Whats the use of being cheaper when its a Hyundai? For a Korean make to be competitive it must be at least 20K cheaper not just 9-11K. Whether u have better specs or not, for Malaysians what matter is the after sale service and resale value. Both of which makes the Korean makes a poor choice. The car itself it good but its the loacl dealers which are killing it. Im not a salesman but the Japanese are way ahead of the Koreans in terms of customer service. If uve owned both Toyota and a Korean make u will know the difference.

U pity the salesmen? Try walking into any Naza or Nasim showroom and see their attitude. They are so damn lazy and they'll just sit on their ass and wait for you to talk to them. This is their attitude and u wonder why the car doesnt sell? U try talking to a Toyota / Honda salesperson and u will see the difference immediately. Even now i know of Toyota salesmen who are willing to drive the Altis to your doorstep to allow u a test drive. U try walking into the Nasim showroom in TTDI,KL and ull see what i mean. Go check out the paultan forum and ull see all the other bad experiences ppl have had with these useless sales ppl.

If u ask me i say they deserve to get poor sales. They will not be able to survive in Toyota / Honda which is why they have been dumped in Hyundai, Kia & Peugeot.

If ure impressed with this CBU /CKD bullshit, u must either be a salesman or someone who doesnt have internet access. So wht if its a CBU? U mean to say that CBU units have lesser problems than a CKD? If this is so, then your thinking is surely old school. All this CBU bullshit is the type of salesman talk that the ppl at Naza and Nasim fill u with. But i tell u its no big difference. My wife has a 3yrd old Kia (CBU) and she was just told to change her shock absorbers. Even the Kia centre told her the shock absorbers are not designed to last more than 80-90K km. What kind of CBU is this? My old 7 yr Toyota Vios is still running strong with all original parts despite running for around 135K. She has also had endless problems with her dashboard rattling since Year 1. (mind you she is a careful driver).

So please spare me this crap about CBU and the relevence to pricing. This Sonata will not sell well in Malaysia because everyone is terrified of the after sales service standards. Nobody gives a damn about it being a CBU. the Sonata is overaly priced. U think ppl are gonna choose the Sonate over a Camry just because its 11K cheaper? Common man! If its 20K difference then maybe ppl may have 2nd thoughts but with 11K, its a no brainer.

Toyota / Honda make great CKD cars with minimal complaints so this argument about CBU is a waste of time and space. Its old school.

(p/s sorry if i sounded harsh but im just fed up with all this CBU talk when i know its just a sale gimmick).

Well i dont bash the cars itself that much. I bash the distributers and the service centres. They are the main culprits behind the poor sales of the Korean makes.

HEHE! No dont worry my friend. Im just someone who speaks his mind thats all. I think the new Korean makes in the past year or so are quite good cars with better specs but the local dealerships are really killing the brand here. I want some serious competition for Toyota and Honda as their prices are going up but the specs are remaining moderate. But the way the Koreans are going with their distribution network and pricing, i dont see any real competition for Toyota & Honda in the near future.

(p/s: Paultan killed the thread before the dare could end. But i guess Paul knew that i would have nailed that bugger well n good. He hasnt even showed up on the other ongoing threads in Paultan at the moment. I mean if he were genuinely able to prove me wrong, im sure he could have easily continued the dare on another thread. But his nick hasnt appeared since and i think he's still there but with a different nick thats all. All fun and games!)

U think all cars are built perfect? Even a Porsche has defects. When u rate quality u have to rate the NUMBER OF DEFECTS PER 100 UNITS. Thats how u rate the build quality. Not by just saying 1 Vios had to change the shock absorbers after 6 months (which i know to be untrue since u didnt provide any further details). Toyota has been rated as having the least problems per 100 vehicles in the world by JD Power & Associates. I shared this on a forum in Paultan as well. Honda is not known to have quality standards as high as Toyota for your info but still remains in the Top 10 for vehicle quality. When i complained about the Kia, i did so after MANY bad experiences. There are also makes from Hyundai in my family for your info and all of them have problems although Kia seems to have more issues.

