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 Terran Strategy discussion V 1.0, The Last Mankind on Galaxy

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evofantasy
post Dec 9 2011, 12:35 PM

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QUOTE(max_cavalera @ Dec 9 2011, 12:04 AM)
Latest TvP stats in November shows that P win rate has increase to 55% and terran only 45%. any of u guys experience facing a toss become much tougher recently or u guys juz refuse to qq and adapt to survive wif new built?
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this is partly due to the new way toss been playing - turtlish upgrade instead of the 2/3 base timing...
if u see the latest puma vs hero match, i would say puma has started reacting very very well to it...

ps: the immortal buff jz open some sick timing for protoss to do (MC vs Puma match where he got to codeS) which i think puma handle very well when hero tried it (watch sotg for discussion on what puma did)
FLampard
post Dec 9 2011, 07:04 PM

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QUOTE(jeffvip @ Dec 9 2011, 01:13 AM)
not really actually. I don't notice Terran is weaker or Protoss is stronger in this period but EMP nerf certainly play a big part here. Even cloak ghost cant EMP all the HT now. Btw, I will try to end TvP asap. To me it is a very boring MU. just hope Blizzard dont nerf Terran anymore. (I want to forget BFH nerf but I cant  cry.gif )
TvZ now I try to get 3rd CC after the 4th hellion. But bcos of early 3rd cc, blue flame hellion running though mineral line seems impossible to achieve d. But the result is stunning, I can push out 3 to 4 minutes earlier.


Added on December 9, 2011, 1:15 am

even score. no problem here. every1 will face a down time against one particular race from time to time
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HT? pro HT feedback ghost and instantly kill them, so EMP nerf is not really an issue.

despite the nerf im still playing terran lol, lose ma lose lor, not planning to switch to other more powerful race.

This post has been edited by FLampard: Dec 9 2011, 07:05 PM
SUSdakwahgandist
post Dec 9 2011, 09:17 PM

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these days i just 15 FE and mass marines every single game. Couldn't care less if I win or lose.

currenly on plat.
max_cavalera
post Dec 11 2011, 03:00 AM

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QUOTE(quest_5692 @ Dec 8 2011, 04:40 PM)
baneling bust is actually sick good to perform but hard to hold its so retarded. later tonight i go back home i upload a brain fart game.

antiga shipyard, i 1 rax FE, he 15 hatch no stop gas for bane. he drone to 23 drone, then spam lings and banes only. can have like 40 lings on the map rally to my base ALL THE TIMEEEEE force me lift off, all kind of shit, can make 20 banes at a time, can drone up to 30 after 1st wave then keep on send wave after wave.... i  barely survived with a BO win...after 1st rax, i take 2 gas, then 2 factory research blue flame. only i manage to fend off....its retardedly stupid how zergs can drone up to a certain amount of drone den just spam army.

i barely survived, and he can just get roach warren and take a 3rd. den he got like 15 roach suddenly. then he drone up to 50 for 3 base. den mass units again -.- when im recovering into 3 base. then he just plant down spire, later suddenly tech change to 16 muta -.-

i won anyway. from the point he couldnt bane bust kill me, i adi win cuz supply advantage and all...but then its still damn retarded how zergs with good larvae management can take advantage  of it. some zergs make like 10 roach den get 3 base and drone up behind it wif fake pressure in front. if required just instantly make some lings to compliment the 10 roach to defend any rush. or some like to sudden tech switch....or currently famous in ladder for mass upgraded ling infestor rush into BL..

TVZ bullshit. got like 3 win 7 lose ytd for tvz -.-
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currently i have given up to even get natural expansion against zerg.i just 1 base all in with MMM and timing before 9.30 mins mark must load up n drop to his main edi. got very good win rate against Z wif this....marine few marauder n medivac is really sick wif 4 medivac can keep on stimming non stop n micro like hell. only weakness is bane but by 9 mins mark u wont face speed upgrade bane if ur hand fast enuf u can lift off wif medivac and abuse their base ledges. just drop only 2,3 marine at their main n wait bane kill it off until hes no more bane pickup again n drop to his main.... constant pressure spells the death for zerg opponent... huhu


Added on December 11, 2011, 3:02 am
QUOTE(quest_5692 @ Dec 7 2011, 08:03 PM)
since that lost, i know how to deal with cloak shee build adi, my starport just get viking


Added on December 7, 2011, 7:05 pmmy problem with mech is now zergs are good with BL...on some map, its super hard to punish early BL. early BL is not 1 base BL -.- i mena like 3 base 60 drones hive tech upgraded lings. like stephano not sure timing but like 15-20, im building my 3rd base~anyway i hate zergsssssssss nowaday, they really get btr adi, know how to have army all the while. play like leenock. unlike idra and ret old style which always have empty base will kena timing easily.
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good good. i was thinking the same thing. if u fast get at least 2 viking edi u only need like 2 turret 1 at mineral line another 1 around ur building area just to get detection... that already nullify cloak banshee threat.

