im not a hyundai salesman la..i started this thread bcos i personally like that car..


This post has been edited by megat89: Jun 30 2010, 02:42 PM

I know what i know. Nothing more and nothing less.

U still dont get what im trying to say. Im NOT saying the survey is NOT accurate. Go check out the survey results. Its measured over 5-6 different categories. The OVERALL ranking is based on the results of INDIVIDUAL categories.

This survey is not based on INDEPENDENT ASSESSMENT of the problems / issues. It is based on OWNER REPORTED PROBLEMS not taking into account PRODUCTION NUMBERS.

So if u have manufacturers which sold 1000 units and 100 units had problems your percentage of problems would be 10%.

But if u had another manufacturer who produced 1500 units and 100 units had problems, your percentage of problems would be 6.7%.

So both have different percentages with the same number of units with problems. Which is why u cannot compare the survey results for a Porsche with a Toyota for instance since the production numbers have a vast difference.

I dont mean the survey results are inaccurate. It just needs to be viewed from a different perspective. If u want a real comparison then group the vehicles according to the production numbers which i suggested earlier.

i agreed with you, 1.6 avante at 100k will surely make ppl think twice, 2.0 at 100k price level will still be a catch.

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Added on June 30, 2010, 3:17 pm
maybe we are talking about different thing??
i am refering to the chart above...
the rating is by problem/100 vehicles

mean toyota have 128 problem out of 100 vehicles

hyundai have 148 problems out of 100 vehicles

Jaguar have 175 problems out of 100 vehicles

so production numbers will not impact the result.

This post has been edited by choonwai11: Jun 30 2010, 03:17 PM

not sure also. went home yesterday, she said got 1 forumer with name cybermaster got alot of things to say about korean cars. so i figure it must be u

old altis 1.8G here rates 0.15 cents/km (very mixed driving). if the 0.16 cents you gave is the 1.6 Forte in general, probably the FC isn't as excellent as some reviewers make it to be. but of coz, reviews are never to be taken literally.

that said, i do appreciate the SA for being honest when i told them this. but forte is a heavier car than altis, so the 2.0 should return better FC if driven in my condition.

p/s: who's gonna loan me his 2.0 forte so i can test it for a week?

let me get some facts right:
It was launch in Nov 2009 so it is less than a year from it's launch date

Naza only targets to deliver to 500 units/ month , which is their current max capability and each month they exceed their sales targe around 5-15%
http://www.btimes.com.my/Current_News/BTIM.../forte/Article/

FORTE at current capacity will not exceed Vios sales number because Toyota's manufacturing capacity is so much larger compare to Naza's assembly plant. If FORTE can exceed Vios Toyota can really start retrenching people staring from the local parts manufacturer.

Put it another way Naza's after sales is improving , Hyundai I am not so certain as Sime currently abit unstable

With the Sonata at 140k probably I will land myself an accord instead -> just a personnel preference

Yes i already corrected my mistake on the launch date for the Forte much earlier.

Car manufacturers will always say that the max production is X amount. This is merely to ward off unwelcomed comments that the car isnt selling well. But just ask yourself this. If there were 2000 ppl queing up to buy the Forte every month, wouldnt it be perfectly natural to ramp up production to cater for the increased demand like what Perodua is currently doing for the Alza? Why after 7 months, there is no ramping up of production of the Forte? Simply because the demand does not warrant an increase. Please dont blindly believe statements released by Gov cronies.

Its the same excuse that Honda gave for the City. Since its launch and despite all its advanced features, its numbers have never come close to the Vios. So they released a statement saying that they were running at max capacity bla bla bla. But now with the same sales numbers , some sales outlets actually have ready stock of the City and no sign of the so called backlog which Honda claims.

American survey is not applicable here.

This the most recent survey. So 2010 survey is not out yet.



There are 5 different JD Power Survey, which serves different purpose. So you need to look at different perspectives

* Initial Quality
* Vehicle Appeal
* Dependability
* Sales Satisfaction
* Service Satisfaction

JD Power Website




This post has been edited by alpha0201: Jun 30 2010, 04:12 PM

ya, i know there are different rating, but i and cybermaster are discussing car realiability, so we only look at dependability.

Actually the statistic that you need to look at is Sales Satisfaction & Service Satisfaction to determine the quality of the dealer & service centres, see how they handle the situation, lets say warranty claims or spare part availability & cost.

No doubt that Hyundai & Kia made better cars recently & massive satisfaction in other countries but same couldn't said here as Sime Darby & Naza isn't all that reliable when comes to aftersales service.

I think this is what cybermaster98 trying to convey.

Hope this clears the misunderstanding here.

no, u r the one misunderstood, we are not talking about service satisfaction, infact i acknowledge that sale and service of naza are indeed causing kias sell not good in malaysia.

we r discussing on car realiability as cybermaster mention he have experiance of kias and hyundais problem with his family. cybermaster mention that toyotas car have proven higher quality according to the dependability rating by JD power, toyota are rank top 10 while korean car are not in top 10, i acknowledge that, yes korean car indeed need to buck up.
mean while we also saw some famous brand rank below the korean car, so by ranking, the famous brand like audi, volvo is lower quality then the korean cars? this is wat i wanted to show using the JD power US, yes, US chart....just to illustrate that if follow the chart, cybermaster will not buy any car that lower rank then koreans because their realiability is lower then the koreans....????

