Read here as posted earlier
http://www.www.igeorgetownpenang.com/opini...elines-in-place

The writer does not claim that BH will threaten the heritage status.
She is merely writing about BHs and the heritage status in the same article.
If you do not read it slowly you may get the impression or get confused that one is a threat to the other.
The heritage status was granted with the present BHs in existence!!!

She just wants peace and quiet and the fear of bird borne diseases removed from Georgetown.
She also wants DVS to guarantee and be accountable if ever any swiftlet borne diseases ever breaks out.
She's probably been fed lots of hogwash about swiftlet borne diseases.

I've got suggestions for her,
1)it's wiser she moved away from Georgetown to somewhere else more to her liking.
2)if the cost of her wishes runs into 100s of millions RM and thousands w/o the means of a livelihood and 100s of thousands of dead swiftlets...if she has the resources ...let her buy up all the Georgetown BHs and kill the swiftlets herself when she shut them down and still face those hungry and angry folks at her door.

And to the Png govt...wise up....FDIs will start to trickle in only if they see local entrepreneurs treated right!!!!
1 person's wants is never equivalent to the thousand's needs.

Maybe in addition to Png having the Lizard King... wants to add a swiftlets mass murderer...
Every animals rights and heritage NGOs ever listed on the net will get to hear of this mass murder.

As I did mentioned that the old and the wild can coexist and the BHs may bring in more tourists to the heritage area to see the swiftlets as it's also a part of our history. The swiftlets have been there for hundred year and only recently, the increment of swiftlets have risen to a profitable level; thanks to those enterprising owners of BHs or otherwise, most of the old building may have been torn down and replace with new modern structure.

Only with profit and wealth will the place be prosperous. As a owner of the old heritage building, what do one get in return??? then it shall be at the land owner advantages to have it tear down and transform it into a new hotel or something and then where will any heritage building remain after that? So far so good as to the advantage of the heritage buildings, the swiftlets like old buildings and that's why the heritage buildings remain till today or otherwise, most of the heritage buildings already torn down.

It all come back to dollars and cents.........even for the so called Ms. Rebecca, an outspoken council member of PHT as she run a Homestay Resthouse in that area, a very personal reason really, don't we all agree.

I, too have a reason like her but mine being that I wish that the swiftlets be saved from destruction which I believe is more logic than her and not so personal.

Ms. Rebecca manyak soalan oh.... Here are my guesses after today forum at Penang.

1. Existing BHs in Georgetown will stay. No new one allowed in the zone or near residential areas.
2. GAHP will be adopted by MPPP and MPSP. Regular checks will be carried out to ensure compliance.
3. WHI will continue to be busy with their heritage related activities such as heritage inventory management.
4. Enforcement starts January 2011. Who wants to bet???

Anyway, self interest seems to be dominating the whole swiftlet discussion amongst the forumers this morning.

i reckon that few associations in malaysia are in fact suggesting to the authority to allow existing farms to maintain and new one not allow.
This will bring even more trouble in foreseen futures.

Most association key personnel's becomes very arrogant and self centered after keepers appointed them to be their SERVANTS to represent them.

But slowly these so called association chairman, committee members then think that they are more intelligence and all other keepers are just brainless. So, they decides to keep all information to themselves and tackle the issue all by themselves. They will only shout out loud to their bosses (keepers) when they failed to convince the authorities and blame to the keepers that their bosses don't gives support to them.

This particular association that i mentioned is ASNI.

What utter drivel !

State your case, factually, and perhaps we can help clearing your obvious misconceptions.

Why all the associations are so short sighted and never consult their bosses before deciding what they going to say to the authorities? have you call for a meeting among the members and discussed and ask for opinions before you represent all other members to attend the meeting?

Without doing that you, how do you know if what you going to say is what the majority members think is right?

Why keep on advising the authorities that only existing farms are allowed and new farms not allowed?

Who gives you the right to stop others from enjoying the fruit of the god?

