Well said, cergau…….can’t blame you for being that rough and impulsive…..first time…….yes, for anybody with slight knowledge of the industry would straight away feel this is nonsensical and would wonder if the department concerned is really that sincere to help or to kill it slowly with certain hidden agenda or ulterior motive……….that only he or she knows, you know and I know, the god knows ……..and everybody knows except the Ministers and those inside the Tanjung Rambutan don’t know………and best is we were still hoping that this is rumours……


This evening really feeling very down as I received again few bad news from messages received from different reliable sources to confirm the earlier post of the Veterinar department’s proposal that it is the truth and nothing but the true………..After I posted the earlier message, my few buddies and I were still not believing and were saying that this is another hoax for most of the industry active players are having good feeling that the Veterinar dept has been known the most sincere, helpful and truly at the people’s service……..all this while……….for the past many many years………Many owners have very high regards and respect for them and spoke of them like Zoro guarding us from been abused by other evil depts………. But all these shattered with our spectacles all dropped and smashed……..as we are feeling of being betrayed……….



Now, can we not to cry over spilled milk which wouldn’t help in here? Let’s help ourselves by keeping a real cool head for we are going to use it to do logical analysis. So far, we read only a few replies with general remarks in sarcasm or in anger from the few regulars. That is not good enough to help. I am proposing here that can we, each and everyone individually try to analyse and figure out very sensibly and logically what would be the impacts, outcome and the consequences on the people, the industry, and the country, if the industry representatives really agree to the proposals? And what should all of us do to counter? What are the best solutions?


It seems there are hundreds to even thousands have been enjoying reading and to find out the latest situations and developments of the industry here in this forum. But not many have participated in posting. Can I ask every one of you to help in to contribute in a very small way by sharing here your idea, at least, once, please? The representatives do really need to listen to as many ideas and suggestions as possible before all of us shall decide jointly the best next course of action to fend for the industry and our lifelines. Remember, it is still not late. Please start shooting in………..

In my opinion;

Reviewing the whole hystorical of Malaysia, when ever Government steps into an industry business, normally it end up - THE END..which some call them Giant company - in Malaysia.

Reviewing the trend of these Goverment Bodies keep coming into this Industry and setting new barrier (which previously without them also doing well), which is all is directing to allow MONOPOLY by thier own people. But they always see the opposite grass is greener, with the same old method they doing, this industry will definetely go down with their HELPs and GUIDANCE.

They may know and think that the CHINA market is the biggest but they do not aware and know how to do the business in CHIna...haha, a lot MULTI big company also roll up in CHina and quote - China is a very strange and difficult market to understand.

Im seeing some CON-sultant is highlighting to new comers that how attractive the return and did not mentioned the real RISK (20-30% success rate excluding other barrier.) to them.

I think a lot opportunist is looking at this industry is very attractive and did not know the real RISK....

A common human behaviour, if they aware it is difficult and a lot of problems yet not much return compare on the investment, they may stay away from it..

This post has been edited by Ivan Ho: May 12 2010, 10:09 AM

What do you guys think of MKLand?
I cannot tolerate anymore as the similarity of work ethics in there is exactly the same scenario in the attitude of public service men of this country. if i were to use one ethnic or race , i will be judge as a racist . u know which race is that but my fellow modern and educated bumi friend has also share the same sentiment with us as he knew many of the govt servants are quite extremist and very racist as well. they never mingle with other race except themselves. As you see , the thorn of this problem is deeper than you may have think.

MKLAND is one farking company that has the same thing going on in the management until they lost all the goodmen who worked those days to develop damansara perdana. Those guys were gone or vanish in thin air and were replaced by people brought up in the govt before. Everybody who stay there know the problem and many buyer refuse to buy their property.

What i have learn there ?

1) They like to find fault and implement new laws which are consider petty to us modern thinkers but that negligence is fatal just like a sinking submarine with too many holes in the end.

2) Success people always study the future and put aside minor problem but they can't . they plot, they find ways to harrass you every minute .

3) They are emotional and revengeful.

4) They want it their way, it's theirs. You are just pendatang.

Actually i can see many of my colleagues gave up and tired battling to survive by each day. And they are long enough working in this kind of company that can never be good or excel.