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Added on June 30, 2010, 6:19 pmok, i think we better not discuss any more about this in this thread, it is for sonata.

sorry for creating many annoying posts......



This post has been edited by choonwai11: Jun 30 2010, 06:19 PM

i think tis tread gonna become off topic...i tot is talkin about sonata???how come is bashing other brand car wan?????nid mod do somethin about it

No. It's not excellent...but it's decent for such a big & heavy car.

We'll c how it goes after my 1k service. But RM0.16/km is no shame.

Both of you are right. Quality was an issue with older versions of the Korean makes. Im not sure about the new models. But the biggest issue is the AFTER SALES SERVICE quality. This is the main cause as to why Korean makes do not sell well here.

who wants to buy a car with headache afterwards?high maintenance cost,need to change this that, supply chain problem for the sake of owning a Korean?

that's not worth every penny...what people want is peace of mind..and that is why honda and toyota excel in that

can we conclude that:

- This is a Hyundai Sonata thread > according to you, you are not sure if this Sonata (or any other korean makes of the similar generation) is good or not, but you are not willing to find out because you condemn the aftersales service here. (keep in mind that all this while, you are the only keep repeating the quality issue of previous gen koreans. noone ever disputed that since we all know it too. but somehow you manage to escape everyone's attention on how yourself never agree or bother to find out if the quality has improved)

- 2ndly, for the same reason of condemnation above, you believe that this Sonata should be priced at what Naza did with Forte, pricing it at Altis / Civic range while competing with Camry / Accord (since Forte was priced at City / Vios, but was good enough to park next to Altis / Civic)

- 3rdly, you mentioned that korean makes do not sell well here, even tho everyone else is seeing the contrary, Forte number is clearly increasing on the road.

So, what is yr point really? you simply don't want to give the new gen of korean makes a chance. end of your opinion.

why the trouble of finding tonnes of info from arnd the net to justify your 'opinion'? (note: it is still remaining as, your opinion...not a fact yet. these are new cars man)

anyhow, did kimchi broke your heart so bad? lol.

you are like the japanese soldier hired to shoot down any potential korean car convert, hahaha. Go sushi!

This post has been edited by eddie_al: Jul 1 2010, 10:25 AM

very nice one

This post has been edited by shamsul_LP: Jul 1 2010, 10:44 AM

I have to agree what eddie said
Cybermaster has been condemned Koreans quality all the while in the Forte and Sonata forum by kept on bringing the older generation Koreans for comparison. I think he has finally agreed Koreans good quality now.
Just for the curiousity, he has never mentioned his wife owned a Korean car in all previous Forte forums, but why suddenly he started to mention his experience about his wife Korean car? From this I believe this guy is probably made up all those personal experience story on Korean car.

Go and read the Forte forums on Paultan before u open your mouth and talk nonsense. Ive always said that i HAVE KOREAN MAKES IN MY FAMILY. Dont quote made up lies of yours. Speak the truth always.

Forte numbers are clearly increasing on the road??? Of course it is increasing! Even if u sell 1 car a month the numbers will increase. The issue is HOW MANY ARE SOLD. Forte sells about 500+ units a month. This has been the case for the past few months. If u ask me this is bad. Forte is a brand new model with good specs and a refreshed look and it only sells 500+? The Vios is an old model and only got facelifted and yet it sells 3300+ per month. The Civic is also 4 yrs old and yet it sells more units than the Forte.

Let me summarize my comments (again):

1) Korean makes have always proven to be of inferior quality since the good old days. The worldwide satisfaction survey proves this.
2) The newer models may have improved in quality but we will only know in about 2 yrs time when parts start breaking down and require replacement. Nobody can effectively say whether quality has or has not improved on these newer models.
3) The after sales service quality and standards have not changed and will not change as long its controlled by the local destributers/ service centres
4) The resale values will continue to be poor as long as the original sale figures are low
5) Cost of part replacement have and will still be relatively more expensive compared to Toyota & Honda
6) The Sonata has been poorly priced unlike the Forte and WILL lose out to the Camry & Accord especially since the new Camry is due next year while the Accord will be facelifted this year.
7) The Korean makes coming out now are getting better in terms of specs and styling
8) The Korean makes must be priced at least 25-35K lower than a corresponding Jap model in order to become competitive.


This is what i have been saying all this while either in this forum or in others. Nothing has changed. Its only ppl's interpretation of my words which has muddled things up sometimes. It could be due to the lack of English proficiency for some of them.

My only intention is to obtain competitive pricing for all cars. I want cheaper Toyota's and Honda's. I also want the Korean makes to improve on their quality, after sales service and resale values. I believe this is what everybody wants. But how can u expect to achieve this if we dont provide constructive critisisms? If everybody keeps prasing the new Korean makes just cause they have better specs and styling, the local distributers will just sit back and wait for things to happen as what is happening now.

Hope this finally clears things up for everyone.

Cheers!