The whole forum from V1 till V3, you all talk about how this industry helped to feed many rural and urban families and how this industry helped to revive so many abandoned shops and idle properties. So, why you advising the authorities to stop doing that? How about others who is also waiting for the green light to also do the same? They also have abandone shops, they also have idle properties, they also have upper floor that are empty.

What next? they will start to envy all the existing keepers, and hate come next and they will becomes a member of anti swiftlet group.

Have you thought of that?

Arrogant, self centered.



This post has been edited by penpower: Aug 10 2010, 08:37 AM

From my point of view and all those who agree with me is that from the day you elect your office bearers, you have already decided to allow them to act and speak on your behalf. So, what ever action they take, you are also responsible for their action as you elected them and that's democracy; the majorities over the minorities. The elected ones shall be answerable to the BOD and to all members should they preformed not to the expectation of the majorities of members and the only only way is to remove them through an EGM. Like Association, Country are also rule by President and they are elected by the people to represent and act on belhalf of the people and if the people choose wrongly, then they have to suffer and we don't expect the President to seek the view of the people each time they encounter problem, making him a useless and ineffective President as so as all elected office bearers. Likewise, they will be answerable to the members for all action taken ......

BH representatives @ Penang or elsewhere, do your best, I would appeal to you to use your opportunities and your positions to get the most of what be obtain......cos, my future is in your hand.

If the country chooses the Fed Association as our representatives, then it is up to us to ensure that we get the correct representatives in thru voting. Then, you may ask that many of us aren't members and we are not represented and you got yourself to be blamed like you didn't registered as a voter. If wolves (I didn't mean that the present ones are wolves ) been elected as the government, who to be blamed but you for not taking a interest in the country.

Right or wrong, when we trust and leave our future (voting) to them, we already entrusted them that they will do their best and in the interest of us.

As a saying goes," you can never please all the people all the time and you can only please part of the people at one time" If you try to please all the people all the time, you end up pleasing no one. Just do what you think is the best and in the interest for the people at the time, place and at the situation and if you are please with what you have done, then you must be doing the right thing at the time,situation and place".

My own suggestions toward the industry have been forward to my Local Association and it's up to them to forward to the Fed Association and having done that, I will back them up for whatever decision they take as I did vote them in and they may not share all my views but whatever they have taken must be the opinions and interest of the majorities of the members concerned. Hope that they make wise decisions cos my head (BHs) is also with them.........Lastly, I do understand the ASNI as they have to consider opposition public opinions in the matter, too and nor only ours as we, the BH owners and friends are only a minorities in the country and the government need to consider the pros and cons and then how best to compromise and come to an agreement. Give me money and I still I won't want to be in their shoes to negotiate a solution best for all as any solution, it will certainly offended some of our BH owners and those against the industry no matter what the outcome be.

My opinions on the matter... and I believe that I may offended some here with my postings but then, please do forward your comments, too.

This post has been edited by West Wing: Aug 10 2010, 01:19 PM

Well said West Wing. You have described the democratic process which we all hopefully adhere to.

If the writer has a grievance then it should have been brought up with the respective association's committee. All members voted to have the committee represent the members.

Committee members are NOT paid and have regular jobs so cannot respond immediately, though they need constant reminders and a little prodding now and again.

If any party feels that they or anyone else can do better, then by all means get voted into the committee. An association is not a corporation and has no boss. Anyone capable can be voted in to become the leader.

The associations have to work within the framework of the law.

In Penang, No new BHs were allowed to be built after 2008 in the Georgetown area. Prior to that, permission had to be granted by town council before any BH building work was started. This is the therefore also the advice to all potential BH investors.

Regardless of the directive, many people did build their BHs and they therefore risk whatever action the local town council will take.

At no time did the local associations recommend to the local town council not to allow new BHs whether in urban or rural districts.

At the recently concluded Forum in Penang, virtually all the NGOs in attendance presented their case against BHs in Georgetown, there was no support from any of them. ASNI presented their case very well, refuted their allegations totally. In the end, all the NGOs agreed that it will be up to the Local Government to formulate the final local guidelines in implementing the 1GP.

