I may have misunderstood you. Likewise you misunderstood me too. For that matter, I dont think anyone understood the TS either. I beileve the TS started this thered because he was doubtful of certain things about hollow earth theory at the same time there are things he considered having merit. He wanted to hear what we could or could not accept and why so that he can formulate his own standpoint. As it is this theread started of with sarcasm accompanied by a simple statement of disbelief (typical of PhD School - heading toward Kopitiam soon). The funny part is frictional movies were quoted as if these movies had more merit than the hollow earth theory. The more crude remarks the forum throw at TS, the more cut and paste he produced.

As an arts student, I admit my science is not that good. What I can see is the stuff TS produce have their points when they challenge what is "acceptable science" (by acceptable science I means ideas that nobody in these forum dispute. Seriously, even Hawkins dont makes sense to me). Both sides have different views of gravity. I wonder how many of you realise the inconsistencies you have brought out just to disagree with this theory.

Lets me ask what I put in bold. Since everything has gravity, why are there no dust ball floating around now. How often do you clean your room? I am sure there is still dust every day. Why only during formation of suns and plantes they can clump together but not now? Since you say the center has the strongest gravity why are humans not suck in to it to form the clump? There should be one center and it should be all powerful to suck all to it thus forming one big clump not little clumps here and ther and finally orbiting around it.

hollow earth is not a theory, it is a hypothesis, which have not solid evidence to support it except for some unauthenticated personal testimonial which really dont count for much in science.

do you think kopitiam section are better to discuss about science, in the thread on hawkins new book so many just keep attacking him on his physical appearance like real enlighten people do.

During formation of sun and planet, everthing is chaotic and spreaded out, slowly due to gravitation, dust clump together and form sun, planets which due by natural force and condition, become a more steady state. But still it is not a steady state, as everything is still moving around and our galaxy in billion light year also will destory due to collision of another galaxy.

If earth has no gravitation pull, we are weightless, won't stand on the ground, and should be float around, actually we are stuck on the earth ground due to gravitational pull.
If earth gravitation pull is strong enough like sun, then we even cannot stand up and clump as a ball/point.

Yes, there is a black hole in every galaxy which planets and sun are moving around which suck everything inside.

But just like a pile of water, if you turn upside down, water fall down.
But if you spin the pile fast enough, then the water will stick to the pile and won't fall down even on upside down condition, aka centrifugal force counter act the gravitational pull.

Just like when we standing up, we are actually using muscle strength to counter the earth gravitational pull.

The concept allied.

Whatever hypothesis, you need at least tiny science, math or fact, or some theory to support it before it can hold any ground.
You cannot simply throw out a hypothesis and want people to believe.

You need to proper explain such a theory. Just like when steady state theory come out, many scientists and physician actually accept it. But since after scientish found out the universe is continue expanding and galaxy actually become far and far away by time, steady state theory cannot hold ground anymore.
There are some maths and theory based on observation and data that current support various theory we have today.
While some may just purely theory, just like big bang theory, but those have strong theory to support it (like since distance become far and far away, big bang theory has its supporting point) until someone can debunk those theory, by some facts, or some other theory which hold ground, then it is still remain believe and accepted.

Same with hollow earth, until one can prove with math of gravitational pull, observation data, some theory that hold ground, only then it is seems plausible.
If not simply throw out such theory without anything else, it will be just be laughed off only.

The Earth is indeed Hollow. It is powered by a gigantic Core i7 chip inside.

Intel Inside™.

Robert,
Dont you think one day we will end up like kopitiam if we continue to hurl insults just because someone come up with a fairy tale that strongly offends your belief?

Cherroy,
My point is just because something that is in main streem science does not mean it does not have its inconsistencies. Why is earth gravity not pulling more dust now to make earth dustless and bigger? How come it had the ability to do such thing when it was only a spec of dust (much weaker than now a giantic globe that house you and I) but not now? So there is this statement "become a steady state" whcih sounded good and every one accpect and it become main stream science. What happen to the earlier premise that every thing has gravity. It is not workable now. It uses gravity to maintain the sytem. It sounds like a fairy tale to me. It seems okay at that time (due to our existing knowledge) so we accept it. Those days you say the earth is round and you get mocked. Now you are a cookoo if you say the eath is hollow. An acceptance due to no opposition at that time will become main stream science. To put it in another way, "it must be true because it is not faillable". That is science? Or to put in TS words, wait till Hawkins tell you otherwise then you will accept. I wonder how many of those who previously said "I will believe if I see it for myself" will just accept Hawkins without even seeing.

