complicated, but for the layman it’s a little difficult to understand – for example, the difference between exempt supply and zero-rated supply. Even the media sometimes gets confused over these terminologies, what more the members of the public.”

Oon illustrated a common misperception with an example of whether a developer, via a typical signed agreement, can charge GST on a residential home. “An agreement could be worded that a developer can charge GST. The question often asked of me is that, ‘The agreement says that the developer has the right to charge GST, but why, since I am buying a residential property?’”

Oon answered, “The clause is just there – it’s a protection clause for the developers. They have no right to charge GST.”

With buyers unsure about the mechanism of the GST and how it impacts the property transaction, in Oon’s experience he noticed that a lot of people adopting a wait-and-see attitude.

“They would see what other people do, and then follow.” So, Oon’s advice to the investors is to educate themselves to gain advantage. “Knowledge is King,” he said. “If you know the [GST] mechanics, you will know how it will impact you. So you know how to take action first, as compared to the others who just prefer to follow. So a continuous education is important,” he urged.

His other advice for commercial property investors: “There is still room to maneuver, room to plan and strategise, that for some period of time moving forward there would be some people selling properties by charging GST because they are registered, and there would be another group of people who will not charge GST because they are not registered,” he said. “So, there’re opportunities to buy properties at 6% cheaper.”

Oon furthered, “Also, in buying a commercial property now, so long as the property is transacted and the SPA is concluded before 31st March, essentially and indirectly you’ve bought the property at 6% cheaper as compared to another person who buys a similar property next door to you on 1st April onwards. So immediately by virtue of GST, you’ve made a 6% capital appreciation.”

As for the secondary market, there are no crystal clear guidelines for the market playes yet, and they are left assessing themselves in deciding whether they should register for GST or not.

The director of TST Consultants Sdn Bhd KP Bose Dasan said that the guidelines from the Royal Malaysian Customs Department has not taken the investment community and given them a good clear understanding. The main confusion of the investors, according to him, is whether investment is a business.

This is because one of the elements that are subjected to GST is that one must be in the course of business. According to Bose, an investor has an investments holding, hence it is not on the course of business. It does not satisfy one element of GST. “A lot of individual holds investment. So that doesn’t mean they are trading, that doesn’t mean they are in business, because we clearly understand investment income is for a long term – you buy the property, you rent it out, collect the rent, and it’s meeting all your need. It’s an investment property,” he said.

Bose added that the secondary market is full of investment community. They had invested in the property so that they can derive rental income, and then they can dispose the property and derive capital gain. Yet, the Customs Department has been quite silent on giving explanation whether investors are “doing business.”

GST is only looked from the perspective of the sellers. Bose elaborated by asking, “Is the seller in business? A lot of these property owners, they are not in business of selling properties, they just invested it. The seller doesn’t own this property for business, no. It’s only as an investment.”

Another concern of the secondary market on GST would be the transitional provision. As stated by Bose, “There’s a transitional provision in the Act. Section 183 of the GST Act says that if the actual supply doesn’t take place, but you’ve already collected the money yet the delivery doesn’t take place…and this happens after 1st April, then it’s deemed that your transaction has taken place on 1st April. This means it is subject to GST.”

A lot of people are under the impression that if they just sign the S&P agreement before the 1st of April 2015, they will escape GST. But, according to Bose, if they look at this transitional provision, they will be slightly mistaken.

“I understand from the professional, some lawyers are giving opinion that the actual time of the supply is when the transfer form is signed,” he said. This creates confusion because under the Real Property Gains Tax (RGPT), the date of transfer is when the S&P agreement was signed.

The secondary market needs a clarification from the Customs Department regarding this issue, because in the transitional provision, the physical supply deemed to be when the transfer takes place.

Malaysian Institute of Estate Agents (MIEA) president Siva Shanker agreed to Bose’ opinion. “Technically they gain possession when the service is delivered. So if you complete your sell in middle of April, even though you signed the agreement on the 1st of January, you are subject to GST. It is because of this transitional rule,” Shanker said.

Other than the issue of transitional provision, there is also the issue of property usage. When the property use is purely residential, there will be no GST involved. Yet, once you change the use to commercial, administration, or industrial, it becomes taxable supply.

Bose exemplified, “Let’s say that you are going to sell your property. To enhance your investment, you remodel it to commercial, and you sell it. Now, if I’m using my thinking from income tax point of view, that would be an enterprise. That would be a badge of trade. Now you’re increasing the value of your property by converting it for commercial use. So there’s an element of business intention here. If you sell it, it becomes business in nature.”

Shanker opined that “there are many instances that residential premises are used for commercial purposes but it remains residential per say – for example, all the bungalows in Jalan Maarof, where every single one of them is a business. They are all zoned residential. They just go to DBKL, to earn a permit for business, and that’s renewable for every year.”

Bose asserted that although the land is residential, but the design is now commercial use, hence according to GST it is taxable. He added that “under the GST law, once you changed the use of the property, it now qualifies you as having taxable supply. So the key consideration is: what is it being used as?”

The secondary market has been asking the Customs to provide the investors some clear guidelines on GST. “To this day, since there is no clarification from the Customs, the interpretation on GST is up to us,” Bose said.

The peril is that, as he put it, “Whoever read the Acts, interpreted it.” While confusion reigns, investors in the property industry still struggle to make sense of the different interpretations of GST from different sources. It may behoove the Customs to further clarify the matter, hopefully sooner, with days remaining before the enforcement of GST.

GST Mythbusters

1. My rental income for commercial property is less than RM500,000 so I don’t have to register and I don’t have to charge GST to my renter. I also don’t have to charge GST when I sell my commercial property.