There were a few un attached forumers who stood up to speak out against swiftlet ranching but there was no necessity for the caring swiftlet ranchers in attendance to say anything else. (if there was, it probably was not important enough for them to speak out).

If you are a member of ASNI, please direct your grievances to ASNI by phone or email. If you are not a member of any association and have a problem to resolve, please join an association of your own choice and have them assist you.

May i know which associations in malaysia that did not suggest to the authorities to only allowed existing shop farms to maintain? then i will join that association and buy an abandone shop and renovate it into a swiftlet sanctuary. I guess those allies with the federal association all did just that to protect their own shops and investments. Congrat, good work. What you all did benefitted the future generation and beyond.

I do not know what you've got against the associations as you have not been forthcoming with details.

Since you have the impression that many of the associations recommended to the govt. not to allow any more BHs in urban areas then perhaps you should provide some detailed proof.

Also, since you know the associations that you have accused of such an act, then by a simple process of elimination, you have the associations that did not.

Whatever the misunderstanding is, I'm sure there is an amiable solution.

BTW it is good to encourage MORE BHs in any area because more breeding sites produces more swiftlets and in turn make more nests. Restricting BHs will limit the number of swiftlets. Young birds will not necessarily return to their place of birth as they will look for better sites to nest.

As you singled out ASNI, I may perhaps be of assistance.

If you cannot provide details, I'm sorry this discussion will have to end here.

Farming was used from day one even from Veterinary Department and I objected to the term "Farm, farming and Farmer" as we never did farm swiftlets but allow them to use our buildings as their home and prefer to refer us as Swiftlets sanctuaries provider and harvesting the nests is part of the rewards from providing the swiftlets with a safe birds sanctuary.

The swiftlets fly in and out freely and naturally and farming of swiftlet is still illegal until the government accept the reclassification of our house swiftlets which infact is different from those cave types, many departments and NGO are using it against us. If the swiftlet feel threaten and leave, there is nothing we can do as we neither caged nor feed them....free to come and free to go......

Why we perfected our building to ensure that the birds do feel at home....

I do understand those who want to venture into the trade feel unhappy as the new GP may not allow them to start @ town and I too have all my BHs @ town and now, I have to venture to agriculture land to build my new BH as I know that all the local governments are against the Bhs @ town as they feel that the BHs will create too much problems for them. No matter how much persuasion or undertakings or assurance provided by us cannot change their mindset. Just talk to any YTP and he will tell you that if he has the choice, all BHs must be remove from the town.

So, are we going to tell the government to either allow all, now and in future or to remove all from town???? So, I believe that the best solution is to preserve the present ones and ask to new ones to do it @ agriculture land which I will try but still feel very uncomfortable and uneasy and would still prefer to do it in town if allowed to do so.........In agriculture, I feel so hopeless but I can't be selfish.................saving what we have and advising the newcomers to try it @ agriculture land maybe the only solution available. Remember when cornered to make a decision, it may not be in our favor. Oyes, the idea of allowing present BHs to remain is the that of the government to settle the disagreement between the two parites, I believe from what I heard and believe.

Kindly correct me if I am wrong and I hope that I am wrong and if the government allow new BHs @ town, I am going to sell off my agriculture land now and buy more @ town as I have the confidence in town but not @ agriculture land. Also, I feel much safer @ town and also for safer for my birds lest predators, wild and worst two legged ones.

Lucky, the birds provide good returns or otherwise we won't have our PM and his cabinet to back us up even knowing that even birdshit is safe. We, the bystanders sometime don't really understand what really happened behind the curtain and only see the play.........alot happened behind the curtain.

That's why I always emphasis that we should be friendly and respect our neighbors. Our BHs be cleaner and more pleasant than others and that, we should not at least disturb their family at night.....

My suggestions have been.
1. Have open air well type in town.
2. direct your tweeters toward the sky as then only Swiftllets and God will hear your call.
3. Shut off your sound system at night although it's better to have alittle sound for new BH but for the sake of the neighbor, better slower that to force out.
4. Listen to complaints by the neighbors and act or explain to them.

so far, how many of us really do it, I wonder??????