btw what is 'TS'?
ScrewBallX?
yep it is correct to ask questions or problems here that you doubt about.
however there is no point to keep holding onto something like a freak and not ready to put it down.
we are here to educate and correct the wrong statements and faults.
that is why all of us have been trying so hard to keep on explaining.
of course some replies here might seemed harsh because everyone is trying to defend their ideas and reject others'.
this is just discrepancies between our ideas and what we believe as truthful.
disagreement on different ideology may even lead to arguments or clashes.
but it can still be avoided if one keeps and open mind and ready to accept their fault, furthermore learning new and better things.

I'm science educated student but then I realize not everyone is the same as I,
so I don't expect everyone must be good in science and thus no one will believe in pseudoscience such as the hollow core earth.
when this happens, people believing in wrong science and got the wrong idea, deviated from the true logic and science,
this is when we stand out and correct them.

what we can see here is ScrewBallX don't seemed ready to accept all these nor have an open mind which is ready to accept different, correct ideology.
that's why so many were flaming at him.

answering you question.
now we are all attracted to earth's gravity,
but it doesn't mean that gravity doesn't exist between you and me, the dust particles, or the daily objects around you.
it is just that their gravitational pull now is too small until it is negligible as compared to earth.
at the early stage of the formation of planet, everything are just almost the same size,
that is why they have almost equal gravitational force to the clumping of dusts to happen.

and now we are not being sucked into the centre of sun,
simply because we are in an ellipse(elongated circle) motion around the sun.
this idea may be abstract and hard to understand.
in circular motion, a centripetal force is resulted/needed to hold the orbiting object in the circular path,
or else it will go on in a straight line motion.
sun's gravity is provide the centripetal force to hold the planets in their orbits, and it is what makes planets orbiting around it, and not going in straight motion and leave the solar system.

No offence, i think this whole section is no different from Kopitiam as no one is willing to write anything constructive. The topics here arent even encouraging you to have constructive posts.

IMO, this sections needs slightly stricter rule. As we could see from ScrewballX, he have been copying and pasting various information from any source, sometimes with incomplete information. We need a rule that anything you post, you need a source so that other people could see whether the source is a credible source or just another of those pseudo science sites that blindly supporting some hypothesis.

Also, the amount of pseudo science needs to be reduced, as they have nothing much to discuss about. Things like sorcery, hollow eath "theory" shouldnt be here, or at least have decent articles or sources to discuss about.

no no no i don't see these as insult,
i see it more as a form of debate in this forum.
the same as critique.
most malaysians just don't like the idea of critique, and they find it hard to accept other's critique.
the same here. we see critique as something bad and insulting.
however, the truth is, critique is what let us see our fault and flaw, and thus guide us towards improvement.

in fact earth is still constantly pulling more dust every moment.
some are small, and some are big, those big ones are asteroid, ranging from few cm to few metres.
yep the olden time, when you say earth is round, you will get caught by the church and labeled as Satan or devil.
that is why Galileo Galilei got killed by the church.
because he believed in science and started the revolution of modern science to seek for the truth.
that is also why we have science as we see today, free from the influence of other party (such as church or other religion body)

here is the irony,
in the olden days, people who claimed that earth is spherical will get trouble from the church, because what church says is considered 'true'.
today, the table has turned.
people claiming that earth is hollow got fired by so many. I would describe TS as the church and we as galileo galilei,
today people no longer trust 'church' , but scientist (galileo galilei).

a theory is established as the model of the physical because it best describe the nature.
however from our experience, true, for many theories have been busted and got replace by better ones.
but then again, such trend will not keep going on perpetually.
as we improve, we always get closer to the truth.

let's look at the case of earth,
first earth is flat,
then it is said to be round and spherical.
and then we sent satellite and observe,
the earth bulges a little at the equator, due to it's spin.
and then human wanted to know the internal structure of earth,
that is why there were so many different theories about the earth's internal structure,
hollow core earth is one of them.
and thru experiment, measurements and inductive speculation,
we concluded that earth is not hollow. and the hollow core earth postulate has been busted.
and it can no longer be revived, just like the case of 'flat earth'.
understood?

now the established model can be modified,
but just on the composition and structure of the inner earth, not the hollow one.
for example at fist we may see the core as solid,
and then improvement made,
the core is molten as w see today.
but the model still hold true,
and hollow core earth is still busted.