---

Added on May 12, 2010, 9:38 am
VEterinary dept, talk cock and bulls.... show us the money before u talk. build us the facilities, infrastructure and security before u talk.
People investment for this country is a good sign for everyone, hope we can remove all these bastards in the next general election.


This post has been edited by hackwire: May 12 2010, 09:38 AM

Lucas 1,
If there were sufficient emoticons to express my feelings then, you would have seen your screen burning and curling and smoking on the edges.
I was in a unique Malaysian emotional state that we have proudly contributed to the enrichment of the English language - AMOK.

cool cool...... friend.

Cool down, anger just make you self suffer.....cool

time to have Kit Kat.

This article about captures hackwire's ranting on this matter.
A nation on the brink of failure

Discovered another gem of an expression....
"They are like a baby: An alimentary canal with a big appetite at one end and no sense of responsibility at the other"!
Enough to make my morning

Dear All,

I think we have diverted a bit from Lucas ideal...

Cool down . . .

Ivan Ho,
Not really...this is 'Scenario Setting'
Some stuff can't be dealt with in isolation, the overall scheme of things need to be accounted for an accurate reflection of the reality.
If you want to crawl out of a shit hole, one has to look around if there are any more such holes, or everyone in the country has one marked with their name on it. How deep each is so we know how much it can contain...get my drift? and lots more consideration before you start to analyse the shit.
My natural reaction is 'TAK NAK'...why would a sane person even want to consider how to get out of the shit in the eventuality that we do get into the shit. When the sane response should be 'GO AWAY WITH YOUR SHIT AND DONT COME NEAR'

It really goes against my grain to give credence to such utter mindless drivel by discussing them like there were GOD's own commandments.
I however will make exceptions since everyone is speechless from awe of such 'brilliance' propounded by the very dept that the Cabinet picked to lead this whole process...and rumoured to be sympathetic to our plight.

1 All premises will strictly adhere to GAHP recommendations
Here's a copy if you (as I) have not read this in detail.
http://www.jphpk.gov.my/swiftlets%20GAHP.pdf
I cant find it in the HQ site, this is from the Perak branch of DVS.
I can't find any form of versioning , so if you hv a copy in hand, you will need to compare to guess which is more current.
More laughable detailed guidelines are in here.
Enjoy.!!!
Please share the jokes from the doc on the forum for everyone's enjoyment after you hv read thru.

While I work on the more serious shit. [Watch for more Updates]
Still on the serious matter of serious shit.
http://zorro-zorro-unmasked.blogspot.com/2...rganic-pkr.html

Well, carry on the exchange of ideas. We have heard enough of cursing and swearing. We need now to listen to more practical analysis, suggestions and would be solutions. Please try to focus more specifically on the Vet’s proposals. Think majority of us now more eager to know what are the positive and negative impacts on, the consequences and would be scenarios of the industry if the industry forced to accept the offer?


But till now, we still don’t hear new ideas from new voices. Rather discouraging……..Could the new voices please speak up? Remember, all ideas are welcome. No idea is bad idea. We need to select the most suitable idea…….


Meanwhile, could somebody mind help to download and paste the GAHP here to convenience for viewing and discussion?

We are all focusing on Perhilitan as our only enemy but beware of our back side; our so called friendly departments that we must also be careful, too incase of back stepping. Infront, we can see and take defensive action but what about our back side where we are totally blind. Let's hope that there are no "Udang sebalek batu" .


Government's full support and relaxation of controls and conditions are necessary for any industry to be successful during the teething period, Imposing too stringent controls over the swiftlets Industry will only deter investors from investing in the industry and also those in the industry from expanding.

Although, some general controls, rules and regulations are deemed necessary for healthy growth of the industry but too much unnecessary controls, rules and regulations will scare away investors. Investors' friendly government policies over the industry is utmost priority so as to give interested investors confidence to invest or reinvest for the future of the industry.

Remembered that Great Caesar was murdered by the friendly Brutus and so be careful of who walking behind you too.....

Our ministers and all departments concerned should go to Korea to study how they are so successful in marketing their ginseng and its by-products locally or abroad. Do a write-up and tell us all how they do it so successfully so that all concerned makes no mistake about it in policy making! We've come a long way to this day in swiftlet farming without any assistance given from the Government. We show you the money and now it's time you show us a promising future we have to compete with Korea using our bird nest and our natioanal car in which you take great pride. We beat them in Badminton is one good example...