Again, I talk too much but only out of my love for the swiftlets. Thank you all for listening.

---

Added on August 11, 2010, 1:15 pmAs far as I know, none of those local swiftelts associations I know suggested to the majlis to only allow existing BHs but after knowing what maybe in the GP, told those new ones to be careful as the new GP may not allow them to do so. Also those building near residence areas are also reminded that they may lose their money if the majlis force them out.

If you have a BH @ town, then you should be a member of that area Association where your interest can be taken care off by the unity of all members there. I am a member for all local associations where my BHs are as I can contact the association for any latest news or development in the industry or the local government. It's like buying insurance or otherwise, you may lose everything without really knowing it. A little thing like when the Majlis is coming for an inspection for the lesen and what's the requirements and documentation; each majlis may have their own format and requirements which is better to know before it's too late.

The above are my sincere understanding and suggestion if you agree.

This post has been edited by West Wing: Aug 11 2010, 02:19 PM

OH!!!!!MY GOD!!!!!!


I beg your pardon, Mr WW, as to your statement alleging that the swiftlet farming, ranching or whatever you called it as ILLEGAL. This is very misleading. Swiftlet farming is never ILLEGAL as far as Malaysia Law is concerned. It can only be considered as ILLEGAL if it is like gambling, prostitution, drug pushing etc which are bad and specifically passed through in Parliament saying these activities are strictly prohibited, then only it is ILLEGAL. Nothing in law, up to now, saying it is prohibited. Therefore, please have better understanding of the term “ILLEGAL”. Swiftlet farming is never illegal whether in town or in rural. It is the ‘PROBLEMS’ produced by certain irresponsible BH owners that are infringing a certain local by-laws such as indiscriminately blasting of the sound disturbing the peace of the neighbourhood thus infringed the NUISANCE act and the substantially renovating or extending a 2 storey building into a 3 storey building altering the load of the structure or the façade without prior approval obtained from the local authority as required by building by-law, that are inviting complaints from the authorities and the neighbours against that particular building so happened to be a BH.


Operating a BH without a license and as long as it does not infringe any of the local by-laws is never ILLEGAL. It is not the BH owners who refused to apply for a license; it is that up to now, no Govt Authority is vested with the jurisdiction or power under the law to grant specific ‘SWIFTLET NEST OPERATING’ licence yet. There is no such term as ‘SWIFTLET NEST OPERATING’ defined under the Local Council Act. Actually, a real professional and capable head of the Local Council could have easily classified it under the PETTY TRADES AND COTTAGE INDUSTRIES in the existing by-law and solved all the problems. This is happening to those local councils that have already issued BH licenses years ago such as Penang, Perak, Pahang, Kelantan etc. If you were to scrutinize it carefully, it is a sub-section under the PETTY TRADES AND COTTAGE INDUSTRIES. But, sadly, due to the “MALAYSIA CIVIL SERVICE CULTURE”, that certain greedy Little Napoleons and several unscrupulous politicians in power view this so called new trade which so happened involved the majority operators/investors are Chinese, as a big, fat meat which they could exploit to get something out for their personal gains with hidden agenda by making matter difficult. With the certain Little Napoleons from the numerous departments eyeing to split this piece of cake abusing their power and conscience and discarded their professional etiquette, they are trying best to mislead some innocent politicians in power by creating many redundant, controversial and contradicting lengthy bureaucratic procedures and red tapes to complicate a simple and straight forward matter. Can you imagine, this “new” trade surfaced since 10 years ago and yet, our BOLEHLAND civil service is still trying to find more ways to slaughter pre-maturely this young god-sent golden goose to Malaysia? These Little Napoleons have forgotten that this, no doubt started by the Chinese at the initial stage, but eventually the fruit is going to be shared by all the Malaysians of multiethnic for a long time to come. It is just like the “KEW GARDEN RUBBER SEEDINGS” which started by the European pioneers in Malaya but today it is enjoyed by the whole Malaysia and its people.