---

Added on September 17, 2010, 3:12 pmyup now the thread and its content had spoiled the real meaning of 'PhD School'.
if he is here to seek for truth and ready to learn,
it's okay and correct to do so at PhD School.
but..

This post has been edited by KeNGZ: Sep 17 2010, 03:12 PM

since this is suppose to be a serious section of the forum, we would expect everyone here to post stuff that are base of facts not fairy tales. for me it is ok for people to open thread on pseudo science, we can present evidence to debunk it, it is another to try and pass fairy tales as fact and expect people to believe it.

a major problem is see is some people never try to understand the scientific method but keep on attacking it, like the meaning of a scientific theory, for countless time have been mention scientific theory does not mean the samething as theory in layman term, but still people will attack scientific theory as "just a theory" and demand their fairy tale to be treated in the same level as the theory.

Yes, you are correct.

If earth is not spinning, and not receiving energy from the sun which resulted wind and wave in the earth, then yes, every dust wil fall down to earth. Dust flying around is because of those energy, and activities in the earth, including volcanic etc.

Yes a theory explains well the universe or planets or whatever, what is happening out there, while there is not falliable and no one can debunk it then it is a good theory and may accept well across.
Why big bang accepted welll across?
Because it explains well what was/is happening, and being strengthen by observation stars and galaxy is become further and further away.

So if one wants to say earth is hollow, then must explain why earth is hollow, why you have such a opinion. You cannot simply say it due to fantasy or fiction of your own taught.
If you can explains it and others cannot counter the theory with existing science and physics, then you will become another famous scientist or physician.

Just like people said earth is round, you are cookoo if you cannot explain why it is round.

This post has been edited by cherroy: Sep 17 2010, 04:46 PM

Apart from the scientific and theory, the story that begin with someone been there and communicated in ENGLISH and the 3 blonds came to greet him is already a joke, which led me to imagine the life in such environment and breath the same air, much like alien who appear the same as human and why bother to communicate in the first place and not now?

eh guys note the use of term
'physician'
physician means medical practicer/ doctor.
the one study Physics and work in this field,
we call them Physicist. =)

Pasting and copy latest info for what we dont know why the north pole is kept out of peoples view. Some explorer may have come across it, there are also people who investigate this "hole" but their progress has been hinder by goverment. Google earth have a blank spot on the top or photoshop as well as any sat images. At the North Pole, the sun is permanently above the horizon during the summer months, so why there is no full sat images during this time?
All information we gather are never 100%. Nothing is 100%.
If you are in to science without a shred of belief i tell you this, If i ask you to jump, spit and shout "Oi, come out yer dead people" at the cemetary at 12 midnight, will you do it? Surely you would be afraid of getting "someone" angry. From that point your science dont apply.
Hawking believed lifeform from different planets by calculation and announce it to the world, but the Hollow Earth theory is where alien dwells according to people who said to have been there. Hawking already open a new chapter of theory when he announce alien is "real" through calculation.
So which part does this Theads fit with kopitiam? If you think this theads should be at kopitiam then any theads relating to Stephan Hawking theory should go there as well.
We dont know on that robotic speaking chair of his, he also calculating the Hollow earth theory, thus another theory of alien pops up.

what do you mean north pole is keep out of view, which government are hindering the investigation of the hole? and north pole dont sit on a land mass like south pole, it is water under the ice any submarine that pass through there will drop into the hole if there is one, and they even have measure the depth of the sea there, the soviet drifting ice station have been around the area for many decades.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_and_Ru...ng_ice_stations

in 2007 a team for russia decent to the sea bed of the north pole in a publicity stunt to drop a russian flag there

Russian and the US has been neck and neck going for the Moon. But in the end, we dont know who win. Russian said they win, US said they win but there is a conspiracy that US never made to the Moon. They make stage and film it from there.
As you read it, Russian want to make a publicity stunt.. so it could be somewhere but not anywhere near the "hole".