I know alot more about cars then u think i do. I wouldnt be commenting on cars if i didnt have knowledge in the first place. I say my absorbers are good because of these factors:

1) Over bumps/deep dips in the road the car only bounces once (minimal bounce not excessive)
2) In emergency braking the car doesnt rock back & forth after coming to a full stop
3) During hard braking, the car doesnt sway from left to right. It remains straight and has an alligned stop.
4) The car does not nose dive under emergency braking
5) The car is stable at high speeds (120-130kmph) on the highway even on sharp bends

All this happens even with a full load of 3 adults sitting at the back. For your info, this is 1 of the parts i always get the Toyota SC to pay attention to during my regular maintenence in addition to the brake pads and disk brakes.

So now care to tell me if my shock absorbers are in good condition or otherwise?

Megat, i know ure a Hyundai salesman and i dont mean to spoil your rice bowl but the Sonata can win 1000 world awards and have the best specs but if the LOCAL AFTER SALES SERVICE is crap, it still WILL NOT SELL IN MALAYSIA. Malaysians pay thru their noses for cars (thanks to the Gov's protection of Proton) so for them the after sales service standards, maintenance costs & quality and resale value are more important than specs and physical beauty.

Look what happened to the Kia Forte. It had more publicity than the Sonata and it was more competitively priced with great specs. But yet after more than a year since its launch it still only sells about 500+ units per month. For the whole of 2010 only 2241 units were sold in comparison with 13,285 units of the Vios for the same period. Even the Camry sold 5277 units for that period.

The Korean makes are being whacked well and good by the Japs and this will continue. The reason is because of the after sales service. When u have low sales figures your resale value will suffer tremendously since u dont have the economies of scale.

The same fate awaits the Sonata. If Hyundai wanted the Sonate to compete with the Camry and Accord it should have priced it at least 20K cheaper and not 11K as it is now. Plus, its general market knowledge that the new Camry will be launched next year with the new Kia Optima to be launched as well.

Ok my mistake. Nov 2009. But the sales figures are accurate. Or do u want me to prove it to u as well?

Yes the Forte sales arent far from the Civic and Altis but u must remember that ure comparing a latest model with a much older one. So despite the Civic being launched in 2006, it still sells more units than the Forte. When the new Civic comes out in 2011 or 2012, the margin will be much wider.

u still cant understand eh? Did u remember me saying this:

When i complained about the Kia, i did so after MANY bad experiences. There are also makes from Hyundai in my family for your info and all of them have problems although Kia seems to have more issues.

Im not refering to just 1 issue unlike what you said. Even in the 2009 JD Power World Vehicle Dependability Survey, the Koreans manufacturers are not even in the top 10. Hyundai ranks No 11 while Kia ranks 20. Why do u think this is so?

Yes the Kia Forte is priced well but despite this the negative perception brought about by the local dealerships and service centres are bringing the car sales down. The Sonata is dead man's land. The pricing is too close to the Camry / Accord.

My dear friend, you cannot really compare with cars like Jaguar, Audi, atc as this is a survey based on complaints received from owners during the 1st 3 yrs of ownership. If a car production is very much lower and u have even a few complaints, your ratings will drop drastically. For this survey to be accurate u need to compare cars within a specific range e.g Toyota, GM, Honda, Hyundai & Nissan in 1 group since their production is the highest compared to other makes.

Again this is based on complaints raised by owners. Nothing is mentioned whether its major / minor problems. There are other sections in the survey which needs to be looked at to get an overall idea of the results. If u only have minor cosmetic problems, that wouldnt stop anybody from owning that car.

There was a big case a few months back in the US where a car owner sued Mercedes Benz for his malfunctioning brand new Merc . If im not mistaken he was paid a large sum of money in an out of court settlement. Does this mean Mercs are bad? Of course not.

No car is perfect. Every car will have issues. Ratings like this are meant to give us a general idea of the particular make. But as ive said before, the Koreans have improved alot and im sure they will improve further. But as long as their sales and service centres are controlled by these cronies, their sales will never be able to challenge the Japs for a long time.

Cheers!