This post has been edited by max_cavalera: Dec 11 2011, 03:02 AM
quest_5692
post Dec 11 2011, 08:13 AM

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QUOTE(max_cavalera @ Dec 11 2011, 03:00 AM)
currently i have given up to even get natural expansion against zerg.i just 1 base all in with MMM and timing before 9.30 mins mark must load up n drop to his main edi. got very good win rate against Z wif this....marine few marauder n medivac is really sick wif 4 medivac can keep on stimming non stop n micro like hell. only weakness is bane but by 9 mins mark u wont face speed upgrade bane if ur hand fast enuf u can lift off wif medivac and abuse their base ledges. just drop only 2,3 marine at their main n wait bane kill it off until hes no more bane pickup again n drop to his main....  constant pressure spells the death for zerg opponent... huhu


Added on December 11, 2011, 3:02 am
good good. i was thinking the same thing. if u fast get at least 2 viking edi u only need like 2 turret 1 at mineral line another 1 around ur building area just to get detection... that already nullify cloak banshee threat.
*
theres alot of 1 base all in to play around in TvZ. you can try blue flame hellion drop, cloak banshee, raeper, siege tank contain~ if you want to see how pros do 1 base all in against zerg, watch ST rainbow and ogsforgg's stream. they reactor hellion into cloak banshee every game.
max_cavalera
post Dec 11 2011, 04:24 PM

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QUOTE(quest_5692 @ Dec 11 2011, 09:13 AM)
theres alot of 1 base all in to play around in TvZ. you can try blue flame hellion drop, cloak banshee, raeper, siege tank contain~ if you want to see how pros do 1 base all in against zerg, watch ST rainbow and ogsforgg's stream. they reactor hellion into cloak banshee every game.
*
i used to do that every game against zerg too....i think this is the typical strat metagame against zerg now so much so that they already learn to defend an counter this built. i stop this built since many zerg can already predict this. and since the cost to upgrade Ovie to overseer is pretty cheap now, the zerg just get each overseer to hover over their hatchery and extra queens while blocking the ramp with evo chamber n few spine crawler then this built is easily nullify...
FLampard
post Dec 12 2011, 03:23 PM

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QUOTE(quest_5692 @ Dec 11 2011, 08:13 AM)
theres alot of 1 base all in to play around in TvZ. you can try blue flame hellion drop, cloak banshee, raeper, siege tank contain~ if you want to see how pros do 1 base all in against zerg, watch ST rainbow and ogsforgg's stream. they reactor hellion into cloak banshee every game.
*
no plans for muta?

This post has been edited by FLampard: Dec 12 2011, 03:23 PM
quest_5692
post Dec 12 2011, 04:39 PM

yo chick, im not buaya
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thor
chahupping
post Dec 12 2011, 10:46 PM

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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Dec 4 2011, 04:44 PM)
1. starting wit the bunker is good, but then ur bunker timing need to be well timed and he need to pull drones for it to work (ie before he get his ling)... due to that, the lost of mining time pays for the bunker etc...

2. 16-20 min push is too slow especially if u are on 2 base... i usually get my 3rd base up around 12-15min... that is also while harassing/ treatening an attack... if u do ntg, the zerg will jz do ntg bt make 72 drones and from there he can make any army/ bases he want to roll u over... the macro advantage is already too big... the early pressure etc would make him stop being so greedy in getting a quick 3rd/ 4th/ 5th without dying to any good harass/ attack... he cant spine all of his bases/ choke up all of his bases that fast... likewise, some maps dun really let u get an easy 3rd base...

3. use tanks vs banes... try downloading some micro trianer maps to practice shutter step, focus fire and splitting using marines... they help a lot and is really really fun

4. 3-3 marines are really awesome when drop, u can see a few terran pros who love doing that and really deal a lot of damage as the zerg need to split his army right

5. hellions are really good for a few reason: -
- the things u force ur opponents to make like queen, spines, walls and roaches
- map control thus they cant simply expand
- deny creep tumor... it is ok if u cant deal any damage wit the hellions, the hellions will deny creep from spreading when u camp outside of their natural...
- supplementing ur army as they are good in preventing ling surrounds (see MKP's game vs zenio on dual sight... he did some brilliant mech play)
- allow easy transition to mid-game siege tanks due to the fact
- good mineral dump as they dun require gas
- dropping BFH is really good (see the slayers build)
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example of micro trainer map??
evofantasy
post Dec 12 2011, 10:51 PM

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QUOTE(chahupping @ Dec 12 2011, 10:46 PM)
example of micro trainer map??
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jz search for micro on custom in bnet
chahupping
post Dec 12 2011, 10:55 PM

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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Dec 12 2011, 11:51 PM)
jz search for micro on custom in bnet
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thx, can i have link for 11/11 BO?
evofantasy
post Dec 12 2011, 11:19 PM

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QUOTE(chahupping @ Dec 12 2011, 10:55 PM)
thx, can i have link for 11/11 BO?
*
no BO cause it is a very simple build...