Coordinate for hole has been said at 87.7N lat, 142.2E long (2.3 Degree from pole). But mind you there are occurance at the north pole. From sea level, mirage can be seen and also it has been said that the magnetic pole can tamper with the compass and electronic stuff.

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Added on September 17, 2010, 10:37 pmAdding ..



This post has been edited by ScrewBallX: Sep 17 2010, 10:37 PM

since when did sovietsaid they win the race to the moon???? they have a legitimate claim that they win the space race with their many first in space flight history, but definately not the moon. if the US have stage the landing on the moon why dont the soviet expose them, it is a conspiracy of unimaginable magnitute involving hundred of thousand of people to fake a moon landing and to fool all the thousand of reporter and spy and are watching nasa's every move. it would be easier to fly to the moon than to fake one.

you know why russian want to plant the flag there? it is due to dispute is the claim on the resources in the artic between russia, US, canada, norway, denmark and greenland, all these country are mapping the artic to try to establish their claim to the area. none have find a massive hole which will be easy to find, and why would russia put the flag in the wrong place, it would be national embarassment if they do.

the north pole are ice and water, submarine have sail through there, nuclear ice breaker and gone there, you can got for a trip to the north pole on board NS Yamal to see for yourself there is not a hole in the group.

http://www.calflora.net/northpole/index.html

This post has been edited by robertngo: Sep 17 2010, 11:04 PM

Mirages are not rare. All you need to get one is layers of air with different temperature for it to happen. With the North Magnetic Pole in the area, no magnetic compass will work correctly. These are naturally occurring phenomenas that has nothing to do with your so called hole.

What's is the purpose of showing off such a large map? It doesn't show anything relating to you so called hole at all.

There is no continent on the north pole. It is covered by the Artic Ocean. If there's a hole there, all the water will flow in. We will see a great gigantic whirlpool. And the ocean will drain pretty quickly.

I can think of two explanation why Google Earth does not show anything at the North Pole (I don't have Google Earth right now, so I'll just take your word that it doesn't). (1) Perhaps the satellites (from which Google Earth gets it's imagery) are in an equatorial orbit, and the poles are not easily visible. (2) There's nothing to show. Just an endless expanse of flat ice covered ocean. All flat white. Unlike the South Pole, which is on land, and has mountains and valleys, the North Pole would be very flat.

Testing a hypothesis by real experimentation and observation. That *IS* science. You will find out doing so will actually raise the dead. Getting someone angry WOULD be a positive confirmation of your hypothesis. At 12 midnight, there's nobody there except dead people.

Hawking is not the first to make such calculations. Re Fermi's Paradox (about why aliens are not here yet, a bit off topic for the present discussion). Let's just assume that he meant the name callings belongs in kopitiam. Leave it at that and move on.

The main trouble with the hollow earth hypothesis is that by now, the interior of the earth has already being mapped using seismic waves. There is no great big void. Just like we can use ultrasound to see an unborn child without cutting open her mother's womb, we do not actually need to dig a 5000km hole to prove that the earth is not hollow. It would be interesting if someone comes up with a hypothesis that will account for the observed seismic data, AND have a great big void at the center of the planet. I doubt it's possible.

Another problem with this hypothesis is the earth's magnetic field. The current model of the earth (solid iron core, surrounded by liquid iron, surround by molten rock, and lastly the solid crust) accounts for this. The hollow earth model does not.

This is getting more interesting....

Stars formed from gas cloud. These gas cloud consist of hydrogen and helium. As the universe expand, these cloud begin to condense and form stars. In short, any fine particles basically would coagulate into shining star, i.e. sun. While planet were form in similar way, except the source came from larger particles.

For a cluster of rock to form around a sun, forming a sphere is unlikely. Added with unique characteristic up to 2 holes is near impossible. (Probability is there).

If your read about habitable planet, it will tell you probability of earth-like planet (of intelligent life) is very very low, and I quote, 0.01% in 4 billion years.

Now consider the probability of the following:
1. For a cluster of rock to form evenly around a very small sun;
2. Without being consumed and self-collapse;
3. With 2 holes to be on exact opposite end and along the axis of rotation;
4. Inherit all the unique revolution of life on outer earth (from microorganism, to all kind of living beings, plants and animals, complex food chain)
5. And habitable on outer and inner planet

It is not impossible though. If it is true, inner earth being would have also evolve with similar intelligence as us.