First of all, its common knowledge that resale values for most cars drop the most in the first 4 yrs. So if u sell your car within that period chances are u will face heavy losses. Its only after that does the price stabilise a little. So u cannot really compare the resale values for a 7yr old car against a 3rd old car. U cant make such direct comparisons. If u wanna compare then compare against cars of the same age.

U must also remember that cars in the higher cc bracket lose their values faster than smaller cars simply due to the demand and supply equation. 2nd hand car values are directly connected to the initial sale figures. If u have poor sales, chances are your resale value will be poor. This is especially accurate for non national cars.

e,g Toyota Vios 1.5E purchased for RM74,700 in 2003 now sells for approx RM46,000. A drop of only 39% over 7 yrs.

Let him talk. Ive spoken to many of these new owners of Korean makes (my family was some of them). All of them say the same stuff in the beginning. Great car, cheap service, good specs, etc when they first get the car. When they start paying for their service & replacement of parts after 3-4 yrs then the story will change.

When the Spectra 1st came out, everybody was saying the same thing. Ppl called it the revolutionary car who will finally be able to compete with the Japs. Now after so many years, nobody wants to touch a 2nd hand Spectra after all the horror stories. Now everybody is saying the same thing about the Forte. But in the past 7 months since its launch, its sales figures are barely 18% of the Vios despite all its latest gadgets and specs and better looks.

My wife was 1 of those who condemned Toyota after getting her Kia 4 yrs ago. When she got her Kia she gave me the same crap. Toyota too expensive, ripping off customers, why spend so much, etc. And now after 4 yrs she cant wait to get rid of her Kia but sadly the resale value is so crap. Now she says 'Never Again'. Now she realises the difference between Toyota and the Korean makes.

In saying this i must say that the Forte is surely a class above the Spectra and the Vios for sure. It does have good specs and looks. Its also competitively priced. But sadly, its the local dealerships and service centres which are keeping its sales figures down. Sad but true.

Did i say the survey is NOT accurate? I said u need to compare cars within a RANGE of production. The overall production does matter since the chances of defects increase with higher production numbers. Note i said CHANCES.

If the 1.6L Hyundai Avante (High spec) is above 100K, that will kill the car for sure. Civic 1.8 is about RM114 only. Kia Forte 2.0 bout RM 94K.

Eh how does your gf know me?

I know what i know. Nothing more and nothing less.

U still dont get what im trying to say. Im NOT saying the survey is NOT accurate. Go check out the survey results. Its measured over 5-6 different categories. The OVERALL ranking is based on the results of INDIVIDUAL categories.

This survey is not based on INDEPENDENT ASSESSMENT of the problems / issues. It is based on OWNER REPORTED PROBLEMS not taking into account PRODUCTION NUMBERS.

So if u have manufacturers which sold 1000 units and 100 units had problems your percentage of problems would be 10%.

But if u had another manufacturer who produced 1500 units and 100 units had problems, your percentage of problems would be 6.7%.

So both have different percentages with the same number of units with problems. Which is why u cannot compare the survey results for a Porsche with a Toyota for instance since the production numbers have a vast difference.

I dont mean the survey results are inaccurate. It just needs to be viewed from a different perspective. If u want a real comparison then group the vehicles according to the production numbers which i suggested earlier.

Yes i already corrected my mistake on the launch date for the Forte much earlier.

Car manufacturers will always say that the max production is X amount. This is merely to ward off unwelcomed comments that the car isnt selling well. But just ask yourself this. If there were 2000 ppl queing up to buy the Forte every month, wouldnt it be perfectly natural to ramp up production to cater for the increased demand like what Perodua is currently doing for the Alza? Why after 7 months, there is no ramping up of production of the Forte? Simply because the demand does not warrant an increase. Please dont blindly believe statements released by Gov cronies.

Its the same excuse that Honda gave for the City. Since its launch and despite all its advanced features, its numbers have never come close to the Vios. So they released a statement saying that they were running at max capacity bla bla bla. But now with the same sales numbers , some sales outlets actually have ready stock of the City and no sign of the so called backlog which Honda claims.

Both of you are right. Quality was an issue with older versions of the Korean makes. Im not sure about the new models. But the biggest issue is the AFTER SALES SERVICE quality. This is the main cause as to why Korean makes do not sell well here.