Regulatory Status of Codes of Practice
While the codes certainly serve an important adjunct to expert/testimony in the revice Animal Ordinance 1953, they should not and of themselves be used to determine compliance or the legality of a particular operation. Codes are recommended guidelines not required standards.

While I do not fully understand what the above paragraph (lifted frm the GAHP) means
I do have a few points I would like to share below

2.5 Identification and records
2.5.2 Useful records include: species, acquisition/disposition, incubation period, hatched date, flock/batch number, fertilized eggs acquired from, and owernership. The date and mode of any treatment or medication, breeding history, and bloodline records can be added on.
Essentially a log of all activities of each individual bird from the egg stage...Banyak bagus!

2.5.3 Permanent identification (microchip ring tag) of some of the pioneer breeders is needed for legal proof of ownership. These shall in the future be, at the National Animal Registrar Office, stationed at the Department of Veterinary Services Headquarters. Annual renewal of the licenses shall be deemed a must, which goes concurrently with the compulsory random health checks of the birds and premise by registered Veterinary authority, the Local Government and Health Ministry.
Wah!!! A unique ID for each bird. Getting better!!!
I am wondering if DVS Walet site is for registering each individual bird or BH??

3.1 Water and feed
3.1.3 Where environmental, seasonal, or stocking density effects do not allow daily insect feed requirements to be met, supplemented insects bolus feed can be offered.
3.1.4 Specific trace mineral requirements can be met with supplements. Exotic birds may have different requirements for minerals such as cooper, selenium or cobalt than those of conventional animals.
Do we weigh all the hatchlings each day like babies to chart proper growth?

3.3 Restrain
3.3.1 Restrain is required for procedures such as tagging and medication.
3.3.2 Use of currently available chemical immobilizing agents is legally restricted to licensed registered veterinarians an other authorized personnel.
3.3.3 Chemical immobilization should not be used where birds might injure or disorient themselves or become separated from human care, for example near open water, extensive woodland or steep slopes.
3.3.4 Following chemical immobilization, birds should be kept upright in a dark, confine, dry flat area and kept under observation until sufficient recovery has occurred to avoid risks of trauma, regurgitation or accidental injury. It is best to wrap anaesthetized birds with towels to prevent hypothermia.
3.3.5 Birds recovering from chemical immobilization behave strangely and may traumatised itself or be attacked by other objects.
So to attach the chip ring tag, you may need to hire specialist to immobilise the birds!!
I refuse to read on.

GAHP has been mentioned for at least a year when I first stumbled on this forum.
How did all these alien breeding recommendations have stayed on for so long in the GAHP?
Didnt all the sifus here have the presence of mind to challenge DVS then?
All your local assoc and the Feds have just been shown to be just as clueless with recent events.

[quote=Cergau,May 12 2010, 06:43 PM]
Regulatory Status of Codes of Practice
While the codes certainly serve an important adjunct to expert/testimony in the revice Animal Ordinance 1953, they should not and of themselves be used to determine compliance or the legality of a particular operation. Codes are recommended guidelines not required standards.

I am wondering if DVS Walet site is for registering each individual bird or BH??[/b][/color]


[/quot

1. Proof of ownership.......Hey! for goodness sake!!! we are taking free flying swiftlets that don't belong to you or me. They come and go as they please...how to proof of ownership and why need to do so.

2. Tagging ??? I don't see a reason for it at all and it cause stress and maybe death to the fast flying swiftlets if we are to tag the swiftlets. Has anyone done it and succeed? No because I truly believe that any additional weight to the swiftlets will cause the swiftlets to die as we understand that the swiftlets feed while flying and cannot afford to have the slightest error. Catching an insect while flying fast need precision flying and accurately but by adding weight on one leg will offset the equilibrium and control of their flight. Instate of the fly go into the mouth, it may hit the swiftlet in the eye and now, we will have one eyed swiftlet. Or the swiftlet may die of hunger.

3. I don't agree to any manual feeding of swiftlet by human being as human can cause contamination and disease to the swiftlets thru food and hand. Only if the swiftlet is injured, we may apply the method to treat the birds but the changes of surviving such injury is rather small. I rather let GOD decide if the injured bird is going to survive or not by placing the swiftlet in to my Bh irrespective of where I found the injured swiftlet. From this method, I have saved many swiftlets from have fallen to the ground from neighbouring BH during their maiden flight by placing the fallen swiftlets into my BH and the swiftlets do survive.