10 years ago, Malaysia is second to Indonesia as world largest bird’s nest producing country. 5 years ago, we dropped to 3rd placing next to Thailand. Today, in spite of we having broken the 100,000 Bird's houses mark from a mere less than 1,000 since 10 years ago, we are already number 4 next to Vietnam. 2 years ago, many local pioneers ceased to build new BHs in Malaysia. They have gone to Vietnam to invest in BH. Beginning of this year, many of our experienced consultant friends/pioneers are being engaged by the Cambodia and Myamar Govt to help them to do up large scale BH projects. So, where will we be in another 5 years? I think our neighbouring countries should thank our BOLEHLAND LITTLE NAPOLEONS.


These Napoleons may have forgotten or not aware that this golden goose is not only sent to Malaysia but also all the countries in the tropical zone. Therefore, this is no exclusive or monopoly to Malaysia. If our Malaysia policy makers are not smart enough to quickly capitalizing on the advantage that we have over others to groom to maximise its potential to compete with our neighbours for the foreign revenue which Malaysia is in desperation and dying for now, then, for sure we are losing out sooner than we can anticipate. With other countries doubling up in the production, soon a saturation point will reach and later it becomes over-supplied and the demand will drop and there goes our much needed foreign revenue.


Can every one of you try to pen down what the real benefits and advantages that Malaysia and its people has gained from this industry since 10 years ago and what further benefits in the years to come? At least, this will help open up the eyes of those short-sighted and shake them up.


Could somebody be kind enough to have this posting pasted onto the facebooks of our PM, Ministers, MPs, Excos, YBs, heads of the various departments and all those you think they should be alerted of the true scenarios? I have no eyes to see anymore. God bless BOLEHLAND.

Mr Lucas could be from another planet or he is from the past as no one from the present generation think liked our forefathers who fought for nothing but rightous. No compromise, no self centered, and with no fear.

Unfortunately, you might be the only one left. Maybe Tengku Razaliegh is right that the present generation in power just let the future generation down. The future generation of swiftlet keepers and malaysians will have to clean up all the mess that the present swiftlet keepers left.

I think the present generation of forumer's here are more interested to talk about how good their swiftlet keeping skills and etc and etc.


i am delighted that some of you shared the same view in not suggesting to the authorities that only existing farms allowed to stay, but how many of you had done just that when you meeting with the authorities? very very few and none from this forum. when pushed by them, you all will say it, please at least allow the existing to stay in order to protect you own investment.

this is not a popular subtopic here, please go on and talk about how good your swiftlet skills are. tq.

undertand that the 1GP will be launched by the on 26/08 by the pm

Brave words.
What are your proposals to clean up the mess?

This is a special interest group forum for EBN, as such the talk is about EBN, we all try to avoid politics (though not successful always ).
Maybe if you have shared some specifics instead of general opinions you may be able to generate more discussion.

My friend, I never said that Having BHs @ town are illegal and I never did mentioned that we are illegal but infact we were encourage by the government many years ago but I never agree to the title or occupation as swiftlets farmers and farming not a farm as we just provide the swiftlets with a place to stay and we didn't farm the swiftlets nor do we feed them. They are free to come and go. A swiftlets hotel or sanctuary should be a better word to use and we are the provider of safe heaven for the swiftlets and nothing more.... and it's an industry or a trade, you may say........but certainly not farming as provided by me.

If Operating license is required to ensure that we comply with certain requirements and conditions should there be any and these, I believe we as reasonable people and do understand the situation need to compromised....we don't own the world but we do have a share.............and say. One thing that I don't agree is that the license fee is so high and who the authorities take us to be.....illegal immigrants or something else??????

I truly and strongly agreed with you that many problems and complaints are because of those uncooperative BH owners and we all have to bear the beating today.

This post has been edited by West Wing: Aug 12 2010, 04:42 PM

Hi, Lucas1, Bro West Wing,

All in all congratulations for comments. They are very useful to all swiftlet century, hotel, etc operators. I would like to classify it as swiftlets ranching as mentioned by the lady from veterinary department. But it should as mentioned by Lucas1 this industry should be classified under cottage industry too, the problem is that some operators are getting too big to be called cottage industry.