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Proxy_11-11_Rax_Rush
chahupping
post Dec 12 2011, 11:20 PM

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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Dec 13 2011, 12:19 AM)
no BO cause it is a very simple build...

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Proxy_11-11_Rax_Rush
*
thx. rclxms.gif
FLampard
post Dec 13 2011, 01:53 AM

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at my bracket, 99.9% of the zerg would use the same tactic...fast expand, spore crawler to def expansion, zerglings into mass muta....i see almost every zerg player doing this, any comments on this?



max_cavalera
post Dec 13 2011, 04:22 AM

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QUOTE(FLampard @ Dec 13 2011, 02:53 AM)
at my bracket, 99.9% of the zerg would use the same tactic...fast expand, spore crawler to def expansion, zerglings into mass muta....i see almost every zerg player doing this, any comments on this?
*
u want a good built against this? if u wana play standard i open with 1 depot n 2 rax n push to their natural with 3 marines. this all happen by 4.30-5 mins mark....just be realistic its not gonna win u d game but its gonna force zerg opponent to spent limited amount of larvae into extra lings, it may seem insignificant but by doing only this u actually delay and slow their drone production, 3rd hatch or even extra queens by a few mins........after that i tech to MMM and drop to their main before 10 mins mark...but its up to you wht to transition frm thr...

u shuld feel better if they expand early...if they 1 base for quite sometime expect some shenanigans happenings such as baneling bust at ur doorsteps by 5.30 mins mark? or even 7 roach rush...2 rax opener shuld be able to defend early bane bust or roach rush but don't forget to put down a bunker...

This post has been edited by max_cavalera: Dec 13 2011, 04:31 AM
SiewKaiz
post Dec 13 2011, 08:18 AM

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QUOTE(chahupping @ Dec 12 2011, 10:55 PM)
thx, can i have link for 11/11 BO?
*
user posted image

11/11 at ladder~ smile.gif

no need bo actually

9/10 supply
11rax
11rax
14/15 oc
15supply
16/17 bunker
17/18 bunker
18/19 depot/bunker
quest_5692
post Dec 13 2011, 08:24 AM

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QUOTE(SiewKaiz @ Dec 13 2011, 08:18 AM)
user posted image

11/11 at ladder~ smile.gif

no need bo actually

9/10 supply
11rax
11rax
14/15 oc
15supply
16/17 bunker
17/18 bunker
18/19 depot/bunker
*
my version extreme abit, send 2 scv to opponents gold at 9 supply, proxy 11/11, lagi gao~ only works in shattered, shakuras, metalopolis.


Added on December 13, 2011, 8:25 am
QUOTE(FLampard @ Dec 13 2011, 01:53 AM)
at my bracket, 99.9% of the zerg would use the same tactic...fast expand, spore crawler to def expansion, zerglings into mass muta....i see almost every zerg player doing this, any comments on this?
*
because this is the standard ZvT, just as standard as why terrans get marine every game. just like why you also do the same build most of the time.

This post has been edited by quest_5692: Dec 13 2011, 08:25 AM
SiewKaiz
post Dec 13 2011, 08:25 AM

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QUOTE(quest_5692 @ Dec 13 2011, 08:24 AM)
my  version extreme abit, send 2 scv to opponents gold at 9 supply, proxy 11/11, lagi gao~ only works in shattered, shakuras, metalopolis.
*
very dangerous if he 6pool u~
quest_5692
post Dec 13 2011, 09:06 AM

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QUOTE(SiewKaiz @ Dec 13 2011, 08:25 AM)
very dangerous if he 6pool u~
*
lol who 6 pool against terran. anyway i lost to a blind roach rush when i was smurfing in NA WTF. forgotten there are still ppl who go blind roaches in lower league (facepalm)

he literally pool gas queen roach warren with 0 scouting 0 lings. at 1st i tot he hack, know i proxy 2 rax.

anyway this strat wif good micro can even up with a pool 1st opening and wins a hatch 1st opening.
SiewKaiz
post Dec 13 2011, 09:13 AM

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QUOTE(quest_5692 @ Dec 13 2011, 09:06 AM)
lol who 6 pool against terran. anyway i lost to a blind roach rush when i was smurfing in NA WTF. forgotten there are still ppl who go blind roaches in lower league (facepalm)

he literally pool gas queen roach warren with 0 scouting 0 lings. at 1st i tot he hack, know i proxy 2 rax.

anyway this strat wif good micro can even up with a pool 1st opening and wins a hatch 1st opening.
*
i got face 1 master zerg~ he 6pool all game all race~ n he won some terran


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