I have been successful in saving fallen chicks that fell to the floor accidentally by putting the chicks back into the nests. How it is done is to ensure that the fallen chick be put back into the same nest by observing the size of the remaining chick in the nest. Just remember that AF swiftlet produce 2 chicks and if you care enough for the fallen chick, you will help it to find it's nest.

This post has been edited by West Wing: May 12 2010, 08:40 PM

Let's be fair, most "Sifus" don't read English or Malay. At that time nobody expected to have to deal with DVS, after all DVS seemed to be on our side of the battle.

All concentration was on surviving the onslaught of the local councils, from having our BHs being pulled down.

The Seminars organised by DVS never explained that we had to follow the GAHP, it was only a recommendation, we just had to attend the seminars and obtain a cert. to enable us to be considered for a license issued by the local council. On top of that it was free, incl. refreshments and lunch.

We always thought that DVS was there to help us. We were not in the position to question DVS when they were helping us!

I don't know about the attendance of the Associations but ASNI did not exist then. Most of those I know who attended were also new to swiftlet ranching, as I was and were absolutely clueless in this aspect. We just went and listened because we had to. Went home chucked the booklet away because it was too difficult to understand what was inside and waited for the cert. to arrive.

DVS never made any demands so most people left it as that.

I been wondering about licensing in malaysia. When comes to this point where so much money is in this industry , all depts in the govt will spent countless of meetings in the boardroom just to create unjustifiable rulings and red tapes regardless of their experience . One guy will sit on his PC and starts to creates all the Boxes of the Flow Chart probably with the latest Powerpoint .

Than Puan XXX feels there's a need to improve the income for the dept by again drafting out new rules and license so that their men have task to work on from 11am - 3pm.

8am - 9am (breakfast)
9am - 10am (read mail and memo)
10am - 11am (break again before depart)

11am - 1pm (ronda-ronda and finding BH)

1pm - 2pm (lunch)
2pm - 3pm ( head home)
3pm - 4pm ( report and go home)

And then Monday - Friday is (Illegal Day) , Sat - Sunday is (Legal Day) Office tutup.

This thing go on and on every day.

If we look at the Pirated DVD and disc in Summit Shopping Center or in any shoplot, do u see the licensing of original DVD is necessary even if there are Copyrights law? And how about all the bootleg stuff in Petaling Street or Chinatown? I mean does the govt time place on new laws on swiftlet is so relevant as compare to the billion of dollars lost , job lost to the underworld kingpin in the pirated and bootleg product. And with the corruption practice in the enforcement and govt dept for not able to close down all these shops and supporting the underworld business is significant as compare to the swiftlet industry? They can't even solve the problem in the other industry and now they want to enforce absurd laws .

Bodoh punya gomen!

This post has been edited by hackwire: May 13 2010, 09:15 AM

Thanks Cergau for your sharing..

But on another way of thinking, this SHIT is big although is not ours....the STINK smell still can reach us some how.....

just a thought....Cheers

My purpose of providing the zorro hyperlink was there is a moral to the article.
When you see shit you dun go probing, checking, smelling and tasting it and then eventually step OVER it, BUT still leaving it in place.
Shovel it away.
That was the thrust of my long rant......

To yr comment...
If BIG SHIT, you have to adhere to DOE guideline to dispose.
Small shit, shovel and flush away.
No shit, no smell

Have you watched this old movie 'The Gods Must be Crazy' and the Coke bottle?
They have never seen a Coke bottle.
But you have seen and smelt shit. So you recognise shit.
As such you need not act like those tribal folks and carry the shit around wondering what to do with it.
The Coke bottle was meant to be discarded. (Garbage disposal)
Shit is meant to be flushed away. (Sewage disposal)

Or if you are so inclined to deal with babies you can choose to toilet train them!

This post has been edited by Cergau: May 13 2010, 01:23 PM

So, you did saw the movie, and I thought that I was the only crazy guy watching the movie.........

I was OK until I watched that crazy movie and now, I think I am really crazy.....hahahaha

I didnt,...... I read about it.