Anyway come 26 August, 2010, hope to see the light at the end of the tunnel, if the date mentioned is correct.

Just my 2cents.

Just drop in and check this thread and those who already had enough of food will never understand hunger.

One day, when these basterds ran out of food stocks they will appreciate food even a small birdnest .

Fark those martherfarkers anti-bird nest activist.

Penpower, why do we scare of speaking the truth and doing the right thing? Good parents always teach children never lie and fear no evil. Stand up against any evil force and be firm in legitimate principle. The only times evil triumphs are when all the good men are doing nothing or losing their balls. The evils should have more fear in doing bad thing. It takes only any ordinary man with balls to speak the truth. For those who support and suggest no more new BH be allowed after the set dateline if any, indicates and shows they are the most insincere, dishonest, greedy and selfish evils who are trying to practise monopoly and exclusive right to deprive others’ right from participating in the industry in this democratic and free enterprising spirit of Malaysia. It is just analogical to a certain existing coffee shop owners who are greedy and hooligan stopping other new coffee shops on the same street.

Associations’ main role is to unite people from the same trade or with the same common interest and to protect and defend ONLY their LEGITIMATE rights from being unlawfully deprived of or injured. It does not have the jurisdiction and power to deprive others of their legitimate rights under the constitution and in this democratic society. As such, the Swiftlet Associations can only appeal to the authorities not to make life difficult for its members but it CANNOT tell or even suggest to the authorities to make life difficult for others who are not their members.

Confucius said, DO NOT DO UNTO OTHERS WHAT YOU DO NOT WANT OTHERS DO UNTO YOU. So, for those who have the GREED in them, please stop being a hypocrite. It takes a fool to think all are fools. We know your GREED and HIDDEN AGENDA.

Some may wonder if I am contemplating to do up a new one in town after the so called suggested dateline if any. Let me tell you, I am one of the early birds and am already having a few very successful ones in town. The main reason I ventured into this trade was that these few properties were untenable and vacant for years with not only no revenue in return but were liabilities to me. These were surrounded by many new ones trying very hard to lure my swiftlets into their and yet not many succeed. Despite of this, all the new neighbouring BH owners became my personal friends as I offered them free bird’s shit and whatever possible assistance, advice or tip when they asked. I have no intention of doing any more new one but that does not give me the right to make life difficult for the fellow new comers. Another very important fact is we are not doing anything ILLEGAL or bad. We are actually doing good deed for this country. We are not only self-rescuing but we are also contributing and supporting in the prevention of the ever weakening economic of Malaysia from tumbling without the Govt given any aids or subsidy at all. We should be proud of ourselves of living up to be considered real patriotic Malaysians and the Malaysia Govt owes us a real big favour. Do you know why all the BH owners are so angry and so mad with the present Govts? It is because they are indeed truly very UNGRATEFUL.

To me, several of them are not fit and qualified to be our national leaders from the ways they complicated so many straight forward and simple policies.

selected lies, insinuations and fear mongering from an article on the Png Forum in the Sun paper....
One can easily surmise the author's leaning

1)Not only do the birds leave their dung all over the place;
2)If such bird farming is allowed in an urban or heritage area, what next? If someone opts to rear chickens, goats or pigs, would that also be allowed?
3)Many bird-nest operators are plying their trade in heritage buildings even though the Municipal Council of Penang Island forbids bird nesting in places gazetted as heritage structures or zones. (Any truth to this statement????)
4)Added to that is a contention that local stakeholders such as heritage groups, the state government and residents likely to be affected by the breeding of swiftlets in their neighbourhoods, were not consulted during the formulation of federal guidelines for the industry.

And instead, the Association of Swiftlet Nests Industry was consulted. Its representatives have been put in the technical committees to approve applications (for bird-nest farming), raising questions of conflict of interest.

Read more here.....
http://www.sun2surf.com/article.cfm?id=50579