Registration is mandatory for person who makes a taxable supply for business purposes (in the furtherance of business) and the taxable turnover of that supply exceeds the threshold of RM500,000 is required to be registered for GST.

Lets put it this way: It’s not just rental income. When you talk about the registration, they said that it’s your annual income. It must be RM500k and above in order to register. That’s mandatory. However, this person seems to suggest rental income. They could be other income, that actually can add up to 500k. If your annual income is more than 500k, you may need GST registration.

2. My total rental income is slightly more than RM500,000 but rental income from my commercial properties is very little. Therefore, I don’t have to register for GST.

There is a need to have two separate accounts for the rental collected. If commercial rental below RM500,000 no registration is required.

If you are not sure, seek clarification from Customs. If they cannot give you any written answer, because most of them cannot, put it in a letter. At least there is a letter for them. In the meanwhile, you should just register anyway.

3. My friend and I have our own different shoplots and we decided to share ownership in one shoplot. His annual turnover is less than RM500,000, same as mine. We both don’t have to register for GST. (Or, same scenario, but my friend’s turnover is over RM500,000 but mine is not.)

You may share ownership in one shoplot but you cannot share the turnovers to determine whether you shall register GST. Each company stand on its own account, unless both of you are companies within a group of companies and your turnover is above RM500,000. You shall opt for Group Registration.

4. I bought a shop lot for RM1 million, but my annual rental income will not exceed RM500,000 so I don’t have to register for GST.

Yes, you don’t have to. You see the first part “bought a shop lot for 1 mil”, there is no bearing on this. Because how much you buy, you are not making any income. You buy anything, does not matter. It’s only when you sell or rent it out.

5. I have to pay GST on my bank loans and interests.

False. Interests charged on loans and financing is exempted from GST.

6. For my commercial property purchase, I signed my S&P and paid the down payment before April 1, 2015. Therefore I don’t have to pay GST on the down payment and the rest of the payment.

Down payment is not subjected to GST. However, whatever balance purchase price is subjected to GST irrespective of the date of SPA. Anything that you are collecting after 1st of April this year, is subject to GST. It’s about the date of making the full payment. Let’s say 31st of March, you pay everything. Then there’s no GST.

7. I bought a SOHO for residential purpose, so I don’t have to pay GST on the purchase even if I decide to use it as for commercial purpose later on.

Generally GST is imposed on commercial property such as SOHO, however Royal Malaysian Customs will look into the usage of the said premises. Residential usage of the property will not attract GST.

Officially in black and white, the Customs said that SOHO is considered commercial. However you can appeal and tell them that it’s looking at the usage. So if you use for residential, it will not attract GST. If you buy a SOHO, let’s say from developers, the price includes GST already. So, therefore, even if you use it for commercial purpose later on, there’s no issue.

8. Last year, I signed a 12-year business contract with a supplier with review opportunity every two years on my commercial property. The next review will be done in May 2015, and I don’t have to pay GST on the contract if it remains the same.

If there is review opportunity, the supply is subjected to GST when the first review opportunity arises.

9. The Royal Customs will levy a huge fine on my erroneous quarterly GST reporting even though I am not yet familiar with the accounting method.

Pursuant to Section 88 of the GST Act, any incorrect return, on conviction, will be liable:-

a) Fine not exceeding RM50,000 or imprisonment for not exceeding 3 (three) years or both; and

b) Penalty equal to the amount of tax which has been undercharged.


http://propertyinsight.com.my/finance/get-ready-for-gst-3/

Plannin to buy MCity for my first house staying. A small unit. 2 rooms. Its about RM 1 million. But do you all think, with RM 1 million, buying a larger unit like double storey is better?

why dnt u jus buy subsale elements? most of yr questions cn be answered in d few pages before...

You are going to spend RM1 mil and not others. Different people have their own unique priorities and preference thus it will be good to decide yourself but carefully assess the feedback/comments of various people. Some comments can be personal and some can be biased and of course there are some which are very professional and objective. Some don't like to hv shopping mall but others like it. Some dislike certain developers but others don't mind. Some dislike the location but others prefer. If u ask me, I have a dozen of reasons to say why you should buy M City else I would not hv bought one but other have 100 reasons to say why u should not buy. So objective assess and make your own decision. People like me and others though we have given our views but we will not be responsible for the outcome, if it turns out to be different from what we said. All the best!

It's useless to throw out Zen-Master-like answer, "Ppl got different preferences, you shall decide and you're responsible for your own choice."
If all ppl gave non-intuitive answer like this, what's the use of this forum? Ppl need advice that's why they asked. Duh.

I don't have 100, just one reason, why not to buy. It's a stupid silly dumb investment, at this timing. You need to protect your money.
There are signs and evidences emerged from the neighboring community. Should have looked at these and made some comparisons out of it.

Also you make filtration out of all answers, because some are buyers (protective mode), some are agents (selling mode), some are bashers being prejudice (losing or hatred mode), some are non-opinionated (not sure what mode they have lol)...

Eventually there'll be dumb ppl who go for it, these ppl buy houses like buying veggies or a casual dinner without surveying and then they're protecting their purchase more heroic than the Hercules.

May not be you, because you asked in the forum.
That's the spirit of the forum. Sharing and caring.

This answer is based on own VERY BIASED bashing opinion.

Kyun, the master. Always give non biased view. A person cannot even differentiate between analysis and bashing??? Kyun, I don't think you are here to provide your views objectively. You are using the forum to just bad mouth someone you don't like. The language you use makes people vomit. If you think you are the expert, you are damned wrong man. We chose not to use the type of language like you because we are adult and objective. Pls do not bother to reply. I don't want to vomit. I believe others will feel the same. Don't PM me anymore. I thought you hv learned but you. Anyway, I am signing off here and will not comment anymore. Thank you Kyun!!